Scott, Semenyo, Massengo and the summer

[NcnsBcfc]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I think all three will be here next season.  I think they will buy into the progress being made and the potential for 40+ games a season.  Scott is tied down to 2025 anyway.  Semenyo and Massengo are in contract talks.  My gut feel is that in Massengo’s case there could be deliberation over getting a mutually acceptable buy-out clause. I think if Massengo wanted to leave, talks would’ve stopped.

Love your optimism @Davefevs

[REDOXO]

3 hours ago, Mr Chappers said:

Can see a big offer for Semenyo and maybe Scott, which will be hard to resist. Not sure about HNM, still a lot missing from his game

Yes careful now. You are not allowed to talk in such a way about  HNM here! Luckily Pearson has stated as much about the boys game. Nevertheless he does have substantial value IMO, the question would be is it enough to not have to sell Scott and Semenyo?

[kiwicolin]

4 hours ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Roll forward a few months. The window is open. Wide open…..

The value of these 3 could be stellar. They could be sold to balance the FFP books. They who live in exile could have a draw. 

Or we could see some real intent. We don’t waste another opportunity for future glory. We do all we can to keep these 3. We clear out those who really should be up on The Downs. 

No ifs not buts no coconuts but if we’d invested on the green stuff when there was real opportunity and players with potential where might we have been now?

I know what I’d do. What would you do?

We may not need to sell these players if we can get some money from the sales of Webster or Kelly .

[ExiledAjax]

I don't think Scott is going anywhere this summer. He's contracted for the next 3 seasons and is young. He's good, but he's not £20-30m good (yet).

Remember that only a small handful of Championship players have ever been sold for north of £20m (almost all in the pre-covid market). He'd be in the company of Watkins, Webster, Bowen etc. He's good, but he's not that level (yet). £30m would make him the second most expensive Championship ever after Watkins.

Massengo and Semenyo similarly would just not go for those amounts. I aaid elsewhere that Eze is the current yardstick. He was more accomplished than both of our players when he went to Palace for a fee of up to £20m (so a lower base amount plus add ons).

I'd expect something like £10-12m, maybe less, for each of those guys.

[bcfc01]

3 hours ago, Mr Chappers said:

Can see a big offer for Semenyo and maybe Scott, which will be hard to resist. Not sure about HNM, still a lot missing from his game

All three have big futures.

But I tend to agree that there is still a lot to come from Massengo, he's still learning and the other two, in my opinion, are developing quicker than him. By the end of this season, I'd expect Semenyo and Scott to command a higher fee.

Hope we fight to keep the three of them and show a bit of intent for a change.

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Would love for all 3 to stay, medium to long term.

I fear that we will need to sell one however to stave off sanctions but I am modelling 3-4 different projections and scenarios- depending on which scenario we fall under we might not need to sell any this summer or be in a position whereby if we do, we can reinvest a reasonable chunk.

[Major Isewater]

4 hours ago, Mr Chappers said:

Can see a big offer for Semenyo and maybe Scott, which will be hard to resist. Not sure about HNM, still a lot missing from his game

If Scott were to be sold do we have a very nearly replacement in Benarous ? 

[Mr Chappers]

3 hours ago, jaydee=inspiration said:

Don't know why you're post about HNM got two laughs, think it is pretty accurate tbh. His offensive play needs a lot of work which is why whoever comes in would be buying potential, hence less of sum that some people may be hoping for.

In 3 years we haven’t really seen him develop significantly. For big money, I’d want more than he offers.

[Mr Chappers]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

Yes careful now. You are not allowed to talk in such a way about  HNM here! Luckily Pearson has stated as much about the boys game. Nevertheless he does have substantial value IMO, the question would be is it enough to not have to sell Scott and Semenyo?

