Vyner - scapegoated

[RedNachos]

Already got masses of comments saying "he's not good enough" and the usual bollocks of "league one at best". For the life of me I can't fathom why our fanbase is so bloody keen to write him off.  Last season he took masses of responsibility playing as a sweeper in central midfield, consistently picking passes and allowing a pathway from defence to midfield, and then a transition to attack. Something that ridiculous signings like Lansbury and Brunt didn't do, but no it was our right/centre back who'd only played half a season of Championship football.  This season, he's played in patches, mostly in 3 and done (for me at least) majoritativilley well, but is a scapegoat when we concede a high quality late goal, when the midfield are nowhere to be seen. I'm not saying he's the messiah, but if you didn't know financially we're in deep shit, and can't go out buying a £5m replacement, who, yeah, would probably be an upgrade on Zak, but we don't have these sort of options, so I'm asking why are we rushing to get him out the picture, its not like we're brimming full of better options. Against Luton I'd argue he was our best player, and I really like him in a 3, and even midfield. Again he's not the messiah, but get some perspective please instead of saying you'd never like to see him in a city shirt again.                                         

Edited January 29, 2022 by RedNachos

[Alex_BCFC]

Evening Zak. 

[WECANDO]

But he did f..k up for their 2nd goal.

[Pezo]

He's a good enough squad/utility player at this level but we've been using him as a first team player and he isn't strong enough for that. If we have a defence of 3 Zak Vyners we would conced 3+ every game. If we have a defence of 3 Kalas's we wouldn't concede hardly ever.

[IAmNick]

Think the word scapegoat is in danger of losing all meaning at this point.

Big difference between pointing out mistakes or saying someone isn't good enough with reasons to them being a scapegoat.

[Edgy Red]

I think Zak is a decent player but unfortunately he's not quite Champ standard. If we were using him as a squad player then i would have no complaints but as a first team starter he isn't quite good enough.

I look at players like Joe Edwards and Wes Burns and would put Zak in a similar bracket. 

If he was a regular member of the squad of 18 then i've got no issues but if we are trying to push for the top 10 of the Champ then we need better starters than him.

[nickolas]

Tbf, to keep him away from his near-weekly mistakes in centre defence i would actually play him in cm! However, he aint getting in infront of several other cm’s so hes a bencher for me. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

No.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Hes not a scapegoat because that would be acknowledging he's someone that is misunderstood and blamed for things outside if his control.

Hes none of these things, including being a championship level defender, and should be replaced by someone of higher ability. 

[East Londoner]

He’d probably benefit from being taken out of the firing line a little bit as at the moment every mistake he makes is being punished and that then becomes a confidence issue. Let him get some confidence back away from being crucified for every mistake 

[Southport Red]

3 minutes ago, East Londoner said:

He’d probably benefit from being taken out of the firing line a little bit as at the moment every mistake he makes is being punished and that then becomes a confidence issue. Let him get some confidence back away from being crucified for every mistake 

Liam Fontaine all over again. 

[REDOXO]

Where is Joe Burnell when Zac Vyner needs him!

[RedNachos]

10 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Hes not a scapegoat because that would be acknowledging he's someone that is misunderstood and blamed for things outside if his control.

Hes none of these things, including being a championship level defender, and should be replaced by someone of higher ability. 

And how do you suggest we do that? Checked our finances recently? This reply is exactly my point

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Just now, RedNachos said:

And how do you suggest we do that? Checked our finances recently? This reply is exactly my point

Don't be a ****, you know what I'm getting at. There will be free agents or low cost options better than Zac Vyner ..  I mean what the **** are we paying that cretin Danny Simpson for?

[formerly known as ivan]

30 minutes ago, RedNachos said:

Already got masses of comments saying "he's not good enough" and the usual bollocks of "league one at best". For the life of me I can't fathom why our fanbase is so bloody keen to write him off.  Last season he took masses of responsibility playing as a sweeper in central midfield, consistently picking passes and allowing a pathway from defence to midfield, and then a transition to attack. Something that ridiculous signings like Lansbury and Brunt didn't do, but no it was our right/centre back who'd only played half a season of Championship football.  This season, he's played in patches, mostly in 3 and done (for me at least) majoritativilley well, but is a scapegoat when we concede a high quality late goal, when the midfield are nowhere to be seen. I'm not saying he's the messiah, but if you didn't know financially we're in deep shit, and can't go out buying a £5m replacement, who, yeah, would probably be an upgrade on Zak, but we don't have these sort of options, so I'm asking why are we rushing to get him out the picture, its not like we're brimming full of better options. Against Luton I'd argue he was our best player, and I really like him in a 3, and even midfield. Again he's not the messiah, but get some perspective please instead of saying you'd never like to see him in a city shirt again.                                         

Do you not think when the masses all think the same then maybe it might be right?

[WolfOfWestStreet]

8 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

Liam Fontaine all over again. 

Great comparison.

Initially you might think it's down to confidence but actually the reality is the players level is Scotland. 

