“The fans choice”

[Lack of Action Man]

Just thought I’d gauge people’s opinion on why it is that when we seemingly get a managerial appointment that is endorsed by a reasonable portion of the fan base, the result ends up being totally underwhelming? 
 

I was very much excited by NP’s appointment, to the point where I bought my first ST since SC’s final season. For me, despite the financial constraints, injuries and rumours of total mismanagement behind the scenes, I expected quite a bit more from Nigel Pearson.  I expected more i.e. a definitive style of play (we seem to be slowly getting this), but also a resolute mentality that we would be hard to beat and always claw our way back into a game (which we aren’t and don’t). I’m not saying I thought we’d be play off contenders, but to be languishing in the lower half has me feeling very… meh

I was excited when we appointed Coppell and that went totally tits up. I was excited, perhaps less so, by SOD and that was something of a disaster. I didn’t really know what to make of SC, who turned out to be excellent in league one, and (like many I suspect) I had a somewhat marmite view of LJ. The less said about the astonishing ineptitude of appointing DH the better. 
 

So why is it that when we get “the fans choice” (or at least my preferred choice ) things go to pot? Financial mismanagement? Fallings out with the board or players? Honestly it has me baffled. Maybe I am the curse somehow?!

I desperately want NP to succeed but at the moment I just can’t see it. I want to be proven wrong!

[Rich]

S L likes to be proven right. He appoints fans favourites when in dire situations and appoints his favourites when the going is good. Ultimately it all ends in abject failure.

[sticks 1969]

NP must stay and be given time 

 

[Northern Red]

The type of manager that a lot of fans tend to want is the proven, experienced type who knows what a successful, well-run football club looks like and what it might take to get to that point.

Unfortunately, these types do not tend to be a good match with the hierarchy at Bristol City.

[Redandproud]

8 minutes ago, sticks 1969 said:

NP must stay and be given time 

 

Do I smell gas?

[exAtyeoMax]

9 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

Just thought I’d gauge people’s opinion on why it is that when we seemingly get a managerial appointment that is endorsed by a reasonable portion of the fan base, the result ends up being totally underwhelming? 
 

I was very much excited by NP’s appointment, to the point where I bought my first ST since SC’s final season. For me, despite the financial constraints, injuries and rumours of total mismanagement behind the scenes, I expected quite a bit more from Nigel Pearson.  I expected more i.e. a definitive style of play (we seem to be slowly getting this), but also a resolute mentality that we would be hard to beat and always claw our way back into a game (which we aren’t and don’t). I’m not saying I thought we’d be play off contenders, but to be languishing in the lower half has me feeling very… meh

I was excited when we appointed Coppell and that went totally tits up. I was excited, perhaps less so, by SOD and that was something of a disaster. I didn’t really know what to make of SC, who turned out to be excellent in league one, and (like many I suspect) I had a somewhat marmite view of LJ. The less said about the astonishing ineptitude of appointing DH the better. 
 

So why is it that when we get “the fans choice” (or at least my preferred choice ) things go to pot? Financial mismanagement? Fallings out with the board or players? Honestly it has me baffled. Maybe I am the curse somehow?!

I desperately want NP to succeed but at the moment I just can’t see it. I want to be proven wrong!

The problem is that there are too many variables to quantify it in those terms. It appears to be a more complex problem which is fluid, constantly changing and evolving, whether it be finances, players, personalities, personnel (management as well as players), recruitment…

[blockbrowt1]

11 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

Just thought I’d gauge people’s opinion on why it is that when we seemingly get a managerial appointment that is endorsed by a reasonable portion of the fan base, the result ends up being totally underwhelming? 
 

I was very much excited by NP’s appointment, to the point where I bought my first ST since SC’s final season. For me, despite the financial constraints, injuries and rumours of total mismanagement behind the scenes, I expected quite a bit more from Nigel Pearson.  I expected more i.e. a definitive style of play (we seem to be slowly getting this), but also a resolute mentality that we would be hard to beat and always claw our way back into a game (which we aren’t and don’t). I’m not saying I thought we’d be play off contenders, but to be languishing in the lower half has me feeling very… meh

I was excited when we appointed Coppell and that went totally tits up. I was excited, perhaps less so, by SOD and that was something of a disaster. I didn’t really know what to make of SC, who turned out to be excellent in league one, and (like many I suspect) I had a somewhat marmite view of LJ. The less said about the astonishing ineptitude of appointing DH the better. 
 

