Pearson’s Not Happy!

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 minute ago, JP Hampton said:

I don’t know enough about JL to make any real comment but I do know what’s happened since Pearson came. They knew the type of manager they were employing they seemingly wanted someone with a firm character willing to knock a few heads together his reputation preceded him.  
What I believe that JL should be saying is we’re behind NP and it is a case of trusting “the process” which will take time. What they also need to do is make sure that we don’t keep allowing players to improve here only to sell them on to the detriment of the club. 
 

You could add Danny Wilson to SoD and SC another manager who left after being frustrated by the board. 
 

The trouble is we’ve heard a lot of soundbites from the Lansdowns  over the years and I think this comment from JL is simply another of those, but he wasn’t banking on NP reacting to it in this way. 
 

Blimey - my memory must be going.

I was certain they all left after getting the sack

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Blimey - my memory must be going.

I was certain they all left after getting the sack

I think that's a bit picky - it is slightly clumsily written, but 'left after being frustrated by the board' doesn't necessarily mean they resigned from the job. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Phileas Fogg

[pongo88]

9 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

What were you expecting this season, out of interest? I would’ve snapped your hand off for 21st, so the fact we sit 17th and comfortably away from relegation, in my eyes we are overachieving.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I seem to recall Steve Lansdown saying in the summer that top 6 was the aim, which was as much a pipe dream then as it is now, though it wouldn’t surprise me if Jon is still thinking along the same lines.

This question wasn’t directed at me, but out of interest, I met a few fellow supporters before the season and we had a bet on where we thought City would finish this season. The predictions were:

11th (me, over optimistic as always), 18th, 6th, 20th, 15th.  So, the average position was 14th. If we ignore the 6th  prediction (he’d had a couple of pints) City is roughly where expected.  I haven’t a clue what the rest of the fan based expected, but I’m sure most thought this would be a difficult transition season. It is. 

 

[JP Hampton]

3 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Blimey - my memory must be going.

I was certain they all left after getting the sack

Indeed but you know what I meant. They may well have been sacked but it was certainly after a breakdown in relationships as well as results. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

I think that's a bit picky - it is slightly clumsily written, but 'left after being frustrated by the board' doesn't necessarily mean they resigned from the job. 

Maybe but they were indeed sacked.

It would be a rare event when a highly paid senior employee gets dismissed and doesn't feel some form of frustration towards their former employees.

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Maybe but they were indeed sacked.

I think it's a bit unfair then to wilfully try and misrepresent the point they were making in that case. 

Just now, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

It would be a rare event when a highly paid senior employee gets dismissed and doesn't feel some form of frustration towards their former employees.

Of course, but that doesn't take into account any context. We all remember what was going on around the times of their dismissal. This feels a bit similar to the Cotterill situation in 15/16. I don't think Pearson is quite as explosive or emotional as Cotterill though so hopefully it can be dealt with properly. 

[Numero Uno]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

I think that's a bit picky - it is slightly clumsily written, but 'left after being frustrated by the board' doesn't necessarily mean they resigned from the job. 

Cotterill's interviews at the end of his tenure oozed frustration with those above him. He wanted to move the club forward but way too quickly for the Lansdown's liking. Instead they have subjected us to a "death by 1000 cuts" FFP shambles.............."oh but how could they predict Covid would happen?", 91 other clubs in the same boat and my guess is that Millwall, Luton, Brentford and Preston didn't lose £38m last season.

They actually have a Manager who is prepared to work within the constraints of the shambles they have created and he isn't good enough for them apparently. All I can say is ******* best of luck when Michael Appleton or equivalent rocks up next......................that said I could easily imagine Steve getting on the phone to LJ, that will shift the season tickets!!  

[GrahamC]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

I think that's a bit picky - it is a bit clumsily written, but 'left after being frustrated by the board' doesn't necessarily mean they resigned from the job. 

It is a very odd take on things.

Wilson was given 4 years, a very high budget for League One & at the end of that time we were no further forward at all, he was sacked because the board believed we were making progress under him at the pace of a slow tortoise.

SOD inherited a mess & was tasked with re-building the club, although he brought in some excellent players with minimal funds, we were struggling near the bottom of League One having been relegated the year before & the board again lost faith that he was turning us around.

It is certainly possible to argue in SOD’s case (as some do) that he would have turned it around, but we were uncomfortably close to becoming a League Two club, so he was dismissed.

