Coventry’s Winner

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, maxjak said:

The odd mistake by HNM is no bad thing IMHO (Not that he is entirely to blame for 2nd goal, Dasilva should have clipped it forward, and Williams tackle was lame) as he is till a young lad, with loads of talent, prone to the occasional error?  I am  hopeful that potential suitors will look at him as a work in progress, and will hold back with large bids until they see him continue to play Championship football, and show consistency?   If we can hold onto our triumverate of exceptional talent, and add to it in the summer, I can see an entertaining season on the horizon in 2022/23?    Here's  to HNM - Antione and Alex making a few more cock ups in the coming months  Ha!!

 

I think that's a guarantee.  If they made no mistakes they wouldn't be here, but in the Eithad or the Parc des Princes or somewhere!   

[Alessandro]

Yes you can look at HNM and you can look at Williams.

But as the pics showed we were basically 3 on 2 as they were breaking. 

HNM always behind the player with the ball.

Klose had to stand his ground and face the player with the ball, despite having a runner on his left.

Kalas caught standing ground, covering Klose, half-shifting to his left in case the pass went left and half keeping an eye on his right for that runner. For me Kalas was damned either way.

Reality is with both Pring and Dasilva pushing for the winner, and lagging cover from HNM, the two CB were left high and dry pretty much 3 on 2. 

Classic break goal.

[PHILINFRANCE]

I understand perfectly that 'taking one for the team' is not very sporting, cheating even, but sometimes needs must.

These are all professional players, and I would suggest, to a man, they all understand what is happening, and why.

It happens at the highest levels (remember the Saurez handball against Ghana, the save that prevented Ghana being the first African team to reach a World Cup semi final?). The record books show that it was Uruguay who won the match (on penalties ) and advanced.

 

A more relevant example, i.e. concerning a foul, concerns Real Madrid's Valverde in the Spanish Super Cup final against Atletico Madrid.

Quite correctly, Valverde received a red card, but when he left the pitch he received a sympathetic pat from Atletic's Manager, Diego Simeone.

Diego Simeone is no stranger to controversy himself, of course, and many may recall his involvement in a World Cup red card during the 1998 World Cup.

It is easy to criticise from the armchair, but, like it or not, sometimes a player needs to take one for the team.

[GrahamC]

40 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Pains me to say it, but if we could get £4-5m for Kalas and keep the other 3, I think you can replace a CB easier.  He does some brilliant, brave stuff, but not without a mistake either.  Still rate him though.

I’m a big fan of Kalas but so would I.

Can’t see it happening though, if he didn’t move on after a season that ended with his playing in the semi final of the Euros I can’t see him doing so after a season in one of the Championships’ worst defences.

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I’m a big fan of Kalas but so would I.

Can’t see it happening though, if he didn’t move on after a season that ended with his playing in the semi final of the Euros I can’t see him doing so after a season in one of the Championships’ worst defences.

Good point made.  Need to find a way to be creative with a contract extension.  Even if we carried on paying him £25k, smoothing his £2m value in the books over a few seasons would be hugely beneficial.  Ideally he takes a wage cut too.  But extending to 2024 saves us £1.333m next year, which is our worst year according to my projections.

[The Bard]

59 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

I know its not a popular opinion but I dont think TK is as good as others seem to think he is. Boro last minute goal on weekend down to him too.

Don't get me wrong, he is by no means a bad defender. But seems to make a lot of positional errors. Sacrilege to say, but I wouldn't be too gutted if he moved on in summer or even if, once definitely safe, we maybe start giving other options a bit more of a go. Would really like to see more of Cundy.  Maybe even Idehen. And have Atkinson and Towler to come back in at some point. 

The Boro goal was a goalkeeping error

 He headed in from 4 yards out in the middle of the goal from a corner. That simply shouldn't ever happen. Their keeper caught a corner last night from the very same spot. Routine. 

[1960maaan]

11 minutes ago, The Bard said:

The Boro goal was a goalkeeping error

 He headed in from 4 yards out in the middle of the goal from a corner. That simply shouldn't ever happen. Their keeper caught a corner last night from the very same spot. Routine. 

There is one big , BIG difference. If it's the cross I'm thinking of (we chatted about it at the time), there was no pressure from one of our players, in fact there was no one in his way at all. Vs Boro, they had a guy on Bentley every Corner. Now I questioned Bentleys strength, but having no one pushing him, just gives him a freebee.

[maxjak]

45 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I understand perfectly that 'taking one for the team' is not very sporting, cheating even, but sometimes needs must.

These are all professional players, and I would suggest, to a man, they all understand what is happening, and why.

It happens at the highest levels (remember the Saurez handball against Ghana, the save that prevented Ghana being the first African team to reach a World Cup semi final?). The record books show that it was Uruguay who won the match (on penalties ) and advanced.

 

A more relevant example, i.e. concerning a foul, concerns Real Madrid's Valverde in the Spanish Super Cup final against Atletico Madrid.

