Might Pearson walk?

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Of Saturday's starting XI, four were a big part of the 2020 side (Bentley, Dasilva, Wells, Weimann) and a fifth (Kalas) I'm pretty sure would have been there in place of Cundy if fit.  And then Massenngo, Vyner and Semenyo (all involved in 2020) were on the bench. So nearly half the side.

I guess you can flip this on it’s head and say who wasn’t in the side on Saturday:

(regardless of my opinions on each player here’s a few)

Hunt / Pereira

Baker / Benkovic

Brownhill (the single biggest loss imho - a true premier league player) / Smith (second half of the season)

Eliasson / Paterson

Diedhiou

….and that side finished 12th.

After that season, there’s been little / no squad investment, but until the summer when Pearson cleared £12m of cost, the cost of the squad remained.

Back then it was a big squad which allowed Lee to tinker.

I think the decline had begun.  Covid sped it up / exposed it.

It’s far from ideal.  I just hope we can manufacture an improvement to the squad over the summer window by whatever means.  I’m resigning myself to losing players I don’t want to leave…the young ones.  Keeping them takes balls because it might mean sacrificing the likes of Kalas or Bentley, unless you can tie them down for another few years.  The re-contracting of players is so important to cost control, in a deflated transfer market.  You really want players who have longevity, i.e. players who grow with you, that you re-contract (it’s financially efficient too), or sell for big fees…not ones you hold onto because no other bugger wants them, certainly not at their wage level, e.g. Palmer.  We most certainly can’t let Kalas and Bentley walk for free next summer.

We need to hold our nerve and see how the summer pans out.

 

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Nigel Pearson is a coach and should have been slotted into the same structure as previously so that he just does the coaching and the player recruitment and contract negotiation are dealt with by an experienced DoF.

I am no fan of Mark Ashton but, massive losses aside, I think it likely that five years of Ashton / Pearson instead of Ashton / LJ would have seen us into the Premiership through having a highly experienced coach instead of a rookie.

I don't know why we were given so much information about the desired structure / five pillars only to dump the majority of the work upon one man who is then reduced to having to bring in the players he already knows even if they're not the best out there.

Nigel may well walk but if he is and then simply replaced with another name manager without the necessary support them they will also underachieve and end up walking.

I remain baffled that the club went to all the effort of developing what was to my mind a good structure, DoF and coach, and a good strategy in the five pillars only to then go: "Nah", leave them all out for the bin men, and resort to the old "hit and hope" strategy which relies upon a manager being prepared to work himself into the ground.

IIRC Terry Cooper, or his wife, even used to wash the kit.

Is that the way that this multimillion pound club is really heading? As it looks that way.

Are you really thinking that MA was acting as Director of Football?

IMO, he was looking after number one with total disregard to SL, and the future of the Football Club. Continually bringing in players who were not wanted, overpaid and in many cases totally inadequate at top Championship level.

We've had some poor non football managerial staff in the past but this clown (MA) is top of the league for inadequacy and self indulgence.

[Eddie Hitler]

1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

Are you really thinking that MA was acting as Director of Football?

IMO, he was looking after number one with total disregard to SL, and the future of the Football Club. Continually bringing in players who were not wanted, overpaid and in many cases totally inadequate at top Championship level.

We've had some poor non football managerial staff in the past but this clown (MA) is top of the league for inadequacy and self indulgence.

 

I'm not a fan of MA and his spending (other people's) money like water is why we are currently hamstrung.

There are however parts of the role that he did fulfill well, being:

Bring in (some) high quality players 

Relieve the coach of the responsibility for recruitment and contract negotiation

Obtain top dollar on sales; something we have a very poor history of achieving.

 

Those positive attributes, combined with someone of Cotts' or Pearson's experience would have been sufficient IMHO to bring us promotion.

Absolutely he wasted loads of money on bang average players but what he did manage to do would have been enough IMHO.

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

I'm not a fan of MA and his spending (other people's) money like water is why we are currently hamstrung.

There are however parts of the role that he did fulfill well, being:

Bring in (some) high quality players 

Relieve the coach of the responsibility for recruitment and contract negotiation

Obtain top dollar on sales; something we have a very poor history of achieving.

 

Those positive attributes, combined with someone of Cotts' or Pearson's experience would have been sufficient IMHO to bring us promotion.

Absolutely he wasted loads of money on bang average players but what he did manage to do would have been enough IMHO.

Why would you want a non-football expert, who nevertheless sacked successive chief scouts and referred to "my player database" and "my recruitment team" in charge of recruitment (other than the financial element) though?

I keep coming back to the club's own statement that he had control of all day to day football activities (my emphasis) , a job he was not qualified for.

Gould made it clear he is not involved in football matters in contrast. Though we still don't plan to appoint a head of recruitment.

[Eddie Hitler]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

Why would you want a non-football expert, who nevertheless sacked successive chief scouts and referred to "my player database" and "my recruitment team" in charge of recruitment (other than the financial element) though?

I keep coming back to the club's own statement that he had control of all day to day football activities (my emphasis) , a job he was not qualified for.

Gould made it clear he is not involved in football matters in contrast. Though we still don't plan to appoint a head of recruitment.

 

I wouldn't.

I think people are mistaking my recognition that Mark Ashton wasn't a total cretin and had some positive qualities, which with enough money and a decent coach would have taken us up, with my being some kind of advocate of him.

I'm not.

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

I wouldn't.

I think people are mistaking my recognition that Mark Ashton wasn't a total cretin and had some positive qualities, which with enough money and a decent coach would have taken us up, with my being some kind of advocate of him.

I'm not.

Certainly, if he had acted solely as Chief Executive using the skills he actually had and we had had a functioning recruitment team headed by an expert it might have worked out ok.

It just baffles me that successive clubs have given him so much power.

[Eddie Hitler]

2 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Certainly, if he had acted solely as Chief Executive using the skills he actually had and we had had a functioning recruitment team headed by an expert it might have worked out ok.

It just baffles me that successive clubs have given him so much power.

 

It also does me.

His primary skill is clearly self promotion.

[Gert Mare]

22 hours ago, harrys said:

We have a far better squad than our league position and performances are showing, just maybe it’s a case that Pearson just can’t the best out of them?

We have some players on high wages that have performed better at other clubs, but they had the quality around them to be able to do so.

Unfortunately we have some good players, some inexperienced, some hampered by injury and others not good enough.

If everyone was fit then we might be doing better than we are, but I believe that we are where we should be considering all of the circumstances.

We certainly don’t have any strength in depth.

[Numero Uno]

9 hours ago, italian dave said:

There’s a fairly fine line between overhitting a pass by thirty yards and hoofing the ball forward hopefully - something we were doing routinely on Saturday. 

Not the pass I saw. It wasn’t a hoof, it was dreadful overhit pass, I’ve played and watched enough football to recognise he was looking to find a player.

[Numero Uno]

7 hours ago, italian dave said:

Funnily enough, the comment I made to my mate during the game on Saturday was along the lines of 'never mind a poor advert for Championship football, this would be a poor advert for Downs league football'!

My Son watched it on stream and said it would be a disgrace if that was Scunthorpe v Oldham. Having watched it live my view was slightly stronger!! We can’t all be wrong on that. There literally is no excuse for playing like that, shit storm inherited and lots of work to do, which I agree with or not. I thought an apology was in order it was that bad.

[TV Tom]

8 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Agreed.

The dream pairing would have been five years of Cotts plus a DoF; not Ashton though.

I don't have a solution now other than to do this; though FFP effectively precludes that for at least another year.

 

 

 

 

Edwin Collins, what a voice, this has cheered me up no end, thanks EH

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 11/04/2022 at 17:58, Mr Sno said:

He won't walk - his reputation had dipped and will only get worse if he quits us.

How had Pearson’s reputation “dipped” ?

[Mr Sno]

9 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

How had Pearson’s reputation “dipped” ?

Got Leicester to the Premier League, successful spells at Southampton and Hull. But since then he went to Derby which was a disaster for him, tried his luck in Belgium and got sacked, and so far struggling at BCFC. You also need to remember that if his reputation was still on the up there is no way he would've come to us, he would have better options, but the reality is he doesn't because his stock has fallen. 

 

[italian dave]

9 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

How had Pearson’s reputation “dipped” ?

Sacked by Leicester - for off field as well as on field reasons

Sacked after a suspension and internal investigation by Derby

Did OK but hardly set the world alight at OHLeuven

Sacked by Watford - I know doesn’t really count given it’s Watford! But still hardly a positive. 

There’s no doubt his overall managerial record is good, but I think it’s fair to describe it as having ‘dipped’ the past few years. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

6 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Sacked by Leicester - for off field as well as on field reasons

Sacked after a suspension and internal investigation by Derby

Did OK but hardly set the world alight at OHLeuven

Sacked by Watford - I know doesn’t really count given it’s Watford! But still hardly a positive. 

There’s no doubt his overall managerial record is good, but I think it’s fair to describe it as having ‘dipped’ the past few years. 

You’ve made this all sound much more sinister than it really was. The “off field reasons” you’ve mentioned with regard to him leaving Leicester were about the actions of his son ... there was no insinuation that Nigel had done anything wrong.

And the ‘suspension and internal investigation’ at Derby was simply because he had a row with the club’s owner (Mel Morris) when the owner started using drones to observe Nigel’s training sessions. I’d expect any manager worth his salt to object to being ‘observed’ in that way. 

So, despite the way you worded your summaries of his departures from Leicester and Derby, I don’t believe Nigel did anything wrong on both occasions ...

[italian dave]

9 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

You’ve made this all sound much more sinister than it really was. The “off field reasons” you’ve mentioned with regard to him leaving Leicester were about the actions of his son ... there was no insinuation that Nigel had done anything wrong.

And the ‘suspension and internal investigation’ at Derby was simply because he had a row with the club’s owner (Mel Morris) when the owner started using drones to observe Nigel’s training sessions. I’d expect any manager worth his salt to object to being ‘observed’ in that way. 

So, despite the way you worded your summaries of his departures from Leicester and Derby, I don’t believe Nigel did anything wrong on both occasions ...

That’s all fair, and it wasn’t my intention to make any of it sound sinister, just to try to keep it brief! But also that there was an ‘off field’ aspect to both as well as league position. 

No, I don’t think he necessarily did anything wrong (I don’t honestly know enough about either incident to go further) but - after a career that had been successful to the point where he generally chose to leave clubs to move on to better - getting sacked four times could, I’d suggest, reasonably be described as ‘dipped’. If there was evidence of wrongdoing as well then we’d be using the world ‘plummeted’.

As I’ve said in previous discussions about our managers, there seems to be this tendency to try to paint everything as black and white. Just as some people can see no good whatsoever in LJ, trying to suggest that NP has a career of unfettered success is equally wrong.

He’s had a great career. But you’d surely acknowledge that his career as a manager has been less successful the past 7 years than it was the previous 7? And if that’s the case, isn’t ‘dipped’ a fair summary? 

[supercidered]

13 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

You’ve made this all sound much more sinister than it really was. The “off field reasons” you’ve mentioned with regard to him leaving Leicester were about the actions of his son ... there was no insinuation that Nigel had done anything wrong.

And the ‘suspension and internal investigation’ at Derby was simply because he had a row with the club’s owner (Mel Morris) when the owner started using drones to observe Nigel’s training sessions. I’d expect any manager worth his salt to object to being ‘observed’ in that way. 

So, despite the way you worded your summaries of his departures from Leicester and Derby, I don’t believe Nigel did anything wrong on both occasions ...

Agree with this BS4.

I don't think NP's reputation has dipped. I think his reputation precedes him in that Owners / Chairman are wary of him. On the lines of, he could do a good job but do I want to employ someone that will challenge and push back and make things uncomfortable at times? 

The above scenario seems to have become a reality for SL & Co and they should've known what NP is and can be. With this in mind, they should now bite the bullet and support him with what he wants as long as what he wants is within the clubs means and timescales. 

A caveat to the 'timescales' this has to be sensible from both SL and NP.  

[Mr Sno]

21 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Agree with this BS4.

I don't think NP's reputation has dipped. I think his reputation precedes him in that Owners / Chairman are wary of him. On the lines of, he could do a good job but do I want to employ someone that will challenge and push back and make things uncomfortable at times? 

The above scenario seems to have become a reality for SL & Co and they should've known what NP is and can be. With this in mind, they should now bite the bullet and support him with what he wants as long as what he wants is within the clubs means and timescales. 

A caveat to the 'timescales' this has to be sensible from both SL and NP.  

