Our worst manager in the last 20 years …

[johnbytheriver]

No football fan whatever  the level is satisfied with their teams performance, man utd fans and ex players slating the team  on tv radio social media is one example. We would give our right arm to be in their position.The gas would love to be in our position! All is not lost yet ,we are in the championship ffs.I am sure NP has something up his sleeve (apart from his arm) pre-season will tell us. NP inherited a shit show, i think he will come good in the end.

Edited April 10, 2022 by johnbytheriver
used same pharse twice

[bcfcredandwhite]

It’s not been great that’s for sure - and those OP stats are mildly interesting - but they don’t account for which league we were in, length of tenure, squad inherited, COVID pandemic, money available  - all factors that will affect any managers’ ability to build a strong side. 
Personally I’ve been disappointed with Pearson so far, but I don’t want him to walk or be sacked just yet. I still cling to the hope that he will be able to bring the Leicester success to us one day and I honestly can’t think of anyone else I’d rather replace him with right now.   
I can’t see success coming next season though - we are hobbled by FFP. We need him to get through next season and then SL can give him some money. Will he stay? Who knows. 

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by bcfcredandwhite
Change words

[Bristol Rob]

12 hours ago, Citychuds said:

I have a view on our current manager but I like good old fashioned stats so here are some about our managers which make some interesting reading. I’ve excluded temporary managers Coppell counts as temporary by the way. Millens temp stats only make him look better!

win rate ranked

Wilson 1, Cotterill 2, Holden 3, Gary J 4, Lee J 5, Tinnion 6, Millen 7, mcinnes 8, O’driscoll 9, Pearson 10 

loss rate ranked

Cotterill 1, Tinnion 2, Wilson 3, Gary J 4, Lee J 5, Holden 6, O’driscoll 7, Millen 8, Mcinnes 9, Pearson 10 

Points per game

Cotterill 1, Wilson 2, Gary J 3, Tinnion 4, Holden 5, Lee J 6, Millen 7, O’driscoll 8, Mcinnes 9, Pearson 10

Only one manager has a win rate at less than 25%, two managers have a loss rate over 50% and one manager has averaged less than a point a game!!

Admittedly some of these managers managed in league one however can we claim this is the worst squad we’ve had in comparison to the teams we play?

Interested in peoples thoughts and whether Mr Pearson wouldn’t be quite so popular if hadn’t had a successful period at one of his many clubs.

Seem to have overlooked the number of games managed.

Could argue that LJ is in top spot as at the highest level over the period of time you selected, we finished in a higher league position on the completion of each full season completed.

Millions of different ways to cut the stats, none of them that useful.

All we probably all want the same thing, entertaining football, winning more than we lose and draws when a win isn't possible, throw in the odd cup run that sees us visiting the top 6 clubs and a finishing position ideally in the top 6, but top 10 as a minimum.

Which is exactly the same as every other club.

[italian dave]

Looking at those stats Holden surprisingly doesn’t seem quite so bad in retrospect! 

I wonder where he (and we as a club) would have gone without the Weimann injury.

Certainly without Weimann this season we’d be staring L1 in the face right now. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by italian dave

[Galley is our king]

9 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Looking at those stats Holden surprisingly doesn’t seem quite so bad in retrospect! 

I wonder where he (and we as a club) would have gone without the Weimann injury.

Certainly without Weimann this season we’d be staring L1 in the face right now. 

I understand your point Dave but the same can be said for all teams.

Would Fulham and Bournemouth be where they are without Mitrivic or Solanke? 

Note to self- check spelling before posting

[italian dave]

3 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

I understand your point Dave but the same can be said for all teams.

Would Fulham and Bournemouth be where they are without Mitrivic or Solanke? 

Note to self- check spelling before posting

Oh I agree….all ifs and buts and good luck/unlucky. It’s a game of fine margins, as someone used to say! 

[Citychuds]

36 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

It’s not been great that’s for sure - and those OP stats are mildly interesting - but they don’t account for which league we were in, length of tenure, squad inherited, COVID pandemic, money available  - all factors that will affect any managers’ ability to build a strong side. 
Personally I’ve been disappointed with Pearson so far, but I don’t want him to walk or be sacked just yet. I still cling to the hope that he will be able to bring the Leicester success to us one day and I honestly can’t think of anyone else I’d rather replace him with right now.   
I can’t see success coming next season though - we are hobbled by FFP. We need him to get through next season and then SL can give him some money. Will he stay? Who knows. 

