Winless Sequences…

[Super]

51 minutes ago, Slippin cider said:

I think ‘can be’ is the key , we have seen a few times this season that we can be an excellent side playing some great stuff but it’s the inconsistency that kills us . 

Have we really? I don't think we have beaten any of the top teams and have struggled to beat some really poor ones.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

My point is ( and made above to @HappyClapper)is that we are pretty much a bang average Champ team but playing like bottom feeders due to a terrible defence which , surely, is for the manager to manage?

It is for the manager to manage.  And it looks like he will do so in the summer.  He’s brought in a sticking plaster in Klose during the Jan window.  Whether it still has its stickiness beyond the summer I’ve no idea.

You can’t always “coach it in”….looks like he’s tried that, given players enough of a chance.  He’s trying to do what he can on a limited budget.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Just felt tips these days!

Pervert.

[HappyClapper]

17 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Hmmm- I'm really not sure about the 4-5 points. When we look at those last minute shockers we've suffered then add +6 minimum ( I think!) and also the truly shocking nailed on penalties we have been denied add may be another 3 ?

My point is ( and made above to @HappyClapper)is that we are pretty much a bang average Champ team but playing like bottom feeders due to a terrible defence which , surely, is for the manager to manage?

I agree that we could/should have more points. I see the issues as ones of individual concentration and decision making. These are things that can’t be laid at Pearson’s door IMO. He can set an environment and they can work on things in training, but if players are going to freeze in the headlights ultimately he needs different players. I also think the loss of Matty James has left a bigger hole to fill than many realised. I include myself in that.

On the plus side, if we can get some movement out this summer it feels like something that can be fixed with 3/4 additions.

Edited February 14, 2022 by HappyClapper
AC

[Slippin cider]

19 minutes ago, Super said:

Have we really? I don't think we have beaten any of the top teams and have struggled to beat some really poor ones.

I’m thinking very recently, AW hat trick and the resurgent AS .

[Numero Uno]

8 minutes ago, HappyClapper said:

I agree that we could/should have more points. I see the issues as ones of individual concentration and decision making. These are things that can’t be laid at Pearson’s door IMO. He can set an environment and they can work on things in training, but if players are going to freeze in the headlights ultimately he needs different players. I also think the loss of Matty James has left a bigger hole to fill than many realised. I include myself in that.

On the plus side, if we can get some movement out this summer it feels like something that can be fixed with 3/4 additions.

Depends what you mean by fixed I think. If fixed means being consistently competitive and no longer prone to some of the regular stupidity/calamity we have seen this season then I agree. I don't think it means being Play Off contenders next season, nothing like it imo.

[HappyClapper]

17 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Depends what you mean by fixed I think. If fixed means being consistently competitive and no longer prone to some of the regular stupidity/calamity we have seen this season then I agree. I don't think it means being Play Off contenders next season, nothing like it imo.

I get your point. I don’t think we’re going to be top 6 material next season. But if you look at some of the naive defending, poor goals and capitulations this season, worth at least 10 points?  Add this to our current total and we’re in the mix. 
I would expect a top half finish next season and hopefully a plan to make a push the season after.

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, HappyClapper said:

I get your point. I don’t think we’re going to be top 6 material next season. But if you look at some of the naive defending, poor goals and capitulations this season, worth at least 10 points?  Add this to our current total and we’re in the mix. 
I would expect a top half finish next season and hopefully a plan to make a push the season after.

Yeah, exactly how I would like to see it go.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

47 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It is for the manager to manage.  And it looks like he will do so in the summer.  He’s brought in a sticking plaster in Klose during the Jan window.  Whether it still has its stickiness beyond the summer I’ve no idea.

You can’t always “coach it in”….looks like he’s tried that, given players enough of a chance.  He’s trying to do what he can on a limited budget.

That was said by many last summer. Our thoughts diverge on the issue of what a manager is and isn't responsible for and for how long. After over 50 games in charge, I don't buy into the fact that he'll create an efficient defence by magic this summer but whatever either of us say about that is pure speculation and personal opinion of where the water is in the glass.

We can only judge on results and performances to date.

I think we have a bang average team who perform below their ability with a bang average manager who performs in line with his ability- an opinion honed by trudging to Ashton Gate for post covid home matches since NP was appointed.

[pongo88]

2 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

So that's W 10  D 7  L 15 this season.

Last season's 14 league games with NP were

W2  D3  L9

So that's a total record of W12  D10  L24- 46 matches. There hasn't been a back to back victory since NP took charge and despite some players going, some new ones coming it still remains the fault of the players etc. My thoughts are that despite the rare occasion when we look really good which gives us all hope for the future- the reality is that we are a bottom feeder and that it is not unreasonable for fans to be asking some serious questions of the Manager as well as players and owners.

My additional thoughts are that NP should see out the season but if I was SL ,I'd be very nervous to allow NP to "get rid" of all the players he doesnt like , aquire new ones ( he hasn't really convinced me he can get the best out of players including the ones he's brought in) whilst  he's achieved naff all so far. That is my opinion.

 

I’d be happy for Pearson to get rid of all the players he doesn’t like because, IMO, the ones he doesn’t like are the ones who don’t deliver. The cumulative cost of their salaries are a big drain on the finances. As for acquiring new players I think his record is a bit patchy. Simpson and King were mistakes but Atkinson and Tanner seem to be good value signings who will develop. With getting the best out of players, just look at Scott, Benarous, Pring, Semenyo, Massengo and Weimann. The first three are having their first season at Championship level and the last three are definitely better this season 

[1960maaan]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

You can’t always “coach it in”….looks like he’s tried that, given players enough of a chance.  He’s trying to do what he can on a limited budget.

Yep. Players plato, reach their level or aren't good enough , depending on who's opinion it is, for a reason.
That can be ability, but you can make the most out of that by determination and work.
If it's attitude or the mental side, that is hard to sort out, if not impossible.

I keep looking at that first goal. DaSilva stops and makes no attempt to get back in a position to help, even watches the goal scorer run past him. Vyner get abuse as closest player to him, but if JD tracks the runner, Vyner can concentrate on what's in front of him and maybe affect play more.  That's nothing to do with ability or skill or the like, he just stops. 

I'd give Pearson time, as in my opinion , and this is ignoring injuries, his hit rate with signings is pretty good IMO.
Atkinson, Tanner, Klose, James, King all but Simpson have looked promising. The young players have all seemed to step up, where before we rarely saw a player improve once he was here. 

Plus for the first time in 2 years I have actually enjoyed going to football, which is nice. 

[Red-Robbo]

5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Yep. Players plato, reach their level or aren't good enough , depending on who's opinion it is, for a reason.

 

Most are pretty philosophical about it though.

 

 

Sorry. I'll go and have stern words with myself...

 

 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 hour ago, pongo88 said:

I’d be happy for Pearson to get rid of all the players he doesn’t like because, IMO, the ones he doesn’t like are the ones who don’t deliver. The cumulative cost of their salaries are a big drain on the finances. As for acquiring new players I think his record is a bit patchy. Simpson and King were mistakes but Atkinson and Tanner seem to be good value signings who will develop. With getting the best out of players, just look at Scott, Benarous, Pring, Semenyo, Massengo and Weimann. The first three are having their first season at Championship level and the last three are definitely better this season 

So let me get this right:

The players who are doing well are because of NP and his coaching whereas the players who aren't doing well is because they are not delivering and to quote NP are a "cop out" ( good luck with trying to sell players who you name and shame). So, who other than Viner and COD who have been not great at any time are the ones not delivering?

As for the players who have come through the ranks such as Scott , Pring and Benarous then I really think that the accolades for this are shared and Tinnion has had a big part to play and would be a natural development under any manager. Weimann has been a solid performer for us since he signed whilst Massengo was signed before NP and whilst has had some incredible performances has not always been a nailed on starter for any manager including NP.

It cannot be that our best players are good because NP made them so whilst the others are bad because they were always bad. I think some players may well have benefited from NP and some have not but we shall see how things go and no matter what we think- its not in our power to influence matters. We'll have a new manager within  a couple of seasons and a different team- that's football.

 

 

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

So let me get this right:

The players who are doing well are because of NP and his coaching whereas the players who aren't doing well is because they are not delivering and to quote NP are a "cop out" ( good luck with trying to sell players who you name and shame). So, who other than Viner and COD who have been not great at any time are the ones not delivering?

As for the players who have come through the ranks such as Scott , Pring and Benarous then I really think that the accolades for this are shared and Tinnion has had a big part to play and would be a natural development under any manager. Weimann has been a solid performer for us since he signed whilst Massengo was signed before NP and whilst has had some incredible performances has not always been a nailed on starter for any manager including NP.

It cannot be that our best players are good because NP made them so whilst the others are bad because they were always bad. I think some players may well have benefited from NP and some have not but we shall see how things go and no matter what we think- its not in our power to influence matters. We'll have a new manager within  a couple of seasons and a different team- that's football.

 

 

That’s a fair post.

Same thing said of LJ - what a wonderful coach….but nothing said about the ones who didn’t improve.

FWIW I think we are showing some signs of improvement, but he hasn’t got the balance right.  

[The Swan and Cemetery]

4 hours ago, HappyClapper said:

I also think the loss of Matty James has left a bigger hole to fill than many realised.

Very much agree with this (and King to some extent), wise old heads whom whilst legs not what they were, when fit, bring a lot of tactical nous to the team.
 

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

It cannot be that our best players are good because NP made them so whilst the others are bad because they were always bad.

Very fair. Think the coach can and should make a difference (as should the players, neither full blame or credit to either), but needs to be some acknowledgement of the tools at his disposal. We’re broadly where I’d expect us to be with the squad we’ve got, with an attack over performing (well done NP/CF) and a defence under performing (must do better NP/CF) vs expectations. Therefore overall I’m fine for NP/CF to continue for now (that’s my preference vs other options), but that’s not the same as thinking they’re the eighth wonder, they should continue forever, whatever, or any other accusations of happy clappy-ness that non-sack-him-now folk sometimes get! 

Edited February 14, 2022 by The Swan and Cemetery

[pongo88]

17 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

So let me get this right:

The players who are doing well are because of NP and his coaching whereas the players who aren't doing well is because they are not delivering and to quote NP are a "cop out" ( good luck with trying to sell players who you name and shame). So, who other than Viner and COD who have been not great at any time are the ones not delivering?

As for the players who have come through the ranks such as Scott , Pring and Benarous then I really think that the accolades for this are shared and Tinnion has had a big part to play and would be a natural development under any manager. Weimann has been a solid performer for us since he signed whilst Massengo was signed before NP and whilst has had some incredible performances has not always been a nailed on starter for any manager including NP.

It cannot be that our best players are good because NP made them so whilst the others are bad because they were always bad. I think some players may well have benefited from NP and some have not but we shall see how things go and no matter what we think- its not in our power to influence matters. We'll have a new manager within  a couple of seasons and a different team- that's football.

 

 

Sorry Marina, you haven’t got it right, you’ve got it wrong. I don’t doubt that Tinnion etc has  played a part in the young players development, but I was replying to your comment:

“ he hasn't really convinced me he can get the best out of players including the ones he's brought in”.
 

Players such as Scott, Benarous, Massengo, Pring, Weimann, Semenyo have all played exceptionally well this season. If you don’t believe Pearson is getting the best out of these players, what else can he do? Are you saying all of these players are underperforming and would play better under a different manager.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I don’t think many would agree with that. 
 

I agreed with you that Simpson and King weren’t good signings, but Tanner and Atkinson have only played in Leagues 1 & 2 before joining City. Considering their injuries, this season, their progress is as expected. 
 

 

[Mendip City]

I’ve skimmed the thread but back to the original subject of winless runs, I wonder whether they will increase between now and the end of the season? One factor I’ve not seen mentioned often is that most of our season has been dead-rubbers. We’ve never really got sucked into relegation fight, never threatened the top of the table. Similar at the back end of last season where we were truly awful but were never going down. 
I think we lack a bit of edge/jeopardy at times… hard to be 100% focused/motivated? (I know they are professionals but human nature is a factor).
I guess I’m wary that despite everything NP rants about… the flip flops might already be on and the team heading closer and closer to the beach….