How long has Pearson got left?

[Waconda]

9 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Just Pearson distancing himself from any blame whatsoever.....................Again!

Harsh, actually feel bad for him if he is being excluded.

If it his choice however, what does that mean ?

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, harrys said:

All about opinions, personally I think we have a much better squad than our league position suggests but there is obviously something amiss, I’ve made no secret out of the fact that I don’t rate Pearson and feel we would of been better off with managers who have gone to other clubs in the last nine months (Forest, Boro, PNE, Swansea) but we’ll never know, as I said it’s all about opinions 

We might well have been.  Wilder and Cooper wouldn’t have chosen City over their respective clubs though.  Martin or Lowe, who knows.  Both PNE and Swansea far better financial outlook than City too.

I’ve said all along that I think we’ve needed the experienced football man with the younger man alongside him. No idea whether Pearson would work like that or not, but LJ definitely missed having someone (football person) as the buffer between him and Ashton.

[frenchred]

7 minutes ago, Waconda said:

Harsh, actually feel bad for him if he is being excluded.

If it his choice however, what does that mean ?

Hopefully it.means he is off

[Waconda]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We might well have been.  Wilder and Cooper wouldn’t have chosen City over their respective clubs though.  Martin or Lowe, who knows.  Both PNE and Swansea far better financial outlook than City too.

I’ve said all along that I think we’ve needed the experienced football man with the younger man alongside him. No idea whether Pearson would work like that or not, but LJ definitely missed having someone (football person) as the buffer between him and Ashton.

Agree with this mostly. You don't know Wilder or Cooper wouldn't have come to us but that is a decent guess. 

Lowe was the man for us - IMO

Wonder if we did sound him out at all ?

Edited April 3, 2022 by Waconda

[Waconda]

4 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Hopefully it.means he is off

More likely he doesn't want to do any of the work in the recruitment process.

Gives them a list and says get me some of these perhaps ?

Or phones players he already knows, directly, hence no need for a recruitment department.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Waconda

[Davefevs]

It’s quite possible Lowe was the un-named 4th man along with Cook, Hughton and Holden who got to the 2+ interview stage.  The fact that he was in a job might be the reason that no news / rumours came out.

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

It’s quite possible Lowe was the un-named 4th man along with Cook, Hughton and Holden who got to the 2+ interview stage.  The fact that he was in a job might be the reason that no news / rumours came out.

Yep at that time he must have been in the equation you would have thought.

I think he could have been ideal for us but we will never know.

Hughton should have done more research !

[Finley_Smith10]

Think it’s still mental how we haven’t managed back to back wins this season. This season has been pretty dire tbh. Hopefully we’re so much better next season 

[TV Tom]

14 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

Think it’s still mental how we haven’t managed back to back wins this season. This season has been pretty dire tbh. Hopefully we’re so much better next season 

Can’t see us being any better next season than this or last season

[JoeAman08]

5 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Thanks for the reply , I understand some of your points but struggle to agree with someof it .

I don’t mind your defence line up , but when has that defence actually been available to us ? Atkinson was injured , Klose not at the club for most of the season and now Kalas injured . But without injuries I would choose the same . But up to now we have had little chance to try it . We have not had a right back for 6 months . 
 

interested in your keeper choice , as I agree . Not sure many others do mind . You say Pearson did not try anything , yet dropping Bents caused melt down here . I feel both are poor at crosses , Bents a better shot stopper but Max transformed our okay from the back. So much quicker , and got us in the front foot . Bents is very slow and we have been laboured since he cane back .

Midfield, no real issue either , but it is young and learning . A lot of that learning is thanks to Pearson trying things and learning who has it .

up front , Wells is ok for me but blows hot and cold and has great limitations to his game . He works well in a particular situation but that’s it . AW is similar too , but his game seems better suited to what we are going to do .

I am not really against what you say as such but you seem to disregard  that many of your choices come from NP doing what you accuse him of not doing . So I am confused . You want to blame him for everything yet disregard the very positive aspects you ask for .

bear in mind cultural and mentality changes are not overnight , but it is happening and is what we lost after the L1 team got binned . This season has also been about finding out who can or cannot meet the standards . It sets a blueprint going forward . Everyone in the squad has had a chance , some have taken it , others not. 
 