 

I think everyone does (me included) but are we forgetting his pretty mediocre performances at other clubs. I’m a pretty tolerant fan, I don’t believe in changing managers regularly, but yesterdays interview sealed it with Pearson for me. It stank of someone who has lost the squad (something too commonly used as an excuse) who was clinging on to a job. Kalas is a good player who hasn’t looked happy since NP started, Bentley has obviously had his issues with NP and only find himself back due to injury and performance of others, Williams is capable but looks frustrated, James (who is NP’s man) seems to be going downhill. Yesterdays performance just stank of there being 11 players but no team! 

Lets not forget Nigel Pearson is paid a lot of money to manage this club, he won’t care in 2 years time if the club gets relegated or if we go bust. He has one aim, to keep a job. Forget talking about heart, those days have gone. Footballers are paid employees who will perform to keep contracts or for a boss who is decent to them. 

I detest Colin Warnock but even I have to admit he is tactically savvy and knows how to get 11 players playing as a team. Does Pearson? 

 

[maxjak]

1 hour ago, Fuber said:

LJ would have lost this squad by November.

Everything that's come out of former players has pointed at such. I.e. Fielding, Wilbs, among others.

Holden had gone on a run that barring a draw almost as bad as LJs worst run before he was sacked. People for the majority had huge sympathy for Holden.

People have short memories.

Our squad balance is completely ruined and still has not (and cannot) be addressed from LJ/MA due to FFP, and no recruitment setup when he arrived with MA basically having the door kiss him on his ass on his way out.

The most interesting apart of this summer for me will be the coaching staff. I reckon there will be a huge overhaul which is desperately needed.

Could someone have done better than NP with this squad of players - undoubtedly, he isn't the most tactically savvy of managers.

Would I trust anyone else to undertake the immense reform this club needs...? The cultural enormity of this job is gigantic.

Added to which if Nige leaves. Who would people want to replace him?

For me, the problem is at the top. All the money doesn't make a bit of difference if there's a lack of strategy (see Everton). Added to which, it's more than slightly ironic that in the last 15 years (mid GJ), the only good appointment was Keith Dawe's.

Yep.........your right, we are the Everton of the Championship, Ha!   As Pearson doesn't coach, he needs to bring in two new coaches, and stir up the current staleness, an older head, and a young enthusiatic, forward thinking one, possibly from Europe? If of course, he stays?   Elsewhere on another incisive post, someone suggested that Pearson should maybe, occasionally look in the mirror.     Instead of blaming everyone else for our demise, he should take some of the responsibility for our current plight?  He is paid to manage, so he should manage,   he is very fond of making excuses and throwing certain people under bus'es' .

He has had sufficient time, even with all the constraints, to have introduced a style of play and tactics, and to give our side some identity, but after nearly 18 months in the job, yesterdays performance illustrates just how far we have NOT progressed under his management.  But he continues to blame everything/everyone, except himself?  I am torn as to whether he should stay or go ?  ........but he most definitely needs to up his game, and  motivate and inspire, instead of constantly playing the blame game.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Fuber said:

LJ would have lost this squad by November.

Thank you.

…and he’d have recruited a new one to replace it!!

How many times did we hear LJ say similar to Pearson, but using different words.  Luckily he had about 3 squads worth of “trusted ones” he could flip between when one set had met him down.

In fairness to Nige he has accepted some blame too.

Short memories indeed.  I did like some of the things LJ did, and if Ashton was really pulling the strings recruitment-wise, more fool LJ.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

I can’t see success coming next season though - we are hobbled by FFP. We need him to get through next season and then SL can give him some money. Will he stay? Who knows. 

Yep, and those manacles get loosened 23/24, as long as we perform financially next season.

You either accept that and show patience, or you don’t.  Simple as that.

A life buoy might get thrown in Webster or Kelly (I don’t Brownhill has enough value uplift to clear FFP), otherwise how much of £10m Semenyo is left over to rebuild…not enough is my view.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 hour ago, Fuber said:

 

Added to which if Nige leaves. Who would people want to replace him?

 

Here we go again.

Who "people want"

We just don't get the choice on this. Is it a rhetorical  question when people ask this? Why is that when people question a Manager they are expected to state their replacement yet when they criticise a player they are not expected to name a suitable replacement from another club who is affordable available , better and would come here?

Please also remember that many on these particular pages don't actually go to games but formulate opinions based on 'watching' the radio or MDT. Even the TV is suspect for seeing the whole game as much movement is off screen and lost to the viewer.

The likelyhood of NP leaving is growing each game and whoever people would want to replace him is irrelevant because we don't make the decisions . We get what we're given because BCFC is an autocracy but we can decide whether we support any decision with hard cash because that's our freedom of choice.

 

[IAmNick]

I do wonder why people point to Pearson's recent record - because that's the standard for a Championship manager. If he'd done it consistently, or even recently chances are he either wouldn't be managing in this league or certainly not at Bristol City. I think he's probably as "successful" as we could realistically aim for in our position.

I do think in our position we need a manager like him though - experience to navigate difficult waters. Holden did an OK job considering, but he was continuity in my mind. He wasn't looking at the real issues we have (and people mostly agree we have) as a club and finding solutions, so even by doing an OK job initially he was really gradually adding to the problem in my opinion... delaying the inevitable, which would then be worse as a result when it eventually came.

What I find interesting is to look at our last bunch of managers - Johnson Sr, Coppell, Millen, McInnes, O'Driscoll, Cotterill, Johnson, Holden, and now Pearson, and try and find a single thread between them. Playing style, management style, experience... and the biggest for me which I'm going to call "management/coaching appetite". That is, where are they on the management / coaching scale, how much do they want to be involved in recruitment, or on the training pitch, or at Lee's infamous tactics boards, and so on. How can you possibly build a stable and successful club structure when from one manager to the next you have such wildly different styles and expectations on what will be around them, and what their job / responsibilities will be.

For that reason I don't think the individual management choices have necessarily been bad in isolation, although I'm probably in the minority there. I actually think a lot of them were decent managers and could have worked - I think if McInnes for example had come into a stable structure, preceded by 3 managers with a similar philosophy there's a decent chance he'd have worked out. He's a decent manager. That's also why I think the "big personality" ones (Johnson Sr and Cotterill) worked out, because they're going to just rip stuff up and do it their way whatever they come into for the most part so the structure around them has less relevance. 

So I guess what I'm really hoping is that the club decides what type of manager they want here, not which individual manager. They then put the structure in place to support them, with the experienced Pearson's help to do so and navigate this awkward covid / FFP period. Whether Pearson himself is the man to then take us the next step and really establish us as a top 8 side I don't know, but what is important regardless is that they hire the next manager to fit that mold they've set the structure up for, and even if that individual doesn't work they have courage in their convictions and stick with it. Whether Lansdown is the person to put the above in place, well, I'm getting increasingly doubtful.

What I do think is really concerning though is that like for players, how many managers will be looking at us thinking that's where they want to go to take the next step in their career? We can start to point to our player pathway now... well what about our manager pathway? Would you want to risk one of the most important appointments of your managerial career at Bristol City, looking at the fate of the bunch before you? Not sure I would!

Edited April 10, 2022 by IAmNick

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

6 hours ago, Waconda said:

Facts are like Kryptonite to the sycophantic happy clappers.

They prefer some sort of misleading multi coloured spread sheet with certain stats missing.

These stats are meaningless without context.  And your grasp of mathematics and the statistically significant are somewhat flawed.

[Waconda]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Thank you.

…and he’d have recruited a new one to replace it!!

How many times did we hear LJ say similar to Pearson, but using different words.  Luckily he had about 3 squads worth of “trusted ones” he could flip between when one set had met him down.

In fairness to Nige he has accepted some blame too.

Short memories indeed.  I did like some of the things LJ did, and if Ashton was really pulling the strings recruitment-wise, more fool LJ.

In fairness to Nige he has accepted some blame too. - Must have missed that bit of honesty.

Was it after the Sam Bell debacle ?

 

1 minute ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

These stats are meaningless without context.  And your grasp of mathematics and the statistically significant are somewhat flawed.

My point exactly.

[GTFABM]

3 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

It doesn't look good, no, but we are 17 points above Posh, and they're going down, and we're staying up. So, over the course of a season rather than 90 minutes, Nige has delivered! as far as us and Posh are concerned. 

You have just set the bar about as low as you possibly could just to force a way in to praise Pearson…. Good work.

[Sir Geoff]

So we bring in a new manager, as many on here hope for. He wipes the slate clean with the squad and we start next season with Palmer, Bakinson, Vyner, Taylor Moore in the starting 11. How long before new manager realises, actually they are cr*p haven' t got the desire of just too thick to follow tactical instructions. What then. Send them out in loan next December and bring in other cheap options to keep us afloat because by then we will probably be adrift at the foot of the table. 

NP isn't perfect but imo we need to keep our nerve and see how the pre season unfolds. There have been positive s this season and enough to build on for a better season next. It still won't be great but with our situation as it is all we can hope for are small signs of progression until the anchor weighing us down ( big wages) is removed we have zero wriggle room.

