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Without prompting Pearson highlights the usual farce of City being forbidden clear penalties so what does our Head of Communications do but steer the conversation swiftly away onto something altogether more mundane.

Why is the club obsessed with treating us to this sanitised sycophantic waffle like we're not allowed to hear controversy and everything needs a Bristol Sport airbrushing. I'd like to know what NP thinks about refereeing please.

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13 minutes ago, Olé said:

Without prompting Pearson highlights the usual farce of City being forbidden clear penalties so what does our Head of Communications do but steer the conversation swiftly away onto something altogether more mundane.

Why is the club obsessed with treating us to this sanitised sycophantic waffle like we're not allowed to hear controversy and everything needs a Bristol Sport airbrushing. I'd like to know what NP thinks about refereeing please.

But why aren’t we winning penalties?  I don’t buy the notion of biased refereeing - why us? - and if it was just poor refereeing then surely it would even itself out over the season?  So I can only think it’s either that we don’t create enough situations that are likely to lead to penalties, or that we don’t go down well enough.  Perhaps we need a bit of drama coaching…

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19 minutes ago, Olé said:

Without prompting Pearson highlights the usual farce of City being forbidden clear penalties so what does our Head of Communications do but steer the conversation swiftly away onto something altogether more mundane.

Why is the club obsessed with treating us to this sanitised sycophantic waffle like we're not allowed to hear controversy and everything needs a Bristol Sport airbrushing. I'd like to know what NP thinks about refereeing please.

Perhaps Bristol Sport have to pay his fines when he does tell us what he thinks about refereeing.

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29 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

But why aren’t we winning penalties?  I don’t buy the notion of biased refereeing - why us? - and if it was just poor refereeing then surely it would even itself out over the season?  So I can only think it’s either that we don’t create enough situations that are likely to lead to penalties, or that we don’t go down well enough.  Perhaps we need a bit of drama coaching…

Although I don’t think referees are inherently biased, I think there was an incident yesterday which made the ref less likely to give us a penalty.

Early in the second half, he gave a poor decision. A full pint came flying from the city fans onto the pitch. He walked over, looked highly indignant, spoke to the steward and from that point on, we had no decisions.

I’m not saying referees aren’t incompetent and I’m not saying they’re corrupt. What I think can happen is when they get shit, they naturally don’t want to aid the people who give them the shit!

Easy solution is, obviously, better referees…

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4 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Although I don’t think referees are inherently biased, I think there was an incident yesterday which made the ref less likely to give us a penalty.

Early in the second half, he gave a poor decision. A full pint came flying from the city fans onto the pitch. He walked over, looked highly indignant, spoke to the steward and from that point on, we had no decisions.

I’m not saying referees aren’t incompetent and I’m not saying they’re corrupt. What I think can happen is when they get shit, they naturally don’t want to aid the people who give them the shit!

Easy solution is, obviously, better referees…

But when they get shit from the perceived bigger team’s fans / players, they give them decisions.

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1 hour ago, Olé said:

Without prompting Pearson highlights the usual farce of City being forbidden clear penalties so what does our Head of Communications do but steer the conversation swiftly away onto something altogether more mundane.

Why is the club obsessed with treating us to this sanitised sycophantic waffle like we're not allowed to hear controversy and everything needs a Bristol Sport airbrushing. I'd like to know what NP thinks about refereeing please.

I’d rather hear what the ref had to say about the incident to be honest. He clearly had a view: he very deliberately ran around Martin afterwards and I assume he was letting him know why he hadn’t given it - which is fair enough. I’d love to know what he said though. It’s a pity refs aren’t allowed to explain. 

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It is a really massive summer for Pearson........he HAS to get it right, City fans deserve better, for their tremendous    loyalty and support?  With the economic situation and the cost of living biting peoples pockets, fans will want some excitement and value for money.  Season ticket sales will almost certainly take a hit, as people prioritise their expenditure, so a massive dose of optimism and expectation is needed close season, and City and Pearson need to deliver?

  Fans look at Luton and Forest etc, and it is no wonder they get frustrated, when they see the fantastic facilities, infrastructure and potential of our club, and the big mess that we have created on the one place that really counts.............the playing field.   We need a plan and positive way forward, so it is absolutely imperative that we wheel and deal in the transfer  market, to bring in physically strong talent that has character and ability, and essentially leadership and pride.  Pearson has until November/December to get it right, or he will be out of the door IMHO.  I wish him well.

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20 minutes ago, italian dave said:

He clearly had a view: he very deliberately ran around Martin afterwards and I assume he was letting him know why he hadn’t given it - which is fair enough.

Well exactly.

