Our worst manager in the last 20 years …

[Son of Fred]

8 hours ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

Why do the Lansdown’s just accept this 

Christ this is hard work,,,please try to pay attention.

They're the one's wot done it.

[Finley_Smith10]

3 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Christ this is hard work,,,please try to pay attention.

They're the one's wot done it.

That’s my point, they’ve just allowed the whole club to turn stale over the past couple seasons, yet it seems nothings going to change anytime soon

[Andy082005]

2 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

That’s my point, they’ve just allowed the whole club to turn stale over the past couple seasons, yet it seems nothings going to change anytime soon

Because Steve Lansdown has proved over the last 20 years that he doesn’t have the know how or ability to take the club to the next level 

And when I say level - I mean a top 6 club in this league 

 

[Andy082005]

7 hours ago, billywedlock said:

LJ wins this hands down . Left the club with 38m debts and a squad that no one wants . Pearson is one of the best we have ever had . Created 40/50 m talent from the academy in 12 months . Extraordinary performance when dealing with the squad inherited . 

Pearson didn’t create any of these players . He played them because he had no choice 

[Andy082005]

5 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

Is that the same Dean Holden that was sacked after 6 months in the job....?

Yeah. Because he overstayed his welcome by 18 months to 2 years in total. Should have gone along with Lee Johnson - and Lee Johnson should have gone 18 months before he did 

[Will Rollason]

Whenever I see" happy clappers" I reach for my revolver

Stats are only as useful as the accuracy and context of the data.

GJ, Cotts, etc all managed mostly at league one where we would be perceived as bigger club with better resources and their results should have reflected this which is why Mcinnes for instance was so disappointing. 

It took Cotts, my personal favourite,  to actually walk that walk. 

There's only Pearson and LJ who have meaningful stats at this level and LJ wins that one but we all know the context is different.

Don't get me wrong,  it's been poor and I'm not a massive fan of big Nige, but let's be realistic about our actual situation....

 

[Robbored]

Assessing managers win ratio does not reflect the standard of whatever division they were in. The current Championship is about the best standard of football that I’ve seen in last 20 years. The game has evolved tremendously and the quality we’re seeing now is pretty damn good.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Robbored

[Atticus]

9 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Jon said we should be doing better.

And Pearson threw a wobbly over it.

He's been shocking as manager overall. 

[Superjack]

7 hours ago, Hello Dave said:

Any other manager would’ve been sacked by now!!

Lee Johnson wasn't.

[Simon79]

8 hours ago, billywedlock said:

LJ wins this hands down . Left the club with 38m debts and a squad that no one wants . Pearson is one of the best we have ever had . Created 40/50 m talent from the academy in 12 months . Extraordinary performance when dealing with the squad inherited . 

How exactly has he created this 40/50 m of talent? He has openly said he doesn’t really ‘coach’, he has openly said at some points he has been forced to play them, when probably wouldn’t of wanted to, he didn’t sign any of them & has also said he doesn’t see the point loaning out players ( something that helped develop Semenyo to the point where Chelsea were after him ). Extraordinary performance is somewhat of a stretch. His signings have been poor & are currently seemingly getting away with it through ‘connection’ & yet I find myself happy to give him some more time. Funny old game. COYR 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

Tremendous effort to pick three stats that are essentially the same thing - generally a reasonably close correlation between wins, losses and points - and then position them as if they highlight multiple ways to indict NP. Maybe we could add points taken by opponents against us to the mix as one more of ‘the’ stats? 

[redapple]

A goalkeeper with concentration, a defence with some aggression, a midfield with some speed and stamina, forwards who move in the box ( backwards as well as stationary) and wing(ers)backs who can pull a ball back and not just on the big centre backs forehead are all required either by replacing or coaching the current mob. Some collective heart also needed. 

