Chill your beans...!

[GrahamC]

5 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Apparently the last time we had a longer run of consecutive matches conceding two or more goals in each was 1962…

Not true, this run excludes the Fulham cup game where technically we kept a clean sheet.

Just because it was in a different competition is irrelevant.

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, PFree said:

Why get so annoyed when we play the odd bad game and things don’t work? We aren’t going up, we aren’t going, we are a team in transition with a badly balanced, small squad? We have turned a corner generally speaking, haven’t we..?

We were all aware what we were signing up for this season, okay, yes it’s frustrating on times, but this is season one of the three we have been told it is going to take before we start looking upwards again.

Our finances are in a shocking state and it stops us signing quality players.

There are lots of positives if you care to find them, and whilst it’s disappointing, there really is no need for knee-jerk reactions when things don’t go our way.

I enjoy listening to NP’s honesty and am prepared to support his longer term aims...

We’ll get there!

I agree with your basic thrust, however today was not a case of things not working!

This was a case of a poor clearance leading to a goal by an international player and within a minute center backs out jumped from a dead ball.

The team not having the guts for a battle with a big team in crap conditions is what has got under my skin. They looked like they didn’t fancy it from the first goal.
 

The third was inevitable, but to show a left footer inside to roll it past the goalkeeper summed it up. 
 

Williams was the only player that showed noticeable professional pride. As Pearson said the same players make the same mistakes every week and at some point will not be playing, and that is fair enough. That’s how it should work. But to look like 11 year olds that didn’t fancy it in bad conditions after going a goal down is a problem and it’s not bad form to point it out!

Sometimes playing the conditions is needed in February in England as much as playing the opposition but you have to have the guts to do it even if you go a goal down! 

 

 

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Bring selective, let’s remove Fulham.  Why?  Because I want to!

Hear me out though!

16 goals from 8 games against a range of teams and team styles….is not good enough.  So I agree.

We don’t defend as a team.  Pure and simple.

Have we defended as a team this season?  Yes…early on this season in the main, where we ground out results. But lots of fans thought they were boring.

I used my Peterborough analogy, do you want to get 0-0s, 1-1s the odd 1-0, 2-1 win, with similar scoreline defeats….or do you want to try and play football (too much football???) and leave yourself exposed.  Because that’s what Peterborough have done.  When they shut up shop v Bournemouth they got a 0-0.  Got cocky against shitty City and lost 3-2…imho it should’ve been 4/5 for us…they scored two worldys.  And it’s what we’ve done too.  Albeit our Achilles heel since Xmas has been set pieces, having been so good up until then.

There is a balance.  We haven’t found it yet.

Lookimg forward to seeing a game live on Wednesday.  

Taking away the Fulham game...the others were pretty much average teams in this league...which is why conceding so many is awful imo.

Today...NP is quoted as saying it's the same players making the same individual mistakes. Implying afterwards they need to be changed. In other words...he can't improve them and putting the blame on them.

With the transfer market as it is...are we going to be able to replace those players he feels not good enough in the summer. If not...he's stuck with them. What do you do then?

Defensively I'd prefer we set up with a back 4. Imo...it would help. 

 

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

How have we provably improved?

Attacking threat, goals scored, ability to pass the ball, having a plan. Almost every stat associated with attacking or controlling a game has gone up, some have done so drastically.

We have not universally improved. Indeed  arguably elements of our defending have gotten worse. I agree with every word of @spudski's post above about defending crosses. 

However, overall, on average, we are better now. Opponents need to score more than 1 to beat us now...a year ago they could come into a game pretty confident that we'd barely even bother their 'keeper, and so they had had excellent chance of beating us to nil with a single goal. That is not the case now.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Overall poor today, didn’t really stand up to the physical battles, not enough of our players won their individual battles.

Thought HNM came out with real credit today.  That’s about it though.  Pring and Dasilva fought hard I thought.

It will provide Pearson with food for thought.  Can Williams start on Wednesday?  Does Bentley come back in?  Do we go to a back 4?

It’s a disappointing result and performance.  Shit happens.

Not so sure about HNM, thought he was back to his bad old days of great recovery runs due to getting out of position initially. There was one first half when he was way up the field, they had the ball, were clearly going to bypass him but he still went forward a couple of strides, when should have begun to get back in. He then (had to) made a great recovery run, but wasted effort. Thought Jay was pretty much alone in not having concrete 50 pence shaped boots on today, some really nice touches, including for the goal.

Their line of 4 non pressing press was very effective at stopping us play through the thirds, thought maybe both Scott and HNM could have looked to find better positions and back 3 plus Max needed to be a bit braver with their passing out from the back. 

If Vyner had put in Kalas’ performance today he’d been in protective custody by now.

Don’t think Bentley is the answer, but starting to think giving HWR a go might be worth a try, Max really struggles to anticipate what’s going to happen and get his feet moving accordingly. I’ve been a supporter of his, but a few too many saveable goals being conceded. 

All that said, whilst no point thinking we’re top 6 when we play well, equally pointless to think the world’s ending when we play badly, the folk with a ‘City lose > Pearson’s time is up’ flow chart on their bedroom wall are way off in my view. We’re inconsistent and not sure that’s likely to change for a while. Stay up, regroup, move forward. Fine with how we’re progressing currently (progress not being a straight line that means every match is better than the previous one, if nothing else, there are annoying things like opponents to get in the way). 

Edited February 5, 2022 by The Swan and Cemetery

[Clevedon Red]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We don’t defend as a team.  Pure and simple.

That’s just hearsay.

[AshtonGreat]

4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Attacking threat, goals scored, ability to pass the ball, having a plan. Almost every stat associated with attacking or controlling a game has gone up, some have done so drastically.

We have not universally improved. Indeed  arguably elements of our defending have gotten worse. I agree with every word of @spudski's post above about defending crosses. 

However, overall, on average, we are better now. Opponents need to score more than 1 to beat us now...a year ago they could come into a game pretty confident that we'd barely even bother their 'keeper, and so they had had excellent chance of beating us to nil with a single goal. That is not the case now.

Thanks

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Thanks

No worries. 

I hope that at the very least you, like me, are generally finding it a better watch now than a year ago. It's far from perfect, and we need to keep improving, keep developing, but I am optimistic that if we keep our current manager and coaching team then next season will be better than this one.

[REDOXO]

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Bring selective, let’s remove Fulham.  Why?  Because I want to!

Hear me out though!

16 goals from 8 games against a range of teams and team styles….is not good enough.  So I agree.

We don’t defend as a team.  Pure and simple.

Have we defended as a team this season?  Yes…early on this season in the main, where we ground out results. But lots of fans thought they were boring.

I used my Peterborough analogy, do you want to get 0-0s, 1-1s the odd 1-0, 2-1 win, with similar scoreline defeats….or do you want to try and play football (too much football???) and leave yourself exposed.  Because that’s what Peterborough have done.  When they shut up shop v Bournemouth they got a 0-0.  Got cocky against shitty City and lost 3-2…imho it should’ve been 4/5 for us…they scored two worldys.  And it’s what we’ve done too.  Albeit our Achilles heel since Xmas has been set pieces, having been so good up until then.

There is a balance.  We haven’t found it yet.

Lookimg forward to seeing a game live on Wednesday.  

No we don’t defend as a team. You are spot on with that. However Williams being in the middle consistently may alter that somewhat as he just always looks up for it. 
 

Captain material if he can start and stay fit!

[REDOXO]

15 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Not so sure about HNM, thought he was back to his bad old days of great recovery runs due to getting out of position initially. There was one first half when he was way up the field, they had the ball, were clearly going to bypass him but he still went forward a couple of strides, when should have begun to get back in. He then (had to) made a great recovery run, but wasted effort. Thought Jay was pretty much alone in not having concrete 50 pence shaped boots on today, some really nice touches, including for the goal.

Their line of 4 non pressing press was very effective at stopping us play through the thirds, thought maybe both Scott and HNM could have looked to find better positions and back 3 plus Max needed to be a bit braver with their passing out from the back. 

If Vyner had put in Kalas’ performance today he’d been in protective custody by now.

Don’t think Bentley is the answer, but starting to think giving HWR a go might be worth a try, Max really struggles to anticipate what’s going to happen and get his feet moving accordingly. I’ve been a supporter of his, but a few too many saveable goals being conceded. 

All that said, whilst no point thinking we’re top 6 when we play well, equally pointless to think the world’s ending when we play badly, the folk with a ‘City lose > Pearson’s time is up’ flow chart on their bedroom wall are way off in my view. We’re inconsistent and not sure that’s likely to change for a while. Stay up, regroup, move forward. Fine with how we’re progressing currently (progress not being a straight line that means every match is better than the previous one, if nothing else, there are annoying things like opponents to get in the way). 

If Vyner had put in any of their performances he would!

Well done with your comment about HNM. You aren’t normally allowed a comment about him here that doesn’t contain the words millions or Premier League.

What were you saying about protective custody!?

Edited February 5, 2022 by REDOXO

[johnbytheriver]

I have said it before,will say it again Bentley should be in goal! FLapper Max just does'nt cut it for me ! of course he is not solely responsible for today's result.we could  have done with big bakes(sadly i doubt we will see him again)Atkinson and James.is Bentley still on the bus?

[REDOXO]

2 minutes ago, johnbytheriver said:

I have said it before,will say it again Bentley should be in goal! FLapper Max just does'nt cut it for me ! of course he is not solely responsible for today's result.we could  have done with big bakes(sadly i doubt we will see him again)Atkinson and James.is Bentley still on the bus?

Bentley has Covid so for the next two he won’t be around I guess

[Lanterne Rouge]

4 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Bentley has Covid so for the next two he won’t be around I guess

Back training on Monday according to the pre-match.

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Back training on Monday according to the pre-match.

  

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, YCbrs said:

Okay doesn’t sound too bad, I’m not in the Pearson out camp whatsoever - his record in this division is too good and he’s been heavily hampered with finances. 
 

As long as he keeps us up which is looking a lot more likely than a couple of months ago then I think a proper pre season and hopefully get some money for Wells and Palmer which gives him a bit of flexibility in the transfer market, combined with the young lads that have come through this season and cemented themselves (obviously hoping we can keep hold of Semenyo and HNM as well) then a much fairer judgement can be made about his future as our man. 

Thanks for the analysis anyway Dave always helpful from your perspective

It’s only my view, I try not to have an agenda, just post as I see it.  I guess my only “bias” is that I also consider that there are eleven opponents out there too…some just focus on City and don’t appreciate there are 22 players in the pitch.

Today statistics pre-game (and I looked at 20+ different things) showed us to be two even(ish) teams.  We underperformed today, I wouldn’t / couldn’t say anything else.  

18 minutes ago, spudski said:

Taking away the Fulham game...the others were pretty much average teams in this league...which is why conceding so many is awful imo.

Today...NP is quoted as saying it's the same players making the same individual mistakes. Implying afterwards they need to be changed. In other words...he can't improve them and putting the blame on them.

With the transfer market as it is...are we going to be able to replace those players he feels not good enough in the summer. If not...he's stuck with them. What do you do then?

Defensively I'd prefer we set up with a back 4. Imo...it would help. 

 

Yep, far too many goals.

Ultimately, he may be right that he can’t improve them.  What do you do, you ask, you gradually try to change them.  How many do you feel have gone backwards under Nige?  Or have they pretty much performed no better in the past.

Im not picking on Vyner, I actually think he can improve, but has he improved in 18/20 months of first team football at this level?  Maybe he’s peaked, and the mistake games are actually his level, the non-mistake games are just him having a good day at the office.  Just a different way of looking at it?

Id go back 4….but I’ve been saying that QPR (a) when we first went with a back 3 this season.  Lots of reasons too.

17 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Not so sure about HNM, thought he was back to his bad old days of great recovery runs due to getting out of position initially. There was one first half when he was way up the field, they had the ball, were clearly going to bypass him but he still went forward a couple of strides, when should have begun to get back in. He then (had to) made a great recovery run, but wasted effort. Thought Jay was pretty much alone in not having concrete 50 pence shaped boots on today, some really nice touches, including for the goal.

Their line of 4 non pressing press was very effective at stopping us play through the thirds, thought maybe both Scott and HNM could have looked to find better positions and back 3 plus Max needed to be a bit braver with their passing out from the back. 

If Vyner had put in Kalas’ performance today he’d been in protective custody by now.

Don’t think Bentley is the answer, but starting to think giving HWR a go might be worth a try, Max really struggles to anticipate what’s going to happen and get his feet moving accordingly. I’ve been a supporter of his, but a few too many saveable goals being conceded. 

All that said, whilst no point thinking we’re top 6 when we play well, equally pointless to think the world’s ending when we play badly, the folk with a ‘City lose > Pearson’s time is up’ flow chart on their bedroom wall are way off in my view. We’re inconsistent and not sure that’s likely to change for a while. Stay up, regroup, move forward. Fine with how we’re progressing currently (progress not being a straight line that means every match is better than the previous one, if nothing else, there are annoying things like opponents to get in the way). 

As my post, I think Connolly did a job on Scott, and that affected us playing through the lines like we did so well last week.  I’m not one for chopping and changing systems, but as soon as Madine started peeling onto Pring, I would’ve gone back 4, Pring to LB.  What happened was Madine ended up sucking Klose to Pring, and therefore we had 2 marking 1, and therefore it created a free man elsewhere.  A waste of one of them.  3412 / 343 didn’t work today.  I think that caused some of Massengo’s issues, but I still think he was a bright spark today.

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s only my view, I try not to have an agenda, just post as I see it.  I guess my only “bias” is that I also consider that there are eleven opponents out there too…some just focus on City and don’t appreciate there are 22 players in the pitch.

Today statistics pre-game (and I looked at 20+ different things) showed us to be two even(ish) teams.  We underperformed today, I wouldn’t / couldn’t say anything else.  

Yep, far too many goals.

Ultimately, he may be right that he can’t improve them.  What do you do, you ask, you gradually try to change them.  How many do you feel have gone backwards under Nige?  Or have they pretty much performed no better in the past.

Im not picking on Vyner, I actually think he can improve, but has he improved in 18/20 months of first team football at this level?  Maybe he’s peaked, and the mistake games are actually his level, the non-mistake games are just him having a good day at the office.  Just a different way of looking at it?

Id go back 4….but I’ve been saying that QPR (a) when we first went with a back 3 this season.  Lots of reasons too.

As my post, I think Connolly did a job on Scott, and that affected us playing through the lines like we did so well last week.  I’m not one for chopping and changing systems, but as soon as Madine started peeling onto Pring, I would’ve gone back 4, Pring to LB.  What happened was Madine ended up sucking Klose to Pring, and therefore we had 2 marking 1, and therefore it created a free man elsewhere.  A waste of one of them.  3412 / 343 didn’t work today.  I think that caused some of Massengo’s issues, but I still think he was a bright spark today.

I agree...a back 4 would help. However...it's obvious some of these players have massive weaknesses when defending. Vyner and DaSilva in particular. DaSilva offers way more going forward. Defending in front of goal he's a liability. Vyner...too weak mentally and positionally. I think he's found his level. Lower Championship imo. 

Kalas is best imo, when playing in a four. 

As with many...they can all have a blinder, then resort to type. 

 

[maxjak]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, Williams good too, was focussing on the starters.

Williams getting another 45 minutes unscathed was probably the best thing to come out of today?

[Banjo Red]

Nobody wants any manager to fail, time for Lansdown to step up and back Pearson.

[fgrsimon]

3 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Anyone who thinks we might go down is stressing for little reason. If Pearson takes us down from this position then he isn’t the man from us. Need about 7-8 more points from plenty of games

Remember last season.... 

[maxjak]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Anyone know how many goals we've conceded from crosses into the box?

I've never seen a defence so weak at defending crosses.

22 goals conceded in 9 league games is shocking.

It's so easy to score against us...just cross it in, and win your header easily. It's dire. 

For all the good work we do going forward and ' progressing' for the future, there is no point if you can't defend properly.

It'll make it even harder to keep our younger players when others come calling if we continue in this vein.

You can try and persuade the likes of HNM to sign and stay, and give him reasons to stay, but it's a lot harder when you are running your nuts off every game and being let down so often. Why stay?

You can give all the reasons under the sun for giving NP a lot of leeway, but when it comes to defending crosses he needs to sort it...unforgivable at the moment...these players are capable of defending better than that imo.

 

That does concern me the most, HNM and      Semenyo are the most likely to depart in the summer by being tempted away?   It is hard to convince two young ambitious players to stick around when they are not in a team making progress, and have a substandard defence behind them,, constantly letting in soft goals?  If they end up going, it will be the same old story of letting our best players leave, because we cannot fulfill their ambitions.  This season, its only watching HNM,  Scott and Semenyo,  that half the time keeps me going to matches. 

[1960maaan]

Today was my Brother in Laws Birthday present, so we were at the Rugby. Strange , because it kicked of at 2pm I didn't really keep up too much today, so can't comment on the game. 
Just looked at the line up, I think Williams getting 45 minutes it massive. Pearson's favoured set up is 4-3-3, Williams being fit means potentially we can do that. Central Mid of Scott, Massengo and Williams is exciting IMO. 
Not for one minute did I think we were going to win today, I have last year as a , " get to know me" for Nige and the Squad. This year we have the young ones bursting through, this coming Summer is the real start of the transformation. 
Everyone fit and I'd say 3 or 4 players away from a very decent team.

[And Its Smith]

9 minutes ago, fgrsimon said:

Remember last season.... 

last season where we got 12 points from the last 16 games?  Similar would make us very safe indeed

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Apparently the last time we had a longer run of consecutive matches conceding two or more goals in each was 

Edited February 5, 2022 by The Dolman Pragmatist

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Not true, this run excludes the Fulham cup game where technically we kept a clean sheet.

Just because it was in a different competition is irrelevant.

Ah, that’s all right then.

[GrahamC]

Just now, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Ah, that’s all right then.

Of course it’s not, the run of conceding so many in the league is really poor, but one game in the middle can’t be excluded just because it doesn’t fit the narrative.

I’m not the only one who has been posting this but all of those saying we needed a striker in January were looking at the wrong end of the pitch.

It is a big ask for Klose to play a lot of games after not doing at all since last May, we need Tanner & Atkinson back as options ASAP, but in the interim need to find a way of defending better with what we have available to us, including Cundy & Simpson if necessary.

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Of course it’s not, the run of conceding so many in the league is really poor, but one game in the middle can’t be excluded just because it doesn’t fit the narrative.

I’m not the only one who has been posting this but all of those saying we needed a striker in January were looking at the wrong end of the pitch.

It is a big ask for Klose to play a lot of games after not doing at all since last May, we need Tanner & Atkinson back as options ASAP, but in the interim need to find a way of defending better with what we have available to us, including Cundy & Simpson if necessary.

Definitely time to change the keeper too unfortunately. 22 goals conceded in 8 league games demands it. Communication, shot stopping and taking high balls are all things that need to be done in addition to playing the ball around nicely as the sweeper keeper. Tbf Pearson has given him a proper go to see where Max is in his progression and it seems that not enough of his game is where we need it to be at right now. It's not about blaming him for every single goal he concedes.....defenders want and need a presence behind them.

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Definitely time to change the keeper too unfortunately. 22 goals conceded in 8 league games demands it. Communication, shot stopping and taking high balls are all things that need to be done in addition to playing the ball around nicely as the sweeper keeper. Tbf Pearson has given him a proper go to see where Max is in his progression and it seems that not enough of his game is where we need it to be at right now. It's not about blaming him for every single goal he concedes.....defenders want and need a presence behind them.

I agree.  I do like that Max’s distribution, and on Bentley’s current form it is an upgrade.  But I also said I think some of the reasons for our improved performances was Semenyo (which also allowed Martin to rest too).

Several posters have said it’s only about shot saving.  I’ve disagreed with that.  He hasn’t made many (any?) big mistakes that have led to goals. But…

…is he giving confidence, organisation, communication, etc?  You can’t tell that from Robinstv.

My issue is still - does Bentley improve us?

My but feel is yes.  Therefore I recall Bentley (subject to Covid) on Wednesday.

Its a bit wise after the event, but what are you supposed to do…form an initial opinion and never change it?
 

[IAmNick]

47 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

She, and i think you may need to re think your piss poor vendetta by continuing to be a total bell end seeing as the post noted  the following. 

"Beaten by 2 or 3 too many times? You're kidding right? Of our 14 losses this season, 3 have been by 2 goals, 2 by 3 goals, and one by 4 (Fulham). The other 8 have been by a single goal. So more often than not, if we lose, its by 1 goal." 

That's six out of 14. Or 42.85 (was being kind and rounded down percent) 

Perhaps try again? 

He in my post being @ExiledAjax who is the one that posted how many times we'd been beaten?

You said:  

3 hours ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Your presentation of stats there shows that 42.8 % of our losses are by more than two goals 

Which is all I was commenting on.

You said more than two. In his stats, only 3 games were more than 2. 3 of 14 is around 21%, as I said. The other 3 were by 2 which you mistakenly included in your calculation.

You can easily check for yourself here for example: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/182/Fixtures/England-Bristol-City 

I'm confused how that makes me a bell end? I wasn't rude to you at all.

Edited February 5, 2022 by IAmNick

[The Constant Rabbit]

3 hours ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Im very probably wrong, but I think that we're nearing end times for NP. 

Sad as it will be to many on here, I think the win vs Cardiff will have given some leeway, but today's performance is just like multiple other performances we've had this season where defensively we've fallen to bits. 

I loved last week, genuinely awesome game to see, however its not enough its not good enough and were getting beaten by 2 or 3 goals sometimes far to often. Changes dont happen and the same mistakes tactically are repeated over and over. 

I understand the whole it's a project and but, we're skint discussions. However with the window shut and showing a loss of form again. It maybe time to act, especially considering relative safety. 

As we come up to the anniversary of Dean Holdens departure also following a home game to Reading then it may well be win or bust. 

We were 13th when Holden was sacked https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11726/12220411/dean-holden-bristol-city-sack-head-coach-after-six-months-in-charge-of-championship-club. 

We're 17th and in a poor run with Reading to come. 

Must Win Wednesday then. I fear 

Your agenda won't get hidden just because you have transitioned from 'RalphMilnesleftfoot'

You have been anti-Pearson since he signed Simpson, which triggered something about your personal life - and you have viewed Pearson through that prism ever since.

If he upsets you that much - take a break from City.

Changing your username and carrying on with the same guff makes you seem very petty and vindictive.

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

Your agenda won't get hidden just because you have transitioned from 'RalphMilnesleftfoot'

You have been anti-Pearson since he signed Simpson, which triggered something about your personal life - and you have viewed Pearson through that prism ever since.

If he upsets you that much - take a break from City.

Changing your username and carrying on with the same guff makes you seem very petty and vindictive.

I’m surprised that someone who was so vehement about TomF deleting their OTIB profile, data privacy, GDPR etc, when leaving this forum has come back?

I’m assuming Prinny, who left OTIB because of his stance on Simpson / Pearson, has remained away.  Although I do wonder about one poster .  Assuming they’re not back, I respect that.

I only see their posts, because people quote them.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Davefevs