Half season review with Chris Honor and Gregor MacGregor

[Waconda]

11 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Yep i was pleased to hear some forceful opinion, especially about  our full backs,  a ball winning or  creative midfielder,  and our  seemingly urgent need to sell any player who shows a modicum of ability, to  the first club that bids for them?   i did think he was a little over dramatic regarding FFP?    There are a host of other clubs in a far worse position than us?   And finally his strong defence of our benefactor Steve L.  It   is beyond my comprehension, when i read some of the comments regarding Steve on here,  because as RL states, without him we would probably be in the same position as the Gas?  OK he has made a few mistakes with recruitment, but the infa -structure  that he has put in place, the training centre, stadium etc are all down to him, and his legacy..........which idiots seem to ignore?    Without SL......we would be truly screwed!  Ha!   Merry Xmas 

 seemingly urgent need to sell any player who shows a modicum of ability, 

The team was doing well, we had players improving individually within that, we were getting national TV coverage, players had exit clauses in contracts etc.

We were being offered big money for our players who wanted to further their careers. You can't/shouldn't try to force players to stay in that scenario.

It brought in tens of millions of transfer fees, that can be argued strongly was then wasted .

Not sure we were "actively" trying to cash in on our players but more a result of our on field performances, results and coaching success of the time.

Edited December 24, 2021 by VT05763

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Yep i was pleased to hear some forceful opinion, especially about  our full backs,  a ball winning or  creative midfielder,  and our  seemingly urgent need to sell any player who shows a modicum of ability, to  the first club that bids for them?   i did think he was a little over dramatic regarding FFP?    There are a host of other clubs in a far worse position than us?   And finally his strong defence of our benefactor Steve L.  It   is beyond my comprehension, when i read some of the comments regarding Steve on here,  because as RL states, without him we would probably be in the same position as the Gas?  OK he has made a few mistakes with recruitment, but the infa -structure  that he has put in place, the training centre, stadium etc are all down to him, and his legacy..........which idiots seem to ignore?    Without SL......we would be truly screwed!  Ha!   Merry Xmas 

Think a couple of comments are a bit out of touch, e.g. we shouldn’t be selling to Brighton.

But the fact that he said he didn’t like Mark Ashton, and qualified it by saying he didn’t think he did a good job, makes me overlook anything else

[Numero Uno]

5 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Yep i was pleased to hear some forceful opinion, especially about  our full backs,  a ball winning or  creative midfielder,  and our  seemingly urgent need to sell any player who shows a modicum of ability, to  the first club that bids for them?   i did think he was a little over dramatic regarding FFP?    There are a host of other clubs in a far worse position than us?   And finally his strong defence of our benefactor Steve L.  It   is beyond my comprehension, when i read some of the comments regarding Steve on here,  because as RL states, without him we would probably be in the same position as the Gas?  OK he has made a few mistakes with recruitment, but the infa -structure  that he has put in place, the training centre, stadium etc are all down to him, and his legacy..........which idiots seem to ignore?    Without SL......we would be truly screwed!  Ha!   Merry Xmas 

Didn't realise you needed a billionaire benefactor to achieve 17th-20th place in the Championship. Presumably clubs like Brentford, Brighton, Cardiff, Huddersfield, Barnsley, Blackpool, Swansea and Burnley all have Trillionaire owners hence their appearance in the Premier League? I would suggest that without Steve Lansdown we would be nearer Rotherham than the Gas......a lot nearer and lets be fair, as it stands now, we aren't exactly miles ahead of Rotherham on the pitch. Nobody suggests that Steve's heart isn't in the right place or that it isn't very generous of him to put the money up front but supporters have every right to critically analyse the decision making of a man who is prepared to say it's HIS money, HIS club.

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Think a couple of comments are a bit out of touch, e.g. we shouldn’t be selling to Brighton.

But the fact that he said he didn’t like Mark Ashton, and qualified it by saying he didn’t think he did a good job, makes me overlook anything else

The man has ruined this football club to the extent it will literally take years to rectify the mess we are in and only one person didn't see it.................the most important person who has "made a few mistakes here and there" but don't you dare point them out..

[REDOXO]

Owers was excellent. Tells it like it is, has an opinion and is clearly a supporter. I also think in his various roles he has some clue as to what is going on internally, including dad to one of our payers. 
 

The biggest point he made from my perspective was ‘are Scott and Benerous even going to be here after the transfer window’ It is clear they are saleable assets to a club like ours that now needs to sell more than ever into a very poor market to cover costs. Also the comments about these two being ahead of Massengo who maybe 20 but has over 70 games under his belt and as such is an experienced player has resonance to me at least. 
 

