Max O’ Leary

[nickolas]

I cant see anyone currently in the bottom 3 getting to 40 pts imo. 
We have more chance of scaring the playoffs than relegation. 
We wont though as we are horrendous at the back. 
Even a game like today where we were as comfortable as weve been all season we managed to concede 2. 
But we are playing decent going forward, so expecting some high scoring games in the last half of the season. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

I honestly believe that Bents won’t be of great interest to Premier League clubs because of his limited ball playing and distribution skills. It’s such a key element in the skill set of all top keepers these days. 

It’s a surprise to me really, because Bents was always decent with his feet, but Brentford got rid of him because they wanted better….David Raya.  As it happens Bents distribution has gone from being pretty good (relative to City) to quite poor.

I don’t think it’s just instruction per se, I think it’s part confidence and part technical.

What we also have to realise that goalkeeping is much more than shot-stopping.

When O’Leary was first picked over Bents I said that we often say Max is a good shot stopper, but he doesn’t command his area, and his kicking gives us the heebie-jeebies at times.  I then questioned - how different is that to Bentley, so why not give Max games.  As it stands his kicking is an upgrade over Bentley’s this season, so for me Max retains the multi-coloured shirt.

Back to being more than shot stopping.  It appears that one of the pre-requisites of a modern day goalie is their proficiency with the ball at their feet…it is felt you can teach the technical bits of keeping.  Harv Wiles-Richards was an outfield player until relatively recently.  Edwin Van der Sar’s beanpole frame wasn’t a worry to Ferguson despite the physical nature of English footie….he wanted the best keeper with his feet.  Teams rarely pressed VDS because he was so good with his feet.

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I like both. 

To be fair to Bentley we had been a very direct side for much of the season with him in goal.

It seems watching how we intend to play now and by what players have said in interviews, and Pearson himself, that we have more recently been changing our approach. 

So I'd have no worries Bentley in goal with playing it out. We did it well with him in goal in the past.

But I would keep O'Leary in goal as he's doing well but we have 2 very good goalies imo. Which Pearson said going into this season.

Some of that change in play is a) part tactics (a change from previously), b) some of it part O’Leary and some of it c) part the return from injury of Semenyo…which also covers a).

2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Nothing against Max, but give me Bentley every day of the week. 

I genuinely think he would’ve saved their second. 

he probably would, but he might have key in some if the shots Max has saved too.  Swings and Roundabouts.

[Ivorguy]

Simples

Max is improving, Bents isn’t.  Guess Nige is looking medium to longer term.  Even possible come next summer a Championship club will come in for Bents, but he is never going to make it now in The Prem, and Max just might, hopefully in four years time with City

[Carey 6]

Was going to mention how good Bentley was distribution wise when at Brentford but @Davefevs beat me to it. 

I’m sure he can play that way if instructed. A lot of people conveniently forgetting us playing out also coincided with Martin being out of the side.

Not so easy to just go long and hope to win the header then, sort of forces you to play a different way. 

Bentley should play in goal.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Carey 6

[SydneyCity]

It’s all about the feet for me. Max is better at playing it out with his feet but also stays on his feet too long when dealing with certain shots. Bents would have flung himself at that second goal and saved it.

Tough decision to make but Max is playing well and, to be honest, I’ve enjoyed watching the football more since he’s been playing.

Max for me, which is surprising as I’ve always been a big supporter of Bents and his ability.

[BCFC OF HUSKVARNA]

Max is fine but Bents is my Keeper!

[Unan]

Going against the grain here but I think Bentley is better with the ball to feet + distribution. He’s been trying to hit statues behind mobile defenders most of this season.

[Malago]

You’re all missing the bigger picture.  Bents is probably on twice (at least) the money of Max, but isn’t twice as good.  Makes financial sense moving Bents on, if we can.

[Red-Robbo]

5 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Nothing against Max, but give me Bentley every day of the week. 

I genuinely think he would’ve saved their second. 

 

Agreed. He seemed rooted to the spot and a piss-weak header just  bounced under his arm.

 

[Dr Balls]

58 minutes ago, Malago said:

You’re all missing the bigger picture.  Bents is probably on twice (at least) the money of Max, but isn’t twice as good.  Makes financial sense moving Bents on, if we can.

As much as there are the questions of who is better with their feet and their distribution, I think that this is the real issue. If Max can do an adequate job, we can afford to sell Bentley and save on wages as well.

Just like the first goal for Millwall was partly because Max was in two minds about coming for a cross, the second Cardiff goal was one that he seemed to realise too late was actually going in. So I think we have to accept he is still learning at this level and looks like he might concede more easily than Bentley. However Bentley as well as making some worldie saves this season that have been as good as scoring a goal, has also dropped the odd clanger from which we have conceded.

I can see the sense in giving Max a run right now because he is either good enough now or in all likelihood he is never going to be good enough for this level. Time will tell but I wouldn’t blame him for conceding 6 against a Fulham side with Mitrovic and Wilson.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Dr Balls

[TBW]

If we are going to move on from Bentley at some point in January or the Summer, O'Leary needs experience ready for next season. I don't think he's putting us in a worse position for relegation right now so give him the spot so he can push on next year.

Also felt he could've positioned himself better for the second but... experience. He'll learn from it and better to learnt that in a season where we're unlikely to go up or down. 

[Malago]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Agreed. He seemed rooted to the spot and a piss-weak header just  bounced under his arm.

 

The point is Max hasn’t cost us.  We haven’t lost a game we should have drawn, or drawn a game we should have won,  because of Max.  The money we can save if we can move Bents on, buys and pays for a decent defender in the post COVID era.

[RobintheRed Red]

7 hours ago, OddBallJim said:

I’m feeling I’m in the minority here, but I’m not convinced on him… yet. 
 

Their second goal looked saveable at the time, and having watched the footage back I would hope he could have done a little better. The ball seems to take an eternity to go in. He seems to also be a bit rooted to his line when crosses come in. 
 

Flip side of it is that he does look very comfortable with the ball at his feet, and can drill the ball with seemingly far more accuracy than Bentley. Plus he has a good long accurate throw out as well. This seems to suit how we want to play better than Bentley’s slow delivery and inevitable long high punt. 
 

In summary… I’m not sure who I’d pick moving forwards (unless Bentley is sold). But certainly don’t think it’s as easy as saying one is clearly better than the other when they each have merits and weaknesses. 

Yes agree both got faults Bentley rooted to his line good shot stopper was disappointed with their second but think Max edges it .

[extonsred]

Have also been Impressed with Max catching the ball n holding onto it in a crowded area - getting more confident in his interventions (yesterday timed his running to corner of penalty area) to perfection. Staying on his line we could have been in big trouble...this is an extra defender role. He's much quicker to sense danger I think. Bentley better in shot stopping, Max better at anticipating dangers. 

[swanker]

10 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Step aside @Davefevs, step forward @swanker.

This actually made me laugh

[swanker]

10 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Exactly what I think - he misjudged it and was trying to see it round the post.

And when it went in he started to have a go go at the defenders, trying shift the blame. His fault all day long and a soft goal to concede. 

[Dr Balls]

4 hours ago, swanker said:

And when it went in he started to have a go go at the defenders, trying shift the blame. His fault all day long and a soft goal to concede. 

To be fair to Max, it wasn’t great defending, and many goalkeepers like to share the blame for conceding a goal where they can I.e. the opposition player should never have been allowed that shot or header in the first place!

[Dr Balls]

4 hours ago, swanker said:

And when it went in he started to have a go go at the defenders, trying shift the blame. His fault all day long and a soft goal to concede. 

Maybe Max should have woken up and saved it before he had a “go go”?!

[City oz]

3 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Maybe Max should have woken up and saved it before he had a “go go”?!

I agree. it was a bloody embarssment. he looked like he just woke up with his hand on his di#@

[City oz]

14 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

13 points needed max from 19 games 

We’ve got 14 points from our last 10 games and 24 points from our last 20. And we are improving. I think we will finish on around 58 points which will be around 12-14 points clear of the bottom 3. 

And around nine points off of six place. That makes me more happier.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

Max blundered on the second, but keepers will at this level, eg see DB against Fulham. Defenders should have done better, we had 4 vs 3 in the middle, but not much pressure on crossing player, plus players looking confused as to whether we were aiming to be zonal or man marking, resulted in HNM’s player peeling off and having an free header (that Max should have dealt with admittedly). Personally see that goal as symptomatic of our biggest challenge, crosses is in open play, rather than a reason to change keepers. 

Ball out to eventual crosser, not much pressure. 4 of ours in the middle vs 3 of theirs. Kalas zonally taking the near post, the other 3 man to man, could be a bit closer?

 

Point the ball is crossed, still no pressure, centrally similar positioning, Jay and Zak risk giving their opponents the run on them? COD and Pring overly focussed on the player nearest the bye line, which is dragging Weimann over towards the crosser. 

 

Cardiff’s 3 players all goal side of our 4, HNM’s player only one to read the flight of the cross and has a free header. Max then makes a meal of it. Cardiff had options as well with Weimann dragged over, Cardiff player free on the edge of the box.