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Great comparison.

Initially you might think it's down to confidence but actually the reality is the players level is Scotland. 

Fontaine played over 240 games for us & only lost his confidence in his last year with us, so it’s a really shit comparison, actually.

[DaveF]

1 minute ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Great comparison.

Initially you might think it's down to confidence but actually the reality is the players level is Scotland. 

Hes a pretty tidy footballer, decent with the ball at his feet and can pick a pass.

Cant defend very well though which is a bit of an issue at championship level. Guessing Pearson feels the same by dropping him today.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Fontaine played over 240 games for us & only lost his confidence in his last year with us, so it’s a really shit comparison, actually.

Yeah but was it confidence or did his ability decline? 

Because I'm not doubting LF was a useful player ... but time came when he wasn't and I think that's happening with vyner 

[WolfOfWestStreet]

1 minute ago, DaveF said:

Hes a pretty tidy footballer, decent with the ball at his feet and can pick a pass.

Cant defend very well though which is a bit of an issue at championship level. Guessing Pearson feels the same by dropping him today.

Dave give it a year or two and I absolutely guarantee Vyner will be playing for Motherwell or Hearts 

[BTRFTG]

Just now, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Dave give it a year or two and I absolutely guarantee Vyner will be playing for Motherwell or Hearts 

That high?

[GrahamC]

9 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Yeah but was it confidence or did his ability decline? 

Because I'm not doubting LF was a useful player ... but time came when he wasn't and I think that's happening with vyner 

Confidence, Fontaine was a regular in the squad that made the playoff final (played in the final), then the squad that finished top 10 in the following 2 years.

Whatever anyone thinks of Vyner he hasn’t had that sort of career at all.

Fontaine didn’t bluff it for 4 years in The Championship, he simply lost confidence & went stale after 8 years in total with us.

Edited January 29, 2022 by GrahamC

[And Its Smith]

He’s a good squad player as he can cover many positions, albeit not very well. If he is our 5th choice centre back, 2nd choice right back and 6th choice midfielder then that’s fine.  However, if he needs to start more than say 15 games in a season then we have a problem 

[Fordy62]

A scapegoat (or escape goat ) is someone who’s blamed for the mistakes of others. 

Vyner is blamed for his own mistakes. Yes, Pring gave the ball away, but Vyner’s defending was abhorrent!

[1960maaan]

I rate Vyner, has made mistakes and suffered for a lack of concentration at times, but TBF he's learning his trade in a very poor side that has struggled for form for 2 years. Not only that, but he's played CB, RCB, LB, LWB and DMF all the while trying to bed into the team. There was a spell he played at RCB for a run and looked quality. 
He's talented, good on the ball and has a decent range of passing. Cut out the mistakes (which all of them could be guilty of), improve concentration (again not alone) and minimum he's a valuable squad player.

13 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Do you not think when the masses all think the same then maybe it might be right?

If he's talking about FB groups , then no.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Conference, Fontaine was a regular in the squad that made the playoff final (played in the final), then the squad that finished top 10 in the following 2 years.

Whatever anyone thinks of Vyner he hasn’t had that sort of career at all.

Fontaine didn’t bluff it for 4 years in The Championship, he simply lost confidence & went stale after 8 years in total with us.

Never mentioned the conference so not sure what you're on about there. I don't think Vyner is a good enough player to be employed by our club, if you do that's fine as well.

I'd like it more if he stopped being so shit. 

[GrahamC]

Just now, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Never mentioned the conference so not sure what you're on about there. I don't think Vyner is a good enough player to be employed by our club, if you do that's fine as well.

I'd like it more if he stopped being so shit. 

Autocorrected Confidence & I didn’t notice.

[DaveF]

8 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Dave give it a year or two and I absolutely guarantee Vyner will be playing for Motherwell or Hearts 

I don't disagree. He's not cut out to play CB at championship level but I'm sure he can forge a decent career for himself.

Its a shame as he appears to have the physical but not the mental attributes needed for a championship defender. 

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Just now, DaveF said:

I don't disagree. He's not cut out to play CB at championship level but I'm sure he can forge a decent career for himself.

Its a shame as he appears to have the physical but not the mental attributes needed for a championship defender. 

Yeah no doubt, he a capable player at league one/scottish premier level. Nice lad as well by all accounts.

We need better than Zac Vyners unfortunately and we can't afford them which is a problem. 

[BTRFTG]

On a serious note folks need to take a chill pill on supposed 'scapegoating'.

Courtesy of Ashton & Johnson we've been left with a carousel of players who will never, ever be good enough at Championship level. They also left us with debt such we won't be able to clear them out and replace for a few seasons hence.

Now we all believe City should be punching at the upper end of The Championship, so there's nothing wrong in aspiration stating 'X' or 'Y' isn't good enough or is a plain liability because, er, they are. As soon as we're able to get rid I hope we'll do just that but for now we're stuck with them and their lack of talent. There's nothing wrong in highlighting that. They're Pros, they themselves know they're not up to it.