City release accounts - Ouch!

[Oh Louie louie]

With a nickname like invisible jon, we can rely on him, to show his face, and tell us the score.

[pongo88]

16 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Simpson, Cundy, King, O'Dowda, Martin (year option)

I expect Simpson and King to be let go. So saving a fair bit there I reckon.

I think Pearson said recently that O'Dowda will earn himself a new deal if he stays fit.

I actually think that might not matter as O'Dowda might himself choose to move on. Just a guess.

Cundy hopefully gets his chance and proves himself enough to earn a new deal.

Martin I reckon has his year option triggered. However much fans will hate it.

I imagine we will sell Kalas in the next 2 windows.

EDIT. Misread your post. Thought I read players contracts expiring this summer

I’m with you on Cundy. Last season he was playing well for Gillingham so if Atkinson can step up from League one, hopefully, so can he. He just needs to get fit to show Pearson what he can do. His salary must be minuscule compared to some of the big earners 

[Merrick's Marvels]

Whether we can stay up this season is open to debate, although the odds are in our favour.

But unless more clubs get walloped with points deductions - and not us! - next season looks bleak to me. 

A business in this much trouble often requires a fire sale and that seems to be where we are - so who knows how long we can keep hold of Kalas, Scott, Benarous, Bentley, Massengo. As for the high-earners we really want rid of, doubtless they'll still be here, a millstone round our neck. 

Talk about up shit creek without a paddle. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Merrick's Marvels

[Hxj]

A couple of quick points - 

Pay - although up slightly it would also cover -

• LJ's pay from July to 2020 to September 2020 and a full settlement of his contract ending in June 2023.
• DH's pay from February 2021 to April 2021 and a full settlement of his rolling 12 month contract.
• Potential end of contract bonuses for the players leaving in the summer.

Amortisation

• Unamortised player costs left at 31 May 2021 £14 million

Covid

• Turnover down by around £11.5 million on 2020, or £15 million down on 2019.

[Bristol Rob]

One thing I understand, but equally don't understand is why City were very much in favour of FFP and not wanting to follow Stoke down the route of allowing owners to throw money at their clubs.

[Merrick's Marvels]

8 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I think it’s our duty to drink more beer. 

If it makes the football bearable, I'm game! 

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Accounts were signed off last Monday.

I had mixed views on whether we’d announce pre-January window.

1. Manage fans expectations versus

2. Show your hand early when negotiating with clubs you want to buy from, I.e. we’ve got no money, versys

3. Show your hand early to clubs looking to pillage our players

Not sure how this will play out Ralph.

Under 3, I guess the youngsters need to be on long contracts to give us a decent bargaining position.

 

[O'Garlandinho]

7 minutes ago, Hxj said:

A couple of quick points - 

Pay - although up slightly it would also cover -

• LJ's pay from July to 2020 to September 2020 and a full settlement of his contract ending in June 2023.
• DH's pay from February 2021 to April 2021 and a full settlement of his rolling 12 month contract.
• Potential end of contract bonuses for the players leaving in the summer.

Amortisation

• Unamortised player costs left at 31 May 2021 £14 million

Covid

• Turnover down by around £11.5 million on 2020, or £15 million down on 2019.

I thought football manager contracts these days = salary paid for leavers until they get a new job? Or paid until end of contract if they don’t get a new job, obviously.

Also, i believe a full year of Wells compared to prior year is an additional circa £1m in wage bill.

 

[The Bard]

9 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Whether we can stay up this season is open to debate, although the odds are in our favour.

But unless more clubs get walloped with points deductions - and not us! - next season looks bleak to me. 

A business in this much trouble often requires a fire sale and that seems to be where we are - so who knows how long we can keep hold of Kalas, Scott, Benarous, Bentley, Massengo. As for the high-earners we really want rid of, doubtless they'll still be here, a millstone round our neck. 

Talk about up shit creek without a paddle. 

I would be keeping Kalas out of that lot but be willing to sell the others at the right price. 

Just hope Scott keeps improving. Maybe gets pushed up the the under 21s squad and gets more exposure nationally.  He's the one with the high ceiling. 

 

[Fuber]

2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Glad to have Lansdown, but these figures are by and large his fault. 