So I appreciate your comments , but NP is actually doing what you advocate . So it’s hard to grasp . You just don’t like him , that’s fine too . But he is working on delivering exactly what you describe . We will be a 4-3-3 squad , with a commitment from all to deliver a team result , built on a lot of youth development. 

I don’t mind Pearson. Actually think he is trying to do the right things sorting the club out. Just not sure he is up to the training and tactics bit. I don’t think it would happen but if you said he was some sort of DoF or consultant and we recruited someone else for the head coach role I would like for him to stay in that capacity. 
 

But I just felt he has been reluctant to change things that haven’t been working. And I just don’t see any parts of play we can hang our hats on going into next season. But I also can see the be patient standpoint. How massive of a hole did he inherit? Maybe I underestimate the task he has taken on. Mind you I think it was massive but wanted to see more progress as the season went on. 
 

 

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

That is nice of them to say but we still ship 2-3 goals a game. We are still often second to 50/50 balls. We still don’t force opposition mistakes. 
 

There is a myriad of different options we could have used at times this season. NP has rarely experimented looking for an answer. Kalas hasn’t been used at RB where we have had problems. Are 2 of Cundy Klose and Atkinson not enough to play in a 4? Pring has flaws but is your standard championship player. Lacks a bit of technique and perfect positioning. Makes up for it with pace, power and workrate. Kalas Klose Atkinson Pring looks a solid back 4. 
 

In midfield, one of our best performances was a midfield of Benarous, Scott and Massengo against Coventry. I’ll concede we lost but we haven’t seen that trio since which I find strange considering Coventry are quite the side to perform as well as they did. The provided the effort and more importantly the athleticism to get around the pitch. All while being very composed on the ball. Ideally we’d have a true defensive midfielder instead of all 3 but we don’t. Instead we seem insistent on making Matty James work despite him not being able to get around the pitch. 
 

Up front, we had one of our best spells of the season in terms of performances in January. If I am not mistaken it coincided with Martin moving to the bench. Also perhaps O’Leary going in goal. Yet, he had one good performance against Cardiff(after weeks off) and has been an ever present since. Why have we not tried Wells more often? From everything coming from the club, he is training well. Requesting some u23 minutes and being a good influence. Sometimes I feel like he has been cast aside because the previous regime gave him a wage which NP disagrees with. Feel like it is a stubborness. 
 

So there you have it

O’Leary

Kalas Klose Atkinson Pring

Benarous Scott Massengo

Weimann Wells Semenyo

 

Hell, idk if that gets us more or less points. My point is we haven’t tried many different things. The squad was here to be used for an entire season. NP was reluctant to try things to get us out of ruts. He has not used the squad to 100% of its capabilities which imo is inexcusable for a side barely picking up a point per game

If you seriously think that 11 gets us higher up the table then you're in need of psychiatric help. 

Or perhaps your amateur analysis is superior to the proven professionals we employ. Who knows.

Of course we're all frustrated by the season we've had, by the inconsistency, by the glacial pace of progress. But...

O'Leary? If the opposition get a decent shot on target, it goes in. Unlike if Bentley is in goal - to blame his distribution on the team's lack of fluidity in possession is nuts - what about the 10 outfield players??? The idea Kalas has the mobility to play how modern full backs are required to - up and down, up and down - is a nonsense. Never mind the fact, if he had played RB this season, it would have fatally weakened central defence as the options there would have been what exactly? No Baker, Atkinson unavaible for long periods, Klose only been here 5 minutes. Vyner???? The non centre back Pring??? You pick Klose and Atkinson as a combo when in fact they've only been available to Pearson in the last couple of weeks when - guess what - he's picked them! That naive midfield will get bullied, bossed and run all over the show. And with no-one up front who's any good at actually getting hold of the ball and keeping it, those 3 players make a useless combination. Chris Martin is no-one's idea of Lionel Messi but his unfashionable, unflashy strengths are the sort of glue that holds every team together. In fact, what our team needs now is more glue, a heck of a lot more glue. 