[Galley is our king]

10 hours ago, Citychuds said:

I have a view on our current manager but I like good old fashioned stats so here are some about our managers which make some interesting reading. I’ve excluded temporary managers Coppell counts as temporary by the way. Millens temp stats only make him look better!

win rate ranked

Wilson 1, Cotterill 2, Holden 3, Gary J 4, Lee J 5, Tinnion 6, Millen 7, mcinnes 8, O’driscoll 9, Pearson 10 

loss rate ranked

Cotterill 1, Tinnion 2, Wilson 3, Gary J 4, Lee J 5, Holden 6, O’driscoll 7, Millen 8, Mcinnes 9, Pearson 10 

Points per game

Cotterill 1, Wilson 2, Gary J 3, Tinnion 4, Holden 5, Lee J 6, Millen 7, O’driscoll 8, Mcinnes 9, Pearson 10

Only one manager has a win rate at less than 25%, two managers have a loss rate over 50% and one manager has averaged less than a point a game!!

Admittedly some of these managers managed in league one however can we claim this is the worst squad we’ve had in comparison to the teams we play?

Interested in peoples thoughts and whether Mr Pearson wouldn’t be quite so popular if hadn’t had a successful period at one of his many clubs.

There are lies, damn lies and statistics!

A well known saying which means you can get anything to mean anything you want depending on what outcome your agenda warrants.

Do you work for Putin?

[eardun]

1 hour ago, Will Rollason said:

Whenever I see" happy clappers" I reach for my revolver

Stats are only as useful as the accuracy and context of the data.

GJ, Cotts, etc all managed mostly at league one where we would be perceived as bigger club with better resources and their results should have reflected this which is why Mcinnes for instance was so disappointing. 

It took Cotts, my personal favourite,  to actually walk that walk. 

There's only Pearson and LJ who have meaningful stats at this level and LJ wins that one but we all know the context is different.

Don't get me wrong,  it's been poor and I'm not a massive fan of big Nige, but let's be realistic about our actual situation....

 

To be fair to GJ, he was with us in the championship longer than league one, including getting us to a play off final of course. 

[MarcusX]

11 hours ago, Citychuds said:

I have a view on our current manager but I like good old fashioned stats so here are some about our managers which make some interesting reading. I’ve excluded temporary managers Coppell counts as temporary by the way. Millens temp stats only make him look better!

win rate ranked

Wilson 1, Cotterill 2, Holden 3, Gary J 4, Lee J 5, Tinnion 6, Millen 7, mcinnes 8, O’driscoll 9, Pearson 10 

loss rate ranked

Cotterill 1, Tinnion 2, Wilson 3, Gary J 4, Lee J 5, Holden 6, O’driscoll 7, Millen 8, Mcinnes 9, Pearson 10 

Points per game

Cotterill 1, Wilson 2, Gary J 3, Tinnion 4, Holden 5, Lee J 6, Millen 7, O’driscoll 8, Mcinnes 9, Pearson 10

Only one manager has a win rate at less than 25%, two managers have a loss rate over 50% and one manager has averaged less than a point a game!!

Admittedly some of these managers managed in league one however can we claim this is the worst squad we’ve had in comparison to the teams we play?

Interested in peoples thoughts and whether Mr Pearson wouldn’t be quite so popular if hadn’t had a successful period at one of his many clubs.

We’ve been relegated twice from this level in that time, so how can this be THE worst?

[MarcusX]

10 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

Hmmm not sure about that

Why? We’re safe?

[AshtonGreat]

5 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Why? We’re safe?

We are but considering where we've finished the last few seasons, it isn't much of an achievement 

[2015]

9 hours ago, billywedlock said:

LJ wins this hands down . Left the club with 38m debts and a squad that no one wants . Pearson is one of the best we have ever had . Created 40/50 m talent from the academy in 12 months . Extraordinary performance when dealing with the squad inherited . 

Yep, the money had already been spent by previous (Mark Ashton and Lee Johnson). We sold and didn't replace at all well. Lee like his Dad left this club in a bad state when they left.

Granted it's been a woeful season and I'm finding it hard to defend Pearson really, but he really has been given **** all.

Ultimately I think Pearson will be sacked from City or will walk eventually and it will please a lot of fans, but lets be clear here this squad is pretty poor and it has been for a few years now, I think most Managers would struggle to get the most out of them. If Pearson leaves we have the same problem - No money and an overrated squad. 

The club needs new ownership to really progress.

[cityfan1958]

I have been following city since 1970. In just about every time we have had one of these finical resets it has involved a relegation. Given that Pearson has kept us up whilst dealing with all most certainly the second worst finical situation, I would say he is doing a reasonable job. 
And for those saying we need a relegation for a complete rebuild, have you actually seen how hard it is to get out of division 3 these days.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Will Rollason said:

Whenever I see" happy clappers" I reach for my revolver

Stats are only as useful as the accuracy and context of the data.