I hope we don’t have to sell any of them but my head tells me we will if a decent deal (whatever that is these days) can be done. 
 

Outiside of this how many saleable assets do we have? Possibly Bentley and Kalas? 
 

Ipswich watch out 

[maxjak]

8 hours ago, VT05763 said:

 seemingly urgent need to sell any player who shows a modicum of ability, 

The team was doing well, we had players improving individually within that, we were getting national TV coverage, players had exit clauses in contracts etc.

We were being offered big money for our players who wanted to further their careers. You can't/shouldn't try to force players to stay in that scenario.

It brought in tens of millions of transfer fees, that can be argued strongly was then wasted .

Not sure we were "actively" trying to cash in on our players but more a result of our on field performances, results and coaching success of the time.

Sorry...completely disagree.  But good luck with your opinion.........Merry Xmas

[maxjak]

8 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Didn't realise you needed a billionaire benefactor to achieve 17th-20th place in the Championship. Presumably clubs like Brentford, Brighton, Cardiff, Huddersfield, Barnsley, Blackpool, Swansea and Burnley all have Trillionaire owners hence their appearance in the Premier League? I would suggest that without Steve Lansdown we would be nearer Rotherham than the Gas......a lot nearer and lets be fair, as it stands now, we aren't exactly miles ahead of Rotherham on the pitch. Nobody suggests that Steve's heart isn't in the right place or that it isn't very generous of him to put the money up front but supporters have every right to critically analyse the decision making of a man who is prepared to say it's HIS money, HIS club.

Yeah next time you've a spare 200 million........be sure to use it wisely, your view is simplistic IMHO. There are just so many instances and circumstances over the years where a slightly wrong decision or an ill timed turn could have made such a difference.  Of course supporters are well within their rights to criticise, but some of the extreme and ridiculous comments on here,   on occassion are ill educated  , or just  plain dumb.  At the very least SL should be shown some respect for what he has done for Bristol City?

[Engvall’s Splinter]

Listened to the Gregor one - where you asked him for his current 11 and then pretty much named it for him. Apart from that, thought it was decent. 

[Garland-sweden]

Think its clear that we not good enough for a couple of years. We now pay more in wages then season 17-18. At that time we had better players and team. A team is built from defence as said in the Pod, we are conceding goals and its get No better when Baker is out. Vyner and Atkinson, realy hope they will play better soon. Williams is sure missing, frustrating for him. The positive is that COD and Semenyo gives us something in forward play.  Think we will avoid relegation but with more injuried players we can be in a really bad run. The players seems stressed when getting the ball, think its about confidence. Time to play Wells from start and give Martin a rest.

[Davefevs]

Chris Honor nails it…(paraphrased)

…”we should’ve made more of an effort to keep the likes of Korey Smith and Marlon Pack”

Ultimately we have a worse squad that costs more.  The wages from 17/18 weren’t that much lower than now, but shows that we’ve paid too much for average players.

[Waconda]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Chris Honor nails it…(paraphrased)

…”we should’ve made more of an effort to keep the likes of Korey Smith and Marlon Pack”

Ultimately we have a worse squad that costs more.  The wages from 17/18 weren’t that much lower than now, but shows that we’ve paid too much for average players.

Didn't Pack triple his wages going to Cardiff ?

Edited December 26, 2021 by VT05763

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, VT05763 said:

Didn't Pack triple his wages going to Cardiff ?

Maybe, certainly would’ve been made worth his while.  A sale based on the transfer fee, not the player angling for it. Surely we could’ve offered him something to avoid the need to then spend more than half of it on Nagy (probably more wages than Pack).  We were too keen to “trade”.  Why?  I understand the likes of Webster and Kelly into the PL, but not to teams in the Champ.

[steviestevieneville]

I haven’t listened to the podcast but reading some of the posts are interesting. I don’t agree with  some that think we’ll be looking to sell Scott or Benorous (spelling ) they’re getting regular minutes in the championship which is invaluable to their growth as players . Plus it’s a false economy . We’d get only a small % of what they’re worth due to prices being driven down with a covid environment . 

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

I haven’t listened to the podcast but reading some of the posts are interesting. I don’t agree with  some that think we’ll be looking to sell Scott or Benorous (spelling ) they’re getting regular minutes in the championship which is invaluable to their growth as players . Plus it’s a false economy . We’d get only a small % of what they’re worth due to prices being driven down with a covid environment . 

Agree….would have to be a really stupid bid for Scott….and I don’t think that’ll happen.

[steviestevieneville]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Agree….would have to be a really stupid bid for Scott….and I don’t think that’ll happen.

