Ipswich

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

17 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

How you can be that patronising against your own club astounds me. You would seriously be better off following Ipswich if that diatribe is the way you feel about it. In addition mocking people for not travelling three and a half hours and paying £40 to get in is a bit much too, in fact it’s out of order.

Its pretty accurate though.

Edited February 13, 2022 by The Dolman Pragmatist

[CiderCraig]

13 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Only clubs that at some point in their history have been truly successful at the top level (ie not grim struggles against relegation from the top, and not promotions from L1 and Sherpa Van cups) have that level of interest, and that quality of tradition, handed down from one generation to the next, regardless of current status and regardless of the number of years since their glory days.

We're not in that category of club and never will be. No-one outside of Bristol remembers our Anglo-Scottish cup win, except for Alec Ferguson. 

Well, that's TWO then, cos Alex Ferguson probably does, too!

[cidercity1987]

9 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

All I'm saying is that Ipswich are a "great" club in English football, and we are not. It's only the "great" clubs that can muster a following like this when they are relatively shite, by their standards. 

When Ipswich got to the top division, they achieved "great" things, great civic pride was fostered, great crowds attended. A tradition was laid down, and traditions in football tend to endure. Ipswich were even admired and respected far beyond their local area.

When we got to the top division for the only time in living memory, we were "workmanlike" and battled against relegation for three of the four seasons. No-one outside of Bristol remembers that team, less still admired it. It was a team, like all Bristol City teams, only Bristol City fans could love.

Like the Freight Sherpa Johnson Paintball Trophy, the Anglo-Scottish cup did nothing for "civic pride," and nothing for our away following 40 years later.

We are a club with a "big day out" away following, taking 25,000 to Coventry in 1977, a bit more than Rovers took to Anfield in 94, 9000 to Forest in 89, 8000 to Man City in 2018, 5000 to Sheffield Wednesday when on a record breaking club run, 5000 to MK Don's when running away at the top of the table (how many went to Bradford the night we were promoted though?) or 42,000 to Wembley.

Get to the Prem and play Burnley on a Monday night though, how many go to that? There'll be room on Coach 2, and you know it.

We have our tradition, but it's a smallish club tradition, a Division 3/Division 2/Division 3 tradition, "big day out/ up-for-the-cup big following" - nothing to be ashamed of given our modest/pathetic record over 100 years but never going to be like yer Wolves, yer Pompeys, yer (clubs that won something big once and so mean something to their local area).

In the 1970s and early 80s, little boys around the country wore Ipswich kits and pretended to be Terry Butcher, Arnold Muhren and Paul Mariner; no little boys beyond Bristol ever wore that Umbro City shirt and pretended to be David Rogers, Gueert Meijer or Tom Ritchie, sadly. We're just not in that league of historic, heritage, aristocratic clubs, unfortunately, and so we'll only ever take 6,850 to an away league game the day we get promoted to the Prem (just so long as it's a weekend game not midweek, and not too far north of Birmingham or east of London, or they charge the sort of money Sheffield Wednesday wanted that day in 2015 and everyone decided it was too much).

 

How many do you think 'yer' Pompey's or 'yer' Ipswich's would take to Burnley on a Monday night? Absolutely off your head if you think it would be much different to our support in the same circumstances 

[TheCerneAbbasGiant]

Some fans support teams that are successful wherever they live and don’t support their local team. This happened to Ipswich in the 70s and early 80s and others over time. If Ipswich don’t get back to the Prem and do well, this fan base will gradually disappear. Same for other similar clubs. When we get to the Prem and stay there, we will get more support outside of the local area. Then the ticket prices rise and we can’t afford to go….