GJ, Cotts, etc all managed mostly at league one where we would be perceived as bigger club with better resources and their results should have reflected this which is why Mcinnes for instance was so disappointing. 

It took Cotts, my personal favourite,  to actually walk that walk. 

There's only Pearson and LJ who have meaningful stats at this level and LJ wins that one but we all know the context is different.

Don't get me wrong,  it's been poor and I'm not a massive fan of big Nige, but let's be realistic about our actual situation....

 

I agree with 99% of that, but it isn’t actually true re GJ, because far more of his time with us was at Championship level (mainly because he got us promoted in his first full season), so his 40% win ratio was largely at that level.

[JBFC II]

3 hours ago, harrys said:

If we stick with him then we are relegation certainties next season, he could barely be any worse, we can’t afford NOT to sack him

I’m not sure. 
 

Admittedly I’ve not been able to watch much of us this season, but I do get the feeling that we certainly wouldn’t be better off with another manager right now, especially when we consider the history the lansdowns have at appointing managers. 
 

I think giving him the summer and then until at least November, is the right thing to do. He’s been poor thus far, but he has enough contacts in the game and enough pedigree, to strengthen us for next year imo

[Will Rollason]

8 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I agree with 99% of that, but it isn’t actually true re GJ, because far more of his time with us was at Championship level (mainly because he got us promoted in his first full season), so his 40% win ratio was largely at that level.

Thanks Graham,  I stand corrected for making sweeping generalisations 

[Will Rollason]

35 minutes ago, eardun said:

To be fair to GJ, he was with us in the championship longer than league one, including getting us to a play off final of course. 

Yep, quite right, Graham has pointed that out to me. Puts GJ's time into perspective. That was the time I watched city the most as well,  season ticket etc, so I should know better. 

[Citychuds]

Well I knew there would be haters but that was interesting! Thank for the idiot comment, my wife agrees! Yes stats are closely correlated, yes they need context. I fail to understand why a manager with a less than 25% win rate is supported by so many. I could understand if we saw improvement but yesterday was Blackpool all over again. LJ was hounded out of the club, Holden was laughed at, club legends like Tinnion were got rid of with majority fan agreement. And yet Mr Pearson is supported and why?

why does nobody slag off his recruitment which seems to be based on well they did well in the one managerial position I did well at so they will be good here. 

we have no money for new players now and we won’t have in the summer. So surely we need a manager who can get better out of what we have until the finances are sorted. Or are we suggesting that the players all need to go and we fill our team with more Danny Simpsons, Andy Kings and Chris Brunt’s, along with a load of league one / two players? I’d honestly take Tinnion right now over this clown. 

Pearson’s comment about the club getting rid of him was clever and people have fallen for it

[GrahamC]

4 minutes ago, Will Rollason said:

Thanks Graham,  I stand corrected for making sweeping generalisations 

No worries.

[Gol]

1 hour ago, Simon79 said:

How exactly has he created this 40/50 m of talent? He has openly said he doesn’t really ‘coach’, he has openly said at some points he has been forced to play them, when probably wouldn’t of wanted to, he didn’t sign any of them & has also said he doesn’t see the point loaning out players ( something that helped develop Semenyo to the point where Chelsea were after him ). Extraordinary performance is somewhat of a stretch. His signings have been poor & are currently seemingly getting away with it through ‘connection’ & yet I find myself happy to give him some more time. Funny old game. COYR 

Because when he joined Alex Scott was someone few outside the accademy knew about. Semenyo was inand out of the team and quite a few on here had written him off and Massengo we were actively trying to swap for Pedersen at Birmingham in January 21. Whether you like him or not it is undeniable that there value has risen since Pearson has come in and for that he deserves credit. 
 