It wasn't missed as he acknowledged the incident as you say by running over but made no decision at all. I'd have more sympathy for refs if they communicated their thinking, if he thinks it's a dive he should have the bottle to say so.

And if our manager believes it is significant to the game as his summary indicates he evidently did I'd like to hear about it before Dave Barton steers him back onto the usual meaningless formulaic platitudes that pass for official "reaction".

 

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1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

But why aren’t we winning penalties?  I don’t buy the notion of biased refereeing - why us? - and if it was just poor refereeing then surely it would even itself out over the season?  So I can only think it’s either that we don’t create enough situations that are likely to lead to penalties, or that we don’t go down well enough.  Perhaps we need a bit of drama coaching…

Alex Scott was assaulted against both Forest and QPR at 1-0 up in both games if I recall correctly. Literally taken out both times. Shocking refereeing on both occasions or do you think both decisions were correct?

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

But when they get shit from the perceived bigger team’s fans / players, they give them decisions.

The unconscious bias already exists in officials minds before the game starts, crowds at the event have little affect as it already exists.

Happens in all sports. Boxing scoring a prime example - IMO.

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16 minutes ago, Olé said:

Well exactly.

It wasn't missed as he acknowledged the incident as you say by running over but made no decision at all. I'd have more sympathy for refs if they communicated their thinking, if he thinks it's a dive he should have the bottle to say so.

And if our manager believes it is significant to the game as his summary indicates he evidently did I'd like to hear about it before Dave Barton steers him back onto the usual meaningless formulaic platitudes that pass for official "reaction".

 

I don’t think refs are allowed to comment though, are they? It may well be that he’d be happy to explain, but can’t? 

I kind of get why the club doesn’t want the media team to “encourage” NP to comment on refs decisions for a while.

I haven’t seen a replay yet, but as I said earlier I wasn’t 100% convinced at the time - although of course I screamed for it as loudly as the next person! I thought Lloyd Kelly did well (I still love watching him play, just as much as I did when he was a City player!) because he stayed upright, and that’s always going to increase the likelihood of getting the decision in your favour as a defender. The challenge can look much more like shoulder to shoulder, clash of legs, getting your body in the way, than if you go to ground or go flying in. I think that may be what the ref would have claimed, rather than an outright dive. 

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43 minutes ago, maxjak said:

We need a plan and positive way forward, so it is absolutely imperative that we wheel and deal in the transfer  market, to bring in physically strong talent that has character and ability, and essentially leadership and pride. 

…and that’s the hard bit.  Until we either move a player or two on, or create some budget with re-contracting those players we paid fees for who have a year left, we really can’t move.  We’ve seen how difficult it is to move on players you don’t want when they are on wages that nobody else will pay.  Mutual termination weakens our financial position, for any posters thinking that is the way to get rid of them.

If we can arrive in September with anything like a stronger, better balanced squad (on paper) it will have been a very successful summer.  We are being massively hampered by what has gone on previously.  The likelihood is that the summer feels more like inching towards what Pearson wants, rather than striding into next season.

We have to get through next season with Championship status intact as a bare minimum.  That sounds like setting the bar incredibly low, but until we see who moves and what budget it creates it’s really a massive unknown.  As it stands even bringing is a “George Tanner” is out of budget currently.

I guess we will start to build the picture when we know what is happening to those OOC this summer plus Baker:

  • Andy King
  • Robbie Cundy
  • Callum O’Dowda
  • Timm Klose
  • Nathan Baker

Then we are into the likes of the players with no future (alleged / speculation) or too costly to keep based on minutes:

  • Taylor Moore
  • Tyreeq Bakinson
  • Kasey Palmer
  • Nahki Wells

can we get a fee and all of their wages picked up?  Here’s hoping.  If someone like Palmer doesn’t want to leave, we are stuck with the best part of £2m completely tied up.

and then we are into those with a year left who cost us fees:

  • Tomas Kalas
  • Dan Bentley
  • Han-Noah Massengo

It really is gonna be a nervy summer.

Whats left might not actually be what Pearson wants, just that he can’t “trade” them either!  Sorry to depress OTIB on a sunny, Sunday morning.

 

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1 hour ago, maxjak said:

It is a really massive summer for Pearson........he HAS to get it right, City fans deserve better, for their tremendous    loyalty and support?  With the economic situation and the cost of living biting peoples pockets, fans will want some excitement and value for money.  Season ticket sales will almost certainly take a hit, as people prioritise their expenditure, so a massive dose of optimism and expectation is needed close season, and City and Pearson need to deliver?