So why is it that when we get “the fans choice” (or at least my preferred choice ) things go to pot? Financial mismanagement? Fallings out with the board or players? Honestly it has me baffled. Maybe I am the curse somehow?!

I desperately want NP to succeed but at the moment I just can’t see it. I want to be proven wrong!

My thoughts as well. If we aren't in the top half and maybe pushing for the playoffs next season after the next transfer window I think he should go. I am fed up with this season and want it to end asap. Can't remember feeling so angry in my 50 years of support, but there must of been seasons just as bad tbh tho.  Don't think I can put up with another bad one next season. Rant over.

[Mad Cyril]

I have put a lot of thought into this and concluded we are just $$$t

[daored]

I wanted Pearson and wanted him pre Johnson and again when Holden was appointed. The mess this club is in right now we need an experienced manager, I believe one of the reasons Pearson has stuck around is the promising younger players we currently have. 
The club is a mess and for that the blame has to go to the top, how do we not have a recruitment scout is amazing.
Is Pearson without blame? No he isn’t, we appear to lack organisation and our defending  at times is awful.

A number of these players in their comfort zone , good wages, good lifestyle and been here too long; O’Dowda, Palmer, Vyner , Moore and Bakinson (although on loan) all players who go back two managers to when they were signed.

We’re heading towards league one unfortunately, Pearson is part of the problem but the problem is much bigger than him. If he were to leave , who’d come in? We’ve got no money to entice and a squad low on quality

[sh1t_ref_again]

18 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

The type of manager that a lot of fans tend to want is the proven, experienced type who knows what a successful, well-run football club looks like and what it might take to get to that point.

Unfortunately, these types do not tend to be a good match with the hierarchy at Bristol City.

So basically Nigel Pearson?

[Bristol Oil Services]

27 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

Just thought I’d gauge people’s opinion on why it is that when we seemingly get a managerial appointment that is endorsed by a reasonable portion of the fan base, the result ends up being totally underwhelming? 
 

I was very much excited by NP’s appointment, to the point where I bought my first ST since SC’s final season. For me, despite the financial constraints, injuries and rumours of total mismanagement behind the scenes, I expected quite a bit more from Nigel Pearson.  I expected more i.e. a definitive style of play (we seem to be slowly getting this), but also a resolute mentality that we would be hard to beat and always claw our way back into a game (which we aren’t and don’t). I’m not saying I thought we’d be play off contenders, but to be languishing in the lower half has me feeling very… meh

I was excited when we appointed Coppell and that went totally tits up. I was excited, perhaps less so, by SOD and that was something of a disaster. I didn’t really know what to make of SC, who turned out to be excellent in league one, and (like many I suspect) I had a somewhat marmite view of LJ. The less said about the astonishing ineptitude of appointing DH the better. 
 

So why is it that when we get “the fans choice” (or at least my preferred choice ) things go to pot? Financial mismanagement? Fallings out with the board or players? Honestly it has me baffled. Maybe I am the curse somehow?!

I desperately want NP to succeed but at the moment I just can’t see it. I want to be proven wrong!

It's like the best time to plant a tree being twenty years ago and all that, we might've got Nige in 2016 when we had a group of decent lads struggling to step up and Nige hadn't yet been struck down with covid (if someone hadn't been set on having Mark Ashton and Lee Johnson).

In other words, our timing's shit. Like Phil Tufnell batting.

I still expect us to appoint Moyesie, but in about 25 years and only when he needs us more than we need him (because he's lost it). And maybe Joe Royle, who we coul've had twice before (when he was top notch).

[Bristol Rob]

9 minutes ago, Mad Cyril said:

I have put a lot of thought into this and concluded we are just $$$t

That's pretty much it.

Not sure we can blame anyone in particular as it seems to be very much a team effort in coming to a concensus that ultimately means we fail, yes, there was Mark Ashton, but in theory he should have been challenged by LJ, SL and his boy.