He did not say he didn't see the point of loans he said the youngsters here have the shirts and he thinks they would be better off staying here https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/big-chance-bristol-citys-young-5635963.amp

With regards to signings  I don’t get this blanket statement his signings have been poor; granted they are a mixed bag. I have been pleased withAtkinson overall bar his slump midseason when he had his illness, James started well but since returning from injury has been poor. I have liked the look of Tanner but I am concerned with the injuries (which he never had prior to signing). Weimann is having his best season ever under Pearson and was a good resigning. Baker looked good prior to his concussions and I doubt we’d have the problems at the back, we have had he been fit. And Klose has been an ok short term signing. Its only king and Simpson which have been poor IMO 

[Fuber]

11 hours ago, Citychuds said:

Holden would have got more out of this squad than Pearson. LJ would have got more out of this squad than Pearson. Cotterill would have got more out of this squad than Pearson. Maybe only a couple of positions but every position counts when we are the team that would be scrambling for points to stay up had Reading and Derby not had points deductions. 

LJ would have lost this squad by November.

Everything that's come out of former players has pointed at such. I.e. Fielding, Wilbs, among others.

Holden had gone on a run that barring a draw almost as bad as LJs worst run before he was sacked. People for the majority had huge sympathy for Holden.

People have short memories.

Our squad balance is completely ruined and still has not (and cannot) be addressed from LJ/MA due to FFP, and no recruitment setup when he arrived with MA basically having the door kiss him on his ass on his way out.

The most interesting apart of this summer for me will be the coaching staff. I reckon there will be a huge overhaul which is desperately needed.

Could someone have done better than NP with this squad of players - undoubtedly, he isn't the most tactically savvy of managers.

Would I trust anyone else to undertake the immense reform this club needs...? The cultural enormity of this job is gigantic.

Added to which if Nige leaves. Who would people want to replace him?

For me, the problem is at the top. All the money doesn't make a bit of difference if there's a lack of strategy (see Everton). Added to which, it's more than slightly ironic that in the last 15 years (mid GJ), the only good appointment was Keith Dawe's.

[Bristol Oil Services]

3 hours ago, GTFABM said:

I agree that some of the comparisons are with managers who were in a different league but it still doesn’t look good. The old trusty ‘he has a poor squad’ only stacks up when you play a team with a better one…. Peterborough do not have a better squad than us, so that excuse is taken away. We were still pathetic so it’s not all down to the squad. What a day to put in a performance like that when season ticket sales just up for renewal. 

It doesn't look good, no, but we are 17 points above Posh, and they're going down, and we're staying up. So, over the course of a season rather than 90 minutes, Nige has delivered! as far as us and Posh are concerned. 

[Sheltons Army]

9 minutes ago, Fuber said:

LJ would have lost this squad by November.

Everything that's come out of former players has pointed at such. I.e. Fielding, Wilbs, among others.

Holden had gone on a run that barring a draw almost as bad as LJs worst run before he was sacked. People for the majority had huge sympathy for Holden.

People have short memories.

Our squad balance is completely ruined and still has not (and cannot) be addressed from LJ/MA due to FFP, and no recruitment setup when he arrived with MA basically having the door kiss him on his ass on his way out.

The most interesting apart of this summer for me will be the coaching staff. I reckon there will be a huge overhaul which is desperately needed.

Could someone have done better than NP with this squad of players - undoubtedly, he isn't the most tactically savvy of managers.

Would I trust anyone else to undertake the immense reform this club needs...? The cultural enormity of this job is gigantic.

Added to which if Nige leaves. Who would people want to replace him?

For me, the problem is at the top. All the money doesn't make a bit of difference if there's a lack of strategy (see Everton). Added to which, it's more than slightly ironic that in the last 15 years (mid GJ), the only good appointment was Keith Dawe's.

Excellent post 

[Bristol Rob]

39 minutes ago, 2015 said:

 

The club needs new ownership to really progress.

I'm not sure that a change in ownership is a progression changer.

Part of the reason we are in such financial trouble is because SL is accepting of the 'advice' he has received over the years from the employed decision makers. I'm thinking Ashton, Price, Harmon etc...

I think Gould who doesn't seem to want to play football-manager is likely to be someone who can help steady the ship and appears to be a safe pair of hands, unlike the reckless approach taken by Ashton, so that bodes well, even if there might be a board-level gap on the sporting side. But with JL being the eyes and ears of SL and other than qualified by experience, doesn't appear on the face of it to bring anything to the party in terms of previous exec level activity, you wonder how much value he adds and if SL is too accepting of juniors views rather than doing his own critical thinking.