Davefevs Posted March 31, 2022 Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 We often hear fans bemoan the player who passes backwards, yet it’s clear we have to look at why they that and what happens next. A really interesting article from Leeds fan and analyst Josh Hobbs can be found below. There is a nice bit of focus on Alex Scott (keep your hands off!). But also Han-Noah Massengo makes Josh’s list too. Well worth a read, and it includes some video clips to help explain it too. @Harry helps show where Wyscout data doesn’t always bring the “recyclers” to the fore. Oh, to gets access to Statsbomb and the like to start to analyse chains of passes and their threat. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted March 31, 2022 Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 Bloody hell Dave, leave me something to moan about. Backwards play is my pet hate!!!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted March 31, 2022 Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 Good read that. You need the right movement off the ball from others as well to make the most of it but it's well highlighted in the cliips. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 31, 2022 Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 30 minutes ago, Gazred said: Good read that. You need the right movement off the ball from others as well to make the most of it but it's well highlighted in the cliips. Of course the player in possession needs passing options and it’s sometimes necessary to pass back in order to maintain possession. I certainly don’t have a problem with that. The only time this season that I had an issue was when Klose kept passing either sideways or back to Bentley when Dasilva was available……….…. I was against the Baggies iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted March 31, 2022 Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Robbored said: Of course the player in possession needs passing options and it’s sometimes necessary to pass back in order to maintain possession. I certainly don’t have a problem with that. The only time this season that I had an issue was when Klose kept passing either sideways or back to Bentley when Dasilva was available……….…. I was against the Baggies iirc. It could be far more sensible to play the ball back to Bentley depending on the position of the opposition players. A cross field pass could be more open to interception, also Dasilva may have been marked in such a way that there is no forward option to him from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted March 31, 2022 Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 I was watching St Jack Grealish the other night and he was continually shouting for the ball. He made one decent through pass but generally received the ball with nowhere to go and therefore passed the ball straight back. I could understand this if it gave the other players a chance to regroup but nothing else seemed to be be happening. Am I missing something with this £100,000,000 player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 31, 2022 Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 17 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: It could be far more sensible to play the ball back to Bentley depending on the position of the opposition players. A cross field pass could be more open to interception, also Dasilva may have been marked in such a way that there is no forward option to him from there. He wasn’t marked, no opposition player within 20 yards of him. We all know that Dasilva has quick feet and if he’d got closed down would have found a teammate with his ball skills but several times Klose chose to lay it back to Bentley instead. I found that really irritating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenGem7 Posted March 31, 2022 Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 It seems clear that the advent of data analytics is starting to drive perverse behaviours on the pitch, with some players clearly more concerned with preserving their Pass Completion %age than making progressive passes. Liam Walsh is one that always seemed to me to be doing this, and that may have been down to LJ's belief in stats. Pearson seems less interested in data than previous managers, but its clearly still important and is discussed in group sessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted March 31, 2022 Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 A strategy based on high percentage of backwards passing is not entertaining just my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Midred said: I was watching St Jack Grealish the other night and he was continually shouting for the ball. He made one decent through pass but generally received the ball with nowhere to go and therefore passed the ball straight back. I could understand this if it gave the other players a chance to regroup but nothing else seemed to be be happening. Am I missing something with this £100,000,000 player? I didn’t watch the game, but here’s his ball receipt and ball passing maps, then I overlaid on top of each other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted March 31, 2022 Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 43 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I didn’t watch the game, but here’s his ball receipt and ball passing maps, then I overlaid on top of each other. We come away from games with an impression of what a player did but we think it is an accurate memory. We like to think we are objective but that impression may be distorted by whether we rate the player or not also. Which is why visualisations like yours are so useful. Looks a pretty balanced range of passing to me. The key one being the pull back on the half volley that set up Sterling's goal. Most players would have taken a touch first and the chance might have been lost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphindevon Posted March 31, 2022 Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 No analysis is complete until you’ve shown a clip of us not getting a penalty. interesting stuff though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Louie louie Posted April 1, 2022 Report Share Posted April 1, 2022 The great liverpool team of the 80s, the masters of the back pass. From 43 minutes on, hansen,and co kept the ball amongst themselves, till the whistle blew. Most teams were happy to see the half out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted April 1, 2022 Report Share Posted April 1, 2022 17 hours ago, Midred said: I was watching St Jack Grealish the other night and he was continually shouting for the ball. He made one decent through pass but generally received the ball with nowhere to go and therefore passed the ball straight back. I could understand this if it gave the other players a chance to regroup but nothing else seemed to be be happening. Am I missing something with this £100,000,000 player? Remember watching Messi in his pomp at Camp Nou in a standard La Liga game and he spent the first 60 minutes receiving it then laying it off, either sideways or backwards. Not a dribble in sight. If he'd played it forward every time he'd have probably given it away continuously. What's the point in getting it forward when there is no one to pass to? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted April 1, 2022 Report Share Posted April 1, 2022 2 hours ago, The Bard said: Remember watching Messi in his pomp at Camp Nou in a standard La Liga game and he spent the first 60 minutes receiving it then laying it off, either sideways or backwards. Not a dribble in sight. If he'd played it forward every time he'd have probably given it away continuously. What's the point in getting it forward when there is no one to pass to? Have to admit that I only saw 15 minutes in the second half before he got subbed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted April 1, 2022 Report Share Posted April 1, 2022 8 hours ago, The Bard said: Remember watching Messi in his pomp at Camp Nou in a standard La Liga game and he spent the first 60 minutes receiving it then laying it off, either sideways or backwards. Not a dribble in sight. If he'd played it forward every time he'd have probably given it away continuously. What's the point in getting it forward when there is no one to pass to? Yes the essential thing is too keep possession of the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted April 1, 2022 Report Share Posted April 1, 2022 On 31/03/2022 at 14:43, Robbored said: I was against the Baggies iirc. Why were you against the Baggies? Was it the accent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted April 1, 2022 Report Share Posted April 1, 2022 On 31/03/2022 at 13:09, Davefevs said: There is a nice bit of focus on Alex Scott (keep your hands off!). But also Han-Noah Massengo makes Josh’s list too. “a corner was awarded rather than the penalty he hoped for…..”. Story of our season!! Interesting - thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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