SL has consistently opened the cheque book to support managers, usually resulting in over paid injured players who are a burden.

We have had managers who had unrealistic expectations and gone stale.

We have had more strategies and pillars than we known what to do with, and we have failed to capitalise on those rare occasions we looked close to achieving something.

All told, we seem to go from average decision to average decision, and whilst lessons are learnt and publicly acknowledge, a few years on and we make the same mistakes again.

It's as if decisions are reached by committee with no clear direction, and long term planning is a series of unconvincing buzz words.

Still, what else are you going to do with your Saturday afternoons.

[exAtyeoMax]

9 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

So basically Nigel Pearson?

Not every experienced, proven manager is like Nigel Pearson. They are all unique.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, blockbrowt1 said:

If we aren't in the top half and maybe pushing for the playoffs next season after the next transfer window I think he should go

Might it be prudent to see what actually pans out in the summer transfer window first.

Its conceivable that our squad could actually be weaker come Aug / Sept?  That sounds a ridiculous statement, but we still have to cut costs further to avoid breaking FFP next season.

For example, ”selling” the ones not on the bus - Moore, Vyner, Bakinson….that doesn’t generate enough on its own to cover the cost reductions required.

For example, not exercising the year options on the contracts of O’Dowda, Martin, doesn’t generate enough it’s own either.

For example, letting go those OOC - Cundy, Klose, King, doesn’t generate enough on its own either. 

Now, you might think most aren’t a great loss, but it costs to replace them, and you have to replace some of them at least.

So, just imagine we let all 8 go, that might get us somewhere near, but still a bit short of FFP compliance.  I’m gonna make a big assumption that Baker retires and it costs us to pay him up.

Our squad entering the summer would be:

Bentley / O’Leary (2)

Tanner / Kalas / Atkinson / Pring / Dasilva (5)

James / Palmer / Williams / Scott / Massengo / Benarous (6)

Wells / Weimann / Semenyo / Conway / Bell (5)

Plus:

Towler / Edwards / Janneh (all have played first team for City)

Are you still pushing top half / playoffs?

 

[Lack of Action Man]

6 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

It's like the best time to plant a tree being twenty years ago and all that, we might've got Nige in 2016 when we had a group of decent lads struggling to step up and Nige hadn't yet been struck down with covid (if someone hadn't been set on having Mark Ashton and Lee Johnson).

In other words, our timing's shit. Like Phil Tufnell batting.

I still expect us to appoint Moyesie, but in about 25 years and only when he needs us more than we need him (because he's lost it). And maybe Joe Royle, who we coul've had twice before (when he was top notch).

Like Phil Tufnell batting - now there is a quote that has made me chuckle I’m going to have to steal that.

You (and others in this thread) make some good points about timing I.e. we appoint what could be perceived as SL’s choice when the club achieves some semblance of stability and integrity and then they perform woefully, leaving a trail of destruction in their path that then sets up their successor, which often is the fans preferred choice, to fail. 
 

Are we also guilty of recruiting these “proven” managers when they are past their expiry date? Coppell being one such example, and NP (though I really hope not) could possibly be labelled as another, given his illness record? 

[Lack of Action Man]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Bentley / O’Leary (2)

Tanner / Kalas / Atkinson / Pring / Dasilva (5)

James / Palmer / Williams / Scott / Massengo / Benarous (6)

Wells / Weimann / Semenyo / Conway / Bell (5)

Plus:

Towler / Edwards / Janneh (all have played first team for City)

Are you still pushing top half / playoffs?

 

Christ, that squad makes for depressing reading Fevs and that’s assuming Williams is a contender, which I personally don’t think we can rely on given his injury record. 

[ooRya]

40 minutes ago, sticks 1969 said:

NP must stay and be given time 

 

Why?

Genuine question, as I have seen absolutely nothing that tells me he is the right man for the job.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

Christ, that squad makes for depressing reading Fevs and that’s assuming Williams is a contender, which I personally don’t think we can rely on given his injury record. 

So, over to the new “fans choice” of manager….here’s your starting point.  

We could certainly do with Webster or Kelly moving….Bournemouth look like they will go up, so Kelly will probably stay.  Brownhill won’t generate the kind of “sell-on” we need to give us much to play with.  So Webby, it’s up to you.

It is depressing isn’t it?  Although it starts to highlight the reality.

We have to get through next season, somehow.

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

You (and others in this thread) make some good points about timing I.e. we appoint what could be perceived as SL’s choice when the club achieves some semblance of stability and integrity and then they perform woefully, leaving a trail of destruction in their path that then sets up their successor, which often is the fans preferred choice, to fail. 
 

Are we also guilty of recruiting these “proven” managers when they are past their expiry date? Coppell being one such example, and NP (though I really hope not) could possibly be labelled as another, given his illness record? 

Appointing a new manager at any club is always a gamble. Their CV is irrelevant - just look at the top managers that have been sacked. Pottechino, Mourinho, Benitez, Ranieri…..the list almost endless. I can only think of two top managers that haven’t been sacked, Wenger and Pep.

Absolutely no point in blaming SL for appointing the wrong guy - he doesn’t have a crystal ball but he is at least prepared to give them time as we saw with LJ. 

If Nige leaves City before his contract expires it’ll be on poor health grounds.

[Bristol Rob]

14 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

 

Are we also guilty of recruiting these “proven” managers when they are past their expiry date? Coppell being one such example, and NP (though I really hope not) could possibly be labelled as another, given his illness record? 

I would guess there would have been outrage on this forum if we had appointed a 'dinosaur' like Mowbray, but he is doing okay.

[exAtyeoMax]

5 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

I would guess there would have been outrage on this forum if we had appointed a 'dinosaur' like Mowbray, but he is doing okay.

don't mention Warnock…

 

I mentioned it once…

[Merrick's Marvels]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Might it be prudent to see what actually pans out in the summer transfer window first.

Its conceivable that our squad could actually be weaker come Aug / Sept?  That sounds a ridiculous statement, but we still have to cut costs further to avoid breaking FFP next season.

For example, ”selling” the ones not on the bus - Moore, Vyner, Bakinson….that doesn’t generate enough on its own to cover the cost reductions required.

For example, not exercising the year options on the contracts of O’Dowda, Martin, doesn’t generate enough it’s own either.

For example, letting go those OOC - Cundy, Klose, King, doesn’t generate enough on its own either. 

Now, you might think most aren’t a great loss, but it costs to replace them, and you have to replace some of them at least.

So, just imagine we let all 8 go, that might get us somewhere near, but still a bit short of FFP compliance.  I’m gonna make a big assumption that Baker retires and it costs us to pay him up.

Our squad entering the summer would be:

Bentley / O’Leary (2)

Tanner / Kalas / Atkinson / Pring / Dasilva (5)

James / Palmer / Williams / Scott / Massengo / Benarous (6)

Wells / Weimann / Semenyo / Conway / Bell (5)

Plus:

Towler / Edwards / Janneh (all have played first team for City)

Are you still pushing top half / playoffs?

 

21 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

Christ, that squad makes for depressing reading Fevs and that’s assuming Williams is a contender, which I personally don’t think we can rely on given his injury record. 

 

Which is why we have to sell at least 1 of the talented youngsters.

 

[TBW]

1 hour ago, OddBallJim said:

I had a somewhat marmite view of LJ.

I like Marmite. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

12 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

I would guess there would have been outrage on this forum if we had appointed a 'dinosaur' like Mowbray, but he is doing okay.

He is doing okay - by selling a young striker to a Prem team last summer for £15M and also making good use of the loan market.

Perhaps that will be the way for us to go this summer, too? 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[Bristol Oil Services]

What is happening here now is that Steve and his eye-watering wedge is keeping us, just, a second-tier club, our head's above the water of relegation, where under any previous owners we would be sunk. If we hadn't gone down last season, under any previous owners, we'd be bottom of the pile now on about 24 points and already planning for Gillingham / Walsall / L1.

Rather like modern medicine keeps old folk alive well into their 80s and even their 90s, living a dismal life of decrepitude and decreasing independence and autonomy, grimly watching afternoon telly in their own homes (if they're lucky; if they're not, in an old folks home), whereas decades ago 99% of them would be six feet under by now having gone before getting to the almost pointless existence that is life post-80 with all its aches and pains (and worse), so is Steve keeping us alive about at least six places higher than where we usually would be, ripping up L1 and enjoying the gay-abandon of trampling Gillingham / Walsall / L1 in to the dirt. Or, er, about to do that very soon.

Instead, thanks to Steve - thanks Steve! - we cling on grimly to our Championship lives, stinking and stagnating the place out, turning people off and away in their hundreds.

All that's happening here is a long goodbye - to the second tier - a much, much longer goodbye than typically. And boy is it painful / dull! Put us out of our misery, Steve, and take us back to L1 now!!

[Supersonic Robin]

1 hour ago, OddBallJim said:

Just thought I’d gauge people’s opinion on why it is that when we seemingly get a managerial appointment that is endorsed by a reasonable portion of the fan base, the result ends up being totally underwhelming? 
 

I was very much excited by NP’s appointment, to the point where I bought my first ST since SC’s final season. For me, despite the financial constraints, injuries and rumours of total mismanagement behind the scenes, I expected quite a bit more from Nigel Pearson.  I expected more i.e. a definitive style of play (we seem to be slowly getting this), but also a resolute mentality that we would be hard to beat and always claw our way back into a game (which we aren’t and don’t). I’m not saying I thought we’d be play off contenders, but to be languishing in the lower half has me feeling very… meh

I was excited when we appointed Coppell and that went totally tits up. I was excited, perhaps less so, by SOD and that was something of a disaster. I didn’t really know what to make of SC, who turned out to be excellent in league one, and (like many I suspect) I had a somewhat marmite view of LJ. The less said about the astonishing ineptitude of appointing DH the better. 
 

So why is it that when we get “the fans choice” (or at least my preferred choice ) things go to pot? Financial mismanagement? Fallings out with the board or players? Honestly it has me baffled. Maybe I am the curse somehow?!

I desperately want NP to succeed but at the moment I just can’t see it. I want to be proven wrong!

Respectfully, I think your expectations for this season were a little high. You say you're disappointed with us languishing in the lower half, but realistically I think the chances of using finishing in the top half this season were very slim. However, like you, I did expect that we'd be more defensively competent and more mentally resilient. I'm quite disappointed that we don't seem to haven't made more progress in that regard.

In terms of Pearson struggling, I think you identify some of the main issues here - "despite the financial constraints, injuries and rumours of total mismanagement behind the scenes". Pearson is not free from blame, but it's worth recognising that he's inherited a team/club in a dreadful position.

It often seems to be the case that on-pitch performance follows off-pitch performance at a club. Very few clubs who are a mess behind the scenes end up performing well on the pitch - look at us, Derby, Reading, and Birmingham for example. For half a decade we had Mark Ashton steering the ship with his dubiously appointed mates in important roles. We didn't (and still don't) have a DOF or HOR at the club. Our lack of footballing expertise was/is amateurish compared to some clubs.

For all the positive soundbites that come out the top of the club, you can't really say we've been especially well run in a footballing sense. It's tough for any manager to succeed (fans' choice or otherwise) with that being the case. 

[Selred]

1 hour ago, blockbrowt1 said:

maybe pushing for the playoffs next season

We lost to Barnsley last night. Under what pretence do we suddenly become a play off chasing team? Why are all the teams above us going to go backwards?

[Davefevs]

35 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

I would guess there would have been outrage on this forum if we had appointed a 'dinosaur' like Mowbray, but he is doing okay.

The world of the entitled football fan - Blackburn fans calling for Mowbray's head over the past few weeks.  Got to 2nd place, had a bad run….still 4th after last night’s win.  

[Bristol Rob]

2 minutes ago, Selred said:

We lost to Barnsley last night. Under what pretence do we suddenly become a play off chasing team? Why are all the teams above us going to go backwards?

Well 18 months ago, Barnsley were a playoff chasing side! So we, err, just need to draw with them next season and we'll go up as Champions!

I think that's how it works.

[marmite]

33 minutes ago, TBW said:

I like Marmite. 

Aw thanks.