Edited February 13, 2022 by TheCerneAbbasGiant

[cidercity1987]

I must also have missed Ipswich's mega crowds last time they were in the Champ. Less than ours in actual fact

Edited February 13, 2022 by cidercity1987

[Pezo]

11 minutes ago, TheCerneAbbasGiant said:

Some fans support teams that are successful wherever they live and don’t support their local team. This happened to Ipswich in the 70s and early 80s and others over time. If Ipswich don’t get back to the Prem and do well, this fan base will gradually disappear. Same for other similar clubs. When we get to the Prem and stay there, we will get more support outside of the local area. Then the ticket prices rise and we can’t afford to go….

It's the same as teams like Leeds and Notts Forest. They must have interesting demographics with loads of fans all over the country that are 50 and older and then the numbers must fall quite dramatically in the 40's and below ranges.

[Pezo]

10 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

All I'm saying is that Ipswich are a "great" club in English football, and we are not. It's only the "great" clubs that can muster a following like this when they are relatively shite, by their standards. 

When Ipswich got to the top division, they achieved "great" things, great civic pride was fostered, great crowds attended. A tradition was laid down, and traditions in football tend to endure. Ipswich were even admired and respected far beyond their local area.

When we got to the top division for the only time in living memory, we were "workmanlike" and battled against relegation for three of the four seasons. No-one outside of Bristol remembers that team, less still admired it. It was a team, like all Bristol City teams, only Bristol City fans could love.

Like the Freight Sherpa Johnson Paintball Trophy, the Anglo-Scottish cup did nothing for "civic pride," and nothing for our away following 40 years later.

We are a club with a "big day out" away following, taking 25,000 to Coventry in 1977, a bit more than Rovers took to Anfield in 94, 9000 to Forest in 89, 8000 to Man City in 2018, 5000 to Sheffield Wednesday when on a record breaking club run, 5000 to MK Don's when running away at the top of the table (how many went to Bradford the night we were promoted though?) or 42,000 to Wembley.

Get to the Prem and play Burnley on a Monday night though, how many go to that? There'll be room on Coach 2, and you know it.

We have our tradition, but it's a smallish club tradition, a Division 3/Division 2/Division 3 tradition, "big day out/ up-for-the-cup big following" - nothing to be ashamed of given our modest/pathetic record over 100 years but never going to be like yer Wolves, yer Pompeys, yer (clubs that won something big once and so mean something to their local area).

In the 1970s and early 80s, little boys around the country wore Ipswich kits and pretended to be Terry Butcher, Arnold Muhren and Paul Mariner; no little boys beyond Bristol ever wore that Umbro City shirt and pretended to be David Rogers, Gueert Meijer or Tom Ritchie, sadly. We're just not in that league of historic, heritage, aristocratic clubs, unfortunately, and so we'll only ever take 6,850 to an away league game the day we get promoted to the Prem (just so long as it's a weekend game not midweek, and not too far north of Birmingham or east of London, or they charge the sort of money Sheffield Wednesday wanted that day in 2015 and everyone decided it was too much).

 

I think you might be overplaying how ingrained the support gets.

They've played recent games where the whole attendance was lower than what they just took away as a big day out e.g. Burton 3766, Cheltenham 4736, Accrington 2600.

Don't get me wrong they have a great history and I have a lot of respect for that history but it is history and this was there big day out. We shouldn't try and paint it as anything else IMHO.

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Its pretty accurate though.

Most of it may be but don't you find it odd that someone has taken probably half an hour minimum out of their day to write a long winded diatribe that doesn't do much else than patronise the club they purport to support? I can guarantee that some of you people, if you had the manager in charge that you want, would be more inclined to stick up for the club a bit but that's obviously not the case so it increases the inclination to stick the boot in to the club whenever possible. Mocking the club's support because people were not prepared to travel three hours and pay £40 is just plain odd in my opinion although you think it's pretty accurate I assume?

Edited February 13, 2022 by Numero Uno

[Andy082005]

6 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Most of it may be but don't you find it odd that someone has taken probably half an hour minimum out of their day to write a long winded diatribe that doesn't do much else than patronise the club they purport to support? I can guarantee that some of you people, if you had the manager in charge that you want, would be more inclined to stick up for the club a bit but that's obviously not the case so it increases the inclination to stick the boot in to the club whenever possible. Mocking the club's support because people were not prepared to travel three hours and pay £40 is just plain odd in my opinion although you think it's accurate don't you?

Yeah I don’t get some people on here. Always criticising 

[Numero Uno]

38 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

I must also have missed Ipswich's mega crowds last time they were in the Champ. Less than ours in actual fact

Yeah, you missed it because "yer Ipswich's" have that "quality of tradition" whatever the **** that is meant to mean that sees them attract huge numbers such as 14-16K for an "average" home game when they are ooooh let's say............16th in the Championship.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Numero Uno

[Numero Uno]

8 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Yeah I don’t get some people on here. Always criticising 

It's one thing to knock the Manager, the Ownership or the performance but why knock the fans, the history or the support and only do it, in some cases, because the current Manager pisses you off?

Edited February 13, 2022 by Numero Uno

[italian dave]

13 minutes ago, Pezo said:

I think you might be overplaying how ingrained the support gets.

They've played recent games where the whole attendance was lower than what they just took away as a big day out e.g. Burton 3766, Cheltenham 4736, Accrington 2600.

Don't get me wrong they have a great history and I have a lot of respect for that history but it is history and this was there big day out. We shouldn't try and paint it as anything else IMHO.

Yeah, but was Bakinson playing for them then……that’s the difference

[Andy082005]

3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It's one thing to knock the club, the Manager, the Ownership or the performance but why knock the fans, the history or the support and only do it, in some cases, because the current Manager pisses you off?

Agree with you. I love our fan base, and some of the followings this season, with the performance levels and the current financial issues many face, has been outstanding 

I do genuinely believe the cost of living plays a big part in us not having a much larger away following week on week. I would love to go more often but simply cannot afford to do it whilst trying to live in this City 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

17 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Most of it may be but don't you find it odd that someone has taken probably half an hour minimum out of their day to write a long winded diatribe that doesn't do much else than patronise the club they purport to support? I can guarantee that some of you people, if you had the manager in charge that you want, would be more inclined to stick up for the club a bit but that's obviously not the case so it increases the inclination to stick the boot in to the club whenever possible. Mocking the club's support because people were not prepared to travel three hours and pay £40 is just plain odd in my opinion although you think it's pretty accurate I assume?

I didn’t read it as mocking, but we should be under no illusions about the extent of our underachievement in the past 40 years.  I have great admiration for our fans who travel, but really we should have being doing better since 1980.

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

How you can be that patronising against your own club astounds me. You would seriously be better off following Ipswich if that diatribe is the way you feel about it. In addition mocking people for not travelling three and a half hours and paying £40 to get in is a bit much too, in fact it’s out of order.

Didn't intend to antagonise, just a bit of a late night ramble in an attempt to say why we wouldn't take a following like that were we midtable in L1 and/or some way below our "natural" place in the pyramid. As I see it.

It's an anti "we're by far the greatest team, the world has ever seen" "we're massive" point of view. I don't see it as "patronising," just telling it "like it is," or as it is to me.

We're just not that into Bristol City, the way some other fans at certain other clubs are into their clubs, because, in my opinion, unlike them we have been spectacularly unsuccessful for 99% of our history, and so we shouldn't compare ourselves to clubs with great followings (which I think some might, reading Graham's OP, and possibly feel bad about ourselves, Ipswich being "beneath" us these days, a mere L1 club, and a bit of a "thing" to some currently due to MA).

[Numero Uno]

14 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Agree with you. I love our fan base, and some of the followings this season, with the performance levels and the current financial issues many face, has been outstanding 

I do genuinely believe the cost of living plays a big part in us not having a much larger away following week on week. I would love to go more often but simply cannot afford to do it whilst trying to live in this City 

100%..........in the circumstances this year, given the ridiculous inconsistency in performances, the awful news re: FFP off the field, fans KNOWING that 14th-18th is our bag I think the backing from the stands has been phenomenal on the whole. I can think of a lot bigger clubs than us (the Basket Case that just sacked Johnson for one) where there would have been uproar, mutiny and fan demonstrations not the equivalent of S82 getting right behind the lads every week.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Numero Uno

[h hills left shoe]

13 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Agree with you. I love our fan base, and some of the followings this season, with the performance levels and the current financial issues many face, has been outstanding 

I do genuinely believe the cost of living plays a big part in us not having a much larger away following week on week. I would love to go more often but simply cannot afford to do it whilst trying to live in this City 

Totally agree with that. Well said. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

30 minutes ago, Pezo said:

I think you might be overplaying how ingrained the support gets.

 

Yes, perhaps. But I maintain that the "tradition" in Ipswich of going to support the club (especially away) is stronger there than it is in Bristol. Even after all this time. And my theory for why this is so is that Ipswich won shiny silver cups in the 60s, 70s and 80s, cups that every club in the country - Liverpool, Manchester United, every club - wanted to win (ie not the Sherpa Van or L1 title), and they were regularly on Match of the Day playing attractive, winning football. 

Meanwhile, we were mostly bobbing between Div 3 and Div 2 (not scoring many goals in the latter).

That tradition, of "going to the match," of going away "with the boys," is more ingrained, even now, in Ipswich, than it is here. Our equivalent of Ipswich to MK, a trip of about 100 miles I think, and a huge away end, could be Coventry. We take a good following there, certainly, but not 6000. 

I'm not mocking anyone for that, merely trying to point out the difference between a club like ours, and clubs with greater success in their past.

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Yes, perhaps. But I maintain that the "tradition" in Ipswich of going to support the club (especially away) is stronger there than it is in Bristol. Even after all this time. And my theory for why this is so is that Ipswich won shiny silver cups in the 60s, 70s and 80s, cups that every club in the country - Liverpool, Manchester United, every club - wanted to win (ie not the Sherpa Van or L1 title), and they were regularly on Match of the Day playing attractive, winning football. 

Meanwhile, we were mostly bobbing between Div 3 and Div 2 (not scoring many goals in the latter).

That tradition, of "going to the match," of going away "with the boys," is more ingrained, even now, in Ipswich, than it is here. Our equivalent of Ipswich to MK, a trip of about 100 miles I think, and a huge away end, could be Coventry. We take a good following there, certainly, but not 6000. 

I'm not mocking anyone for that, merely trying to point out the difference between a club like ours, and clubs with greater success in their past.

I’m not sure about that really. Ipswich is a small town, it’s not a Manchester or Liverpool. 

I’ve noticed when a Championship sized club (ourselves included) is in L1, they usually have a few anomaly huge away followings - 1 or 2 a season.

I remember is taking thousands to Forest in 06 or 07, Sheffield Wednesday around that time and MK Dons in 2015. It’s usually if you get given a large capacity. 

Ipswich probably do have more passive support in the country (ie people who look out for the results but don’t actively follow) than we do on account of their history - but I think we as a club are pretty unique in terms of potential.

We’re a large and affluent city who have historically underachieved with no other big teams for miles around. As shown with Wembley support (a very good barometer) and the regular 22k+ crowds pre-pandemic - the numbers are there. 

[lenred]

6 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Yes, perhaps. But I maintain that the "tradition" in Ipswich of going to support the club (especially away) is stronger there than it is in Bristol. Even after all this time. And my theory for why this is so is that Ipswich won shiny silver cups in the 60s, 70s and 80s, cups that every club in the country - Liverpool, Manchester United, every club - wanted to win (ie not the Sherpa Van or L1 title), and they were regularly on Match of the Day playing attractive, winning football. 

Meanwhile, we were mostly bobbing between Div 3 and Div 2 (not scoring many goals in the latter).

That tradition, of "going to the match," of going away "with the boys," is more ingrained, even now, in Ipswich, than it is here. Our equivalent of Ipswich to MK, a trip of about 100 miles I think, and a huge away end, could be Coventry. We take a good following there, certainly, but not 6000. 

I'm not mocking anyone for that, merely trying to point out the difference between a club like ours, and clubs with greater success in their past.

It’s circumstantial imho. Saturday in February with not a lot else on (especially in Ipswich I’d imagine), team going for the play offs, plentiful tickets against a localish rival also battling right up there.  Last two seasons we were in the same division as Ipswich, our away support average was almost identical with us ‘winning’ one season and them the other.  Yes they have better history but history is just that. I’d say we’re pretty comparable in a lot of ways (unfortunately including having that smarmy ***t in charge!) as clubs.  
Not that it matters one iota of course!! 

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Aah, the old how many did we take to Bradford question pops up again. How many did we take to Preston three days earlier. Of course everyone should have a super well paid job like you and travel everywhere…..

God it’s so tedious how people choose to ignore that Preston match, a game where we were in with a shout of promotion and we took 2600 up there.

Drew, didn’t get promoted, then people criticise us for ‘only’ taking 900 all the way up to Bradford 3 days later on a Tuesday night where, once again, promotion wasn't guaranteed.. especially against a good Bradford side.

Personally I think 900 people being able to swing 2 days off work to travel 4 hours up the country on the off chance of promotion back to a division we’ve spent most of our history in is a decent effort.

11 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Yes, sir. I know. When we were winning every week. How many went the season before that, or the season after? How many will go next time? Add them all up, then divide by 4 and you've got a more realistic idea of our away following.

That gives us an average attendance at MK Dons of 2766 travelling City fans.

I don’t think that’s bad for a club like ours? 

 

[Bris Red]

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

Some bizzarre comments here . Mk is a big ground and is one of the closest to Ipswich . Saying our support is rubbish yet we are space limited on many away grounds that are reasonable travelling distance . Why anyone wants to keep knocking out club is rather beyond me . We are what we are . 

Indeed. An odd thread altogether really, the weird obsession with Ipswich is rather baffling. Similar to the obsession with LJ mind you, some fans just can’t seem to let things go. Odd individuals..!

[Bristol Oil Services]

10 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Go check out the Ipswich away following last time in the Championship . I get what you are trying to say but the facts don’t match the theory in the case of Ipswich. 

My point isn't only about Ipswich, it's wider than that. Please put the numbers up on here though. The "last time" they were in the Championship they were relegated. Let's put our away numbers up from 2012/13 if we're doing that.

[Bristol Oil Services]

30 minutes ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said:

God it’s so tedious how people choose to ignore that Preston match, a game where we were in with a shout of promotion and we took 2600 up there.

Drew, didn’t get promoted, then people criticise us for ‘only’ taking 900 all the way up to Bradford 3 days later on a Tuesday night where, once again, promotion wasn't guaranteed.. especially against a good Bradford side.

Personally I think 900 people being able to swing 2 days off work to travel 4 hours up the country on the off chance of promotion back to a division we’ve spent most of our history in is a decent effort.

That gives us an average attendance at MK Dons of 2766 travelling City fans.

I don’t think that’s bad for a club like ours? 

 

Two days off work? For an away game, in England? 

 

 

[Ring]

13 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Actually, it was great to see while searching for that Osman image, you can buy this merch:

 

Shouldn’t that say “we can get a 0-0 draw from this”?

[Bristol Oil Services]

36 minutes ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said:

 

That gives us an average attendance at MK Dons of 2766 travelling City fans.

I don’t think that’s bad for a club like ours? 

 

I don't, no. It's not bad. For a club like ours.

We do, "travel well," around much of the south of this country.

My point is just that some other clubs "travel" in greater numbers and further than we tend to for, amongst other things, the tradition of many years making originating in years when they were gloriously successful in a way we never have been.

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

5 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Two days off work? For an away game, in England? 

Tuesday night 4 hours away?

I personally would but then I take my job quite seriously and don’t want to lose it as a result of making a mistake after only 2 hours sleep. I suppose it depends what you do. At least 1 day off, possibly at short notice, would be necessary for most.

Doesn’t really change my point much.

5 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

My point is just that some other clubs "travel" in greater numbers and further than we tend to for, amongst other things, the tradition of many years making originating in years when they were gloriously successful in a way we never have been.

Oh I agree.

Clubs like Leeds, Sheffield Weds and Forest all have supporters clubs around the country. Two recent incidents involving Leeds fans at Ashton Gate involved a father and son from Cornwall and a guy who bounced down the Dolman stairs on his head from Plymouth.

Whilst neither were in the away end it suggests that they would’ve been had the allocation not sold out, a sell out which no doubt included other South West based Leeds fans.

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I didn’t read it as mocking, but we should be under no illusions about the extent of our underachievement in the past 40 years.  I have great admiration for our fans who travel, but really we should have being doing better since 1980.

I was mocking the Sheffield Wednesday "it's too much!" thing from 2015, to be fair.

Because that one game highlights the difference, in my opinion, between us and the clubs with the serious away followings that we know we don’t have but secretly wish we did. 

It was amusing following that thread on here, as people found what they really wanted - a valid reason not to be bothered to go through the ball ache of going all that bloody way, just to watch Bristol City. 

There was another thread about an away game a few years ago, Reading or somewhere, with people moaning about the difficulty of parking. The inconvenience of going away. Made me chuckle.

To me, going away is about devotion, it's about what you are prepared to endure and suffer in order to follow and back your team in often unwelcoming circumstances. It has connotations of religious devotion about it. As I see it.

This is why yer rotund northerner from Newcastle, Sheffield or Leeds will travel here, midweek, taking "two days off work" if necessary, in the depths of winter, and stand, not sit, in the freezing cold not wearing a shirt. What he is saying is: "look at me you soft southern shite! Look how far I've come! Look how much I love my club! Look how much passion I've got! Look how much passion we've got! Look at us! You're not as loyal/tough/great/passionate as we are!"

Following a football club involves a lot of suffering, going away even more so - suffering boredom, inconvenience, great expense, time, hostility, frustration, crushing disappointment and so on - and some clubs' fans are willing to go to greater lengths and endure greater suffering, to back their team, than other clubs' fans.

We have a couple of hundred heroic sufferers that do 40 plus games a season, but other clubs have more, in large part due to their historic record of much greater success than we have managed.

We all know this. 

It's not "bad" or anything other than what we decide to say it is. It just is!

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I’m not sure about that really. Ipswich is a small town, it’s not a Manchester or Liverpool. 

I’ve noticed when a Championship sized club (ourselves included) is in L1, they usually have a few anomaly huge away followings - 1 or 2 a season.

I remember is taking thousands to Forest in 06 or 07, Sheffield Wednesday around that time and MK Dons in 2015. It’s usually if you get given a large capacity. 

Ipswich probably do have more passive support in the country (ie people who look out for the results but don’t actively follow) than we do on account of their history - but I think we as a club are pretty unique in terms of potential.

We’re a large and affluent city who have historically underachieved with no other big teams for miles around. As shown with Wembley support (a very good barometer) and the regular 22k+ crowds pre-pandemic - the numbers are there. 

Ipswich are 9th in L1 and had a crowd of 29,000 the other week, and took 6,800 away yesterday. That's not happening here any time soon (not even a division higher) and there's a distinct and quantative difference between the "tradition" here and the "tradition" there. For good reasons, one of which I have outlined already.

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

13 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

This is why yer rotund northerner from Newcastle, Sheffield or Leeds will travel here, midweek, taking "two days off work" if necessary,

That really irked you didn’t it? 

Sorry, I should’ve said I was talking from a personal viewpoint of what I’d have to do and that not everyone will be the same. Is that better for you?