  Fans look at Luton and Forest etc, and it is no wonder they get frustrated, when they see the fantastic facilities, infrastructure and potential of our club, and the big mess that we have created on the one place that really counts.............the playing field.   We need a plan and positive way forward, so it is absolutely imperative that we wheel and deal in the transfer  market, to bring in physically strong talent that has character and ability, and essentially leadership and pride.  Pearson has until November/December to get it right, or he will be out of the door IMHO.  I wish him well.

I can’t see the point of giving Pearson the window and then getting rid in November 

If they are considering doing that then just do it now and give a new bloke the window, otherwise we just go round in circles with all new managers managing other managers players constantly 

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3 minutes ago, Rob k said:

I can’t see the point of giving Pearson the window and then getting rid in November 

If they are considering doing that then just do it now and give a new bloke the window, otherwise we just go round in circles with all new managers managing other managers players constantly 

Yep, you either follow the plan….or start a new one.

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10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

…and that’s the hard bit.  Until we either move a player or two on, or create some budget with re-contracting those players we paid fees for who have a year left, we really can’t move.  We’ve seen how difficult it is to move on players you don’t want when they are on wages that nobody else will pay.  Mutual termination weakens our financial position, for any posters thinking that is the way to get rid of them.

If we can arrive in September with anything like a stronger, better balanced squad (on paper) it will have been a very successful summer.  We are being massively hampered by what has gone on previously.  The likelihood is that the summer feels more like inching towards what Pearson wants, rather than striding into next season.

We have to get through next season with Championship status intact as a bare minimum.  That sounds like setting the bar incredibly low, but until we see who moves and what budget it creates it’s really a massive unknown.  As it stands even bringing is a “George Tanner” is out of budget currently.

I guess we will start to build the picture when we know what is happening to those OOC this summer plus Baker:

  • Andy King
  • Robbie Cundy
  • Callum O’Dowda
  • Timm Klose
  • Nathan Baker

Then we are into the likes of the players with no future (alleged / speculation) or too costly to keep based on minutes:

  • Taylor Moore
  • Tyreeq Bakinson
  • Kasey Palmer
  • Nahki Wells

can we get a fee and all of their wages picked up?  Here’s hoping.  If someone like Palmer doesn’t want to leave, we are stuck with the best part of £2m completely tied up.

and then we are into those with a year left who cost us fees:

  • Tomas Kalas
  • Dan Bentley
  • Han-Noah Massengo

It really is gonna be a nervy summer.

Whats left might not actually be what Pearson wants, just that he can’t “trade” them either!  Sorry to depress OTIB on a sunny, Sunday morning.

 

Exactly my way of thinking in what has to be a realistic scenario. NP hinted recently that Klose may be staying beyond the season ( I guess that depends on a number of things, contract we can offer compared to what he will get elsewhere). Cundy looks like he may earn himself a 12/18 month deal with recent performances.

Of the last 3 players mentioned I think at least 2 of those will be sold and wouldn't be surprised if all 3 go. In the real world we should be looking at circa £7m for all three, particularly as they are coming into their last year.

Moving the middle 4 on will be the big challenge.

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3 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Exactly my way of thinking in what has to be a realistic scenario. NP hinted recently that Klose may be staying beyond the season ( I guess that depends on a number of things, contract we can offer compared to what he will get elsewhere). Cundy looks like he may earn himself a 12/18 month deal with recent performances.

Of the last 3 players mentioned I think at least 2 of those will be sold and wouldn't be surprised if all 3 go. In the real world we should be looking at circa £7m for all three, particularly as they are coming into their last year.

Moving the middle 4 on will be the big challenge.

If we did move on two of those last three for the type of money you suggest, that would sort out FFP…but then we have to replace them and use that money to plug other gaps too.  That is where we’d need to execute recruitment expertly.

I wish we could fast forward a few months.

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If we did move on two of those last three for the type of money you suggest, that would sort out FFP…but then we have to replace them and use that money to plug other gaps too.  That is where we’d need to execute recruitment expertly.

I wish we could fast forward a few months.

I’ve probably missed it Dave , but have they sorted out the CoVid ‘loss’ allowances yet ?

Is there any hope that , if not , they may give us some wiggle room ?

Apologies if you or MrP have already posted

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5 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

I’ve probably missed it Dave , but have they sorted out the CoVid ‘loss’ allowances yet ?

Is there any hope that , if not , they may give us some wiggle room ?

Apologies if you or MrP have already posted

The EFL have published (recently) that clubs can offset up to £5m in 19/20, £5m in 20/21 and £2.5m this season.

This goes against their previous rules which said you can offset Covid-linked revenue losses (paraphrased).

You could argue that last season we lost £12m of revenue, whereas the new rules say only £5m.

What we don’t know is whether the new rules are - you can claim these without providing evidence, but you can can claim more with appropriate evidence.  It seems some clubs are specifically calling out £millions in their accounts.  City just used words rather than categorically stating an amount.  That is not to say the FFP return hasn’t done so…we don’t get to see that.