Yeah. Just can’t see it. Potential alone it would have to be north of £10m . He’s just signed a new contract as well. He’s not going to get into a prem side yet & would only be loaned back out to a championship side if he did. It’s inevitable it’ll happen one day but that has to be on our terms 

[Waconda]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Maybe, certainly would’ve been made worth his while.  A sale based on the transfer fee, not the player angling for it. Surely we could’ve offered him something to avoid the need to then spend more than half of it on Nagy (probably more wages than Pack).  We were too keen to “trade”.  Why?  I understand the likes of Webster and Kelly into the PL, but not to teams in the Champ.

Many clubs in the Championship pay higher wages than us.

Player gets offered to treble his wages (?) on a decent length contract relatively close by = no brainer, sadly.

Edited December 26, 2021 by VT05763

[Mendip City]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Chris Honor nails it…(paraphrased)

…”we should’ve made more of an effort to keep the likes of Korey Smith and Marlon Pack”

Ultimately we have a worse squad that costs more.  The wages from 17/18 weren’t that much lower than now, but shows that we’ve paid too much for average players.

At least we (Steve Lansdown) have learned from past mistakes… remember how much worse the relegation squad was than the GJ playoff final one? Presumably at far higher cost. GJ himself was talking about “only bringing in players to improve on what we have” (manager cliche #732) but bought a succession of like-for-like mediocrity.  We’ve done it again, dismantled a decent squad with spirit and spent the dosh on a right old mess! 
We go again!!!!! 

[Davefevs]

13 hours ago, VT05763 said:

Many clubs in the Championship pay higher wages than us.

Player gets offered to treble his wages (?) on a decent length contract relatively close by = no brainer, sadly.

Why didn’t we offer him a better deal?  That’s the point!  

He didn’t want to leave, he was surprised we accepted Cardiff’s offer. 

[GrahamC]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Why didn’t we offer him a better deal?  That’s the point!  

He didn’t want to leave, he was surprised we accepted Cardiff’s offer. 

This isn’t hindsight, Pack was integral to the way we played yet we seemed to change our mind on him one game (Leeds at home) into the season & rush out & buy HNM & Nagy as the window closed.

This was a truly terrible piece of business, on a par with bringing in Palmer & then sending Paterson out on loan.

Korey Smith comes more in the hindsight category (Owers is spot on though that Ashton handled his departure appallingly) Korey had missed a lot of the previous 2 seasons injured & hasn’t actually started that many at Swansea either. 
If we had brought in a Matty James type then I wouldn’t have had any issues with it.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

This isn’t hindsight, Pack was integral to the way we played yet we seemed to change our mind on him one game (Leeds at home) into the season & rush out & buy HNM & Nagy as the window closed.

This was a truly terrible piece of business, on a par with bringing in Palmer & then sending Paterson out on loan.

Korey Smith comes more in the hindsight category (Owers is spot on though that Ashton handled his departure appallingly) Korey had missed a lot of the previous 2 seasons injured & hasn’t actually started that many at Swansea either. 
If we had brought in a Matty James type then I wouldn’t have had any issues with it.

100% agreed.

(listening to Owers pod now)

[petehinton]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Why didn’t we offer him a better deal?  That’s the point!  

He didn’t want to leave, he was surprised we accepted Cardiff’s offer. 

LJ was pleading for him not to go & beside himself it was ever contemplated. MA told Pack the wages on offer would be a now or never type opportunity. Says it all really…

[Davefevs]

40 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Pack fee was rumoured to be 4 million. If true then that is a fantastic fee.

Yep, true.  Cheltenham netted almost £800k as part of their 20% sell-on.

We spent more than the £3.2m (net) on Nagy and his succession-plan Massengo, let alone wages.  In my head we should’ve lobbed Pack some more wages and still got Massengo as his heir.  Said something to that effect at the time, even though Nagy first 1.5 games looked very encouraging.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, petehinton said:

LJ was pleading for him not to go & beside himself it was ever contemplated. MA told Pack the wages on offer would be a now or never type opportunity. Says it all really…

That I do not doubt.  LJ should’ve gone over his head to SL…and if SL backed MA, then LJ should’ve resigned.

 

I never quite understood the alleged Warnock quotes “I’ll have Reid and Pack” because they were a year apart

Edited December 27, 2021 by Davefevs

[Mendip City]

32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That I do not doubt.  LJ should’ve gone over his head to SL…and if SL backed MA, then LJ should’ve resigned.