Enjoy your Football Manager. 

Nigel Pearson lives in the real world.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[Waconda]

4 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

If you seriously think that 11 gets us higher up the table then you're in need of psychiatric help. 

Or perhaps your amateur analysis is superior to the proven professionals we employ. Who knows.

Of course we're all frustrated by the season we've had, by the inconsistency, by the glacial pace of progress. But...

O'Leary? If the opposition get a decent shot on target, it goes in. Unlike if Bentley is in goal - to blame his distribution on the team's lack of fluidity in possession is nuts - what about the 10 outfield players??? The idea Kalas has the mobility to play how modern full backs are required to - up and down, up and down - is a nonsense. Never mind the fact, if he had played RB this season, it would have fatally weakened central defence as the options there would have been what exactly? No Baker, Atkinson unavaible for long periods, Klose only been here 5 minutes. Vyner???? The non centre back Pring??? You pick Klose and Atkinson when in fact they've only been available to Pearson in the last couple of weeks when - guess what - he's picked them! That naive midfield will get bullied, bossed and run all over the show. And with no-one up front who's any good at actually getting hold of the ball and keeping, those 3 players make a useless combination. Chris Martin is no-one's idea of Lionel Messi but his unfashionable strengths are the sort of glue that holds every team together.

Enjoy your Football Manager. 

Nigel Pearson lives in the real world.

Enjoy your Football Manager. 

Nigel Pearson lives in the real world.

Yet played a 19 year old centre forward at right back in a Championship game despite having other options available to him.

That "real world" you mean ?

[REDOXO]

22 minutes ago, Waconda said:

Enjoy your Football Manager. 

Nigel Pearson lives in the real world.

Yet played a 19 year old centre forward at right back in a Championship game despite having other options available to him.

That "real world" you mean ?

You give players games and experience. Pearson has a free hit to play young players for match day experience and try them outside of their comfort zone, much like LJ and Bobby Reid. You know that you’re a professional. 

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, REDOXO said:

You give players games and experience. Pearson has a free hit to play young players for match day experience and try them outside of their comfort zone, much like LJ and Bobby Reid. You know that you’re a professional. 

Comedy gold.

[Eastred]

5 hours ago, REDOXO said:

And loans are Free right? We are on the verge of an FFP deduction if we don’t sell in the next window and that may still happen.  I don’t know what Forests books look like but I will guess about as tidy as ours (he said ironically)

I guess Pearson  would say I’ve been doing this thirty years! This is what works in the long term and anyway this is the mandate I’ve been given.

The fact is we have given Massengo Atkinson Scott Cundy Benerous Pring et al game time that adds significantly to their value. Good luck to Forest but if they don’t make it they will just keep on spending the way Ashton did!

 

 

 

I didn’t say loans are free. We all agree the squad needs money spent on it next season, unless you believe this team is good enough to move up the table. To avoid a potential FFP issue, and no one on this forum knows exactly whether it will be an issue, we will have to sell. Loans will be a cheaper way than paying transfer fees. 

Just because someone has been in their job for 30 years doesn’t actually mean they’re still any good at it. A lot of people in business and sport are trading on their name. Pearson is one of those along with Steve Bruce. 
 

If Pearson was prepared to engage with agents he would be a good DoF mentoring a younger coach, but that’s not going to happen

[redsquirrel]

and why not?, the kid was playing really well at the time,no harm in trying him there to see if he could do it. its been a weird season and i think a lot of the inconsistencies  could be down to being comfortably placed in the table for the best part of it. not like every point was crucial if you understand what im  trying to say.(not very well i agree)

[Galley is our king]

Another question-

Just how long has this bloody thread got left? 

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, redsquirrel said:

and why not?, the kid was playing really well at the time,no harm in trying him there to see if he could do it. its been a weird season and i think a lot of the inconsistencies  could be down to being comfortably placed in the table for the best part of it. not like every point was crucial if you understand what im  trying to say.(not very well i agree)

Don't disagree with most of this apart from -

no harm in trying him there to see if he could do it

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Another question-

Just how long has this bloody thread got left? 

well if you keep adding to it....quite long

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Eastred said:

I didn’t say loans are free. We all agree the squad needs money spent on it next season, unless you believe this team is good enough to move up the table. To avoid a potential FFP issue, and no one on this forum knows exactly whether it will be an issue, we will have to sell. Loans will be a cheaper way than paying transfer fees. 

Just because someone has been in their job for 30 years doesn’t actually mean they’re still any good at it. A lot of people in business and sport are trading on their name. Pearson is one of those along with Steve Bruce. 
 

If Pearson was prepared to engage with agents he would be a good DoF mentoring a younger coach, but that’s not going to happen

Not necessarily.  Depends on who you’re after.  Balogun allegedly cost Boro £1m loan fee and 15% of his £40k p.w wages for a 20/22 week loan in January.  It’s fair to deduce from our published accounts that Mawson and Sessegnon cost £750k in loan fees last season (don’t know the split), plus their wages.

Buying a player, and spreading the cost of the fee over the term of the contract can be cheaper, plus you have a player that can be sold too.

What we do need to be is smart with any player we recruit, whether loan or permanent signing.

 

[Waconda]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not necessarily.  Depends on who you’re after.  Balogun allegedly cost Boro £1m loan fee and 15% of his £40k p.w wages for a 20/22 week loan in January.  It’s fair to deduce from our published accounts that Mawson and Sessegnon cost £750k in loan fees last season (don’t know the split), plus their wages.

Buying a player, and spreading the cost of the fee over the term of the contract can be cheaper, plus you have a player that can be sold too.

What we do need to be is smart with any player we recruit, whether loan or permanent signing.

 

Never been keen on loans, for every Fleck you get a Kent.

Needs to be a player who really wants to come on his own terms, not shunted here for experience. I think is the key.

Can be done but very detailed work needs to be done in recruitment now more than ever.

[Eastred]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not necessarily.  Depends on who you’re after.  Balogun allegedly cost Boro £1m loan fee and 15% of his £40k p.w wages for a 20/22 week loan in January.  It’s fair to deduce from our published accounts that Mawson and Sessegnon cost £750k in loan fees last season (don’t know the split), plus their wages.

Buying a player, and spreading the cost of the fee over the term of the contract can be cheaper, plus you have a player that can be sold too.

What we do need to be is smart with any player we recruit, whether loan or permanent signing.

 

I can’t see us being smart with recruitment whilst Pearson is here. This is a man whose wasted a wage with Danny Simpson, and whilst Tanner is one for the future, it can be argued the best signing he’s made is Wiemann- who was with us already!

Perhaps the best investment we can make is paying off Pearson from some of the proceeds of our younger players!!!

[redsquirrel]

31 minutes ago, Waconda said:

Don't disagree with most of this apart from -

no harm in trying him there to see if he could do it

i admit to not being up on the tactical side of things but i thought it was a better shout than AW when pearson did that, someone did it with korey smith a few years ago, memory not to good but think that went ok.  appreciate your point though  when we had already had JD over there with Pring on the left

[Waconda]

2 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

i admit to not being up on the tactical side of things but i thought it was a better shout than AW when pearson did that, someone did it with korey smith a few years ago, memory not to good but think that went ok.  appreciate your point though  when we had already had JD over there with Pring on the left

Apologies but I was replying to the potential long term damage to the confidence of a very young player being put in such horrendous situation.

It was a needless thing for the manager to do.

This is what pre season friendlies are for.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Waconda said:

Enjoy your Football Manager. 

Nigel Pearson lives in the real world.

Yet played a 19 year old centre forward at right back in a Championship game despite having other options available to him.

That "real world" you mean ?

Which he also did against Boro (which we won), Coventry (it was 1-1 when Bell was subbed off) so it isn’t like this was some random whim.

People always omit the bit of the story that doesn’t fit, I’d see Bell as a wide forward, rather as a CF, too.

[JoeAman08]

2 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

If you seriously think that 11 gets us higher up the table then you're in need of psychiatric help. 

Or perhaps your amateur analysis is superior to the proven professionals we employ. Who knows.

Of course we're all frustrated by the season we've had, by the inconsistency, by the glacial pace of progress. But...

O'Leary? If the opposition get a decent shot on target, it goes in. Unlike if Bentley is in goal - to blame his distribution on the team's lack of fluidity in possession is nuts - what about the 10 outfield players??? The idea Kalas has the mobility to play how modern full backs are required to - up and down, up and down - is a nonsense. Never mind the fact, if he had played RB this season, it would have fatally weakened central defence as the options there would have been what exactly? No Baker, Atkinson unavaible for long periods, Klose only been here 5 minutes. Vyner???? The non centre back Pring??? You pick Klose and Atkinson as a combo when in fact they've only been available to Pearson in the last couple of weeks when - guess what - he's picked them! That naive midfield will get bullied, bossed and run all over the show. And with no-one up front who's any good at actually getting hold of the ball and keeping it, those 3 players make a useless combination. Chris Martin is no-one's idea of Lionel Messi but his unfashionable, unflashy strengths are the sort of glue that holds every team together. In fact, what our team needs now is more glue, a heck of a lot more glue. 

Enjoy your Football Manager. 

Nigel Pearson lives in the real world.

Kalas has played rb in a promotion side. Mobility? he is the quickest player in the side. We played our best football with O’Leary. Funny still shipping 2-3 goals with Bentley. He has made no difference with triple the wages. 

That midfield has given us the best midfield display we have had all season. We’d be a much better watch and no worse off. 

Also are you suggesting we need more Chris Martin’s? If so I think you need the mental help mate. It is the likes of James and Martin that make us so easy to play against. James can’t cover ground in midfield and no one is afraid of Martin closing down. The fact you are slating Kalas’ mobility and bigging up Martin screams 0 football IQ but hey ho you aren’t the only one on here without a clue

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

Hey who knows . I think he would change many things but has had to live with what he inherited . I saw a big change when Simpson and Downing left for example . I don’t think , my opinion zero fact , he has the coaching or recruitment set up he would  choose either . He is constrained on many levels . Not that I think he is perfect , but I do feel the club was an amateur basket case and changing it is not overnight . I like that we are trying to get back to attributes we last saw with the GJ and SC teams . Hungry players with something to prove . 
IMHO we will see coaching changes this summer

. I remain concerned that the essential area of recruitment is not being updated to the required level . This is the one area we have been found wanting in . No idea Who decides this , but someone needs to own up to the fact our recruitment has been sub standard and a plan is in place . This is beyond Pearson and is a club strategic area . I have yet to see anything to suggest we have instigated anything  innovative in the area of recruitment. 

We will see what happens. Think someone said NP has said he isn’t involved in recruitment? I think maybe a bit false with Simpson, James and King but you’d like him to be able to have a major say in who is coming in. I mean he has cast aside plenty this season. That is not a negative but he clearly has a type he favours so if we are signing any players this summer with our limited funds he needs to be heavily involved. It is all going to be on his shoulders anyway. 

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Think someone said NP has said he isn’t involved in recruitment?

They misquoted him.  He said he didn’t work in the Recruitment Team - he did not say that he wasn’t involved in the recruitment process.  He most certainly is.

[real_bristol]

14 hours ago, pillred said:

The fall?

Autumn

[tin]

As and when NP does leave, ask yourself what structure will be left behind? SL has done nothing to appoint sporting director, the recruitment team has stood still, and we’ll need a whole new medical and coaching team once again. We’ll be in a better place on the pitch, but I bet managers wouldn’t be queueing up to join the Mary Celeste.

At the very least, SL’s had a golden opportunity to tap into NP’s experience and structure the football club from the ground up. Instead, he uses him like a firefighter. Not much will change on the pitch while the Lansdowns are involved IMO. 

As ever, I’m content with this season as it’s been bang on with my lowly expectations given the constraints. It’s not been perfect but it not been the disaster many doom merchants make it out to be either.