Quite correctly, Valverde received a red card, but when he left the pitch he received a sympathetic pat from Atletic's Manager, Diego Simeone.

Diego Simeone is no stranger to controversy himself, of course, and many may recall his involvement in a World Cup red card during the 1998 World Cup.

It is easy to criticise from the armchair, but, like it or not, sometimes a player needs to take one for the team.

The first three were reasonable examples of professional intervention for the good of the team..............Beckham's was selfish  unprofessional petulance, if I was one of his team mate's I would have ripped him a new one!.....Complete Merchant banker?

[PHILINFRANCE]

3 minutes ago, maxjak said:

The first three were reasonable examples of professional intervention for the good of the team..............Beckham's was selfish  unprofessional petulance, if I was one of his team mate's I would have ripped him a new one!.....Complete Merchant banker?

Well, Yes, I agree about Beckham, but I was just linking Simeone, who was able to give a comforting, 'sporting' pat to Valverde, who had just deprivedhis team of a winning goal, saying 'Don't worry about it mate, I would have done the same thing for the good of the team', as, in fact, he had done a similar thing some years previously.

[GrahamC]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Good point made.  Need to find a way to be creative with a contract extension.  Even if we carried on paying him £25k, smoothing his £2m value in the books over a few seasons would be hugely beneficial.  Ideally he takes a wage cut too.  But extending to 2024 saves us £1.333m next year, which is our worst year according to my projections.

There is definitely a conversation to be had this summer.

He has been in Bristol for longer than anywhere in his career now (the reality is he wasn’t really ever AT Chelsea, was he?).

As I understand it he’s happily settled in LA (Long Ashton) & his partner is from this part of the world.

If he wants to stay beyond his current contract he needs to realise we cannot afford to pay him the sum he is currently on, if he is willing to compromise, perhaps not quite as much as Weimann but going in that direction then I’m sure we will listen, otherwise next season will be his last with us.

[Kibs]

Collection of errors but doesn’t change my mind at all from first viewing last night.

If I’m HNM, there is no way that player is getting a pass or shot off after I’ve made the initial error. Stopping the attack by any means  necessary gives us the best chance of not conceding. Sorry. 

It doesn’t detract from an excellent performance btw because some of the football we played last night was a joy to watch. Such a young team and hopefully next time, he doesn’t think twice. 

[tin]

3 hours ago, headhunter said:

wtf is Kalas doing!!! Last but one picture - no need for him to move left

Partly at fault for both goals last night.

If ever there was a case for a tactical foul, this was it. Annoying.

[red colin]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

It’s things like this that is another reason why I think Han will still be here next season (and will sign a contract).

If you were a scout for another club, how would you “sell him” to the prospective manager / recruitment team? Especially if you need to pay £10m plus for him (assuming he’s worth more than last summer’s £8m).

I rate him, he’s plenty good enough for our level, but there are things in his game he needs to improve.  He needs another season of growth - with us.  Nige is handling his “inconsistent form” well, he’s a bit up and down, partly due to the slightly frenetic way he plays”, and that must count for a lot, to be trusted by the manager.

I might be wrong, just my view.

Agree I don't think he has improved at all ,potential is there yes but he has been around the first team longer than Scott or Benarous but I believe those 2 at least are progressing quicker than Massengo who works hard but basics ie passing needs attention he passed short on several occasions. 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, red colin said:

Agree I don't think he has improved at all ,potential is there yes but he has been around the first team longer than Scott or Benarous but I believe those 2 at least are progressing quicker than Massengo who works hard but basics ie passing needs attention he passed short on several occasions. 

In fairness, I think he burst on the scene, then went backwards for a period for various reasons, e.g. building physique, drain of the Champ, confidence, tactics, etc.

I think he’s getting it back, still a bit erratic, but he’s getting there.  I really think he will benefit from being here next season under Nige.

[red colin]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In fairness, I think he burst on the scene, then went backwards for a period for various reasons, e.g. building physique, drain of the Champ, confidence, tactics, etc.

I think he’s getting it back, still a bit erratic, but he’s getting there.  I really think he will benefit from being here next season under Nige.

Yep,I may be a little harsh out of frustration but any young player staying under Nigel next season will be better for it providing they get picked after possible summer signings. Would think we would at least bring in a midfield player and with James and Williams being fit I think Massengo will be a squad player and want to move on.

[RedorDead BCFC]

The one thing I noticed last night and on Saturday that Kalas seemed to always chose to pass Klose, rather than passing to Bell who was pushing forward. 
Playing with young players is good, but like when Coventry scored their heads dropped. That’s when you need the more mature players to help lift them. Something I don’t think we’re seeing. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by RedorDead BCFC

[22A]

That winning goal, like so many conceded this season, has been by the opponents coming down their left, our right to score.

We've not had the same players there all season, but why the constant leak?

[RobintheRed Red]

7 hours ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

Poor from Massengo but worse from Williams especially as he's the one player on the pitch you'd expect to absolutely clatter the Coventry man in that situation.

