Defensive Corners - The Change

[Davefevs]

So what was the change.

Previously:

4 players along / inside the 6-yard box, 6 players blocking / marking.  Nobody left up-top. One of the 4 will do the short

Yesterday:

7 players zonal, crowding the likely target for delivery, Dasilva short (yeah, yeah, no puns), HNM marking / blocking. Wells left up top.

Second corner they go short so James assists Dasilva.

@Cowshed- care to give a coaches technical wording?

 

[The Bard]

Defending corners is about allowing your best headers to concentrate on attacking the ball whilst others either Mark players or mark space. We had ot sussed with Fam. 

[Red-Robbo]

On a side note, I think Massengo had his best ever game for us defensively.  Normally, I'd saying clearing the ball from our box was not his strong suit, but he made several crucial interceptions.  

[Lrrr]

Image below is Barnsley

Looks like difference is keeping someone in 6 yard box regardless of if one has to go short to match numbers, still have the 3 on edge of 6 yard box but then another change in the 2 just outside the edge of the 6 yard box rather than being engaged with their players when the corners is played in

[Waconda]

Looked 100% better and players were confident in what was being asked, looked totally confused and unsure before.

West Broms deliveries into the box were poor overall though so think the Bournemouth game will give us a better chance to judge but finally some attention to detail and success in keeping the ball out of the net.

[Cowshed]

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So what was the change.

Previously:

4 players along / inside the 6-yard box, 6 players blocking / marking.  Nobody left up-top. One of the 4 will do the short

Yesterday:

7 players zonal, crowding the likely target for delivery, Dasilva short (yeah, yeah, no puns), HNM marking / blocking. Wells left up top.

Second corner they go short so James assists Dasilva.

@Cowshed- care to give a coaches technical wording?

 

Thats a challenge I wont answer. Its a hybrid of differing things and not a general 4-4 etc. 

The different system is five instead of three players centrally occupying the space the team have been conceding (x3) recently from. 

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Image below is Barnsley

Looks like difference is keeping someone in 6 yard box regardless of if one has to go short to match numbers, still have the 3 on edge of 6 yard box but then another change in the 2 just outside the edge of the 6 yard box rather than being engaged with their players when the corners is played in

By not having anyone marking / blocking, other than HNM, it meant none of our players got blocked off.  I guess the disadvantage is opponent jumping on the run, whereas we’d be from standing start.  The other advantage is you can watch ball flight rather than ball-flight and opponent.

Its rather basic, but maybe that’s what our players need?

Then again, it’s just one game too.  Will need to watch it over several more corners.

[GrahamC]

23 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

On a side note, I think Massengo had his best ever game for us defensively.  Normally, I'd saying clearing the ball from our box was not his strong suit, but he made several crucial interceptions.  

He certainly did, my frustration with him is he will still play a blind pass when we are defending.

Did so to Atkinson once yesterday & put him in trouble & just won’t simply clear the ball long at times, causing us to lose possession in dangerous areas.

One of his better games of late (personally I would still have subbed him late on to run down the clock) though, to be fair.

[And Its Smith]

Pearson is a dick sometimes isn’t he.  Incredibly arrogant response 

On another note, two very common things in football make me laugh.  Fans moaning about keepers punching and fans moaning about zonal marking from corners.  Nearly every keeper nowadays prefers to punch and I would say a majority of teams either exclusively or part, zonal mark from corners.  
 

There’s obviously a reason for it that the professional coaches are coaching. 

[Lrrr]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

By not having anyone marking / blocking, other than HNM, it meant none of our players got blocked off.  I guess the disadvantage is opponent jumping on the run, whereas we’d be from standing start.  The other advantage is you can watch ball flight rather than ball-flight and opponent.

Its rather basic, but maybe that’s what our players need?

Then again, it’s just one game too.  Will need to watch it over several more corners.

Also depends where we expected West Brom to play corners to, hang over the 6 yard box then yes West Brom get a running start, delivered further away from the 6 yard box line then we can attack it with at least some momentum 

[chinapig]

7 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Pearson is a dick sometimes isn’t he.  Incredibly arrogant response 

On another note, two very common things in football make me laugh.  Fans moaning about keepers punching and fans moaning about zonal marking from corners.  Nearly every keeper nowadays prefers to punch and I would say a majority of teams either exclusively or part, zonal mark from corners.  
 

There’s obviously a reason for it that the professional coaches are coaching. 

I thought he was very reasonable and informative in Thursday's press conference so I was disappointed with his response.

He is an expert so if I was to ask him a question I would hope he would give me the benefit of his expertise rather than put me down. Unless I claimed to be an expert myself*, in which case I might be fair game.

*spoiler: I'm not.

[bcfc01]

16 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Pearson is a dick sometimes isn’t he.  Incredibly arrogant response 

On another note, two very common things in football make me laugh.  Fans moaning about keepers punching and fans moaning about zonal marking from corners.  Nearly every keeper nowadays prefers to punch and I would say a majority of teams either exclusively or part, zonal mark from corners.  
 

There’s obviously a reason for it that the professional coaches are coaching. 

It came across as a rather unnecessary response to a valid question.

The interviewer should have responded in the same terms - "well, you're the expert, not me or the supporters, so for the benefit of us thickos, what was the change"

 

[pl00peh91]

14 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

It came across as a rather unnecessary response to a valid question.

The interviewer should have responded in the same terms - "well, you're the expert, not me or the supporters, so for the benefit of us thickos, what was the change"

 

His response to that would probably be if, as a journalist, you get paid to take pot shots at myself and my team every week, you should probably elevate yourself from the status of “thicko” in order to inform your analysis and opinions on my team 

[And Its Smith]

14 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

It came across as a rather unnecessary response to a valid question.

The interviewer should have responded in the same terms - "well, you're the expert, not me or the supporters, so for the benefit of us thickos, what was the change"

 

Absolutely.  It should have been turned back on him.  I appreciate that Pearson doesn’t really want to be doing it but it is part of his job!  Plus in about 6 months time he might be fighting for his job so it might help him if fans and journalists don’t think of him as an arrogant tosser. 

[firstdivision]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

On a side note, I think Massengo had his best ever game for us defensively.  Normally, I'd saying clearing the ball from our box was not his strong suit, but he made several crucial interceptions.  

I agree. I thought he was superb. 

[Robbored]

It’s not just City that struggle to defend corners. Everton just conceded from a Palace corner. Guehi gets a free header and these are both PL outfits.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Robbored

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

I thought he was very reasonable and informative in Thursday's press conference so I was disappointed with his response.

He is an expert so if I was to ask him a question I would hope he would give me the benefit of his expertise rather than put me down. Unless I claimed to be an expert myself*, in which case I might be fair game.

*spoiler: I'm not.

I would definitely call him out on that. A lot of people act like dicks to me, I don't really understand why. I find it really frustrating and annoying when Nige talks like that to people.

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Pearson is a dick sometimes isn’t he.  Incredibly arrogant response 

On another note, two very common things in football make me laugh.  Fans moaning about keepers punching and fans moaning about zonal marking from corners.  Nearly every keeper nowadays prefers to punch and I would say a majority of teams either exclusively or part, zonal mark from corners.  
 

There’s obviously a reason for it that the professional coaches are coaching. 

The interviewer could have responded with its not a totally different system/complete change because literally it is not. The alterations are significant but not total or a complete change in system. You pulled a player out of here to create more obvious numerical superiority here, but why is that?  

Information sharing with fans, getting fans to buy into and support playing approach (team identity?) is a good thing. Zonal marking - Defending masters Arsenal under Graham marked zonally at set pieces. A point there for Mr Pearson as Arsenal fans knew what their team was about.

 

[Numero Uno]

16 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

The interviewer could have responded with its not a totally different system/complete change because literally it is not. The alterations are significant but not total or a complete change in system. You pulled a player out of here to create more obvious numerical superiority here, but why is that?  

Information sharing with fans, getting fans to buy into and support playing approach (team identity?) is a good thing. Zonal marking - Defending masters Arsenal under Graham marked zonally at set pieces. A point there for Mr Pearson as Arsenal fans knew what their team was about.

 

The interviewer could have responded with that…..if they had spotted it of course.

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

He certainly did, my frustration with him is he will still play a blind pass when we are defending.

Did so to Atkinson once yesterday & put him in trouble & just won’t simply clear the ball long at times

For some reason I remember a cry of "put snow on it" during one of the games in Lyon, all those years ago. (Not the only lasting memory tbf!) Perhaps we could get one of the Atomic Spuds over to translate this into Franglais for HNM? 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The interviewer could have responded with that…..if they had spotted it of course.

I take quite a few photos during games (or screenshots if Robinstv), things like set pieces, shape etc.  You can’t always work out what is happening as a supporter trying to watch a game at the same time, but useful for reflection post-match.

Good to hear Pearson talk about them splitting their midfield second half, because other teams have done that against us quite a bit this season at AG.  Yesterday we adapted, although it took a time to react.  I feared the worst at 1-1, but we actually regained a grip for the final 20 minutes…just not the 93rd minute!

[Waconda]

4 hours ago, chinapig said:

I thought he was very reasonable and informative in Thursday's press conference so I was disappointed with his response.

He is an expert so if I was to ask him a question I would hope he would give me the benefit of his expertise rather than put me down. Unless I claimed to be an expert myself*, in which case I might be fair game.

*spoiler: I'm not.

My worry would be if he spoke to the players in a similar dismissive manner. 

I do believe however that this is more of a "pantomime villain" show for the press. Still not a good look though.

[Daniro]

On 20/03/2022 at 13:21, Cowshed said:

The interviewer could have responded with its not a totally different system/complete change because literally it is not. The alterations are significant but not total or a complete change in system. You pulled a player out of here to create more obvious numerical superiority here, but why is that?  

Information sharing with fans, getting fans to buy into and support playing approach (team identity?) is a good thing. Zonal marking - Defending masters Arsenal under Graham marked zonally at set pieces. A point there for Mr Pearson as Arsenal fans knew what their team was about.

 

The interviewer could also have responded,

 

" If you're such an expert, why have your teams conceded so many goals at corners?" 

 

or

 

"If you're such an expert, why do your teams always concede in injury time?"

 

I've been a fan of NP but being snarky when he really has yet to prove anything to anybody is not a good look.

 

 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

On the defending from corners issue. I am sure Bournemouth will watch lots of video of our games so will see the normal Chaos and our better system against wba and try to design ways they think will recreate the chaos. It will be interesting to see how the game goes 

[Cowshed]

11 hours ago, Daniro said:

The interviewer could also have responded,

 

" If you're such an expert, why have your teams conceded so many goals at corners?" 

 

or

 

"If you're such an expert, why do your teams always concede in injury time?"

I've been a fan of NP but being snarky when he really has yet to prove anything to anybody is not a good look.

 

And here they could be benefits beyond being terse. This is the team Mr Pearosn manages and coaches. He has have been in the job for a significant periods. That team is a reflection of his Management and ideas. Self reflection and explaining how improvement will be made, how his principles and standards will drive this improvement is Management. Its quite a normal form of Management where the Manager shares what his team will be good at.

Mr Pearson arrived with a reputation of being a organiser. Expectation would his team could defend corners .. Well recently its been shit. It appears difficult for fans to highlight what BCFC are consistently good at, or how they are going to improve.

Want fan buy in, support, improve yourself and that team Mr Pearson.  

[Beni71]

On 20/03/2022 at 10:27, Davefevs said:

So what was the change.

Previously:

4 players along / inside the 6-yard box, 6 players blocking / marking.  Nobody left up-top. One of the 4 will do the short

Yesterday:

7 players zonal, crowding the likely target for delivery, Dasilva short (yeah, yeah, no puns), HNM marking / blocking. Wells left up top.

Second corner they go short so James assists Dasilva.

@Cowshed- care to give a coaches technical wording?

 

Call me old fashioned @Davefevsbut don’t seem to have many teams have a player on each post (like the old days). Arguably Helik’s goal and Crooks goal could have been prevented/cleared?

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, Beni71 said:

Call me old fashioned @Davefevsbut don’t seem to have many teams have a player on each post (like the old days). Arguably Helik’s goal and Crooks goal could have been prevented/cleared?

Been covered before…

Not saying it’s my preference, but here’s the modern day thinking.

[Beni71]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Been covered before…

Not saying it’s my preference, but here’s the modern day thinking.

It’s all about Data @Davefevs

[1960maaan]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Been covered before…

Not saying it’s my preference, but here’s the modern day thinking.

I get the theory, but if you add no players on the posts, and none left up front but you still concede ? 

The area should be packed with defenders and no room for runners 

 

 

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, Beni71 said:

It’s all about Data @Davefevs

In this case there’s also a fair bit of common sense, especially the bit about leaving players offside.

15 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I get the theory, but if you add no players on the posts, and none left up front but you still concede ? 

The area should be packed with defenders and no room for runners 

 

 

Being a bit contrary () if want to pack the area, can you leave anyone up top?

With all these things there’s not necessarily a “right way”, it’s about adopting the best for the players you have. Up until Xmas we were very good defending corners.  I think we got “sussed”!