“The fans choice”

[Malago]

Remember boys and girls the alternative to NP in the short term is Curtis Fleming, and knowing the Lansdown’s, possibly in the long term as well.

[Wealwayseatcheese]

2 hours ago, Red-Al said:

Do I smell gas?

Sticks 1969 is as true a red as anyone. I first saw him in the late 80’s on Ashton road with his Poland and Turkey city beanie hat on. Those were the days .

2 hours ago, Red-Al said:

2 hours ago, Red-Al said:

Edited March 16, 2022 by Wealwayseatcheese

[Redandproud]

1 hour ago, Wealwayseatcheese said:

Sticks 1969 is as true a red as anyone. I first saw him in the late 80’s on Ashton road with his Poland and Turkey city beanie hat on. Those were the days .

It was the sort of statement a gashead would make,

[Lack of Action Man]

2 hours ago, TBW said:

I like Marmite. 

And I do not

[Jerseybean]

4 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

So despite all of the issues, you rightly state, what do you expect from. any manager. It is a bizarre read on here. Not just you. It is like, lets just forget all of these massive issues, created by others, under the carpet, and one person can compensate in 12 moths for crass overspending, an unbalanced and poor squad, we do not even have a starting 11 , without injuries, that works in any formation, yet one man can simply solve that. I cannot comprehend the mentality of our fans. I see it as children thrashing around on the floor in a tantrum. Not wanting to accept the reality and if they moan and cry enough it will all get better. Fire Nige, no worries, but the issues we have are so substantial it will still take years to solve and turn the malaise around. We lost 39M last year. I think some just see that as a monopoly number, as if it is not real. It is real, the challenge we face is huge. That we will avoid relegation is a miracle with the squad we have, and that is without injuries. Our club was in a huge mess, is still a mess, yet people think it can be solved overnight. We probably risked a double relegation , that is how far off the track we got. We repeated history with yet again a group of overpaid average players, how many times have we repeated that. Normally it lead to relegation. I have no idea if Nige is the right manager, but I do know our fans are living in a cloud if they think changing one man will solve the mess Lansdown/LJ and Ashton generated. it was a car crash that a few saw, others still seem to need a full crash before understanding how big a hole was being created. It needs patience and time. I have seen some of the best football in years this season , alongside some totally incomprehensible stuff. So all is not lost, it is just part of the restructuring and reshaping phase. It will still take a couple of years, will need some luck in the summer (add on transfer fees) and some inspired transfer business. But there is no instant fix, and avosing relegation should not be underestimated. Others like Ipswich, Wednesday and sunderland dropped down in similar circumstances, hey that is what we used to do. Patience needed. 

Good post IMO. NP was wise enough to manage expectations from the outset (although many appear not to have heard or remembered it) making clear the timeframe he expected to turn things around. Step one: Survival this season and off-loading players +++, starting on the culture change agenda and in particular changing squad/transfer mentality. Instant success is an illusion as you say billywedlock patience is needed. 

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

So despite all of the issues, you rightly state, what do you expect from. any manager. It is a bizarre read on here. Not just you. It is like, lets just forget all of these massive issues, created by others, under the carpet, and one person can compensate in 12 moths for crass overspending, an unbalanced and poor squad, we do not even have a starting 11 , without injuries, that works in any formation, yet one man can simply solve that. I cannot comprehend the mentality of our fans. I see it as children thrashing around on the floor in a tantrum. Not wanting to accept the reality and if they moan and cry enough it will all get better. Fire Nige, no worries, but the issues we have are so substantial it will still take years to solve and turn the malaise around. We lost 39M last year. I think some just see that as a monopoly number, as if it is not real. It is real, the challenge we face is huge. That we will avoid relegation is a miracle with the squad we have, and that is without injuries. Our club was in a huge mess, is still a mess, yet people think it can be solved overnight. We probably risked a double relegation , that is how far off the track we got. We repeated history with yet again a group of overpaid average players, how many times have we repeated that. Normally it lead to relegation. I have no idea if Nige is the right manager, but I do know our fans are living in a cloud if they think changing one man will solve the mess Lansdown/LJ and Ashton generated. it was a car crash that a few saw, others still seem to need a full crash before understanding how big a hole was being created. It needs patience and time. I have seen some of the best football in years this season , alongside some totally incomprehensible stuff. So all is not lost, it is just part of the restructuring and reshaping phase. It will still take a couple of years, will need some luck in the summer (add on transfer fees) and some inspired transfer business. But there is no instant fix, and avosing relegation should not be underestimated. Others like Ipswich, Wednesday and sunderland dropped down in similar circumstances, hey that is what we used to do. Patience needed. 

I want it all, I want it now, and it’s all Pearson’s fault!!!  Changing the manager solves it all.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

Good post IMO. NP was wise enough to manage expectations from the outset (although many appear not to have heard or remembered it) making clear the timeframe he expected to turn things around. Step one: Survival this season and off-loading players +++, starting on the culture change agenda and in particular changing squad/transfer mentality. Instant success is an illusion as you say billywedlock patience is needed. 

Yep, and offloading isn’t easy and players are in contracts nobody want to pick up the full tab for.

[Lack of Action Man]

7 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

So despite all of the issues, you rightly state, what do you expect from. any manager. It is a bizarre read on here. Not just you. It is like, lets just forget all of these massive issues, created by others, under the carpet, and one person can compensate in 12 moths for crass overspending, an unbalanced and poor squad, we do not even have a starting 11 , without injuries, that works in any formation, yet one man can simply solve that. I cannot comprehend the mentality of our fans. I see it as children thrashing around on the floor in a tantrum. Not wanting to accept the reality and if they moan and cry enough it will all get better. Fire Nige, no worries, but the issues we have are so substantial it will still take years to solve and turn the malaise around. We lost 39M last year. I think some just see that as a monopoly number, as if it is not real. It is real, the challenge we face is huge. That we will avoid relegation is a miracle with the squad we have, and that is without injuries. Our club was in a huge mess, is still a mess, yet people think it can be solved overnight. We probably risked a double relegation , that is how far off the track we got. We repeated history with yet again a group of overpaid average players, how many times have we repeated that. Normally it lead to relegation. I have no idea if Nige is the right manager, but I do know our fans are living in a cloud if they think changing one man will solve the mess Lansdown/LJ and Ashton generated. it was a car crash that a few saw, others still seem to need a full crash before understanding how big a hole was being created. It needs patience and time. I have seen some of the best football in years this season , alongside some totally incomprehensible stuff. So all is not lost, it is just part of the restructuring and reshaping phase. It will still take a couple of years, will need some luck in the summer (add on transfer fees) and some inspired transfer business. But there is no instant fix, and avosing relegation should not be underestimated. Others like Ipswich, Wednesday and sunderland dropped down in similar circumstances, hey that is what we used to do. Patience needed. 

On your points I've highlighted:

I think I expect some of the basic/fundamental errors we see week in week out to be addressed. FBC pod made a fair point that if NP isn't in charge of leading training (i.e. he takes a more observational role), and he isn't in charge of recruitment, then he is solely responsible for selection, man-managing and motivating the team - and I question some of the team selection we have seen and certainly the motivation of some (but not all) of our players. Kasper Schmeichel (and indeed many of the other players from that Leicester side) talk about NP like he was the defining turning point in their careers. I want to see some evidence of that level of inspiration and motivation here at AG, and imo I'm struggling to see it apart from in Alex Scott who I suspect due to his ability may have been a revelation under any half decent manager. You could make a case for Semenyo, but that's just two players. We have a lot of players in our squad who are underperforming and I would expect more from NP in that regard.

I do agree that the club is a mess, has been mismanaged for quite some time, and I think this needs to be hammered home a lot more directly to the club themselves. It's been a little while since Twentyman has done a cutting interview/show with one of the City higher-ups. The interview earlier this year with RG was dominated by NP's health issues so I don't feel we got much in the way of a strategy for moving forwards other than RG saying "I hope Nigel stays with us" (paraphrasing).

I take your point that perhaps a change now isn't in the clubs best interests... however you have to look at the likes of Forest who were similarly languishing under Hughton (again, another one of my preferred choices for the managerial post here) and how when they made the change their fortunes improved. Is it correlation or causation? I can't say for certain, but I think as fans we are right to have some skepticism over what we have seen this season. I was expecting us to finish about 10th - 13th after I watched us in pre-season and on the opening day, so in that regard we have been very underwhelming - for me personally.

I absolutely agree we need a huge slice of luck in the summer with both outgoings and in comings - can I see it happening? Probably not. I have a horrible feeling the summer will go similarly to the pre-season we spent under SC pursuing players who were (for whatever reason) financially unavailable to us i.e. Dwight Gayle.

[tin]

4 hours ago, OddBallJim said:

Just thought I’d gauge people’s opinion on why it is that when we seemingly get a managerial appointment that is endorsed by a reasonable portion of the fan base, the result ends up being totally underwhelming? 
 

I was very much excited by NP’s appointment, to the point where I bought my first ST since SC’s final season. For me, despite the financial constraints, injuries and rumours of total mismanagement behind the scenes, I expected quite a bit more from Nigel Pearson.  I expected more i.e. a definitive style of play (we seem to be slowly getting this), but also a resolute mentality that we would be hard to beat and always claw our way back into a game (which we aren’t and don’t). I’m not saying I thought we’d be play off contenders, but to be languishing in the lower half has me feeling very… meh

I was excited when we appointed Coppell and that went totally tits up. I was excited, perhaps less so, by SOD and that was something of a disaster. I didn’t really know what to make of SC, who turned out to be excellent in league one, and (like many I suspect) I had a somewhat marmite view of LJ. The less said about the astonishing ineptitude of appointing DH the better. 
 

So why is it that when we get “the fans choice” (or at least my preferred choice ) things go to pot? Financial mismanagement? Fallings out with the board or players? Honestly it has me baffled. Maybe I am the curse somehow?!

I desperately want NP to succeed but at the moment I just can’t see it. I want to be proven wrong!

You mention a lot of managers and head coaches there. What do they all have in common? SL. Not much will change, for good or bad, until he goes IMO. 

[old_eastender]

I thought Nigel Pearson was just the appointment we needed, but it is not turning out that way. History tells us his successful stints are when he had Craig Shakespeare as coach, now he has Curtis Fleming. Given the continuous inability to get an organised defence, should Fleming's position not be seriously questioned?  There must be options to change the coach, and keep the manager, surely?

Edited March 16, 2022 by old_eastender
correction

[TV Tom]

Most of the promising young managers have already been snapped up by other championship clubs unfortunately, Pearsons tenure so far has been abysmal 

[italian dave]

4 hours ago, OddBallJim said:

Just thought I’d gauge people’s opinion on why it is that when we seemingly get a managerial appointment that is endorsed by a reasonable portion of the fan base, the result ends up being totally underwhelming? 

So why is it that when we get “the fans choice” (or at least my preferred choice ) things go to pot? Financial mismanagement? Fallings out with the board or players? Honestly it has me baffled. Maybe I am the curse somehow?!

 

I guess the obvious answer is that it’s because we, the fans, don’t know half as much as we think we do?!

But it also begs the question how you define underwhelming, what you base a judgement on? Results and league position I’d imagine - which will make GJ and LJ the most successful managerial appointments of the past 40 years.

A view probably not shared by a lot of fans on here. Which kind of brings us back to my first point….

[Lack of Action Man]

2 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

You cannot compare the Forest squad with ours. Put any manager in place, any, and tell me what back 4 or 3 they would pick right now ? We just don't have a logical answer to that. Some of that was down to last summer, I look at Simpson signing in particular , but then I do not know what the budget was and what was available. We agreed to keep Nige far too late in my view. It made the summer very compromised , add in covid and a 39M loss coming. Having said that, despite not having a stable defence , or the right players for a back four, or even the huge injury numbers (again... how come ?) , last night we had 3 huge CB's on the field, yet we were beaten twice at corners. Now here I do have an issue with the coaching. Who is actually working on our defence ? Because a set piece is a lot about organisation for me, and in the last months we have been clueless. Who is setting us up ? Here Nige needs to make a change, and bring in a better defensive coach, because these are basics, and nothing to do with 4-3-3- 3-5-2 etc etc. It is basic defending, and too often we have players marrking no one and huge gaps everywhere. So , I do not like our squad, but also see, as a defensive unit, we do need better players, but we also need far better organisation. We need to improve our coaching this summer too. 

I agree totally with your point about defensive coaching. We simply have to be so much better than we are, and given that both Pearson and Flemming were defenders in their career I cannot fathom what is going on? If Flemming is leading training and Pearson observing, then they are both culpable since Pearson must be happy with what Flemming is coaching to the players. If it's Pearson leading training then we've got even bigger worries because you would expect him to be able to teach players how to mark, screen and attack the ball properly. Pearson talks about our players lacking "heart" and desire to win the ball... but surely that's his job - to inspire and motivate them to be the best they can be. Or is he simply saying that he is unable to polish a turd? I just don't get it.

Injuries are a huge worry. Is there something "off" about the training pitches or indeed the training routine the players are put through? Are they getting adequate recovery from games/rehab from niggles? All valid questions we just don't have the answers to.

 

 

[sludge]

2 hours ago, Malago said:

Remember boys and girls the alternative to NP in the short term is Curtis Fleming, and knowing the Lansdown’s, possibly in the long term as well.

steve lansdown appears to like going round in circles, so i would assume that a comeback for lee johnson cannot be completely ruled out either 

[ooRya]

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I want it all, I want it now, and it’s all Pearson’s fault!!!  Changing the manager solves it all.

It's all very well coming out with a flippant comment like that, and I do understand the sentiment, but I'm still waiting for someone to tell me exactly what Pearson has done to show that he is the right man for the job.....because I still can't see it.

[italian dave]

4 hours ago, Rich said:

S L likes to be proven right. He appoints fans favourites when in dire situations and appoints his favourites when the going is good. Ultimately it all ends in abject failure.

I know what you mean. Though I suppose you could say that of course he wants to be proven right, and ultimately we all want him to be proven right.

But there’s a more serious point you make about the nature of his appointments. I’m not so sure it’s about fans favourites v his favourites. I think he has struggled with his strategy and doesn’t really know what ‘his favourite’ is.

Earlier in his tenure we had a spell where we’d change manager every year. Not only that, but every manager would have a different outlook, different style to the previous one. And that meant a period of transition in order to get in players to suit the new style, culture whatever and get rid of the old. And half way through that transition we’d panic and change again.

I think SL then realised that wasn’t the way forward and very publicly went for an approach that tried to establish a bit of consistency in the club. A consistent style of management, coaching etc. All good so far. And made sense. 

But he doesn’t seem to be able to see how that consistency is embedded beyond making internal appointments. Sticking with the family - literally in the case of the Johnson’s, but also figuratively in terms of Holden. 

What a club like Swansea (Brentford to a point)  have done successfully is to stick with a consistent culture and style whilst still making external appointments for new managers. That’s what SL seems to struggle with. So now we’ve gone back to the earlier point in his tenure where an outside appointment means a complete change of strategy and style, and the long and painful transition that comes with that. 

[italian dave]

9 minutes ago, sludge said:

steve lansdown appears to like going round in circles, so i would assume that a comeback for lee johnson cannot be completely ruled out either 

Oooohhhhh…..can you imagine..…If that happened I think we’d realise that we don’t yet know the meaning of the word meltdown on here

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, ooRya said:

It's all very well coming out with a flippant comment like that, and I do understand the sentiment, but I'm still waiting for someone to tell me exactly what Pearson has done to show that he is the right man for the job.....because I still can't see it.

This will sound flippant too, but someone just asked me what I saw as success this season and how I evaluated it.  My reply was:

This season:

- staying up (bare minimum imho) 

- but no relegation battle 

- establishing a style of play 

- recruiting well / (that means mixed, bordering on below par)

- cutting costs by 20%  (it’s quite conceivable that the playing staff wages might’ve reduced by 30%)

I really expected a tough season, but one that would improve over the season.  If anything it’s stayed pretty constant, mixed bag of performances, mixed bag of results.  Saturday made me think, a couple of players away from being a competitive unit next season.  Last night made me think we are another season away.

Even though I thought the rebuild would be tough, I didn’t think it would be this hard.  I thought we’d be able to move on a few players, and that would free budget, even if held onto for the summer.  That hasn’t happened and the pressure is on this summer’s recruitment.

One man’s “Nige has man-managed the players well” is another man’s “he throws players under the bus”.

Next season:

Ask me in mid August! 

As it currently stands I, expecting a similar season to this one.  Is that a bad or good reflection on Pearson?  It depends the resources he has at his disposal.  If we are stronger (on paper) next season, the. I expect us to do better.  But there are no guarantees the squad will be stronger next season.

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Oooohhhhh…..can you imagine..…If that happened I think we’d realise that we don’t yet know the meaning of the word meltdown on here

I think it would be very interesting to see LJ manage under these conditions and without Ashton.

[JoeAman08]

2 hours ago, Malago said:

Remember boys and girls the alternative to NP in the short term is Curtis Fleming, and knowing the Lansdown’s, possibly in the long term as well.

This is what is comes down to. I can not trust NP all I want but I trust him a lot more than I trust SL to hire someone better. We need a DoF type figure in here. Not Mark Ashton but even someone like say Pearson to oversee our staff hiring, keep an eye over recruitment and things like that. Get a young coach who wants to play pressing attacking football.
 

Sounds familiar and it ended poorly but we had our best couple years with that set up. Just had the wrong duo. Think we just don’t have football people in too many positions at the top end of the club. 
 

Maybe Pearson can be the main man and sort this all out. I am just not convinced at all by what I see every Saturday. Points and position expectations aside, I don’t think there has been enough progression on the pitch. Does he deserve another window? Idk if I’d say deserved but I think it makes sense for NP to get it. A poor start next season though will turn toxic quick. Especially if we sell 3 of our best players. 

[maxjak]

4 hours ago, sticks 1969 said:

NP must stay and be given time 

 

Wow 26 likes!............I must try posting my own Erroneous glib statement, if that is all it takes to find similarly like minded & misguided disciples?         

[Major Isewater]

3 hours ago, TBW said:

I like Marmite. 

I can take it or leave it.

[BasSavage88]

Boomers supporting plans that will **** over future generations for years. Wonder where I've seen that before..................

 

Joking btw

[Midred]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The world of the entitled football fan - Blackburn fans calling for Mowbray's head over the past few weeks.  Got to 2nd place, had a bad run….still 4th after last night’s win.  

Imagine being one of the clubs in the premier league always finishing in the top 6 but never the top 2, how must their fans feel?

And they change managers every other year, some more frequently!

[Midred]

7 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Wow 26 likes!............I must try posting my own Erroneous glib statement, if that is all it takes to find similarly like minded & misguided disciples?         

You obviously need a new hoover!

[Tin Soldier]

Can’t believe some of the comments. NP is trying to sort out the mess from the last encumbrances. Give him time. This time next season, he will be judged, but not now.

Lansdown took his eye of the ball, sold all the family silver, allowed too many monkeys to be signed, expect more Barnsley style performances and results. Big shakeup coming in the summer.

[Redstart]

3 minutes ago, Tin Soldier said:

Can’t believe some of the comments. NP is trying to sort out the mess from the last encumbrances. Give him time. This time next season, he will be judged, but not now.

Lansdown took his eye of the ball, sold all the family silver, allowed too many monkeys to be signed, expect more Barnsley style performances and results. Big shakeup coming in the summer.

Unfortunately though you pay peanuts, you get monkeys - if there is no decent transfer budget available to Pearson in the summer window then I dread what kind of squad we will start next season with. 

[maxjak]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

So, over to the new “fans choice” of manager….here’s your starting point.  

We could certainly do with Webster or Kelly moving….Bournemouth look like they will go up, so Kelly will probably stay.  Brownhill won’t generate the kind of “sell-on” we need to give us much to play with.  So Webby, it’s up to you.

It is depressing isn’t it?  Although it starts to highlight the reality.

We have to get through next season, somehow.

Get through next season?     God.........I thought supporting my team was supposed to be occasionally exciting and fun instead of endless purgatory and pointless expense?   Think I might buy an Arsenal season ticket next season, so I can finally watch some entertaining, stimulating sport?  I have more than paid my dues over 30 years  of mostly underwhelming mediocrity, I deserve some respite from the curse of supporting my local team, and endless away trips which mostly end in disappointment?     Once NP has gone I will return, but i am reaching an age when my patience and tolerance is reaching it's limit, and i am worn down by the constant pulverising boredom of it all..............apologies for being so upbeat?

[maxjak]

13 minutes ago, Midred said:

You obviously need a new hoover!

Maybe we should recruit Henry?     Though he can't possibly suck more than NP?        

[054123]

5 hours ago, Mad Cyril said:

I have put a lot of thought into this and concluded we are just $$$t

From the very top down?