Not sure in the current market, I can see it being a low fee with add ons. You have to be realistic, especially with one year of contract left.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Red Cloud said:

sorry if I missed this but anybody got a list of who's out of contract in the summer? - surely that will have a massive impact on who we have to sell

1 hour ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Love your optimism @Davefevs

I genuinely do, just like in summer 19 I thought all the Chelsea loanees would return.

[DaveInSA]

For me it’s about momentum and Nigel Pearson.

If the young lads believe and why wouldn’t they, we could do a Leicester (without he winning the Prem bit, obvs).

I think we could extend all of their deals.

FFP is an issue, though but that’s Richar Gould’s job to balance the books.

Cant we fire the useful overpaid assholes that don’t even get in the bench - breach of contract or something - just so poor.

 

[BigAl&Toby]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think all three will be here next season.  I think they will buy into the progress being made and the potential for 40+ games a season.  Scott is tied down to 2025 anyway.  Semenyo and Massengo are in contract talks.  My gut feel is that in Massengo’s case there could be deliberation over getting a mutually acceptable buy-out clause. I think if Massengo wanted to leave, talks would’ve stopped.

@Davefevs I’ll be totally upfront. I was being naughty. If we go down the Kelly/Webster/Brownhill route with any of them then that, for me, will again demonstrate the true commitment that the Exiles have to our club.

I purposely only mentioned these 3 as these are the chips that could most easily be cashed in for maximum cash.

There are several “Tyreeqs” who I’d expect to be gone - and could go for nothing as far as I’m concerned. 

If we’re ever to get to the Promised Land then we need to do everything we can to recruit, attract and retain quality. And yes. At whatever it takes.

None of this HPC, development and sell on clause nonsense.

Steve. Are you listening to The Sage?

[INCRED]

4 hours ago, The Bard said:

It's pretty obvious that unless Massengo signs a new deal,  he will be sold in the summer. 

Semenyo, maybe sold but only if we get an insane offer (£20 million+).  With Scott it would have to be past £30 million given the length of his contract.

£10 million plus add ons and sell on for Massengo would ensure the FFP is sorted and leave some leeway to buy players.  May also allow us to take a bigger hit than we'd prefer on the players under contract who we want to get rid of. I can imagine Nige doesn't want to see certain players for another year and wants a side that is clearly his own starting the season.

It wouldn't surprise me if we accepted offers for Kalas, Dasilva or Bentley too. All will have 1 year left and still retain some kind of transfer value. 

 

Blimey, let’s sell the Crown Jewels and more and leave the cupboard bare!!

Wells & Palmer need to be off loaded this summer, Vyner, Odowda & Taylor Moore paid off/released 

HNM is the only one who I can see leaving and is a player who is difficult to fit into a NP style 

Scott & Semenyo are must keeps 

I think NP will bring in a RB, CB and wide player minimum and another midfielder 

 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

If Scott were to be sold do we have a very nearly replacement in Benarous ? 

Sounds like an international  border dispute.

[The Bard]

30 minutes ago, INCRED said:

Blimey, let’s sell the Crown Jewels and more and leave the cupboard bare!!

Wells & Palmer need to be off loaded this summer, Vyner, Odowda & Taylor Moore paid off/released 

HNM is the only one who I can see leaving and is a player who is difficult to fit into a NP style 

Scott & Semenyo are must keeps 

I think NP will bring in a RB, CB and wide player minimum and another midfielder 

 

That's not what I said at all is it?

Figures I used for Semenyo and Scott were the type we  can't realistically turn down. Every player has his price unless you are Man City or PSG basically 

Edited February 20, 2022 by The Bard

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Mr Chappers said:

Not sure in the current market, I can see it being a low fee with add ons. You have to be realistic, especially with one year of contract left.

Yes you do! I suppose it’s about relativity. What is a small fee in his case. City bought him for two (unless the bullshit is right and they actually paid eight)  

 

[REDOXO]

36 minutes ago, INCRED said:

Blimey, let’s sell the Crown Jewels and more and leave the cupboard bare!!

