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Ashton Gate Eight - 40th Anniversary events announced


shahanshahan

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7 hours ago, billywedlock said:

It is still hard to comprehend how the club went from the top flight and got relegated in successive seasons to Div 4 (LG2). How some of the players that looked quite Ok at the higher levels were then part of a group that fell off the edge. Whilst a few of them were getting older, it does not explain why the great failure. As a fan in those days, it really was hard to comprehend. Yes of course we lost some key players (Cheese for example) but it was impossible to understand a total implosion , OK out of the top flight, but to totally collapse . We did rely on buying experienced but end of career players ( Hunter/Cooper/Royle etc.) but still , why the huge failure. I did not understand back in the day and even now with the benefit of hindsight struggle to understand how we were the first club in history to go from the top flight to the bottom in successive seasons. Others can maybe explain. 

The world in action clip struck a chord with me, regarding something that hadn't registered at the time.

In 1979 Gary Collier left on a free. Dicks then gave very long contracts to various players so that it wouldn't happen again. The likes of Whitehead on £500 a week with gauranteed bonus add ons...decent money in those days.

We then got relegated the following year.

With those long contracts, you then feel nice and secure. Pretty cosy. Set up for the rest of your career.

You can just go through the motions, no desire...no need. You aren't having to fight for your career or livelihood anymore.

It struck a chord.

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7 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

Cool, if this was our current squad that got us relegated to league 2, the level of animosity towards them would be unbelievable, yet thats not how the 8 are remembered.

I understand the levels of salary arent the same as now, but they were still making a good living, yet some of them, in some form, must have been horrifically underperforming? 
 

im trying to get some idea of whose responsibility it was that the collapse was that bad.

I'll bite

I don't think your trying to get some idea of whose responsibility it was that the collapse was that bad at all

I believe you are just trying to whip it up I'll  feeling towards the magnificent 8 and on this forum

Either go dig up all the stories surrounding this sad era, it's not hard with Google, or join the majority in thanking these guys and the club for what was done over the weekend.

Your continual digs regarding the players performance at the time.serves no.purpose

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8 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

Cool, if this was our current squad that got us relegated to league 2, the level of animosity towards them would be unbelievable, yet thats not how the 8 are remembered.

I understand the levels of salary arent the same as now, but they were still making a good living, yet some of them, in some form, must have been horrifically underperforming? 
 

im trying to get some idea of whose responsibility it was that the collapse was that bad.

I get where you’re coming from but it’s probably unfair to just blame the players. From some simple research it appears anyone of any value was sold off and sometimes for less than they were worth and not replaced.

So perhaps falling through the leagues was inevitable and remember while we were the first Wolves also suffered three consecutive relegations no long after 

However what’s always amazed me is how those running the club seemed to escape scrutiny. It appears there was a lot of taking more money out of the club than was being put in as well as a lot of incompetence. Maybe it was a different era but whereas Risdale at Leeds was crucified although has somehow remained in football those allegedly managing the club just seemed to disappear into the background 

 

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2 hours ago, spudski said:

The world in action clip struck a chord with me, regarding something that hadn't registered at the time.

In 1979 Gary Collier left on a free. Dicks then gave very long contracts to various players so that it wouldn't happen again. The likes of Whitehead on £500 a week with gauranteed bonus add ons...decent money in those days.

We then got relegated the following year.

With those long contracts, you then feel nice and secure. Pretty cosy. Set up for the rest of your career.

You can just go through the motions, no desire...no need. You aren't having to fight for your career or livelihood anymore.

It struck a chord.

Didn’t we get £325k in a tribunal for Collier?

Listening to JP on 20Man last Monday he implied that it wasn’t Dicks who agreed the contracts, but the board.  All Dicks said was that we had to secure players to avoid them leaving under “freedom of contract” and City running the risk of tribunal under-valuing the player(s).

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22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Didn’t we get £325k in a tribunal for Collier?

Listening to JP on 20Man last Monday he implied that it wasn’t Dicks who agreed the contracts, but the board.  All Dicks said was that we had to secure players to avoid them leaving under “freedom of contract” and City running the risk of tribunal under-valuing the player(s).

I really can't remember whether there was money from a tribunal.

The world in action interviews are a really good insight. Both Dicks and the Board blaming one another. And giving reasons. Peter Godsiffs appraisal is good too. 

The buck stops with the board, they have to sign things off. They could have turned it down.

Either way, however way you look at it, giving players contracts that long is madness. 

Having to play and have the drive to get your next contract...the impress...get a better deal, will always give a certain percentage of ' extra' from a player.

We basically handed some a sofa.

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1 minute ago, spudski said:

I really can't remember whether there was money from a tribunal.

The world in action interviews are a really good insight. Both Dicks and the Board blaming one another. And giving reasons. Peter Godsiffs appraisal is good too. 

The buck stops with the board, they have to sign things off. They could have turned it down.

Either way, however way you look at it, giving players contracts that long is madness. 

Having to play and have the drive to get your next contract...the impress...get a better deal, will always give a certain percentage of ' extra' from a player.

We basically handed some a sofa.

Googled. Yes £325k for him in a tribunal. 

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4 hours ago, frenchred said:

I'll bite

I don't think your trying to get some idea of whose responsibility it was that the collapse was that bad at all

I believe you are just trying to whip it up I'll  feeling towards the magnificent 8 and on this forum

Either go dig up all the stories surrounding this sad era, it's not hard with Google, or join the majority in thanking these guys and the club for what was done over the weekend.

Your continual digs regarding the players performance at the time.serves no.purpose

Im not really looking to, and i dont believe i have the ability to whip up ill feeling amongst a support numbering tens of thousands, but im trying to understand the situation that happened 40 years ago, which is current news as they were all on the pitch at the weekend.

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14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think key players losses like Gow….then Harford etc, together with the players getting older had an affect.

@Curr Avon can you add more?

In addition to the AG8 contracts, a number of things contributed to City's downfall Dave, way before 1982.

The failure to properly insure Cheesley following his retirement (from League football) in 1977 to fund his replacement. Although Garland joined in November '76, helping to save City that season, he was badly injured early in the following campaign and played few games between 1977-80.

Ousting Chairman Robert Hobbs in 1977, after he invited potential new Directors to join the Board for a £25000 investment, and the subsequent costly court cases. 

The failure to bring through any capable talented youngsters, apart from Mabbutt, instead relying on aged players with a limited shelf life. Cooper suffered an injury early in his career and played few games. Late on Meijer, Jantuunen etc were poor replacements, as was Tony Fitzpatrick who cost £350000 and contributed a solitary goal in the forgettable 80-81 season, when we scored just 29 in 42. 

As a footnote Gow went to Man City in October 1980, and despite having battered knees starred in the 1981 Cup Final against Spurs, plus a further season before joining Rotherham, then Burnley.

Harford was a terrific signing in the Summer of 1981, but we had to sell him after the takeover. He actually went back to Newcastle, as City either hadn't made any transfer payments, or were behind, and the Toon then sold him to Birmingham. Strange days indeed. Most peculiar Momma.

 

Edited by Curr Avon
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14 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

Cool, if this was our current squad that got us relegated to league 2, the level of animosity towards them would be unbelievable, yet thats not how the 8 are remembered.

I understand the levels of salary arent the same as now, but they were still making a good living, yet some of them, in some form, must have been horrifically underperforming? 
 

im trying to get some idea of whose responsibility it was that the collapse was that bad.

There was a collective of responsibility for the wrong doings and effect that subsequently materialised.

When we got to div 1 it was obvious that we had to attract better more experienced players, especially with the loss of Cheesley right at the start of our experience. We then also lost what was probably our best player in Collier, massive hit losing those two. The youth team (todays academy) was abandoned to help pay towards those costs. Ultimately there were not a lot coming through when we did hit on hard times. Not sure about the scouting system being cut back as well.

When those older players reached their sell by date which was quite quick as they were all older players in Cooper, Hunter, Royle, Cormack, we'd tried to bring in equivalent replacement players but not successful in the likes of Fitzpatrick from Scotland. So we were struggling with the core that got us promoted, Merrick was injured for 18 months prior to the collapse.

I don't think you can blame the players as we'd lost our best in Gow, Ritchie, Mabbut, Whitehead, by the time of 82 came about. Then when it really hit was the selling of Harford and Moller by the old board, our chances of survival from the 3rd went with them.