If we could claim £12m rather than £5m, at 50% of that (because of the way FFP splits the 19/20 and 20/21 seasons) that would give us a £3.5m “benefit”…and would probably mean we start the summer on or around the £39m max.  That would help considerably.

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35 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

…and that’s the hard bit.  Until we either move a player or two on, or create some budget with re-contracting those players we paid fees for who have a year left, we really can’t move.  We’ve seen how difficult it is to move on players you don’t want when they are on wages that nobody else will pay.  Mutual termination weakens our position, for any posters thinking that is the way to get rid of them.

If we can arrive in with anything like a stronger, better balanced squad (on paper) it will have been a very successful summer.  We are being massively hampered by what has gone on previously.  The likelihood is that the summer feels more like inching towards what Pearson wants, rather than striding into next season.

We have to get through next season with Championship status intact as a bare minimum.  That sounds like setting the bar incredibly low, but until we see who moves and what budget it creates it’s really a massive unknown.  As it stands even bringing is a “George Tanner” is out of budget currently.

I guess we will start to build the when we know what is happening to those OOC this summer Baker:

  • Andy King
  • Robbie Cundy
  • Callum O’Dowda
  • Timm Klose
  • Nathan Baker

Then we are into the likes of the players with no future (alleged / speculation) or too costly to keep based on minutes:

  • Taylor Moore
  • Tyreeq Bakinson
  • Kasey Palmer
  • Nahki Wells

can we get a fee and all of their wages picked up?  Here’s hoping.  If someone like Palmer doesn’t want to leave, we are stuck with the best part of £2m tied up.

and then we are into those with a year left who cost us fees:

  • Tomas Kalas
  • Dan Bentley
  • Han-Noah Massengo

It really is gonna be a nervy summer.

Whats left might not be what Pearson wants, just that he can’t “trade” them either!  Sorry to depress OTIB on a sunny, Sunday .

 

I think Dasilva only has a year left too ?

You could probably add Vyner to the list of players with no future.

I guess they're not really part of what you're discussing but there's players like Morton, Janneh and Britton who are low earners on the very fringes of the first team but also need to be moved on.

Overall, more than half the squad have question marks over their future!

 

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Just now, Bristolcityyatton said:

I think Dasilva only has a year left too ?

yes 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻, I just didn’t list everyone.  In Jay’s case, the value isn’t there like the others, so I don’t see him commanding the kind of fee the others might.

You could probably add Vyner to the list of players with no future.

yep, didn’t list him because he was Academy, and his cost is wages only

I guess they're not really part of what you're discussing but there's players like Morton, Janneh and Britton who are low earners on the very fringes of the first team but also need to be moved on.

yep, I “immed and ammed” about Janneh.  We might get £100-200k for him if we moved him on.  Which would be worth it.

Overall, more than half the squad have question marks over their future!

yep, fun eh?

 

⬆️⬆️⬆️

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2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Alex Scott was assaulted against both Forest and QPR at 1-0 up in both games if I recall correctly. Literally taken out both times. Shocking refereeing on both occasions or do you think both decisions were correct?

Unfortunately, he'd already established a reputation for going down very easily under pressure. Benarous does the same. 

I fear we've got an unwelcome reputation amongst referees as a team that looks for contact and free kicks. 

Just a theory.  

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2 hours ago, italian dave said:

I’d rather hear what the ref had to say about the incident to be honest. He clearly had a view: he very deliberately ran around Martin afterwards and I assume he was letting him know why he hadn’t given it - which is fair enough. I’d love to know what he said though. It’s a pity refs aren’t allowed to explain. 

Perhaps someone could ask Chris Martin?

It sure as heck won't be Dave Barton though. 

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Nigel, the  usual Mr Grumpy,  wasn’t grumpy in the interview so it must have been a good performance. I think we should rate City’s performances on an NP Interview Grump scale. The lower the level of grumpiness the better the performance  

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9 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Unfortunately, he'd already established a reputation for going down very easily under pressure. Benarous does the same. 

I fear we've got an unwelcome reputation amongst referees as a team that looks for contact and free kicks. 

Just a theory.  

If we had VAR they would have to admit their error, as we have not been given multiple clear penalties. It is not reputation, just poor referring (in real time with no replays to use) . The quality of referring this season has been quite poor from my view (both ways, not just against us) . Hard to understand why it has got so poor. The number of clear offsides has also been notable (again both ways).  Not talking marginal decisions either, or those that need slow-motion with 3 camera angles, but some pretty basic stuff. The FA needs to look at what they are doing as the direction is not positive. 

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