Wells & Palmer need to be off loaded this summer, Vyner, Odowda & Taylor Moore paid off/released 

HNM is the only one who I can see leaving and is a player who is difficult to fit into a NP style 

Scott & Semenyo are must keeps 

I think NP will bring in a RB, CB and wide player minimum and another midfielder 

 

I always laugh at the ‘off loaded’ thing. Both these players have contracts that they can happily wind down. 
 

If another club shows an interest the fee and the subsequent wage will not match anything we paid in any area. Thus even if a club wanted them the player is in no way under any pressure to leave unless they are prepared to get less money in the hope of more first team football opportunity. In which case they unloaded us!

[Guest]

We have a decent manager, its only fair to keep our best assets and build on them. Would make a nice change from knocking it all down and building again as per norm.

We do seem to be on a continous rebuild plan, this has to stop and not go back to sq one again.

Yes trust the manager to ...well manage but this continous sell and build again and again is pointless and gets us no-where

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, BigAl&Toby said:

@Davefevs I’ll be totally upfront. I was being naughty. If we go down the Kelly/Webster/Brownhill route with any of them then that, for me, will again demonstrate the true commitment that the Exiles have to our club.

I purposely only mentioned these 3 as these are the chips that could most easily be cashed in for maximum cash.

There are several “Tyreeqs” who I’d expect to be gone - and could go for nothing as far as I’m concerned. 

If we’re ever to get to the Promised Land then we need to do everything we can to recruit, attract and retain quality. And yes. At whatever it takes.

None of this HPC, development and sell on clause nonsense.

Steve. Are you listening to The Sage?

Just hypothetically although I don't exactly disagree in principle, that sounds like cake and eat it to some extent given where we are at..I would ask the following 2-3?

1) What level of points deduction theoretically would you deem a price worth paying next season if we try to do it that way?

2) What level of Business Plan- remember too that the Business Plan follows the year of a Breach.

3) Indeed, is it possible to take that approach given that Championship clubs voted just this week that the EFL will be empowered to intervene with a Business Plan on a club ahead of a Projected Breach in order to seek to prevent that breach.

I'd also add that there are two different types of embargo that can be imposed on a club, if you harmonise it all you could combine the Business Plan ahead of a season with the appropriate type of embargo and perhaps attach a suspended points deduction to the Business Plan to kick in around March of the existing season if the hole isn't filled.

I'm not saying that all or even any of the above will happen to us, but I'm wondering what you deem a price worth paying?

I might also add, as I'm sure you are aware, clubs under Business Plan or Embargo restrictions are not only limited in terms of new signings but what they can offer as far as new contracts for existing players are concerned.

This could have a seriously detrimental impact on ability to recruit and retain.

Plus, of course Fixed Asset sale profits are excluded now from FFP, Related Party deals are at FAIR Value, and so on.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Feral Williams]

Regards the ‘yardstick’ that is Eze and Antoine’s value think it’s worth comparing stats. Eze’s breakthrough season he played 46 - scored 14 and assisted 8. Antoine has played 19 and in that time scored 6 and already has same amount of assists - I can see him getting close to similar goals and clearly blowing Eze out of the water with assists in the last 13 games. Antoine =

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, DaveInSA said:

Cant we fire the useful overpaid assholes that don’t even get in the bench - breach of contract or something - just so poor.

 

Sadly not, would only increase the hole/deficit if anything!

Edited February 20, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[RedEyez]

Can see O’Dowda being offloaded in the summer for sure. Pearson spoke about players being at a club for too long , when discussing Jamie Paterson’s departure, before the Swansea game. For me, O’Dowda definitely falls into that category and I think Pearson knows that too. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by RedEyez

[steviestevieneville]

We were talking about this after the game yesterday . It’s inevitable there will be bids for them in the summer. I don’t think we’d sell to another championship cub & who could afford them apart from a club with parachute money. If bids come from the prem , would they be better off in terms of playing time. They wouldn’t get into the starting 11 of bigger clubs. So do they got to a newly promoted club like possibly Fulham. I think they’re better off with us developing for another year at least . 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

For me a key issue is whether you can hang on to a player who wants to go.  I can see Massengo, in particular, and Semenyo slightly less so, being very keen for the club to accept an offer for them.  We have to have something to offer them if we are to persuade them that is in their interests to stay and that is tricky  given that Pearson’s ‘project’ is unlikely to be concluded next season.  Why should Massengo want to stay.