The 8 players were doing what they could for themselves and negotiated a pay off, I believe it ended up at £100k, £12k each, plus monies raised at testimonial events. Not too bad really, as a large terrace house could be bought with that in Ashton, about £500k nowadays.

In truth, it was bad management by the board of directors, who ruled with their hearts not their heads. Of course, there were no parachute payments in those days. They'd have probably been better cutting their cloth and accepting that, if that option was available then.  

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2 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

Im not really looking to, and i dont believe i have the ability to whip up ill feeling amongst a support numbering tens of thousands, but im trying to understand the situation that happened 40 years ago, which is current news as they were all on the pitch at the weekend.

To be fair, I didn’t read it as digging - and it’s not an unfair question. 
 

What is probably true, bearing in mind where they went after, is that the 8 were probably past their best collectively. There’s a debate to be had as to whether the whole situation took it out of them desire wise, but it isn’t as if they were playing below what was probably their level at the time.

I think it also has to be noted that the gap between Division 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 wasn’t the chasm it is now. Once you have downward momentum it’s hard to arrest it, as Wolves also showed shortly thereafter.

The folly of the long contracts has also been covered - and it’s important to note they were well, but not excessively paid. Certainly it wasn’t “don’t work again” money.

I think the broader answer to your question is that if we plummeted with Palmer, Wells, Kalas, Weimann, James etc - well paid experienced players - it’d be more of a case to answer than the “8”, as those players are both paid well enough to never have to work again, and are at clearly a level above the bottom two divisions.

So, I read it as an unfortunate mixture of players all declining together and colossal mismanagement. But there was also never going to be vitriol at Mann, Merrick, Tainton etc in view of club service prior.

I should say here that I was only 4 at the time of the “8”, but from my knowledge of football at the time and reading, the above makes sense.

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The question was the about the record consecutive relegations, they were nothing to do with Cheese, we had 4 years in the top flight without him, bar 1 1/2 games.

It had everything to do with losing Hunter, Collier and Gow. Without them, an injured Merrick and a few others ageing was the perfect storm for the disaster that followed. 

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3 hours ago, myol'man said:

Apart from the initial two weeks pay off and 8th share from the testimonial match, have the 8 ever received another payment from BCFC?

Who benefits from the sale of Ashton Gate 8 merchandise?

It wasn't just a share of the testimonial money. As far as I remember and I'm confident this is correct, although many figures have been bandied around recently. They received a share of £100k raised from the sale of the old club, to BCFC 1982. Not sure if that was equally shared out, or based on contract value and length. I'd imagine Merrick's contract was worth more than Marshalls. They also received monies from a testimonial.  If it was an equal share out, which I doubt, they'd have received £12k each, the equivalent of a large terraced house in Ashton, todays value £500k.  I did hear that Geoff Merrick put his towards a farm in Long Ashton. Trevor Tainton started a business, which sadly failed, Marshall went to Walsall and sadly they also went bust, lucky omen?

At the time I was a self employed Plumbing and heating engineer, earning £50 per week,, although they weren't earning anything like todays money It wasn't bad. Jimmy Mann was earning a basic £300 per week presumably plus bonusses and he was one of the lower paid players, so six times my earnings, possibly £4k to £5k per week in nowadays terms. Though it's difficult and probably unfair to make proper comparisons.

Without meaning to sound ungrateful to those players, there was a reason they never played many games between them after the collapse of the club. I would hazard a guess that it was mostly age related. They were in an awful position of accept the pay off or, 20p in the £ that creditors agreed to and got or, possibly get nothing.

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I in no way mean this in any disparaging way, and fully respect the sacrifice of the Ashton Gate 8....but I was unaware until researching the proceedings that took place, that 5 of the 8 were 30 plus, Gerry Sweeney being 37 and Trevor Tainton was 34.  The average age was 31, it just surprised me that other than Marshall and Aitken, they were all nearing the end of their careers?   Not that that detracts in any way from the validity of their contracts, but it just emphasise's the recklessness of the board in handing out  contracts that were on occasion far too long?     ie  Clive Whitehead..........11 years?

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