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Journeyman Defintion


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Journeyman Definition  

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1 minute ago, BCFCGav said:

Can't vote because I think they need to be some of both.

Yeh I think the term does suggest a lower level of player. No one would really refer to Zlatan (9 clubs) as a journeyman. I'd use it to refer specifically to somone who a) played for many clubs but b) never achieved much of note whilst doing so.

But, of the two options presented, the correct answer is clearly a player who has played for many clubs.

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Just now, ExiledAjax said:

Yeh I think the term does suggest a lower level of player. No one would really refer to Zlatan (9 clubs) as a journeyman. I'd use it to refer specifically to somone who a) played for many clubs but b) never achieved much of note whilst doing so.

But, of the two options presented, the correct answer is clearly a player who has played for many clubs.

I would...

1 minute ago, One Team said:

Personally I didn’t think this was a debate. Surely the name itself suggest someone who has moved around a lot to different clubs? 

An average fairly unremarkable player is surely just that? 

Rivaldo, Zlatan... 

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6 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said:

The actual definition is a skilled man who moves around to where his skills are needed.

But the word has been altered a little through use. Same as the word "professional" really means someone who belongs to one of the professions, and as such is held to certain levels of ethics and standards. But the term is now used to just mean "does something for money". Hence we get "professional" footballers.

These words take on a different meaning when used in the context of football.

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21 minutes ago, One Team said:

Personally I didn’t think this was a debate. Surely the name itself suggests someone who has moved around a lot to different clubs? 

An average fairly unremarkable player is surely just that? 

I agree. I've always considered it the first option and never heard anything think its the second option, until now!

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I've always viewed it as a player who has had many clubs, mainly in the lower divisions.

In its literal sense I suppose it could be aimed at any player who has played for numerous clubs, but I see it as a relatively derogative term which I wouldn't apply to players who have had a top class career.

I actually thought everyone saw it the same way as me, apparently not - every day is a school day :yes:

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51 minutes ago, DaveF said:

I agree. I've always considered it the first option and never heard anything think its the second option, until now!

Except just about every dictionary you can find. The first meaning is confined to football fans and is new. A malapropism, but it is gaining traction.

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1 minute ago, Leveller said:

Yes

I know you would @Leveller but I was asking a different poster.

You said only a few football fans would use the term to describe a player of many clubs, currently at 70%. I think it may you in the wrong by underestimating the use of this term in British Football.

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I think there is fault on both sides here.

Pretty ignorant if you don't actually know what it means (average). But equally you have to be pretty stupid to know what it means but not realise that the majority of football fans use it to mean something else (lots of clubs).

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1 hour ago, The Horse With No Name said:

The actual definition is a skilled man who moves around to where his skills are needed.

That is probably the closest 'definition' to the real meaning of the word.

To understand properly, it is necessary to forget any connection to the word 'journey'; for journeyman has its origins in the French word 'Journée', meaning day.

Centuries ago, skilled tradesmen (roofers, brickmasons and the like) would travel throughout France offering their services on a daily basis. 

They were self-employed and skilled, although generally limited to one particular skill - perhaps this is where the suggestion comes from that (in a football sense) they were of limited ability. Once they had finished the job, they would move on to the next town seeking work on a similar basis, i.e. to be paid for a day's work.

So there you are.

A skilled man was paid for his services on a daily basis, a 'journée', hence the term 'journéeman', and one can only assume that the travelling from town to town part has led, in football terms, to the term being applied to a player who has moved around supplying his trade to various employers.   

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28 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Except just about every dictionary you can find. The first meaning is confined to football fans and is new. A malapropism, but it is gaining traction.

But we're discussing it in football terms are we not?

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2 minutes ago, Selred said:

I know you would @Leveller but I was asking a different poster.

You said only a few football fans would use the term to describe a player of many clubs, currently at 70%. I think it may you in the wrong by underestimating the use of this term in British Football.

Not at all. I fully accept that as a fact of etymology; words get misused and gradually the mistake becomes a new meaning. Look at “disinterested”. It doesn’t mean uninterested, but the vast majority on OTIB think it does; if enough people go that way the dictionary definition will eventually change. But at the moment, disinterested actually means unbiased.

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1 minute ago, DaveF said:

But we're discussing it in football terms are we not?

Are we? The word is commonly used to mean “a bit average “ so when someone described Adomah as a journeyman it caused confusion because to many people that’s what it means.

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Just now, Leveller said:

Are we? The word is commonly used to mean “a bit average “ so when someone described Adomah as a journeyman it caused confusion because to many people that’s what it means.

I presume so, as we're on a football forum.

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9 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

That is probably the closest 'definition' to the real meaning of the word.

To understand properly, it is necessary to forget any connection to the word 'journey'; for journeyman has its origins in the French word 'Journée', meaning day.

Centuries ago, skilled tradesmen (roofers, brickmasons and the like) would travel throughout France offering their services on a daily basis. 

They were self-employed and skilled, although generally limited to one particular skill - perhaps this is where the suggestion comes from that (in a football sense) they were of limited ability. Once they had finished the job, they would move on to the next town seeking work on a similar basis, i.e. to be paid for a day's work.

So there you are.

A skilled man was paid for his services on a daily basis, a 'journée', hence the term 'journéeman', and one can only assume that the travelling from town to town part has led, in football terms, to the term being applied to a player who has moved around supplying his trade to various employers.   

And it came to mean “a bit average” because a journeyman was a qualified worker who hadn’t progressed to become a master craftsman.

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