That ones on Nige today

[1960maaan]

20 minutes ago, Miah Dennehy said:

Exactly, and considering Tisdale only got 10 games, Barton  has got lucky . To be fair to him, this team do look like they have a bit about them and obviously I'm pleased about that, but they went down with a whimper last season and that was on Barton's watch. Anyway, I digress, I think clubs absolutely should give managers more time, it might work out and it might not , but they deserve time.

Of course, one downside of managers being given more time and it not working out, is that forums will be full of ******* saying 'I said we should have sacked him ages ago', conveniently forgetting that they say that about every bleedin manager the club have ever had.

It's a problem for everyone. Short termism affects Clubs that want success now so pressure managers. Managers can't build as they'd like so try and buy oven ready teams, which can put pressure on Owners & players. Owners are asked to spend more to buy First team ready players. Players are under pressure to succeed and the younger ones aren't given the chance to grow naturally.

Mind you, we seemed to manage to get it completely wrong AND give a manager time. Johnson was given plenty of time to get everything in place, but we gave him a CEO keener on making himself appear good than actually working for the club .
Giving managers time is right, if they have a long term plan and aren't just winging it.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, firstdivision said:

What do you think of Paul Warne, Dave?

I like him a lot. He’d be right up there in my list if we had to appoint a new manager. 

[Simon bristol]

1 hour ago, firstdivision said:

Yes, the signings of Simpson and King were laughable. And I'm not being wise after the event. I said it at the time. 

Yes, baker was always a risk too. And we spent 2 million on 2 lower league defenders who may or may not work out, but havent made much of an impact.

[1960maaan]

7 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Yes, baker was always a risk too. And we spent 2 million on 2 lower league defenders who may or may not work out, but havent made much of an impact.

Really ,Injuries can't be helped , but I'm quite pleased with what I've seen so far. Allowing for a big step up in standards, very quickly in Atkinson's case , I think I've seen some real promise. Playing in a massively inconsistent , sometimes struggling side hasn't helped, or injuries. 
 

[Bedred31]

On one point About NP I am increasingly mystified- his stance on loan players coming in. I get the group ethos vibe on which his whole management strategy is based, but at present it seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face. Yes, they can be expensive mistakes ( it may be a geological period before we go near Liverpool again), but they can work well, both temporarily and permanently. He was complaining yesterday about the lack of an experienced/ specialist right back, defensive midfielder. Given we can’t afford to buy either without letting players go, surely a couple of decent loan attempts could have significantly improved our season?

[GrahamC]

21 minutes ago, Bedred31 said:

On one point About NP I am increasingly mystified- his stance on loan players coming in. I get the group ethos vibe on which his whole management strategy is based, but at present it seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face. Yes, they can be expensive mistakes ( it may be a geological period before we go near Liverpool again), but they can work well, both temporarily and permanently. He was complaining yesterday about the lack of an experienced/ specialist right back, defensive midfielder. Given we can’t afford to buy either without letting players go, surely a couple of decent loan attempts could have significantly improved our season?

If we “can’t afford to buy”, what makes you think that loan players are any cheaper?

Mawson & Sessegnon (currently a sub for Plymouth) cost us a rumoured £750k last season before taking into account their wages.

Clubs don’t give you these players for free.

I have posted this several times, we have calculated that we will stay up without loans, so unless there was a player we were looking at as a permanent addition this summer we aren’t interested in them.

[Mr Popodopolous]

56 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

If we “can’t afford to buy”, what makes you think that loan players are any cheaper?

Mawson & Sessegnon (currently a sub for Plymouth) cost us a rumoured £750k last season before taking into account their wages.

Clubs don’t give you these players for free.

I have posted this several times, we have calculated that we will stay up without loans, so unless there was a player we were looking at as a permanent addition this summer we aren’t interested in them.

While I don't necessarily disagree and bang on about finances a lot, the number of clubs- some of whom may well have serious FFP q's either now or in the near future, who use the loan market and have done extensively this season despite this is striking.

Cardiff, Middlesbrough, Nottingham Forest and Stoke all spring to mind- unsure those loans come cheap as you rightly say.

Birmingham too- Sanderson (early termination), Mengi- Jan-June, Chong, Hernandez- again Jan-June. Maybe others too?

Of course if the loans don't specifically improve us it's cash down the drain- just wonder how our approach compares to some comparable clubs.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[redsquirrel]

why cant we start with JD on the right again with Pring on the left but tell Pring to conserve his energy a bit or get Semenyo to help him out with some of the running so he lasts 90 minutes

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

While I don't necessarily disagree and bang on about finances a lot, the number of clubs- some of whom may well have serious FFP q's either now or in the near future, who use the loan market and have done extensively this season despite this is striking.

Cardiff, Middlesbrough, Nottingham Forest and Stoke all spring to mind- unsure those loans come cheap as you rightly say.

Birmingham too- Sanderson (early termination), Mengi- Jan-June, Chong, Hernandez- again Jan-June. Maybe others too?

Of course if the loans don't specifically improve us it's cash down the drain- just wonder how our approach compares to some comparable clubs.

Interesting mention of Brum, when all those loans return in the summer, how do they improve their squad for next season?  Their squad going into the summer will be weaker as a starting point!

[pillred]

8 hours ago, nickolas said:

What is it with posters reacting like a complete pr!ck to a post on a forum full of opinions. Bet you’re fun at parties and your wife really loves you. 

Oh dear had a sense of humour bypass? and yes I have been married for 37 years and yes she does, and as for being fun at parties well if you want to find me I'm always in the kitchen.  

[Waconda]

On 05/03/2022 at 21:28, richyy66 said:

We don't bring in Loan players cause we have not got a pot to piss in.  Next year will be the same so we may as well get used to it. Frustrating all round....

Nope, brought in 3 has been, injury prone . ex Leicester mates of his instead. Chewing up the limited budget we did have.

On the plus side was one them as the super power of invisibility.

 

[lenred]

12 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

While I don't necessarily disagree and bang on about finances a lot, the number of clubs- some of whom may well have serious FFP q's either now or in the near future, who use the loan market and have done extensively this season despite this is striking.

Cardiff, Middlesbrough, Nottingham Forest and Stoke all spring to mind- unsure those loans come cheap as you rightly say.

Birmingham too- Sanderson (early termination), Mengi- Jan-June, Chong, Hernandez- again Jan-June. Maybe others too?

Of course if the loans don't specifically improve us it's cash down the drain- just wonder how our approach compares to some comparable clubs.

We’re in a worse position financially than those clubs mentioned though aren’t we? So have to be even more careful / prudent? 

[DaveInSA]

Pearson just shoulder some part of the blame, ITO selection, tactics and formation.

But, the players aren’t mentally strong enough as a collective. We’ve seen it for 5 years now, since we famously bottled it in 2017/18. 

We have no leaders on the pitch.

We gift goals to the opposition.

We can’t defend a lead.

We literally fall to pieces at critical points in the game.

In my opinion supported by the above facts, we have several championship quality players but not a championship quality team.

And football is a team game.

and we have naff all money to fix it.

We still have no backbone, and teams know we capitulate.

We need at least 6 players in the off season. LB, RB, 2*CB, DCM, Attacker. All first team ready. All proven champ quality. Approx value 50m. Which ain’t gonna happen.

3 years is the project timeline. We’re 1 year in.  I expect consolidation in 2022/3. 

Top 8 in 2023/4.

[DaveInSA]

5 hours ago, VT05763 said:

Nope, brought in 3 has been, injury prone . ex Leicester mates of his instead. Chewing up the limited budget we did have.

On the plus side was one them as the super power of invisibility.

 

Who else was available?

and who would come here after that debacle of last season?

and given our prior scattergun recruitment approach? 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

Pearson just shoulder some part of the blame, ITO selection, tactics and formation.

But, the players aren’t mentally strong enough as a collective. We’ve seen it for 5 years now, since we famously bottled it in 2017/18. 

We have no leaders on the pitch.

We gift goals to the opposition.

We can’t defend a lead.

We literally fall to pieces at critical points in the game.

In my opinion supported by the above facts, we have several championship quality players but not a championship quality team.

And football is a team game.

and we have naff all money to fix it.

We still have no backbone, and teams know we capitulate.

We need at least 6 players in the off season. LB, RB, 2*CB, DCM, Attacker. All first team ready. All proven champ quality. Approx value 50m. Which ain’t gonna happen.

3 years is the project timeline. We’re 1 year in.  I expect consolidation in 2022/3. 

Top 8 in 2023/4.

Brill post.

Ill wait for Aug/Sept before responding to your last two paras!

[Shuffle]

4 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

Pearson just shoulder some part of the blame, ITO selection, tactics and formation.

But, the players aren’t mentally strong enough as a collective. We’ve seen it for 5 years now, since we famously bottled it in 2017/18. 

We have no leaders on the pitch.

We gift goals to the opposition.

We can’t defend a lead.

We literally fall to pieces at critical points in the game.

In my opinion supported by the above facts, we have several championship quality players but not a championship quality team.

And football is a team game.

and we have naff all money to fix it.

We still have no backbone, and teams know we capitulate.

We need at least 6 players in the off season. LB, RB, 2*CB, DCM, Attacker. All first team ready. All proven champ quality. Approx value 50m. Which ain’t gonna happen.

3 years is the project timeline. We’re 1 year in.  I expect consolidation in 2022/3. 

Top 8 in 2023/4.

Agree with most of this but the most depressing part of Saturday was that our spine featured experienced and capable championship players but they looked lost with what they were asked to do.  If you look at Sat we had Bentley, Klose/kalas, Williams/James, Martin/Weimann.    Add in our most talented players such as Scott/Semenyo plus JD that only leaves one you would say isn’t championship ready in Bell.   Am I kidding myself in that these players mentioned should be more than good enough to compete?  Are there really no leaders out of spine of team ? 
 

I’m not sure where the problem is and maybe I’m rose tinted about how good some of our players are but surely we should be doing better. Roll on 3 years as I’ve hated the last 2. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Shuffle said:

Agree with most of this but the most depressing part of Saturday was that our spine featured experienced and capable championship players but they looked lost with what they were asked to do.  If you look at Sat we had Bentley, Klose/kalas, Williams/James, Martin/Weimann.    Add in our most talented players such as Scott/Semenyo plus JD that only leaves one you would say isn’t championship ready in Bell.   Am I kidding myself in that these players mentioned should be more than good enough to compete?  Are there really no leaders out of spine of team ? 
 

I’m not sure where the problem is and maybe I’m rose tinted about how good some of our players are but surely we should be doing better. Roll on 3 years as I’ve hated the last 2. 

I think we are better than what we showed first half v Brum.  Too many players below par.

Matty James first start back, let’s see what he’s like over the next couple of games.

Need to somehow build some semblance of partnerships / pairings, too many changes game to game in personnel and positions.  It’s not been easy due to injuries, but hopefully a first team group now returning in the main.

[The Bard]

22 hours ago, GrahamC said:

If we “can’t afford to buy”, what makes you think that loan players are any cheaper?

Mawson & Sessegnon (currently a sub for Plymouth) cost us a rumoured £750k last season before taking into account their wages.

Clubs don’t give you these players for free.

I have posted this several times, we have calculated that we will stay up without loans, so unless there was a player we were looking at as a permanent addition this summer we aren’t interested in them.

Loan players are a classic false economy.  For every Tammy Abraham there is a long long list of total failures.