Both of these managers probably felt “frustrated” by the board but time in Wilson’s case & results in SOD’s meant they went.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

Cotterill's interviews at the end of his tenure oozed frustration with those above him. He wanted to move the club forward but way too quickly for the Lansdown's liking. Instead they have subjected us to a "death by 1000 cuts" FFP shambles.............."oh but how could they predict Covid would happen?", 91 other clubs in the same boat and my guess is that Millwall, Luton, Brentford and Preston didn't lose £38m last season.

Yes. I even remember this interview post-Yeovil town in a friendly where it was clear he was frustrated. 

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

They actually have a Manager who is prepared to work within the constraints of the shambles they have created and he isn't good enough for them apparently. All I can say is ******* best of luck when Michael Appleton or equivalent rocks up next......................that said I could easily imagine Steve getting on the phone to LJ, that will shift the season tickets!!  

Had Johnson stayed at Sunderland and got them promoted, I genuinely wouldn't have put it past him. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 minute ago, JP Hampton said:

Indeed but you know what I meant. They may well have been sacked but it was certainly after a breakdown in relationships as well as results. 

the two go hand in hand in virtually every case- if you could point to any Manager in ,say 25 years, at BCFC that has left the Club due to frustration with the board as opposed to being sacked for poor ongoing results?

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

It is a very odd take on things.

Wilson was given 4 years, a very high budget for League One & at the end of that time we were no further forward at all, he was sacked because the board believed we were making progress under him at the pace of a slow tortoise.

SOD inherited a mess & was tasked with re-building the club, although he brought in some excellent players with minimal funds, we were struggling near the bottom of League One having been relegated the year before & the board again lost faith that he was turning us around.

It is certainly possible to argue in SOD’s case (as some do) that he would have turned it around, but we were uncomfortably close to becoming a League Two club, so he was dismissed.

Both of these managers probably felt “frustrated” by the board but time in Wilson’s case & results in SOD’s meant they went.

I wasn't around for the Danny Wilson era so won't comment on that.

Agree on SO'D though. I think he just wasn't the personality we needed at the time. The fans could recognise the club were in a bad place, and having such a dour and defeatist manager showing absolutely no enthusiasm or positivity just wasn't what we needed. Pound for pound he did make some excellent signings though, ones which stood the test of time. 

We did need a far more galvanising character - and we got that with Cotterill. 

[samo II]

Ultimately, for me; we’re exactly in the position where the squad and state of the club in suggested we would be coming into the season - lower mid table.

I don’t agree with JL’s suggestion we are underperforming, certainly when you take injured players into account, and in the case of the number of youth/academy players we’ve played regularly this year, lower mid table seems about right.

Do we need to see further improvements? Yes. Would we be somewhat better off had we performed better at certainly key points (like in the 90th+ min in defence multiple times)? Yes.

But we are in deep trouble financially, and don’t have the flexibility with personnel to change much, and so expect much of an injection of talent - NP and CF really have been getting what they can from a limited squad, and at least that’s looking so far to be enough to fend of relegation, allowing us to go again at this level.

I’m grateful to the Lansdown family for all they have done for the club, but Pearson is right; trying to do a ‘semi-Brentford’ for years was always a high risk/high reward way of doing things, and one that ultimately they signed off on, and has resulted in us being unable to weather the covid ‘storm’ so they need to temper their expectations now to fit the ‘new normal’.

I’m firmly in the camp of seeing us as exactly where I expected us to be; kind of shocked anyone would think otherwise tbh.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I wasn't around for the Danny Wilson era so won't comment on that.

 

No need to show off you lucky sod

[supercidered]

1 hour ago, Red Army 75 said:

Me personally I was always going to start to judge NP as Bristol City manager from next season. With what’s gone on staying up this season was all that matters to me. Yes it’s frustrating to lose games, last minute goals and conceding poor poor goals. I’m hoping he gets rid off some players and NP said it’s our most important transfer window coming up. Looking forward to him building his team. But my worry now is a couple of more defeats and a bit of disharmony in the camp I’m starting to think he might not be here in the summer. Which would be terrible. NP has a voice and is not afraid to use it. The lansdowns aren’t use to this kind of personality managing our football club. I really hope it’s a storm in a teacup and NP is here in the summer.