[Sydneybcfc]

To me from the full speed replay it looked like Max thought it was going outside the post, it seemed like one of those "its missing, oh F its not" moments that meant he dived a lot later.

[pongo88]

16 hours ago, RedM said:

I think it would be very harsh on Max to lose his place, what has he done wrong? Very difficult to know if Bentley would have done any differently. 

Yes play your best players but if they are out of form (or broken some rules) then their place is lost until they can force it back.

You could ask what O’Leary has done wrong to deserve losing his place, but the same question could be asked of Bentley. IMO the primary job of a keeper is to save attempts on goal and Bentley is better than O’Leary at this. Throwing the ball out, although important, is secondary. I though the second Cardiff goal was embarrassing. It was a slow motion header and O’Leary didn’t really dive he just fell over as though he’d had a few too many drinks. In theory, it should be simple to get Bentley to stop kicking long. Pearson would just tell him. Perhaps Pearson has been telling Bentley to stop kicking long but he didn’t take any notice so he was dropped 

[Fuber]

11 hours ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

Going against the grain here but I think Bentley is better with the ball to feet + distribution. He’s been trying to hit statues behind mobile defenders most of this season.

Bents passing isn't anywhere near as accurate as Max imo. And the stats back this up massively.

Massive difference in passing and kicking, as a keeper.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

You could ask what O’Leary has done wrong to deserve losing his place, but the same question could be asked of Bentley. IMO the primary job of a keeper is to save attempts on goal and Bentley is better than O’Leary at this. Throwing the ball out, although important, is secondary. I though the second Cardiff goal was embarrassing. It was a slow motion header and O’Leary didn’t really dive he just fell over as though he’d had a few too many drinks. In theory, it should be simple to get Bentley to stop kicking long. Pearson would just tell him. Perhaps Pearson has been telling Bentley to stop kicking long but he didn’t take any notice so he was dropped 

I agree about saving shots, but I think it’s become massively important what they do with the ball too.

He had 24 passes made to him yesterday also.  He only had 5 shots to save.

Re Bentley, I think he got dropped because his kicking / distribution was becoming a huge hindrance. In one game Nige was effing and jeffing about it.  His handling was generally ok.  All keepers will make the odd mistake.

 

 

[Red-Robbo]

8 hours ago, Malago said:

The point is Max hasn’t cost us.  We haven’t lost a game we should have drawn, or drawn a game we should have won,  because of Max.  The money we can save if we can move Bents on, buys and pays for a decent defender in the post COVID era.

 

You need two decent keepers in competition with each other to keep themselves sharp and give the club options. I'm not slating MOL, but I'm not in favour of selling Bentley (unless he wants to go) for that reason.  I'd rather Wells and/or Palmer were offloaded.

Criticising a player for a mistake doesn't mean you think they are shit. Massengo was great for us in that game, but his clanger in the first half led to their goal. 

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

You need two decent keepers in competition with each other to keep themselves sharp and give the club options. I'm not slating MOL, but I'm not in favour of selling Bentley (unless he wants to go) for that reason.  I'd rather Wells and/or Palmer were offloaded.

Criticising a player for a mistake doesn't mean you think they are shit. Massengo was great for us in that game, but his clanger in the first half led to their goal. 

Far too sensible a post.

We now have two capable keepers.  Max has proved he’s a genuine first teamer with this run.  Up to him to keep his place, up to Bentley to keep pushing him.

Its possible Bentley might want to move in the summer…he’s never had to play second fiddle before.  He might accept the challenge and come back better.

[Bodiesaffer]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I agree about saving shots, but I think it’s become massively important what they do with the ball too.

He had 24 passes made to him yesterday also.  He only had 5 shots to save.

Re Bentley, I think he got dropped because his kicking / distribution was becoming a huge hindrance. In one game Nige was effing and jeffing about it.  His handling was generally ok.  All keepers will make the odd mistake.

 

 

This is it for me, are defensive back line look more composed on the ball with Max between the sticks. Distribution is far better with Max in the team. They are are not bother passing it back. I too am not nervous what when it’s played back to Max he’s a footballer that plays in goal. Not just a goalkeeper.  That what we need. We’ve looked far better as a team, keeping the ball.  

[Major Isewater]

7 hours ago, swanker said:

he started to have a go go at the defenders

[The Journalist]

Still feels too early to judge this properly but my instinct is, at the moment at least, Bentley is the better goalkeeper - but we may just be a better team with O’Leary in it.

Edited January 23, 2022 by The Journalist