Of course it all evens out..

[Dan Robin]

13 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Have you ever watched Alex Scott play? Goes down easier than a whore's knickers.

Rare episodes involving him and Semenyo don't mean much, especially when you compare our players to the trend of other teams (see Reading's constant diving in the recent match), and in Scott's case, being phisically weaker than many of his opponents is a thing to consider.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Dan Robin

[GrahamC]

Just now, ExiledAjax said:

I'm just very aware that I only see City, and I see it all through very red-tinted glasses. Without forensically analysing every other teams penalty calls and penalty rates it's really hard to say that we have an issue.

Notwithstanding that I agree we should have had one today, plus the others you mentioned in your OP.

Surely though it is pretty odd we have been awarded just one (at Coventry, when their bloke basically rugby tackled COD) & not 5 others, isn’t it?
A rate of only 16% correct decisions?

I left off the 2 shouts at Preston because I felt both were more marginal, but law of averages you would get one of those as well.

[Alex_BCFC]

A few claims today for both teams but thought ref was spot on and waved them all away. Until Semenyo came in we had no pace so it’s no surprise we don’t win many - we will soon though I think. 

[Midred]

I don't think our players "cheat" any more than any other team's players but I've said before certain players get a reputation for "winning" penalties and it appears that alot of referees are programmed to award them the penalties. Are all Ronaldo's penalties honestly won ? I imagine that he wins 75 percent of his claims.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Midred

[Dan Robin]

44 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Hang on. Hang on.

Are people genuinely suspicious that there could be a cabal of second division referees organising to ensure that Bristol City never get a penalty, and in doing so are possibly benefiting from some sort of insider info or betting ring? 

Some years ago, thousands of Italian football fans thought that having suspects about referees was a laughable idea. Then Calciopoli arrived.

Like I said, I guess it's improbable that someone (in the FA, clubs, etc.) want to damage our club for ''sports reasons'', but like a player bets on matches for his own economical advantage, is it so unrealistic to think that some referees could do the same (not only in our matches)?  Only making assumptions, obviously. I still want to think that there is nothing dirty going on, but I can't rule out anything, given the amount of money and interests in football.

Anyway, the negative trend against City remains, so maybe creating a video dossier with all the episodes against City and send it to the FA/EFL/Refs Association could at least make the referees a little more concentrated/equal during our future matches.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Dan Robin

[shelts]

Who’d be a referee

[firstdivision]

19 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

A few claims today for both teams but thought ref was spot on and waved them all away. Until Semenyo came in we had no pace so it’s no surprise we don’t win many - we will soon though I think. 

The Swansea defender trod on Semenyo’s foot as he moved forward, causing him to fall. It was a clear albeit unfortunate (from a Swansea point of view) penalty.

[Harry]

2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

There are quite a few reasons we aren't getting penalties at the moment:

We rarely have the majority of possession;

We don't have the personnel with courage or skill to attack players at pace;

Our players have poor touch and close control when in possession;

We've a known bunch of 'cheats' who in all areas of the park either look to go down or do fall over at the faintest of touches - it fools nobody, they've developed a reputation and when they are occasionally fouled their reputation precedes them, hence don't get as they should.

In comparison, other teams don't appear to have as many players willing to make unnecessary and reckless changes in their own area.

T'was ever thus. The harder you work, the luckier you get.

What a bizarre post 

[firstdivision]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I agree, think he was hoping for back-up from his assistant who in fairness probably has his view blocked.  Stroud had the best view.

I think they were also taken by surprise because they didn’t expect Semenyo to steal the ball. A bit like Swansea’s second goal - all happened too quick for them. 
Keith Stroud is a desperately ordinary ref though. Gavin Ward level. (Or perhaps that’s a touch harsh on Mr Keith). My heart always sinks though when I see them on the list for our game. 

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I agree, think he was hoping for back-up from his assistant who in fairness probably has his view blocked.  Stroud had the best view.

I think they were also taken by surprise because they didn’t expect Semenyo to steal the ball. A bit like Swansea’s second goal - all happened too quick for them. 
Keith Stroud is a desperately ordinary ref though. Gavin Ward level. (Or perhaps that’s a touch harsh on Mr Keith). My heart always sinks though when I see them on the list for our game. 

[ExiledAjax]

15 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Surely though it is pretty odd we have been awarded just one (at Coventry, when their bloke basically rugby tackled COD) & not 5 others, isn’t it?
A rate of only 16% correct decisions?

I left off the 2 shouts at Preston because I felt both were more marginal, but law of averages you would get one of those as well.

I agree it's odd. I was 10ft away from the Scott one against Forest. Nailed on.

But it's not outside the realms of possibility or probability that we can have that number of wrong calls against us. Each penalty decision is a discrete event that has no relation to the others that precede it. 

In the same way it is unlikely, but possible, to flip a coin 8 times and get heads every time. That doesn't mean the coin is rigged, it just means you got some odd luck.

[GrahamC]

10 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I agree it's odd. I was 10ft away from the Scott one against Forest. Nailed on.

But it's not outside the realms of possibility or probability that we can have that number of wrong calls against us. Each penalty decision is a discrete event that has no relation to the others that precede it. 

In the same way it is unlikely, but possible, to flip a coin 8 times and get heads every time. That doesn't mean the coin is rigged, it just means you got some odd luck.

Fair reply.

[BTRFTG]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Have you ever watched Alex Scott play? Goes down easier than a whore's knickers.

It would be wrong to pick Scott out but many of our kids appear to have learnt from CoD the master.

[BTRFTG]

54 minutes ago, Harry said:

What a bizarre post 

Nevertheless and as you consistently demonstrate, you and the truth make uncomfortable bedfellows 

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, The Original OTIB said:

The bloke just stood their with vacant eyes.

Now that is the first line of a Morrissey B-Side if I’ve ever heard one ...

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, Rich said:

There are teams that get them and Bristol City.

We are too easy for refs to not give them. Our players. supporters and coaching staff as a collective, do not fight hard enough for this club. We might get the odd outburst but we're not known for our tenacity in so many of the things that increase the chances of overall success.

I watched a game the other day where every tackle and ball out of play was appealed for as a collective. If the refs come up against the likes of Fergie or Warnock or whoever on a regular basis, they do their utmost to not really upset them, even then they expect a roasting.

We never as a club have a go at the FA, the Referees association, or enough regularly to make those organisations consider little Bristol City.

I actually believe we get all the referees who are doing their utmost to keep both sets of fans and players happy. The number of times I've noticed the game change in the 2nd half at AG, from a position of total command to one of holding on is strange to say the least. This is easily achieved by awarding most of the 50/50 challenges to the opposition, thus increasing their possession and ability to get the ball into the danger area, where there's a chance to give a penalty. I give you Reading as an example where I believe it was 25 mins into the 2nd half until we were awarded a free kick.

It's down to us as a club to change the way we're seen and, I mean in so many ways. We're too nice.

Which club was it a few years ago that seemed to have this same dilemma, they put together a montage of incidents where they were denied penalties and sent it to everyone in footballing and refereeing authority demanding answers as to why none of them were given? I can’t remember which club it was but I bet doing just a little thing like that nibbled away at refs doing their matches and may have resulted in a few more favourable decisions in their favour ... every little helps!

[1960maaan]

3 hours ago, Dan Robin said:

and in Scott's case, being phisically weaker than many of his opponents is a thing to consider.

He's not though, he may look physically smaller, but he can knock players over. He plays the game that others do, he gets between the player and ball, he goes down if pushed. Smart play we've been crying out for. 

[Red-Robbo]

Ultimately, refs shouldn't have to wait until a player falls over to award a foul if someone is pushed off the ball.  Putting your hand out to hold an opponent away is one thing, a deliberate shove on a player who is on the ball is quite another. 

It always strikes me as odd that refs allow players to armlock others, providing it is off the ball, yet when someone trips over someone's feet, the whistle immediately goes to their mouths.

The way the rules are interpreted need to be clarified IMO. We come to watch football, a game played largely at foot level, not Graeco-Roman wrestling. 

[RobintheRed Red]

7 hours ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Swansea defence could have come at Antoine and co with chainsaws today and we’d have got nothing, another incredibly one sided refereeing display. 

The man's a *** how many more years have we got to put up with him.

[Olé]

It's frustrating but it's simply because we keep losing close games from winning positions, it magnifies the impact which decisions would have had. I expect every club has a list of ones that got away, but no one remembers them all because several would be in fixtures where the result was not affected. We on the other hand are left needing them all back.

I mean refereeing in most of the fixtures mentioned has been woeful (QPR game most aggregiously) but there is nothing more sinister than that, as per @ExiledAjaxcoin toss analogy, you can't make a trend out of unrelated events. And the old story of our players not managing the ref doesn't apply either, Weimann and Martin are in their ear the whole time.

Also I don't read anything into the stat about least in Europe, someone has to be last, it is an irrelevance without knowing number of claims, and until the past six weeks we all know how depressing an attacking side we became over the past couple of years, don't forget last season we were zero threat and broke Championship records for fewest shots on target.

Tl;Dr - refereeing is frustrating, spineless, inconsistent, but it only sticks out more because we can't hold onto a result.

[Oh Louie louie]

Anybody remember a game at wigan.

Was either 2 or 3 pens, cant be sure cause dave smith had to retake one.

Cannonball smith scored one of the worst pens ive ever saw that day, daisycutter.

[cidercity1987]

We are so pathetically feeble as a club that they can't even be bothered to put this on the highlights

[Clutton Caveman]

On 13/02/2022 at 15:06, The Original OTIB said:

I think the ref was in two minds and was almost pleading the linesman to help him out. The bloke just stood their with vacant eyes.

Linesmen today do nothing except offside. Whenever the ball goes out they look to see which way the ref gives it and then put their flag up.

[Rich]

22 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Which club was it a few years ago that seemed to have this same dilemma, they put together a montage of incidents where they were denied penalties and sent it to everyone in footballing and refereeing authority demanding answers as to why none of them were given? I can’t remember which club it was but I bet doing just a little thing like that nibbled away at refs doing their matches and may have resulted in a few more favourable decisions in their favour ... every little helps!

I definitely remember that happening, can't recall who but, I imagine it was someone like Norwich, or WBA, bemoaning the supposed fact that teams such as Liverpool and MUFC actually do get more penalties awarded. Was most possibly a middle order type club.

[PHILINFRANCE]

6 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Linesmen today do nothing except offside. Whenever the ball goes out they look to see which way the ref gives it and then put their flag up.

I think you are correct about throw ins, but I seem to recall reading some time ago that this is what they are instructed to do in order to avoid controversy.

Perhaps somebody acquainted with professional refereeing might be able to advise.

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I think you are correct about throw ins, but I seem to recall reading some time ago that this is what they are instructed to do in order to avoid controversy.

Perhaps somebody acquainted with professional refereeing might be able to advise.

The assistant is mic’d up to the ref, therefore the flag is mainly for the crowd (once they agree on decision where a decision is required), not to tell the referee which way to give it.

[PHILINFRANCE]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The assistant is mic’d up to the ref, therefore the flag is mainly for the crowd (once they agree on decision where a decision is required), not to tell the referee which way to give it.

[A Horse With No Name]

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The assistant is mic’d up to the ref, therefore the flag is mainly for the crowd (once they agree on decision where a decision is required), not to tell the referee which way to give it.

When was the last time a lino gave a penalty by putting his flag across his chest. Ref never went against his decision. Has that been stopped as well?

[IAmNick]

5 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said:

When was the last time a lino gave a penalty by putting his flag across his chest. Ref never went against his decision. Has that been stopped as well?

I read somewhere recently that the flags the linemen have are almost entirely for the fans these days so we know what's going on.

The ref as far as I know isn't looking at them to see what they think he should do - he's already been told.

Edit: realised Dave already basically said this above in the bit you quoted, sorry!

Edited February 14, 2022 by IAmNick

[The Bard]

On 13/02/2022 at 18:11, ExiledAjax said:

I agree it's odd. I was 10ft away from the Scott one against Forest. Nailed on.

But it's not outside the realms of possibility or probability that we can have that number of wrong calls against us. Each penalty decision is a discrete event that has no relation to the others that precede it. 

In the same way it is unlikely, but possible, to flip a coin 8 times and get heads every time. That doesn't mean the coin is rigged, it just means you got some odd luck.

Are you Chris Martin?

[BTRFTG]

On 14/02/2022 at 02:37, Olé said:

And the old story of our players not managing the ref doesn't apply either, Weimann and Martin are in their ear the whole time

Not sure I'd describe their behaviour as 'managing' the officials, rather 'irritating' the officials. It's the reason City pick up so many needless bookings during cessations in play for what is tantamount to harassment. It's also why some decisions City should be awarded aren't given their way.

Weimann, in particular, is a downright cheat. He knows he's knocked the ball out of play, he appeals for it to be awarded a City ball. He appeals for everything irrespective of whether or not there's merit in his pleading. He's done it so frequently, over so many years, it's become an autonomic response. He gets bested in the challenge, falls over and believes that gives him the right to claim foul. The kids are following his example. There are plenty of morally bankrupt on here who'll claim it's 'harmless' else 'everybody does it'. Latterly, they don't, it's cheating, in extremis is simulation or unsportsmanlike conduct and should be punished. It also isn't 'harmless' as cry wolf once to often and you discover folks long since stopped listening. Add in a fickle AG mob and cheating pleadings quickly transfer to the stands. I've witnessed many occasions where the officials have called decisions correctly, though not to the liking of the likes of Weimann whose behaviour whips up the fans. A couple of rapid, back to back incidents and the hysterical crowd gets on the officials backs, though they've done nothing wrong. And you think they'll likely give the next 50:50 City's way? And from that position we witness games get away from us.