In short, this is the problem. However, SL and JL need to change their mindset if they want the club to succeed. 

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Wilson was given 4 years, a very high budget for League One & at the end of that time we were no further forward at all, he was sacked because the board believed we were making progress under him at the pace of a slow tortoise.

Yes, Wilson spent a fortune by League One standards (just think how much the £600k for Peacock would be in today's terms for instance) and failed to get promotion. He was told the budget would have to be cut and wasn't having it so off he went.

GJ subsequently won promotion on a shoestring by comparison.

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

No need to show off you lucky sod

But @Robbored tells me it was the most enjoyable football he's ever seen at City?!!

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

But @Robbored tells me it was the most enjoyable football he's ever seen at City?!!

I think he was talking about the opposition who all looked like world beaters- he even wrote a song about it but it never caught on.... 

 

[samo II]

8 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Yes, Wilson spent a fortune by League One standards (just think how much the £600k for Peacock would be in today's terms for instance) and failed to get promotion. He was told the budget would have to be cut and wasn't having it so off he went.

GJ subsequently won promotion on a shoestring by comparison.

Actively shocking how good that team was when you look at the squad we had, and when you think they then almost took us to the Prem.

[Robbored]

13 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Yes, Wilson spent a fortune by League One standards (just think how much the £600k for Peacock would be in today's terms for instance) and failed to get promotion. He was told the budget would have to be cut and wasn't having it so off he 

Not true - DW said on an podcast about a year ago that he was on holiday during the summer break and received a phone call that he’d been sacked. He was as surprised as anyone considering his team had lost in the pray off final.

I still maintain that in all the years that I’ve been attending AG that the football served up by Wilson was the most entertaining that I’d seen.  That season was great to witness and desperately sad that Lee Miller missed a simple tap at the County Ground to virtually seal automatic promotion.

In came GJ and served the complete opposite to what DW had done. It was slow, pedestrian, turgid and boring……….. and raised the question of whether the fans want entertainment or promotion playing dreary football.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Robbored

[GrahamC]

10 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Yes, Wilson spent a fortune by League One standards (just think how much the £600k for Peacock would be in today's terms for instance) and failed to get promotion. He was told the budget would have to be cut and wasn't having it so off he went.

GJ subsequently won promotion on a shoestring by comparison.

Yep, he also inherited a £1m striker in Thorpe, who although not my type at all, had a prolific career at L1 level.

Despite this in 4 full years, he took us absolutely nowhere.

Ward, GJ (who was one game away from pulling off a truly remarkable double) & Cotterill all managed to achieve promotion in their first full season, not pissing around getting nowhere in 4. 

[Sleepy1968]

15 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Yes, Wilson spent a fortune by League One standards (just think how much the £600k for Peacock would be in today's terms for instance) and failed to get promotion. He was told the budget would have to be cut and wasn't having it so off he went.

He was sacked after the 1-0 play off final defeat to Brighton wasn't he? He didn't resign.

[cityfan1958]

I think Mr Gould may prove to be a key figure. It may be that he may have to be a peace maker. Longer term it may be his view on Pearson that decides how long he is here, in that, if he gets what Pearson is doing and sees him as the best man for the job, he may need to be buffer between the two. 
What I can’t understand about the owners is that they overseen these finical resets before, which usually results in a relegation, but don’t seem to grasp the fact that we need to get away from this constant boom and bust cycle to make any sort of progress. 

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Not true - DW said on an podcast about a year ago that he was on holiday during the summer break and received a phone call that he’d been sacked. He was as surprised as anyone considering his team had lost in the pray off final.

I still maintain that in all the years that I’ve been attending AG that the football served up by Wilson was the most entertaining that I’d seen.  That season was great to witness and desperately sad that Lee Miller missed a simple tap at the County Ground to virtually seal automatic promotion.

Steve himself said budgets would need to be cut and staff let go. I wouldn't take too much notice of Wilson's self serving version. The man who said losing the play off final was not failure and who didn't even have Lita on the bench.

So Wilson spends fortune but fails to meet his target = success. LJ spends fortune but fails to meet his target = failure?

[Merrick's Marvels]

6 hours ago, SydneyCity said:

I think this is all a storm in a teacup.