We had a really trim quality squad that needed two or three additions. Then he let Johnson and Ashton take him to the cleaners and treble the wage bill. This was always coming. 

Ultimately this 1000%.

No matter how free Ashton and LJ were with respect to wage spending. The buck to reign them in was with the Chairman, who is SL's own son, who clearly took his eye off the ball and let MA run roughshod over the operation.

The issue is, and it's been the same across the last 20 years, the sheer lack of competent direction and appointments from the top down.

You can have all the money in the world. But if it leaves the club unsustainable, in debt, and/or fails. It's not the owner who picks up the eventual bill in the end. It's the fans.

2 hours ago, VT05763 said:

Many will be far worse.

I'm actually doubtful. Reading and a handful of others, possibly, but I don't think many clubs were near our sheer level of ineptitude regarding wages to turnover.

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 minute ago, The Bard said:

I would be keeping Kalas out of that lot but be willing to sell the others at the right price. 

Just hope Scott keeps improving. Maybe gets pushed up the the under 21s squad and gets more exposure nationally.  He's the one with the high ceiling. 

 

Agree in principle but suspect we're in such a pickle that beggars can't be choosers. 

Perhaps we'll need to cash in the options we hold on Kelly, Webster, Brownhill too? 

[Hampshire reds]

with the accounts been made public today how close are we to a points deduction.

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, Taz said:

But if nobody is willing and/or able to take them off our hands, what are we supposed to do?

As my Estate Agent mate will always tell me - every house will sell at the right price.

”We” (SL and MA) compounded it by not getting anything and paying their wages for 6-12 months.  Incompetence!

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

2 hours ago, Ian M said:

This is why I keep saying Ashton going is equivalent to the period when Pulis left us with an aging squad, on big money, on long contracts. It took us years of treading water at L1 level before we were able to challenge again. Pearson's task is to attempt to do that at Championship level. 3 years to get that season off the books (or turn one of the Academy lads into a £40m sale)

That was horrible Pulis, the big one for me was Paul Mortimer ffs I had him on a Panini sticker set for Charlton in the 80's before I did my GCSEs and we gave him 2.5 years in 1999. I was at Brentford singing Pulis off to Pompy the ****.  And the fall out with Scully at Gillingham was another kick in the balls. 

[Olé]

1 hour ago, O'Garlandinho said:

Presumably they didn’t want to disclose his remuneration in note 7, for us all to baffle at!

That’s in the Bristol City Ltd co accounts as opposed to Holdco if I recall correctly

[marmite]

2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Definitely need a rebuild now though don’t we!

Just when we can't afford it eh?

[Sleepy1968]

38 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

I'm sure we will hear from our chairman on this. When was Jon last seen? Announcing the new badge? 

 

I think he was last see somewhere around here

[NcnsBcfc]

 

 

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Let’s see….not convinced by that.  Ours are down to a ridiculously high cost base.  There are a few that might be in the same boat, but FFP-wise many will be fine, because they have a cost base 40-60% of ours and it’s slightly easier to absorb.

Thats my guess anyway.  I’m not including Reading and Derby in that though.

Afternoon @Davefevs.

I know we had a discussion on the FFP thread around the City High cost base. It's never been resolved has it?

In essence, outside of wages; City's operating costs for the last season seem to still be around £25m. Almost twice that of clubs of the same turnover as us in the division.

City don't break down what these operating costs are in the accounts (yet again). But they seem to be a major millstone around our necks moving forward. Regardless of transfer income, and getting wages down; this operatings costs is out of all proportion to the size of the business.

[Bazooka Joe]

2 hours ago, Mike Stone said:

Fingers crossed theres a bidding war for Lloyd Kelly and Newcsstle get their man. Oh and within the first two weeks would be nice

I reckon Kelly must be worth well over £100M by now,

And if there was a bidding war, it would be foolish to think that moneybags Wael won't end up being the highest bidder.  (Source: HenburyGas - he who knows all and must never be doubted ).

[Kodjias Wrist]

1 minute ago, Bazooka Joe said:

I reckon Kelly must be worth well over £100M by now,

And if there was a bidding war, it would be foolish to think that moneybags Wael won't end up being the highest bidder.  (Source: HenburyGas - he who knows all and must never be doubted ).

With Newcastle supposedly being the next Man City and Eddie Howe an admirer of Kelly, Im hoping for at least 30mill.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

 

 

Afternoon @Davefevs.

I know we had a discussion on the FFP thread around the City High cost base. It's never been resolved has it?

In essence, outside of wages; City's operating costs for the last season seem to still be around £25m. Almost twice that of clubs of the same turnover as us in the division.

City don't break down what these operating costs are in the accounts (yet again). But they seem to be a major millstone around our necks moving forward. Regardless of transfer income, and getting wages down; this operatings costs is out of all proportion to the size of the business.

Correct, we are a juggernaut of cost, that will take a long time to turn around!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, frenchred said:

Why would we be gone without him? Please explain.

A lot of the losses are down to his mistakes and bad football decisions as they are every year 

Exactly, Ashton,LJ....who ever didnt bring themselves here, SL is badly running this club he is the boss of this mess. The engine driver is in charge, everything is under his control....and here we are.

Edited December 28, 2021 by gl2

[Davefevs]

One small positive, the £6.2m transfer profit.  I’d estimated £2.8m from sale if players, so can only assume some / all of that difference is “add-ons” from previous player sales, e.g. perhaps Brownhill and Webster had relegation avoidance clauses, or them plus Kelly had appearance clauses.  We only sold Szmodics and Eliasson of any note in 20/21.

@Kid in the Riot - any thoughts?

Edited December 28, 2021 by Davefevs

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, gl2 said:

Exactly, Ashton,LJ....who ever didnt bring themselves here, SL is badly running this club he is the boss of this mess. The engine driver is in charge, everything is under his control....and here we are.

“I know the fans are critical of Mark, but he does a good job, umm, err, and he gives me a voice in the EFL” or words to that effect.

Looks like Richard Gould will be liaising with the EFL pretty regularly going forward!

FFS!

[Sleepy1968]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Correct, we are a juggernaut of cost, that will take a long time to turn around!

I wonder what Richard Gould has in store for season ticket (sorry 'card') renewal prices? I'm about the limit of what I'm willing to pay to watch a competent Championship team (and we're not that). My money's on a 30% increase: "thanks for sticking with us, but we're twisting."

[Bazooka Joe]

7 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

With Newcastle supposedly being the next Man City and Eddie Howe an admirer of Kelly, Im hoping for at least 30mill.

I'm with you on that.

Any idea how we can get someone to push up the bids to some ridiculous level?

[Loosey Boy]

1 minute ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I wonder what Richard Gould has in store for season ticket (sorry 'card') renewal prices? I'm about the limit of what I'm willing to pay to watch a competent Championship team (and we're not that). My money's on a 30% increase: "thanks for sticking with us, but we're twisting."

I don’t see City being stupid enough to raise ST costs by 30%!

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I wonder what Richard Gould has in store for season ticket (sorry 'card') renewal prices? I'm about the limit of what I'm willing to pay to watch a competent Championship team (and we're not that). My money's on a 30% increase: "thanks for sticking with us, but we're twisting."

Would be suicide imho.

What we need is more fans inside AG, with the appropriate proportion buying stuff whilst they are there.

I think the pricing needs a whole new way of thinking!  I’m not holding my breath though.

[Kodjias Wrist]

1 minute ago, Bazooka Joe said:

I'm with you on that.

Any idea how we can get someone to push up the bids to some ridiculous level?

Start rumours circulating that Liverpool are interested? An international call up on the cards. I'm sure his agent will sort us out haha.

[Mr Popodopolous]

The cost base, obviously wages and non cash costs ie Depreciation, Amortisation, Impairment. It does seem quite high but them again in normal times the high commercial revenue can feed into a highish cost base relating to it?

Wouldn't it also include Academy, Community, Women's football etc.

Of a few of the high wage players mentioned, think we can mostly agree that Palmer isn't the way forward but DaSilva only 23, can still injury permitting turn it around? Good technically. Wells record at QPR was excellent and he was our top scorer last season.

Can we get more on the pitch out of these two? I'd like to think so, albeit whether it's affordable is a different issue entirely!

As for Palmer, the only real time that he looked ideal was when he played behind Weimann and Afobe. Since then he's had moments but these have been fleeting.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous