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Weimann - All he does is "run around"


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21 hours ago, spudski said:

As NP said..he was in the right places at the right time.

Today was a prime example of when he's most effective as a goal scorer.

No time to think...just react. It's when he's best.

Think his second goal was a proper strikers goal. And he anticipated and moved in a way I wish he'd do on a more regular basis.

For everyone of these threads praising him, there will be two after other games doing the opposite.

That's what you've got with Weimann.

If he was technically better he'd be playing for Austria. He hasn't in years.

 

 

 

 

19 hours ago, VT05763 said:

If he could do what he did for his second goal consistently, he'd be another level.

And not playing for us !!!

The only thing stopping him from playing in a lower Prem/Top six Champs team is his inconsistency and much of that could be down to how awful we have been as a team the last 2 seasons.

That second goal…was brilliant. A carbon copy of Foden’s against Brentford. And FYI if you didn’t watch that game, the Sky commentators creamed themselves about the quality.

I also think @spudski you have a point about technical ability. I can’t correlate today’s wages with the talent on show. Maybe my expectations are too high? Some of the crossing I see at the highest levels of the game, from players on £40k a week is shameful. 

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I was unable to make it yesterday..............but having watched the goals on SKY (Why does it take the media team soooooo long to put the highlights up on the main site?)...........I have to say that was an exceptional hat trick, all 3 goals were expertly taken, and Andi showed what a class act he is, on his day?   Somethings just get better with age?   12 goals so far, after a season ending ACL injury, is really outstanding.....but then again, apparently,  all he does is "Run around a lot"

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50 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

 

That second goal…was brilliant. A carbon copy of Foden’s against Brentford. And FYI if you didn’t watch that game, the Sky commentators creamed themselves about the quality.

I also think @spudski you have a point about technical ability. I can’t correlate today’s wages with the talent on show. Maybe my expectations are too high? Some of the crossing I see at the highest levels of the game, from players on £40k a week is shameful. 

I agree with you. Imo, at this level, fitness, strength and durability are far superior to a lot of players technical ability.

The wages paid to many, don't really justify themselves.

There are many who have been rejected by Prem teams, or relegated with them, then end up in this league, taking very good wages, knowing full well they aren't good enough for the Prem...yet expect silly money, or did. Hopefully times are changing.

Your point about crossing is a prime example. Perfect pitches, perfect conditions, yet they still some can't find a man in the box.

But even as an amateur footballer (Yate) everyone of us could cross, take a free kick, trap, pass, find a man, and shoot without scuffing it ( have you watched them shooting warming up? Never seen so many scuffed shots or missing the target) We didn't have the fitness, but we made up for it technically. Oddly....even back then, our least gifted player got more trials because of his speed and fitness. 

Nearly every sport has been taken over by fitness and technology. In the past technical ability, feel, touch, reading of game was far superior at this level and below. 

Football, Rugby, Cricket, Golf, Tennis to name a few...all had technically gifted people playing the game as pros. Touch and feel especially. Now it's more about, power, speed, strength, durability, fitness. 

I scratch my head as to why players at this level often can't control a ball properly... especially in such perfect conditions. 

Obviously the very top level have both...but at this level and below I think the standards have dropped.

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1 hour ago, maxjak said:

I was unable to make it yesterday..............but having watched the goals on SKY (Why does it take the media team soooooo long to put the highlights up on the main site?)...........I have to say that was an exceptional hat trick, all 3 goals were expertly taken, and Andi showed what a class act he is, on his day?   Somethings just get better with age?   12 goals so far, after a season ending ACL injury, is really outstanding.....but then again, apparently,  all he does is "Run around a lot"

Broadcasting rights….Skysports can put up highlights early after a match, then Quest get theirs, and then I think post-midnight for the rest.  Best place to check first is YouTube rather than OS!

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18 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Classy goal. Much harder than he makes it look. xG of 0.07, so it goes in, at Championship level, roughly 7 in 100 times.

However, calling a guy who averages about 6 goals a season a "natural goalscorer" is laughable punditry.

Is that right? Bloody hell, I should think someone’s calculator is broken! Reminds me of why I’m not so taken on all these stat calculations. COYR 

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9 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

Is that right? Bloody hell, I should think someone’s calculator is broken! Reminds me of why I’m not so taken on all these stat calculations. COYR 

It's the same maths, methodology, and study that shows that penalties are scored roughly 78% of the time, and so get an xG of about 0.78. So yeh, shots like the one Weimann took for his first goal are scored 7% of the time.

Edited by ExiledAjax
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2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's the same maths, methodology, and study that shows that penalties are scored roughly 81% of the time, and so get an xG of about 0.81. So yeh, shots like the one Weimann took for his first goal are scored 7% of the time.

I find that incredible. The goalkeeper is 10 yards off his line & Weimann is 25ish yards out, with the ball bouncing up reasonably favourably. Are all those factors in that percentage? That’s a genuine question? COYR 

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7 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

I find that incredible. The goalkeeper is 10 yards off his line & Weimann is 25ish yards out, with the ball bouncing up reasonably favourably. Are all those factors in that percentage? That’s a genuine question? COYR 

I can't tell you precisely, but the figure is from Infogol and they describe their methodology thus "...shot location and shot type are the two major contributing factors when projecting how likely it is that a goal is scored from any chance. Minor contributing factors include how the chance originated. For instance whether the opportunity followed a fast break, often a proxy for the amount of defensive pressure or whether the build-up was slower or was created from a set piece."

Full description here: https://www.infogol.net/en/blog/education/an-introduction-to-expected-goals-11112016

Edited by ExiledAjax
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6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I can't tell you precisely, but the figure is from Infogol and they describe their methodology thus "...shot location and shot type are the two major contributing factors when projecting how likely it is that a goal is scored from any chance. Minor contributing factors include how the chance originated. For instance whether the opportunity followed a fast break, often a proxy for the amount of defensive pressure or whether the build-up was slower or was created from a set piece."

Full description here: https://www.infogol.net/en/blog/education/an-introduction-to-expected-goals-11112016

If there were defenders in the box and the keeper in position, rather than how it was yesterday, then to score would have been much harder.

He lobbed into an empty unguarded net. That's the difference in this instant. 

To miss an unguarded empty net from that position 93 times out of a hundred, we'd be pulling our hair out surely.

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55 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's the same maths, methodology, and study that shows that penalties are scored roughly 78% of the time, and so get an xG of about 0.78. So yeh, shots like the one Weimann took for his first goal are scored 7% of the time.

For info Wyscout gave it 0.09 (so 1 in 11). Their definition:

Expected goals (xG) is a predictive ML model used to assess the likelihood of scoring for every shot made in the game.

For every shot, the xG model calculates the probability to score based on event parameters:

  • Location of the shot
  • Location of the assist
  • Foot or head
  • Assist type
  • Was there a dribble of a field player or a goalkeeper immediately before the shot?
  • Is it coming from a set piece?
  • Was the shot a counterattack or did it happen in a transition?
  • Tagger's assessment of the danger of the shot
49 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

I find that incredible. The goalkeeper is 10 yards off his line & Weimann is 25ish yards out, with the ball bouncing up reasonably favourably. Are all those factors in that percentage? That’s a genuine question? COYR 

See above too.  It was also on his wrong foot.  Here’s a pic of the moment he pulls the trigger.  I don’t think it was an easy chance at all.  The various xG models concur, and they’ve sampled thousands of goals, including taking goalkeeper position into account.  Wyscout uses two examples in their glossary to show this, which I won’t bore you with.  The speed of the game is a factor nowadays too.

image.thumb.png.bb03c6b1fbdbdf53ca311aced2ca2feb.png
 

shot on its way, just beating off the block.

image.thumb.png.458e4265cbf0f3df99803a4b1bf5b198.png

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Broadcasting rights….Skysports can put up highlights early after a match, then Quest get theirs, and then I think post-midnight for the rest.  Best place to check first is YouTube rather than OS!

Thanks for the heads up............now i geddit!

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

If there were defenders in the box and the keeper in position, rather than how it was yesterday, then to score would have been much harder.

He lobbed into an empty unguarded net. That's the difference in this instant. 

To miss an unguarded empty net from that position 93 times out of a hundred, we'd be pulling our hair out surely.

It was a shot not a "lob".

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Just now, VT05763 said:

It was a shot not a "lob".

Ok...'shot' over the keeper into an unguarded net...let's not be pedantic about certain words...you know what I mean.

The thread has certainly gone way off tbh. All over which was the hardest goal to score. You think first...I think second, and the Quest pundit thought the third. 

Either way...they were well taken goals. 

What makes me chuckle though...is the XG rating. Imagine being sat in the stadium and watching the attempt 100 times over and over again, and 93 were missed. ??

 

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4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Ok...'shot' over the keeper into an unguarded net...let's not be pedantic about certain words...you know what I mean.

The thread has certainly gone way off tbh. All over which was the hardest goal to score. You think first...I think second, and the Quest pundit thought the third. 

Either way...they were well taken goals. 

What makes me chuckle though...is the XG rating. Imagine being sat in the stadium and watching the attempt 100 times over and over again, and 93 were missed. ??

 

Yes I agree that any decent player would score that first chance far more than 7 times out of a hundred in that particular scenario.

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22 hours ago, spudski said:

Seriously...some of these pundits are complete morons. 

Best goal...the third one because he was fastest to react ????? it literally fell at his feet. Everyone else had to move to get to him. 

I'll be busy...but thanks for the acknowledgement. Carry on with your mud pies...? ?

It wasn't the best of the three.....but I have seen plenty of premier league players volley a chance like that into row Z, give the guy some credit?

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Weimann is an amazing pressing forward to have in your side and no doubt he does “run around a lot” but that’s because he’s obviously extremely fit. I don’t think he’s a striker at all but if we can get our hands on somebody that is an out and our goal scorer and then your number 10 chipping in with 15+  then I think we taking steps towards a proper team.

I think it’s a big 9 (main striker) and a nippy, workhorse 10 (with goals up his sleeve) situation we really need with how we play. 
 

I don’t understand Semenyo playing where he is, that’s the biggest mystery but could be Bobby Reid v2? Only time will tell but I firmly believe that we can though yesterday improve and was a shit show with our current predicament. We need a proper big man and Weimann will thrive with goals and assists.

If JD is out of the frame we will get decent money from his sale, he’s just not quite a fit at the Gate unfortunately. 
 

Even if it’s a loan, a target man is a massive priority as well as maybe someone to replace Vyner - however I still think the striker is more important but it’s definitely a close call.

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37 minutes ago, maxjak said:

It wasn't the best of the three.....but I have seen plenty of premier league players volley a chance like that into row Z, give the guy some credit?

The pundit was referring to the third goal. 

It was the easiest of the three to score. 

I'm not discrediting him...simply pointing out it was easier than some are making out... especially for a professional at this level. 

The first and third goals, I would expect to hit target. 

The second a fantastic strikers goal. 

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2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

I've watched the team do shooting practice in the warm up...so yeh I can believe that most of them would miss that chance nine times out of ten.

I always watch the practice net.  Brownhill had top quality technique, top spin hit on a moving ball.  Kelly and Bryan, super strikers of the ball, effortless.  Wells is hit and miss, but better than most.  Pato was good too.

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3 hours ago, spudski said:

Ok...'shot' over the keeper into an unguarded net...let's not be pedantic about certain words...you know what I mean.

The thread has certainly gone way off tbh. All over which was the hardest goal to score. You think first...I think second, and the Quest pundit thought the third. 

Either way...they were well taken goals. 

What makes me chuckle though...is the XG rating. Imagine being sat in the stadium and watching the attempt 100 times over and over again, and 93 were missed. ??

Weimann scored - why can’t you celebrate that without bringing boring, irrelevant analysis into it - Weimann kicked the ball into the net - Wahey! Bristol City scored a goal! Please celebrate with us when it happens Spudski without delving into XG ratings etc ... cheers! 

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9 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Weimann scored - why can’t you celebrate that without bringing boring, irrelevant analysis into it - Weimann kicked the ball into the net - Wahey! Bristol City scored a goal! Please celebrate with us when it happens Spudski without delving into XG ratings etc ... cheers! 

I didn't bring XG ratings into it. Someone else did. So have a dig at them.

Not sure why I'm getting pelters for this.

The discussion just developed about which goals were technically better.

Glad he scored, glad we won. 

He's going through a purple patch...as NP alluded to post match...in as much as he's glad to have Weimann ' in this form'.

The only reason this thread exists, is because Andi is such a frustrating player. 

Enough said on the subject.

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52 minutes ago, spudski said:

I didn't bring XG ratings into it. Someone else did. So have a dig at them.

Not sure why I'm getting pelters for this.

The discussion just developed about which goals were technically better.

Glad he scored, glad we won. 

He's going through a purple patch...as NP alluded to post match...in as much as he's glad to have Weimann ' in this form'.

The only reason this thread exists, is because Andi is such a frustrating player. 

Enough said on the subject.

You did actually….you said you’d expect him to score that chance 9/10.  That’s xG, you just didn’t use that “term”.

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You did actually….you said you’d expect him to score that chance 9/10.  That’s xG, you just didn’t use that “term”.

What is this...pedants reunited ?? I mentioned 9/10...then yourself and exiled went in depth XG...and I'm getting the flack ???  so it's ok for yourself...but I say something and it's full on. ?Wtf ?

 

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11 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Weimann scored - why can’t you celebrate that without bringing boring, irrelevant analysis into it - Weimann kicked the ball into the net - Wahey! Bristol City scored a goal! Please celebrate with us when it happens Spudski without delving into XG ratings etc ... cheers! 

 

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

You did actually….you said you’d expect him to score that chance 9/10.  That’s xG, you just didn’t use that “term”.

 

53 minutes ago, spudski said:

What is this...pedants reunited ?? I mentioned 9/10...then yourself and exiled went in depth XG...and I'm getting the flack ???  so it's ok for yourself...but I say something and it's full on. ?Wtf ?

I think to be fair I first mentioned the heinous term "xG". To those who were innocently celebrating a goal: I can only apologise. My words were insensitive and selfishly ruined your fun by involving statistical analysis. I pooped your party and I am sorry. That’s not the kind of person I aspire to be and I will learn from this mistake and become a better person. 

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14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I always watch the practice net.  Brownhill had top quality technique, top spin hit on a moving ball.  Kelly and Bryan, super strikers of the ball, effortless.  Wells is hit and miss, but better than most.  Pato was good too.

Chris Martin is very decent.

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Very well deserved. Some of the critiques he gets on here, I don't understand them- I remember back to his first season he made runs, early and excellent runs which we couldn't pick up- but the fact we couldn't pick them up was generally on us, not him- he was perhaps a step ahead.

I digress, well deserved hattrick and a key player for us- they were all different types of goals but all taken nicely.

As well as the goals though, his energy is key and his versatility- we saw the latter when he was an important part of the side despite being out of position for months in LJ's final full season, 2018/19- he was sacrificing himself for the team, while having 2 and maybe 3 goals wrongly disallowed- iirc definite errors that season were Derby away, Nottingham Forest away and Aston Villa away with a couple more that may have been right but close. Not bad technically either IMO- should be central or as a wideish right forward in a front 3- definitely not a winger or wide midfielder IMO. Assists as well.

Forgot to say, as well as the above one more sign of his versatility was last season under Holden for a time when he played CM- did quite well there too, until injury- and I guess he can drop back or just off the striker as a result of that experience, perhaps later in games.

£2m fee and then resigned on a free on lower wages? Strong business- probably in his peak years for his position or age range anyway.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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