 

I never quite understood the alleged Warnock quotes “I’ll have Reid and Pack” because they were a year apart

Not doubting this but LJ never did himself any favours with the “having final say on all transfers” tripe.  He was too often stuck between “corporate Lee” and “head coach Lee”.  Maybe the corporate people (person) swayed his footballing judgement too often? 
 

Actually, it is people not person. For all the criticism of MA, someone employed him, trusted him and was ultimately guilty of falling asleep at the wheel.  

[ciderwithtommy]

For me the Ashton era will be defined by how keen we were to “trade”. You have to sell to the prem is a phrase I’ve heard a few times, and I believe there is an element of truth to it. However do we truly believe other teams in our league haven’t had prem interest in their players but held onto them?  If we had only been better in recruiting the need to sell so heavily wouldn’t have been there. Selling a Webster like deal should’ve put us in a position where all other talent was ring fenced for at Least a year, but no we bought terribly and then had to sell more assets. 
 

it’s like you own a house, it’s a nice house, you are happy living in it. If you want to keep Living there, and can afford to do so, happy days. But Ashton was the estate agent who puts your house on right move and courts offers, you then think “might be a good idea to sell”. But the whole process is kinda unnecessary, and it leaves you needing a new house in the same area. 
 

the question I have always had, why did MA want to trade so much? Only 2 things I can think, 1 it raised his own profile, and 2 he benefitted from player sales in one way or other…

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said:

the question I have always had, why did MA want to trade so much? Only 2 things I can think, 1 it raised his own profile, and 2 he benefitted from player sales in one way or other…

Typically MA selling one player meant opportunities to buy three or four players.  He commented on every signing….ego!!!

Agents must’ve loved MA / Bristol City.

https://fanbanter.co.uk/championship-clubs-ranked-by-their-agent-fees/

https://fanbanter.co.uk/how-much-your-club-spent-on-agent-fees-from-2020-to-2021/

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Davefevs

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I thought we were fine after that till the end of the January window.

After the opening day loss to Leeds we only lost 2 more games up till December 10th.

Then a bad run followed by a good run meant we were 6th at the end of January when Brownhill was sold.

After the Afobe injury we flattered to deceive a bit, but we certainly got results. We did have a couple of nice wins versus Huddersfield (h), Fulham (a) where we played well, but the 4 game win streak in January was turgid for large chunks of each game, the 4141 did make us solid though (and then LJ moved away from it…didn’t he always!).  It hid the real probs imho…and they manifested as the weeks wore on.  We didn’t achieve a reset due to the covid break, when we should’ve taken advantage.  We had 50 points from 30 games, we ended up with 63 from 46, Holden got 8 from his 5 (LJ therefore 55 from 41).

I think that’s the thing I eluded to in another thread or earlier, it’s always a bit too easy to look where we were in the league after a good run, I.e. it’s always gonna look favourable.  We looked fine to the naked eye, I.e. the league table, but we were struggling imho in a lot of games…some how the ball got kept out of our net.

Don’t get me wrong, we weren’t crap, but we were a tough watch for a fair bit of that season.  I can live with that, I did live with the results, but I feared a downturn….I think it could’ve come at any point that season.  18/19 was the tipping point, or more accurately summer 2019 was….Webster and Pack going (and Kelly), but we didn’t really improve….Kalas and Dasilva were here the season before (and we weren’t good enough then).  We made £30m(ish) on those players but we didn’t improve the team (let alone the squad)!!  How the **** does that happen?  I never saw the plan!

Aaaarghhhhhh!!!

 

[Waconda]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Why didn’t we offer him a better deal?  That’s the point!  

He didn’t want to leave, he was surprised we accepted Cardiff’s offer. 

Knock on affect of trebling a players wages and contract length to match a rival clubs offer and the future financial implications of doing so I would think.

[Norn Iron]

Another great thread that has totally gone off track from the op! I'm about to continue with the off track bit and suggest that the trouble for BCFC on the pitch started when the players went to the races. The photo of Luke Ayling laughing had it gone to court, would have been thrown out. Laughing at what?

Have we ever been told the truth as to why Luke left for Leeds? What a bargain they got and look at us now.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Norn Iron said:

Another great thread that has totally gone off track from the op! I'm about to continue with the off track bit and suggest that the trouble for BCFC on the pitch started when the players went to the races. The photo of Luke Ayling laughing had it gone to court, would have been thrown out. Laughing at what?

Have we ever been told the truth as to why Luke left for Leeds? What a bargain they got and look at us now.

LJ signed Adam Matthews on loan (again) and said to LA he wouldn’t be guaranteed first choice.

Whether Matthews was signed with a view from above to moving LA on I’ve not idea.  It was a shit footballing decision imho.