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3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

I genuinely wonder if he has some deep rooted issue with us.

Apparently he was on Yeovil’s books, so certainly has some connection to this part of the world.

In the 3 games quoted he has given the opposition 4 penalties (2 of which were very dubious) & last night gave every marginal call to QPR.

He’s either incompetent or biased.

He could be both (or neither according to my legal counsel, but what do they know).

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15 minutes ago, Midred said:

How often are the same team of officials appear together at a match? The linesman are loath to get involved unless they can help it as possibly they might be the referee the next time.

They dont fanny around waving their flags nowadays - they are miked and talk to the ref directly. It would be impossible for me to see whether they discuss dubious decisions freom where I sit (my vision if less than perfect (hell, I'd make a good ref)).

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I think what annoys me the most about these referee's is you get the sense they are fairly untouchable. Countless occasions we'll have the same poor ref and they barely ever lose their jobs, yet Managers lose their jobs and have to answer questions when they have not been performing. 

They go home, take a good pay, never see or hear from them and are never seriously questioned. It's a hard job, I get it, but when you put yourself in that position surely there has to be some consequences to poor displays of refereeing, but there never feels like there actually is any.

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5 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I think what annoys me the most about these referee's is you get the sense they are fairly untouchable. Countless occasions we'll have the same poor ref and they barely ever lose their jobs, yet Managers lose their jobs and have to answer questions when they have not been performing. 

They go home, take a good pay, never see or hear from them and are never seriously questioned. It's a hard job, I get it, but when you put yourself in that position surely there has to be some consequences to poor displays of refereeing, but there never feels like there actually is any.

They shouldn't 'lose' their jobs, there should be more transparency from officials as to why they made or didn't make decisions on the pitch, whether thats by a brief interview after the game or a meeting with the two managers where the transcript is made available.

I'm not entirely sure what sort of review/training goes on with a ref after each match but it doesn't seem to be thorough enough!

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9 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I think what annoys me the most about these referee's is you get the sense they are fairly untouchable. Countless occasions we'll have the same poor ref and they barely ever lose their jobs, yet Managers lose their jobs and have to answer questions when they have not been performing. 

They go home, take a good pay, never see or hear from them and are never seriously questioned. It's a hard job, I get it, but when you put yourself in that position surely there has to be some consequences to poor displays of refereeing, but there never feels like there actually is any.

Come back Keith Stroud....all is forgiven! ???

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1 minute ago, grifty said:

They shouldn't 'lose' their jobs, there should be more transparency from officials as to why they made or didn't make decisions on the pitch, whether thats by a brief interview after the game or a meeting with the two managers where the transcript is made available.

I'm not entirely sure what sort of review/training goes on with a ref after each match but it doesn't seem to be thorough enough!

Managers lose their jobs when they aren't performing, Referee's can also sometimes play a part in them losing their jobs too. What makes them expendable? Surely if you have 5-10 matches in a row of being consistently poor there has to be some sort of protocol or repercussions put in place?

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3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Managers lose their jobs when they aren't performing, Referee's can also sometimes play a part in them losing their jobs too. What makes them expendable? Surely if you have 5-10 matches in a row of being consistently poor there has to be some sort of protocol or repercussions put in place?

I also think the rate that managers lose their job is crazy too.

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7 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I think what annoys me the most about these referee's is you get the sense they are fairly untouchable. Countless occasions we'll have the same poor ref and they barely ever lose their jobs, yet Managers lose their jobs and have to answer questions when they have not been performing. 

They go home, take a good pay, never see or hear from them and are never seriously questioned. It's a hard job, I get it, but when you put yourself in that position surely there has to be some consequences to poor displays of refereeing, but there never feels like there actually is any.

It’s the same in most sports. Refs, Umpires, 3rd men etc, they are protected beyond reason. 

Non-League refs of a certain level have to write up full transcripts detailing their decisions. Does that actually stop the higher up the pyramid you go?

Baffling.

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1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

My only question here is this - have we ever had him and him not been incompetent to the extent of seeming corrupt? I remember the above games clearly, and if the only three times we’ve had him are those two and last night, the club should be at least making a complaint to the FA. However, if we’ve had him on a few other occasions and he’s been “fine” it just may be that he’s prone to a crap game and we’re unlucky.

He did our 1-1 draw with Blackpool this season.

Also the 1-1 draw with Millwall last season.

In 2018/19 he did our 2-1 loss to Sheff Wed.

2017/18 he also did our opening day 3-1 win against Barnsley and the 5-0 loss to Villa.

2016/17 he did the 3-3 with Derby and the 1-0 win over Blackburn.

Would have to check the match day threads and reports to see if he was shite or not, but he's refereed us a few times since we've been back in the Champ...we don't always lose. This is league games only.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/andy-davies/profil/schiedsrichter/3995/plus/0?funktion=1&saison_id=2016&wettbewerb_id=GB2

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19 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

He did our 1-1 draw with Blackpool this season.

Also the 1-1 draw with Millwall last season.

In 2018/19 he did our 2-1 loss to Sheff Wed.

2017/18 he also did our opening day 3-1 win against Barnsley and the 5-0 loss to Villa.

2016/17 he did the 3-3 with Derby and the 1-0 win over Blackburn.

Would have to check the match day threads and reports to see if he was shite or not, but he's refereed us a few times since we've been back in the Champ...we don't always lose. This is league games only.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/andy-davies/profil/schiedsrichter/3995/plus/0?funktion=1&saison_id=2016&wettbewerb_id=GB2

Stop letting facts and rationality get in the way of a good ‘the ref’s a crook and hates us’ argument ?

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11 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

Stop letting facts and rationality get in the way of a good ‘the ref’s a crook and hates us’ argument ?

Look, of course it's possible that just before leaving for Ipswich Ashton went round Davies' house, smashed up his carriage clock collection, stole all his dishwasher salt, and re-ordered his spice rack to be geographical rather than alphabetical. Its possible that this has caused Davies to hate Bristol City with a passion ever burning. Of course, that's all very very plausible.

It's also possible he's just an average ref who had a crap game.

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2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Look, of course it's possible that just before leaving for Ipswich Ashton went round Davies' house, smashed up his carriage clock collection, stole all his dishwasher salt, and re-ordered his spice rack to be geographical rather than alphabetical. Its possible that this has caused Davies to hate Bristol City with a passion ever burning. Of course, that's all very very plausible.

It's also possible he's just an average ref who had a crap game.

Again. And again and again.

There ain't no excusing this bloke. Even the QPR fans are saying they were lucky to win, and I saw one comment about maybe the ref having money on QPR   :laugh:

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Watching it back on quest despite the handball before the second goal being directly in front of him he didn’t react at all, that says to me his head had gone and was unable to make any decisions having guessed most of the ones beforehand. Exactly the same happened at that Preston away game  

He’s not a competent referee for this level and imagine the carnage if he did somehow get promoted to the prem 

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4 hours ago, P'head Red said:

I was astounded by that decision, especially as it gave them an advantage!

It was accidental handball, which isn’t an offence ( if this is the same handball offence I’m thinking of!)

If it was in the penalty area it’s a penalty, but it wasn’t in the penalty area. This is where the law makers have fallen down, not the referees. 

Personally the worst decision of the night was not to book QPR’s penalty taker, what he did by winding up the crowd is according to the laws of the game 100% a bookable offence. Most of the other decisions that got peoples backs up are simply calls from the referee, they are ‘his’ opinion, whereas obviously the majority of the crowd felt they were wrong decisions. The decisions are all down to the referee’s opinion, and until people on here are willing to go and take the course and become a referee themselves, ( because clearly everyone can do better!)  you are going to have to accept it’s his call, and not yours!. 
There is a lack of referees in this country, especially ( obviously) at lower levels, if people feel really strongly that our referees aren’t up to it, then become one yourself, go for it ?

Edited by Portland Bill
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16 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Again. And again and again.

There ain't no excusing this bloke. Even the QPR fans are saying they were lucky to win, and I saw one comment about maybe the ref having money on QPR   :laugh:

Sure, there are three examples of him refereeing us and being poor.

I just checked match reports and the matchday thread from the 1-1 with Blackpool on the first day of this season. Nothing. Not a mention of the referee. So there's an example where presumably everyone was fine with his performance.