Kalas looking like an amateur level defender in that 4th picture, so poor from someone of his experience.

Still think it started with Dasilva putting a shit backwards pass for Massengo he was always struggling to get back.

[red colin]

2 hours ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Still think it started with Dasilva putting a shit backwards pass for Massengo he was always struggling to get back.

Well Massengo touted as going to premiership but I have not seen anything to think he is too good for us. If I'm honest so far he is a bit of a myth promise but no improvement. 

[RobintheRed Red]

11 minutes ago, red colin said:

Well Massengo touted as going to premiership but I have not seen anything to think he is too good for us. If I'm honest so far he is a bit of a myth promise but no improvement. 

Well obviously Southampton Watford and others don't agree with you .

[Waconda]

Massengo should never have been given the ball in the situation he was in,  bad pass back by him and if ODowda had put in a non tackle like Williams did many on here would be on here wanting him strung up !

As said a catalogue of errors and poor reaction all around.

[Waconda]

10 hours ago, red colin said:

Well Massengo touted as going to premiership but I have not seen anything to think he is too good for us. If I'm honest so far he is a bit of a myth promise but no improvement. 

Same was said about Brownhill by many on here.

Safe to say HNM will be a Prem player in the next year or two.

[1960maaan]

14 hours ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

The one thing I noticed last night and on Saturday that Kalas seemed to always chose to pass Klose, rather than passing to Bell who was pushing forward. 
Playing with young players is good, but like when Coventry scored their heads dropped. That’s when you need the more mature players to help lift them. Something I don’t think we’re seeing. 

I said similar on another thread.
I don't think Bell was great first half, caught in two minds on several occasions. But he never stopped making runs, finding space or making himself available. Kalas seemed to ignore that pass a lot. Could have given the kid the ball early, with space, but continually went the other way and started keep ball spells with Klose. 

It did seem odd.

[Waconda]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

I said similar on another thread.
I don't think Bell was great first half, caught in two minds on several occasions. But he never stopped making runs, finding space or making himself available. Kalas seemed to ignore that pass a lot. Could have given the kid the ball early, with space, but continually went the other way and started keep ball spells with Klose. 

It did seem odd.

Think he was "gun shy" of an 18 year old centre forward playing at right back.

Understandable though frustrating.

[Port Said Red]

I would imagine that the Coventry equivalent of @Davefevs must be writing an essay on our goal. For what appeared to be a well organised side it was shockingly bad. Scott takes the corner and wanders 15 metres unmarked to a better position and receive the ball from a very comfortable Dasilva. Scott floats the ball to the far post to a completely unmarked Weimann who heads it back across the goal to a completely unmarked Martin. Great from us, terrible from their perspective. I suppose my point is that there aren't many goals you can analyse where there isn't a better option to be taken by the opposing players.

[1960maaan]

2 hours ago, VT05763 said:

Think he was "gun shy" of an 18 year old centre forward playing at right back.

Understandable though frustrating.

That would explain it if it was Bell's first start, it was the same set up as last Saturday.
Maybe after Bell got caught in possession a couple of times he hesitated, but the lad is part of the team, and was constantly available . Madness basically playing a man short. 

[Mad Cyril]

I was disappointed by our bench at the point leading up to conceding the late goal.

Why the hell didn't Vyner sprint on to the pitch and clothesline their striker? Yes a straight red  but we are still left with 11 men on the field.

Basics.

[HappyClapper]

25 minutes ago, Mad Cyril said:

I was disappointed by our bench at the point leading up to conceding the late goal.

Why the hell didn't Vyner sprint on to the pitch and clothesline their striker? Yes a straight red  but we are still left with 11 men on the field.

Basics.

I wasn’t expecting it to be Vyner’s fault.
(Un)professional foul?

Edited February 24, 2022 by HappyClapper

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I would imagine that the Coventry equivalent of @Davefevs must be writing an essay on our goal. For what appeared to be a well organised side it was shockingly bad. Scott takes the corner and wanders 15 metres unmarked to a better position and receive the ball from a very comfortable Dasilva. Scott floats the ball to the far post to a completely unmarked Weimann who heads it back across the goal to a completely unmarked Martin. Great from us, terrible from their perspective. I suppose my point is that there aren't many goals you can analyse where there isn't a better option to be taken by the opposing players.

I actually said to the guy who sits next to me “Coventry are leaving two up, and we’ve decided to go 2v2, that gives us an extra man”.

And it probably enabled us to create the 2v1 with Scott and Dasilva.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 23/02/2022 at 15:25, The Bard said:

The Boro goal was a goalkeeping error

 He headed in from 4 yards out in the middle of the goal from a corner. That simply shouldn't ever happen. Their keeper caught a corner last night from the very same spot. Routine. 

Was he (Bentley) being impeded at all- I watched it on the highlights a couple of times and couldn't make my mind up, If he was impeded of course, shouldn't have been a goal.

Or am I clutching- appealing for something, looking for something that wasn't there.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous