Robbie Cundy

[Pickle Rick]

Surprised he’s not had a thread already?!

I’ve not seen him over 90 minutes before and was very impressed with him yesterday.

Against a team with some good individual players, he didn’t look out of his depth and made some good interceptions, along with being strong in the air.

His diagonal ball across to Atkinson for Weimann’s goal was exceptional too.

I hope he can keep this up and he seemed to work very well with Klosse, who has proven to be a good signing.

[GrahamC]

Pleased for him because in truth he was pretty poor at Barnsley.

Think we are going to use the last 10 games to have a proper look before deciding whether he gets a new deal, the same goes for Klose.

Thing is if we do award both of them new contracts then we have no room for any other CBs unless we can shift players under contract like Moore, Vyner or even Kalas.

[Charlie BCFC]

4 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Pleased for him because in truth he was pretty poor at Barnsley.

Think we are going to use the last 10 games to have a proper look before deciding whether he gets a new deal, the same goes for Klose.

Thing is if we do award both of them new contracts then we have no room for any other CBs unless we can shift players under contract like Moore, Vyner or even Kalas.

Think Vyner and Moore are off in the summer, Pearson clearly doesn’t want them, looks like Baker won’t stick around either. At the moment we could do a lot worse than extending both contracts 

[Silvio Dante]

I thought he was a step down from his Blackburn performance, but a couple of steps up from his Barnsley one. What struck me was a bit of immaturity in situations yesterday - he didn’t hit touch  when he should have and played it into an opponent instead a couple of times. Couple of bits of Poor decision making which should improve with time. 
 

Didn’t play badly, probably a 7 for me, but a touch behind Klose and Atkinson for that reason.

[Dr Balls]

Given his inexperience at this level, I thought he looked alright. And he certainly has the physical presence. And I would agree with @GrahamCthat it will be Moore and Vyner who will be dispensed with and Baker probably needs to retire on health grounds. Which if Cundy and Klose stay leaves us with 4 centre backs.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Think Vyner and Moore are off in the summer, Pearson clearly doesn’t want them, looks like Baker won’t stick around either. At the moment we could do a lot worse than extending both contracts 

If someone will take them off our hands & they will go, both are under contract for another year, this isn’t Football Manager, they don’t have to leave.

Baker is also under contract until 2023, so be interested to know why he won’t “stick around”, if he retires (& we don’t know that) there is the matter of his last year’s wages.

[Shuffle]

Thought he was very good yesterday as was the whole back 3.  What I did learn yesterday is that there is life without Kalas as thought we would struggle massively.  In fairness, that’s the tightest we’ve been for a long time & only 2 shots on target for WBA all game 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Shuffle

[firstdivision]

1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

Given his inexperience at this level, I thought he looked alright. And he certainly has the physical presence. And I would agree with @GrahamCthat it will be Moore and Vyner who will be dispensed with and Baker probably needs to retire on health grounds. Which if Cundy and Klose stay leaves us with 4 centre backs.

How do you get players out who are on good contracts if they won’t get anything better elsewhere?

[sglosbcfc]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

If someone will take them off our hands & they will go, both are under contract for another year, this isn’t Football Manager, they don’t have to leave.

Baker is also under contract until 2023, so be interested to know why he won’t “stick around”, if he retires (& we don’t know that) there is the matter of his last year’s wages.

If he has to retire, and I really hope that is not the case, we will have insurance to cover that scenario. 

[Red-Robbo]

Certainly didn't disgrace himself and bar a couple of dodgy passes, I was impressed by how he fitted in.

He is 24 now, so no longer a very young player and at the start of the season it was a case of if he can't do it now at this level, he never will.

His loan career shows the progress, from excelling at Conference South level to playing L2 then L1. 

It's Baker's injury that gave him that chance of a breakthrough really, but he's an ongoing option and the more he plays, the more he'll improve.  

[GrahamC]

31 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said:

If he has to retire, and I really hope that is not the case, we will have insurance to cover that scenario. 

You would assume so, but no guarantee that it either matches his current wage or offers compensation (unlikely, IMO), is there?

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

You would assume so, but no guarantee that it either matches his current wage or offers compensation (unlikely, IMO), is there?

Read something last week that a lot of PL clubs have insurance, but that it is high premium for a limited amount of cover, e.g. £250k.

We didn’t have “business interruption” insurance like some clubs, think it was Luton who claimed £2.5m as a result of covid.

Need someone like @Coppelloto tell us what industry practice is on this sort of thing.

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Read something last week that a lot of PL clubs have insurance, but that it is high premium for a limited amount of cover, e.g. £250k.

We didn’t have “business interruption” insurance like some clubs, think it was Luton who claimed £2.5m as a result of covid.

Need someone like @Coppelloto tell us what industry practice is on this sort of thing.

City’s insurance will cover the clubs losses. There might be cover that pays the player n retirement, but the player will have his own personal coverage. All of which will need a couple of doctors reports and insurance assessment. 

[Davefevs]

24 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

City’s insurance will cover the clubs losses. There might be cover that pays the player n retirement, but the player will have his own personal coverage. All of which will need a couple of doctors reports and insurance assessment. 

Are you referring to insurance for covid losses?  If so, there has been nothing listed in the accounts for either of the last reported years accounts (19/20 and 20/21).  I’d suggest we had no insurance, or nothing of the magnitude of Luton and Boro (£2.75m).

[Merrick's Marvels]

5 hours ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Think Vyner and Moore are off in the summer.

That's what we want to happen. But you state it as if this will happen. 

Badly worded on your part? Because you surely know there's a world of difference between what we want and reality.

Can you seriously see another Championship club wanting to take Vyner? I can't.

If not, do you think he'd jump at the chance of playing League One? I don't. 

Which means we're stuck with him.

Fwiw, I don't think Hearts will want to turn Moore's loan into a permanent move. And having been unconvinced by him from day 1, I'm struggling to understand why anyone would want to sign him permanently tbh. 

Which means we're stuck with him, too. 

It'll be a miracle if these 2 leave in the summer along with Palmer and Wells, imo. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[bcfc01]

16 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

He looked OK . But as a main CB for next season no idea.  Can he develop , no idea either . But as we are trying to go to a back 4 , the question becomes , are Kalas and Klose good enough and consistent enough for that . Are Atkinson and Cundy good enough as back up ? The reality of our situation is more likely linked to what we can afford and who we can attract . Imho we will need 3 senior CB available , though Cundy is unlikely to be expensive . If he signs it will he because Nige thinks he can make a jump up for a top 6 finish in a couple of years . 
 

But the Barnsley game showed he has a lot to improve yet .

To be fair, the Barnsley game showed a lot need to improve not just him.

He played well against Blackburn and WBA, grew into both games, I like him - he attacks the ball and, for a very big lad, he is very good with the ball at his feet as well. He looks at home at this level, based on the limited amount of games he's had.

Atkinson looks the same to me.

If we end up with Kalas, Klose, Atkinson, and Cundy, that will be good enough for me. If we lose one of them, then we certainly do need to source another as the others aren't up to the level imo and I've not seen anyone coming through from the youth ranks. Towler has a future but he doesn't look ready for the championship to me and Idehen is an unknown at this point. Pring could prove himself to be a decent back up.

[ciderwithtommy]

Yep Baker will have insurance, which pays out based on expected earnings after the point at which his injury forced him to retire. Based on what he has earnt to date in his career, it’s likely a big sum. No sugar coating how gutting it is for him tho, feel for him, what a huge blow if it is true. 

[GrahamC]

32 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

That's what we want to happen. But you state it as if this will happen. 

Badly worded on your part? Because you surely know there's a world of difference between what we want and reality.

Can you seriously see another Championship club wanting to take Vyner? I can't.

If not, do you think he'd jump at the chance of playing League One? I don't. 

Which means we're stuck with him.

Fwiw, I don't think Hearts will want to turn Moore's loan into a permanent move. And having been unconvinced by him from day 1, I'm struggling to understand why anyone would want to sign him permanently tbh. 

Which means we're stuck with him, too. 

It'll be a miracle if these 2 leave in the summer along with Palmer and Wells, imo. 

My guess is that if they do go, they’ll both end up in L1.

Vyner did well at Argyle & their fans rated him, he has probably already been told he can leave, so unless he digs his heels in that is the sort of club that could be interested.

You’re right, Moore’s loan at Hearts is going badly, he lost his place a while ago, couldn’t get a game a week or so ago when they were in the middle of a huge injury crisis & is often an unused sub now.

He has had a lot of loans so maybe a L1 side would take him on a free? 
Just as likely that if there is no interest in taking them permanently or they won’t go that we end up loaning both of them out until their contracts end, I suppose.
 

[Sleepy1968]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

City’s insurance will cover the clubs losses. There might be cover that pays the player n retirement, but the player will have his own personal coverage. All of which will need a couple of doctors reports and insurance assessment. 

I think I broadly agree with you. My uninformed speculation of a football player advised to retire by an appropriate medical professional would be that

1. the club will have to continue wage payments up to the end of the contracted period. So the clubs losses are defined as a loss in relation to salary payments and future (transfer) value. I'm not sure if any of that would be routinely insured.

2. Loss of the player's expected future earnings beyond his current contract may or may not be covered by personal coverage (possibly a certain level is covered by the PFA, who could probably self insure a reasonable level of coverage). Any insured coverage will be subject to terms, and may run into issues e.g. if the insurer's doctor (who would certainly give the insurer unbiased advice) disagrees with the medical assessment that the player should retire.

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Are you referring to insurance for covid losses?  If so, there has been nothing listed in the accounts for either of the last reported years accounts (19/20 and 20/21).  I’d suggest we had no insurance, or nothing of the magnitude of Luton and Boro (£2.75m).

Noooo. I was referring to insurance regarding Bakers injury. The club will have insurance to cover there asset. To what extent Baker is covered will be a factor of anything the club might have for him, anything the PFA has or requires and what he has personally. 

[Sir Geoff]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Read something last week that a lot of PL clubs have insurance, but that it is high premium for a limited amount of cover, e.g. £250k.

We didn’t have “business interruption” insurance like some clubs, think it was Luton who claimed £2.5m as a result of covid.

Need someone like @Coppelloto tell us what industry practice is on this sort of thing.

Price of Football, last Sunday. Was a specific question asked. Seems like lack of availability helps in some way re finances. KM quoted Chelski claiming £17 million in their accounts for a certain £75 m goalkeeper who is always on the bench. Sorry not exactly sure of specifics  (even though I only listened this morning).

[Bodiesaffer]

4 hours ago, Shuffle said:

Thought he was very good yesterday as was the whole back 3.  What I did learn yesterday is that there is life without Kalas as thought we would struggle massively.  In fairness, that’s the tightest we’ve been for a long time & only 2 shots on target for WBA all game 

Agree, we looked very balanced at the back with the two wing back too.

[BCFCGav]

More games like that from Cundy and it’ll be an easier decision in the summer, looks good enough for cover at least. With Klose’s age, I think the summer might be the time to thank him for helping us see out the season to safety and parting ways. Especially with our ability to keep players fit. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

That's what we want to happen. But you state it as if this will happen. 

Badly worded on your part? Because you surely know there's a world of difference between what we want and reality.

Can you seriously see another Championship club wanting to take Vyner? I can't.

If not, do you think he'd jump at the chance of playing League One? I don't. 

Which means we're stuck with him.

Fwiw, I don't think Hearts will want to turn Moore's loan into a permanent move. And having been unconvinced by him from day 1, I'm struggling to understand why anyone would want to sign him permanently tbh. 

Which means we're stuck with him, too. 

It'll be a miracle if these 2 leave in the summer along with Palmer and Wells, imo. 

Some League One clubs have more wriggle room re their own version of FFP (SCMP), where owners can actually inject money (not loans) that counts towards “turnover” and therefore increases how much they can spend on wages.  Fees aren’t part of the equation.  So Vyner and Moore could for example go into League One on as good money as they are here.  Might revise my view of Ashton if he takes both and O’Dowda

50 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Noooo. I was referring to insurance regarding Bakers injury. The club will have insurance to cover there asset. To what extent Baker is covered will be a factor of anything the club might have for him, anything the PFA has or requires and what he has personally. 

As it stands from a pure accounting purpose Baker is worth zero in the accounts, his contract had fully amortised last summer.  In effect he was a free transfer.

@Coppello had previously said that clubs didn’t have insurance for injuries per se, because of cost, but no idea re retirement.  It was discussed re Sala transfer to Cardiff and whether life insurance might be on some “club policy”.  He did say clubs often cover summer tournaments in case their player comes back crocked.  The £250k figure I mentioned previously was from something I heard re Ryan Mason re paying his wages…but that wouldn’t have covered many weeks!

48 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Price of Football, last Sunday. Was a specific question asked. Seems like lack of availability helps in some way re finances. KM quoted Chelski claiming £17 million in their accounts for a certain £75 m goalkeeper who is always on the bench. Sorry not exactly sure of specifics  (even though I only listened this morning).

That wasn’t to do with insurance, that was an impairment (I.e. a cost) on their accounts.  They revalued his contract down in effect.

[TDarwall]

Some clubs definitely have life insurance & the sums assured can go to 10's of millions for top players. The benefit would go to the club not the dependents of the player (you'd expect most players to have their own life ins in place).  In my experience more clubs buy Personal Accident cover (which would cover a career ending injury) than life cover (as its more likely to occur).  Things could get very tricky with any policy covering Bakes as its an accumulation of similar incidents rather than a defined incident, would all come down to the precise wording (& poss some expensive lawyers!).

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Some League One clubs have more wriggle room re their own version of FFP (SCMP), where owners can actually inject money (not loans) that counts towards “turnover” and therefore increases how much they can spend on wages.  Fees aren’t part of the equation.  So Vyner and Moore could for example go into League One on as good money as they are here.  Might revise my view of Ashton if he takes both and O’Dowda

As it stands from a pure accounting purpose Baker is worth zero in the accounts, his contract had fully amortised last summer.  In effect he was a free transfer.

@Coppello had previously said that clubs didn’t have insurance for injuries per se, because of cost, but no idea re retirement.  It was discussed re Sala transfer to Cardiff and whether life insurance might be on some “club policy”.  He did say clubs often cover summer tournaments in case their player comes back crocked.  The £250k figure I mentioned previously was from something I heard re Ryan Mason re paying his wages…but that wouldn’t have covered many weeks!

That wasn’t to do with insurance, that was an impairment (I.e. a cost) on their accounts.  They revalued his contract down in effect.

Being worth zero in the accounts is quite a separate issue as far as insurance of a player who can no longer play due to injury and what the club may insure itself for. If I may give the Walmart example they insure their staff and they Walmart are the beneficiary if the staff member dies. This earns them money in excess of the cost, pure statistics and macabre. Yes before anyone says Baker isn’t dead but the same rationale can be applied to players who have career ending injuries, dependent on age. But we can brush over that as that is BCFC loss. And I’m not quite sure I care that much. 
 

The fact remains regardless of Bristol City FC players will have insurance either personally or through the PFA or both for career ending injuries which will require sign off by multiple party’s, probably containing some sort of age contract related sliding scale. 
 

The poor fella who was killed going to Cardiff is an interesting one as the clubs and the clubs insurers were (not sure if they still are) were fighting over who actually owned the poor bugger! 
 

How much does that suck!?
 

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by REDOXO

[robin_unreliant]

I was interested in NP's post match comments to Bristol Live where he said they totally changed the system for defending set pieces. 

Maybe @Davefevs or one of our other experts on here could give us some insight on that? It seems we were more solid in that regard. Let's hope they have found an answer to that issue at least.

Just need to stop giving away goals in the last ten minutes and we're sorted. 

[Davefevs]

38 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

The fact remains regardless of Bristol City FC players will have insurance either personally or through the PFA or both for career ending injuries which will require sign off by multiple party’s, probably containing some sort of age contract related sliding scale. 

Good point.

[Davefevs]

33 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

I was interested in NP's post match comments to Bristol Live where he said they totally changed the system for defending set pieces. 

Maybe @Davefevs or one of our other experts on here could give us some insight on that? It seems we were more solid in that regard. Let's hope they have found an answer to that issue at least.

Just need to stop giving away goals in the last ten minutes and we're sorted. 

I started a thread this morning.

 

[robin_unreliant]

Apologies, I should try scrolling a bit more before typing