Unless someone goes through his performances forensically analysing how many decisions he gets correct and how many he gets wrong, and then compares the results to all the other referees, then we can't definitively say that Andy Davies is the worst referee ever. Doing so on here is all based on eyewitness, biased, anecdotal evidence whipped up by confirmation bias, a mob mentality, and the pain of losing.

There's no doubt he got some stuff wrong last night, but there is some pretty kneejerk and conspiratorial stuff in this thread.

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1 hour ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

It’s the same in most sports. Refs, Umpires, 3rd men etc, they are protected beyond reason. 

Non-League refs of a certain level have to write up full transcripts detailing their decisions. Does that actually stop the higher up the pyramid you go?

Baffling.

Referees and the other three officials are under intense scrutiny. They are assessed every game, de- briefs are held a couple of days after every game. Every decision they make is 100% scrutinised by the assessor. 
TBH you can’t imagine how much pressure they are under, there are no grey areas for referees nowadays, if  it’s an offence by the laws of the game it’s an offence, common sense is NOT allowed anymore. 
The assessors report that each official receives, including the fourth official, is so in depth you can’t imagine. The game is broken down into minutes. 
Anyone who thinks the officials are “protected” really hasn’t a clue ( sorry )?
I am speaking as someone who sees these assessments every week, and privy to what goes on in the de briefs. 

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7 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Referees and the other three officials are under intense scrutiny. They are assessed every game, de- briefs are held a couple of days after every game. Every decision they make is 100% scrutinised by the assessor. 
TBH you can’t imagine how much pressure they are under, there are no grey areas for referees nowadays, if  it’s an offence by the laws of the game it’s an offence, common sense is NOT allowed anymore. 
The assessors report that each official receives, including the fourth official, is so in depth you can’t imagine. The game is broken down into minutes. 
Anyone who thinks the officials are “protected” really hasn’t a clue ( sorry )?
I am speaking as someone who sees these assessments every week, and privy to what goes on in the de briefs. 

Thanks Bill ?

So when they do assess that sh*t show (and it was a sh*t show), what will happen to our mate in the middle? What happens with these assessments and how is feedback/discipline(?) given?

Like to make it clear that he made some terrible decisions for both sides - failed to book Matty James for blocking their free kick taker early on, and should have booked two City players for kicking the ball away after whistle had gone (Weiman and I think Semenyo) and penalise O'Leary for holding the ball for about 20 seconds on atleast two occasions

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14 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Referees and the other three officials are under intense scrutiny. They are assessed every game, de- briefs are held a couple of days after every game. Every decision they make is 100% scrutinised by the assessor. 
TBH you can’t imagine how much pressure they are under, there are no grey areas for referees nowadays, if  it’s an offence by the laws of the game it’s an offence, common sense is NOT allowed anymore. 
The assessors report that each official receives, including the fourth official, is so in depth you can’t imagine. The game is broken down into minutes. 
Anyone who thinks the officials are “protected” really hasn’t a clue ( sorry )?
I am speaking as someone who sees these assessments every week, and privy to what goes on in the de briefs. 

Despite my user name which was a bit of a tongue in cheek dig at blaming the referee for a loss. I think ref's have an almost impossible job and cannot get every decision correct, I do not mind a very fussy ref, although I prefer one who lets the game flow, but which ever it is as long as they apply it evenly to each side. As fans we often feel hard done by, but when you get the likes of NP making the comments he did, then you know the ref has had a mare.

So did you think the ref and his assistants had a good game?

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3 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

The one on Sky and Quest, I think someone linked to it on another thread

Basically said (along the lines of from memory), for someone who supposedly played football, albeit at a low level he was incredibly naive and got many decisions wrong, hope the next time he seems him is on the parks as that is his level

Just to update and add in NP actual quotes

"We came across a strong team and some dodgy refereeing. We should’ve had another penalty. The decisions were awful and I’ve told him that,"

“As an ex player wow, naivety beyond belief in all honesty. I know he was a lower league player, I hope the next time I see him he’s on the parks because that’s where he should be

"How the assistant didn’t see it (the Scott penalty call). Look, we had it all on playing against 11 when we had 10 but the decisions just continued to be awful. It was a terrible performance by them (the officials).

"I’m not someone who moans a lot but let me tell you, that was awful today, and I told him as well."

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1 hour ago, Portland Bill said:

It was accidental handball, which isn’t an offence ( if this is the same handball offence I’m thinking of!)

If it was in the penalty area it’s a penalty, but it wasn’t in the penalty area. This is where the law makers have fallen down, not the referees. 

Personally the worst decision of the night was not to book QPR’s penalty taker, what he did by winding up the crowd is according to the laws of the game 100% a bookable offence. Most of the other decisions that got peoples backs up are simply calls from the referee, they are ‘his’ opinion, whereas obviously the majority of the crowd felt they were wrong decisions. The decisions are all down to the referee’s opinion, and until people on here are willing to go and take the course and become a referee themselves, ( because clearly everyone can do better!)  you are going to have to accept it’s his call, and not yours!. 
There is a lack of referees in this country, especially ( obviously) at lower levels, if people feel really strongly that our referees aren’t up to it, then become one yourself, go for it ?

How Austin got away with celebrating like that was an absolute pi55 take!

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1 hour ago, Portland Bill said:

Referees and the other three officials are under intense scrutiny. They are assessed every game, de- briefs are held a couple of days after every game. Every decision they make is 100% scrutinised by the assessor. 
TBH you can’t imagine how much pressure they are under, there are no grey areas for referees nowadays, if  it’s an offence by the laws of the game it’s an offence, common sense is NOT allowed anymore. 
The assessors report that each official receives, including the fourth official, is so in depth you can’t imagine. The game is broken down into minutes. 
Anyone who thinks the officials are “protected” really hasn’t a clue ( sorry )?
I am speaking as someone who sees these assessments every week, and privy to what goes on in the de briefs. 

What sort of score and feedback is last nights ref (and his team) likely to receive?

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32 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Despite my user name which was a bit of a tongue in cheek dig at blaming the referee for a loss. I think ref's have an almost impossible job and cannot get every decision correct, I do not mind a very fussy ref, although I prefer one who lets the game flow, but which ever it is as long as they apply it evenly to each side. As fans we often feel hard done by, but when you get the likes of NP making the comments he did, then you know the ref has had a mare.

So did you think the ref and his assistants had a good game?

Personally, and probably because I wasn’t amongst the crowd, I didn’t think he was as bad as some are trying to make out. I understand why people think he was though. I think the crowd were baying for blood, partly because they thought we should have had a penalty ( I don’t think it was even close) and because of Charlie Austen’s antics. So every decision that went against us, especially in the second half was treated as contentious and the crowd thought was wrong. If I had been at the game I may well have been a lot angrier than I was watching it on tv!.

There were a lot of niggly fouls, some could have gone either way, but the ref gave them as he saw them ( he was a lot closer than any of us). The sending off was 100%, Andy King was a complete fool for doing what he did, when there was absolutely no need. 
As I’ve got older ( hopefully wiser!) I don’t get irate with the officials, as I know it’s the hardest job by a million miles in football, and they give what they see in a split second. Some decisions go for you, some not, it’s always been the same.

Did I think the ref had a good game, probably not. But we only have ourselves to blame for losing the game Imo.

 

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I always look at our own performance before having a go at any referee decisions but last night was really really poor from the officiating standpoint. He wanted to be centre of attention and got it. 

A referee shouldn't even be noticed in a game but him being in the middle of it all says a lot. I was unsure of the Scott shout in the first half but looking back the ref and lino bottled that, but the flow of the game was so stop start. Pulling the game back for no reason.

There was one moment where we pinched the ball high up and won a throw-in and the QPR player went down for no reason, we could have played on but the referee stopped the game which he should not do because it was not a head injury. It almost seemed like he wanted to slow us down, that really irritated me. He did not give a foul for that challenge because it was not a foul but that does not mean stop the game for something that was not a foul. Absolutely moronic call and it felt like it wasn't going to be our day.

We were looking strong until the ref pulled up for little things and we had to build up momentum again and again.

Can't fault our boys but I hope to never see him referee another one of our games again.

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5 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

What sort of score and feedback is last nights ref (and his team) likely to receive?

It will depend on the assessor, the assessor may well agree with the decisions the referee made. The sending off was correct, QPR’s penalty was correct, all the yellow cards were correct. Scott going down in the penalty area is a contentious one, but with one view the referee was probably correct. Lots of fouls could have gone either way, but he gave what he saw. 
He will get slaughtered for not booking Charlie Austin, because that is a major mistake, which is not acceptable. 
But saying this, I wouldn’t like to second guess an assessor, because they are a law to themselves!!.

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3 minutes ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

I always look at our own performance before having a go at any referee decisions but last night was really really poor from the officiating standpoint. He wanted to be centre of attention and got it. 

A referee shouldn't even be noticed in a game but him being in the middle of it all says a lot. I was unsure of the Scott shout in the first half but looking back the ref and lino bottled that, but the flow of the game was so stop start. Pulling the game back for no reason.

There was one moment where we pinched the ball high up and won a throw-in and the QPR player went down for no reason, we could have played on but the referee stopped the game which he should not do because it was not a head injury. It almost seemed like he wanted to slow us down, that really irritated me. He did not give a foul for that challenge because it was not a foul but that does not mean stop the game for something that was not a foul. Absolutely moronic call and it felt like it wasn't going to be our day.

We were looking strong until the ref pulled up for little things and we had to build up momentum again and again.

Can't fault our boys but I hope to never see him referee another one of our games again.

The only reason he stopped the game for the alleged injury, ‘was’ because the ball was out of play. Unfortunately that’s become the norm, and us as City fans would have been incensed if it was one of our players and the ref hadn’t stopped the game. Yes, it was gamesmanship, but every team does it!. 

 

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2 minutes ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

I always look at our own performance before having a go at any referee decisions but last night was really really poor from the officiating standpoint. He wanted to be centre of attention and got it. 

A referee shouldn't even be noticed in a game but him being in the middle of it all says a lot. I was unsure of the Scott shout in the first half but looking back the ref and lino bottled that, but the flow of the game was so stop start. Pulling the game back for no reason.

There was one moment where we pinched the ball high up and won a throw-in and the QPR player went down for no reason, we could have played on but the referee stopped the game which he should not do because it was not a head injury. It almost seemed like he wanted to slow us down, that really irritated me. He did not give a foul for that challenge because it was not a foul but that does not mean stop the game for something that was not a foul. Absolutely moronic call and it felt like it wasn't going to be our day.

We were looking strong until the ref pulled up for little things and we had to build up momentum again and again.

Can't fault our boys but I hope to never see him referee another one of our games again.

And I think that's where Nige normally is with it too, certainly there have been games this season where he probably would have been within his rights to mention the referee but hasn't done because he didn't want it to excuse our own shortcomings (the Forest game springs to mind). However last night's clown was that bad, and the team performance was more than worthy of at least a point, that he felt strongly enough to to be able to say so.

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1 hour ago, Loïs said:

Thanks Bill ?

So when they do assess that sh*t show (and it was a sh*t show), what will happen to our mate in the middle? What happens with these assessments and how is feedback/discipline(?) given?

Like to make it clear that he made some terrible decisions for both sides - failed to book Matty James for blocking their free kick taker early on, and should have booked two City players for kicking the ball away after whistle had gone (Weiman and I think Semenyo) and penalise O'Leary for holding the ball for about 20 seconds on atleast two occasions

The marks the referee gets are culminated ( if that’s the right word?) over a season. If he gets constantly low marks then he will more than likely get demoted. 
As he is an ex pro footballer I don’t know if he got fast tracked through the leagues, as this is what football fans have been telling us they want, ie, ex players. I think the reaction he has got from City fans may just prove the point that it doesn’t matter at all if you have played the game at a good level, because refereeing is 100% the opposite from playing the game, and don’t I know it!!. 
Most referees who get to the top level will have been doing it for 30 years, ex pro footballers will never get to do the hard early years. That’s where the top officials learn. 

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13 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

The only reason he stopped the game for the alleged injury, ‘was’ because the ball was out of play. Unfortunately that’s become the norm, and us as City fans would have been incensed if it was one of our players and the ref hadn’t stopped the game. Yes, it was gamesmanship, but every team does it!. 

 

 

Their player should have been carded for feigning a head injury. At no point did anything touch his head apart from his own hands.

I'd love to see retrospective punishments handed out for am dram like that. 

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