His reputation has dipped. If it hadn't he wouldn't be with us, he has only ever managed at BIG clubs and now he is at a small fish in a big pond for the first time in his career at this level.

If a top job came up in the champ how many owners would be chasing Pearson, not many after Derby and BCFC.

 

[supercidered]

6 minutes ago, Mr Sno said:

His reputation has dipped. If it hadn't he wouldn't be with us, he has only ever managed at BIG clubs and now he is at a small fish in a big pond for the first time in his career at this level.

If a top job came up in the champ how many owners would be chasing Pearson, not many after Derby and BCFC.

 

I did try and offer a different view to dipped reputation in the post you have just responded to. 

[Waconda]

4 hours ago, Mr Sno said:

His reputation has dipped. If it hadn't he wouldn't be with us, he has only ever managed at BIG clubs and now he is at a small fish in a big pond for the first time in his career at this level.

If a top job came up in the champ how many owners would be chasing Pearson, not many after Derby and BCFC.

 

Of course his reputation has "dipped" possibly "plummeted".

How that is even up for debate is ludicrous.

He is managing at a bottom quarter Championship side and is statistically their worst manager in 20 years.

[Roadrunner]

Latest interview "Pre season is already arrange". Does not sound like he is going anywhere.

[TMWANG50]

10 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Latest interview "Pre season is already arrange". Does not sound like he is going anywhere.

That interview was typical Robins TV tripe, more scripted than Made In Chelsea :laugh:

He's hardly going to say what he really feels on the club channel..

[TV Tom]

16 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

How had Pearson’s reputation “dipped” ?

Umhh, tough one, but I would hazard a guess that he’s referring to his awful record over the last 15 months?

[Clutton Caveman]

On 09/04/2022 at 18:02, Loosey Boy said:

Sounded royally fed-up in his post-match interview just now…..

I hope he doesn’t but wouldn’t be surprised.

I think that he has learned that his methods don't work anymore and guess what, when you always blame your players they don't want to play for you.

[BUTOR]

 "The aim of the club are still very clear and that is that we want to be a Prem club. We’re a long way from it. We spoke about being a 3-year plan. Maybe I won’t see the realisation of that dream at the end of my tenure but that won't stop me working towards it." 
 

From today.

[cidercity1987]

3 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

 "The aim of the club are still very clear and that is that we want to be a Prem club. We’re a long way from it. We spoke about being a 3-year plan. Maybe I won’t see the realisation of that dream at the end of my tenure but that won't stop me working towards it." 
 

From today.

Good man Nige

[Merrick's Marvels]

18 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

 "The aim of the club are still very clear and that is that we want to be a Prem club. We’re a long way from it. We spoke about being a 3-year plan. Maybe I won’t see the realisation of that dream at the end of my tenure but that won't stop me working towards it." 
 

From today.

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

But does he mean "I intend to fulfill my 3 year contract but I'm not sure the club will have reached the Prem by then"?

Or "It's a 3 year plan but I accept I may not last that long"?

As always, you can read into it what you want - confirmation bias at It's finest.

Lots of "we" in there today, though. Good to see. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[JoeAman08]

I feel like he is a bit a defeated. The size of the job wearing on him and the slow realisation that he can’t give the club what it needs. A lot of talk of if I am here. What he said in post match about maybe he feels like the season is over(or wants it to be already). Does not feel like a man that can grind a 46 game championship season anymore. Especially in a situation where you do not have means to fix the squad. 
 

Just how it feels to me. Think if he did feel that way, it would have some merit. I don’t know his track record of job but this could be one of the toughest he has taken on. Year after year we have been told we want to be a premier league club. We are told how we are a sleeping giant. So there is an expectation here of success that is probably unfair for anyone and then you throw in a 50m or more loss over 2 seasons and not being able to really spend anything. Could wear on anyone

[Dolman Block B]

Personal view is he must stay.

I cant think of anyone out there who would want the job knowing no money to spend and maybe a couple of our best leaving.

NP has resingned himself to that.

[Waconda]

2 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

 "The aim of the club are still very clear and that is that we want to be a Prem club. We’re a long way from it. We spoke about being a 3-year plan. Maybe I won’t see the realisation of that dream at the end of my tenure but that won't stop me working towards it." 
 

From today.

Good to hear him say things like this - more of it please.