In my opinion, JL often drifts between wanting to be seen as a chairman, fan or footy lad. In this instance I think he was being interviewed as a chairman but in this particular instance, answering as a fan/footy lad - a throw away, stereotypical line about “we should be doing better” that most fans roll out regularly about their team. Very tone-deaf in this scenario - and unprofessional as a chairman - but I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

The press has picked this up, Nige has bitten and here we are.

I’d like to think a phone call could sort it all out.

If I’m wrong, and he is outwardly criticising the improvements we’ve made under Nige with the intention of getting rid, then I too will have lost a lot of faith in the board.

My initial reaction, too. Think we might be blowing this out of proportion on here.

Certainly hope so, anyway.

Pearson's "bonkers" comment seemed light hearted and throwaway rather than a deliberate, provocative rebuke of his employer - he might be straight talking but he isn't looking to get sacked!

And I agree with you about the Chairman - I think his comments about us under-performing might have been him speaking as a fan (he is one too!) and expressing, perhaps badly, his exasperation at the leads we've squandered and the goals we've conceded late on, without which we'd be much higher in the table. An exasperation we all share - including the manager.

Fingers crossed it's that, anyway. Would be madness to lose such a highly qualified manager whose professional attributes are just what we need right now, even if his personality sometimes rubs people up the wrong way.

The BCFC family + Nigel Pearson both have so much to gain by making this journey together work. If we hit bumps in the road along the way, we need to smooth them over, not throw our toys out the pram - the prize at the end, for both, is too great for that.    

Edited February 18, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

He was sacked after the 1-0 play off final defeat to Brighton wasn't he? He didn't resign.

Correct but chinapig thinks that DW getting sacked is a false claim.

[chinapig]

4 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

He was sacked after the 1-0 play off final defeat to Brighton wasn't he? He didn't resign.

Indeed, I didn't mean to imply he resigned but that he wasn't prepared to accept cuts that were necessary as a result of his failure. There was no way he could keep his job in the circumstances.

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Indeed, I didn't mean to imply he resigned but that he wasn't prepared to accept cuts that were necessary as a result of his failure. There was no way he could keep his job in the circumstances.

So why was DW so surprised to receive a phone call telling him that he was sacked?

I wouldn’t be surprised if SL regrets that decision even after all these years.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Robbored

[Alessandro]

10 hours ago, spudski said:

The difference being SoD and Cotterill, lost the fan base in the end...mainly because they had no idea of what was going on behind closed doors.

I feel there is an understanding now amongst the fan base that we have been run poorly for many years. 

NP has his faults, but he's in a far stronger position with the fans, than the board and owner right now.

They would do well to listen for a change. Get some humility. They are starting to look like little Hitler's. Do as I say...it's my ball, I'm captain, I'll take it home if you don't do as I say syndrome.

Think they are losing the plot a bit...started to look like a good idea, now it just looks like a rich blokes play thing who wants to leave a legacy...the underlying feeling is he's losing respect.

You've hit the nail on the head here for me.

I've always been supporters of the Lansdown's, still am, I appreciate what they've done and their continued investment in the club. For me up until now you can't really question their commitment and I thank them for that.

But you can question their actions. The list of 'mistakes' is getting longer and I feel they have, for whatever reason, become increasingly distanced from the fans, seemingly incapable of admitting fault or mistakes - and worst of all in danger of stubbornly peddling a 'narrative' that just doesn't meet with reality.

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

You've hit the nail on the head here for me.

I've always been supporters of the Lansdown's, still am, I appreciate what they've done and their continued investment in the club. For me up until now you can't really question their commitment and I thank them for that.

But you can question their actions. The list of 'mistakes' is getting longer and I feel they have, for whatever reason, become increasingly distanced from the fans, seemingly incapable of admitting fault or mistakes - and worst of all in danger of stubbornly peddling a 'narrative' that just doesn't meet with reality.

I feel the same and it's why I like Pearson, he tells you like it is, 

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Reading through the full transcription, was pleased to see that mental health and burnout, sorry, Full Tilt was mentioned as it's something I've looked at suggested previously maybe an issue. 

What do you mean by that?

4 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

As for the rest of comments it seems Nige has had words with both RG and JL where they do not see eye to eye. 

The Gould stuff wasn't necessarily that they 'don't see eye to eye', it's just that they obviously disagree about certain things in a working relationship which Pearson clearly feels is healthy. I think the Lansdown stuff is different though.