Scott, on the other hand, should be persuaded that it’s not in his best interests to go.

[redsquirrel]

4 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

If Scott were to be sold do we have a very nearly replacement in Benarous ? 

only way to find out is to play him more.he wont get to grips with championship football sitting on the bench. i find it absolutely amazing how scott has slotted in and already one of the best players. something very special there indeed. massengo and antoine also,plus id give massengo more time before deciding hes the one to sell, hes the one thats having to adapt and learn the most

[BigAl&Toby]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just hypothetically although I don't exactly disagree in principle, that sounds like cake and eat it to some extent given where we are at..I would ask the following 2-3?

1) What level of points deduction theoretically would you deem a price worth paying next season if we try to do it that way?

2) What level of Business Plan- remember too that the Business Plan follows the year of a Breach.

3) Indeed, is it possible to take that approach given that Championship clubs voted just this week that the EFL will be empowered to intervene with a Business Plan on a club ahead of a Projected Breach in order to seek to prevent that breach.

I'd also add that there are two different types of embargo that can be imposed on a club, if you harmonise it all you could combine the Business Plan ahead of a season with the appropriate type of embargo and perhaps attach a suspended points deduction to the Business Plan to kick in around March of the existing season if the hole isn't filled.

I'm not saying that all or even any of the above will happen to us, but I'm wondering what you deem a price worth paying?

I might also add, as I'm sure you are aware, clubs under Business Plan or Embargo restrictions are not only limited in terms of new signings but what they can offer as far as new contracts for existing players are concerned.

This could have a seriously detrimental impact on ability to recruit and retain.

Plus, of course Fixed Asset sale profits are excluded now from FFP, Related Party deals are at FAIR Value, and so on.

@Mr Popodopolous

Answers;

1. No idea.

2. No idea.

3. No idea.

My old employer - with whom I had the opportunity to meet one of the Exiles on more than one occasion - once said to me “you’re not a details man are you”….

I took that as a compliment. Little did I know that was a coded message

The thing is I’m not. A details man. Or one who’s vaguely interested in such detail. I’m more bigger picture. Not bound by constraints. An ideas man…….

Needless to say I’m now self-employed!

But enough of me. Three clubs. Brighton. Brentford. Burnley. 

Jesus Christ. Where were they then? Where were we then? Where are they now? Where are we now? Why?

And what a waste. Kelly. Webster. Brownhill.

Wasted opportunities. Story of BCFC. And if when the window opens the breeze blows and we kiss goodbye to these 3 then that’ll be 3 more names to add to that potentially ever growing list.

Meanwhile the likes of O’Dowda, Wells and Palmer will remain……

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

@Mr Popodopolous

Answers;

1. No idea.

2. No idea.

3. No idea.

My old employer - with whom I had the opportunity to meet one of the Exiles on more than one occasion - once said to me “you’re not a details man are you”….

I took that as a compliment. Little did I know that was a coded message

The thing is I’m not. A details man. Or one who’s vaguely interested in such detail. I’m more bigger picture. Not bound by constraints. An ideas man…….

Needless to say I’m now self-employed!

But enough of me. Three clubs. Brighton. Brentford. Burnley. 

Jesus Christ. Where were they then? Where were we then? Where are they now? Where are we now? Why?

And what a waste. Kelly. Webster. Brownhill.

Wasted opportunities. Story of BCFC. And if when the window opens the breeze blows and we kiss goodbye to these 3 then that’ll be 3 more names to add to that potentially ever growing list.

Meanwhile the likes of O’Dowda, Wells and Palmer will remain……

That's fair and tbh I'd love to keep all 3 and build. Perhaps I'm overly pessimistic in my forecasts, perhaps one or more of Webster and Kelly move for big fees, big sell on for us- breathing space!

I certainly think that between 2007/08 and now we have either failed or wasted opportunities 3-4 times. We spend a good slug in Jan 2008,  perhaps we go up or win playoffs!

Start wise 2017/18 and the positive momentum from the Cup run, missing the playoffs was a big disappointment.

2018/19, we flogged Pack and Brownhill to death, plus some misfortune with injuries in CM. Could another CM and striker in January 2019 have pushed us over the line into the top 6? Maybe!

Plus recent Cup experience of a lot of the players in both 2017/18, 2018/19 would have stood us in good stead for the playoffs.

2019/20, the football was worst of the 4 in the list. Otoh LJ got a lot of leeway in the market, should have made more of it I think. Losing in the first 6 weeks, Kalas, Dasilva, Nagy and Afobe to medium-long term injuries was unfortunate too, just as the new setup was clicking.

No doubt opportunities have been wasted, can't disagree with that at all.

If push comes to shove though, financially I believe we only need to sell one of the 3 this summer. Hopefully zero but at most one.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Southport Red]

6 hours ago, The Bard said:

Spot on Neil.  Scott hasn't just overtaken him, he's disappearing into the distance.    Was saying to @Huntstile Red yesterday that he runs around like a dog after a ball in the park.  Easily distracted from tracking his runner at times.    It could be that it all just comes together at a certain age like it has for Semenyo this season and like it did for Bobby Reid, but I suspect this will not be for a year or 2.  We could buy a proven replacement for a fraction of any fee who would be a mainstay in the side.  Maybe not as high a ceiling but a little more reliable and consistent.   We need a couple more like that if we're honest.

HNM was (by a country mile), the best player on the pitch at Deepdale. 

[Charlie BCFC]

I think the difference between Gould and Ashton, is that Ashton would look to sell at the first opportunity and Gould has said he’d rather take a points deduction than to sell our prized assets

Scott is 18 and this is his first full season in the league, tied him down the summer so I’m confident he’ll be here come the end of the season.

Semenyo we have no reason to sell, and looks like the club want to keep him.

Massengo is the one I’m worried about, looks like he enjoys it here but not long left on his deal and would want to play at the top level again

[Charlie BCFC]

11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's fair and tbh I'd love to keep all 3 and build. Perhaps I'm overly pessimistic in my forecasts, perhaps one or more of Webster and Kelly move for big fees, big sell on for us- breathing space!

I certainly think that between 2007/08 and now we have either failed or wasted opportunities 3-4 times. We spend a good slug in Jan 2008,  perhaps we go up or win playoffs!

Start wise 2017/18 and the positive momentum from the Cup run, missing the playoffs was a big disappointment.

2018/19, we flogged Pack and Brownhill to death, plus some misfortune with injuries in CM. Could another CM and striker in January 2019 have pushed us over the line into the top 6? Maybe!

Plus recent Cup experience of a lot of the players in both 2017/18, 2018/19 would have stood us in good stead for the playoffs.

2019/20, the football was worst of the 4 in the list. Otoh LJ got a lot of leeway in the market, should have made more of it I think. Losing in the first 6 weeks, Kalas, Dasilva, Nagy and Afobe to medium-long term injuries was unfortunate too, just as the new setup was clicking.

No doubt opportunities have been wasted, can't disagree with that at all.

If push comes to shove though, financially I believe we only need to sell one of the 3 this summer. Hopefully zero but at most one.

This is probably unpopular but 18/19 was the best team we had. Quite simply the teams above us were incredibly strong, much stronger than the top of the division this year. Personally think the only two teams that are definitely stronger than the 18/19 side are Fulham and Bournemouth