[Sleepy1968]

3 hours ago, 2015 said:

If Pearson leaves we have the same problem - No money and an overrated squad.

I'm certainly not overrating them!

[2015]

4 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I'm certainly not overrating them!

The majority of the fans don't but the club certainly do. Listening to Jon in January suggests within the club they rate the squad higher than their current position.

[bcfcredandwhite]

2 hours ago, Citychuds said:

I think everyone does (me included) but are we forgetting his pretty mediocre performances at other clubs. I’m a pretty tolerant fan, I don’t believe in changing managers regularly, but yesterdays interview sealed it with Pearson for me. It stank of someone who has lost the squad (something too commonly used as an excuse) who was clinging on to a job. Kalas is a good player who hasn’t looked happy since NP started, Bentley has obviously had his issues with NP and only find himself back due to injury and performance of others, Williams is capable but looks frustrated, James (who is NP’s man) seems to be going downhill. Yesterdays performance just stank of there being 11 players but no team! 

Lets not forget Nigel Pearson is paid a lot of money to manage this club, he won’t care in 2 years time if the club gets relegated or if we go bust. He has one aim, to keep a job. Forget talking about heart, those days have gone. Footballers are paid employees who will perform to keep contracts or for a boss who is decent to them. 

I detest Colin Warnock but even I have to admit he is tactically savvy and knows how to get 11 players playing as a team. Does Pearson? 

 

I agree with most of this. We can’t go on excusing his poor performances and results and blaming MA and LJ forever. At some point NP has to earn our support, rather than get it for free because he’s not a Johnson or Ashton. 
I was also extremely surprised and disappointed with the Simpson debacle. 
However, like you said - I also don’t like changing the manager every 5 minutes. I’m prepared to give him more time - for now, but I hold his feet firmly to the fire. 
Re: Warnock I actually thought he might have been able to do a job for us a few years back, but he’s lost a lot of his ‘fire’ now and I think he’s past it. He’s 73 after all and should be taking it easy. Cardiff promotion will prove to have been his last throw of the dice methinks. 

[red ponty]

15 hours ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

Just shows how terrible it’s been this season. Why do the Lansdown’s just accept this 

I think the Lansdown except it because most of you who go home every game except it as well,  so as long as you’re not causing a problem at Ashton gate and venting your frustrations it will continue. 

[hollydog]

12 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Yep you are drunk and living in cloud la la land. No sense of reality, zero understanding of the disaster-we are in, and a pathetic superficial understanding of football. Get another cider. 

Thanks Billy. Do you really believe that if we sold the whole squad it would recoup £40m in the current transfer market? If so rather think you’re in LaLa Land! And in what way has Pearson created this value? Our most marketable players - Massengo, Scott and Semenyo were already here and he’s not a hands  on coach (but his own admission).

BTW I really do understand the disaster we are stuck in. I saw it yesterday and have been watching for 50 years so have plenty of perspective (in addition to my “superficial understanding of football”)

[shelts]

I really enjoyed Danny Wilsons teams for the way we played total football. The experience was a joyous one unlike what we’ve experienced since the latter end of LJ 

[Beni71]

It’s a tricky one re NP as we’re not privy to what he’s been asked to do, but would imagine something like this.

20/21 season - keep us up. 

21/22 season - keep us up and push for mid table. Not inspiring but I think most fans accepted a lower to mid table finish

22/23 - top 10 finish? At this stage this feels very ambitious given our financial position and what needs to change on the pitch. 4 players required to make us more competitive and consistent won’t be easy given we are shopping in Poundland

Football fans aren’t a patient bunch and expect season ticket sales to be down next season, especially after yesterday’s performance. So an indifferent start and the Lansdowns will get twitchy next season. Question is do you press the reset button at the end of the season or let things play out.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I'm big on stats and numbers in general but context is everything.

How many of them were badly hamstrung, having to keep us afloat while cutting wages etc and at the 2nd not 3rd tier where we are a much smaller fish and there is the small matter of Parachute Payments too? Plus having to blood more young talent.

I think he has done okay here all things considered.

[Davefevs]

48 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

I agree with most of this. We can’t go on excusing his poor performances and results and blaming MA and LJ forever. At some point NP has to earn our support, rather than get it for free because he’s not a Johnson or Ashton. 
I was also extremely surprised and disappointed with the Simpson debacle. 
However, like you said - I also don’t like changing the manager every 5 minutes. I’m prepared to give him more time - for now, but I hold his feet firmly to the fire. 
Re: Warnock I actually thought he might have been able to do a job for us a few years back, but he’s lost a lot of his ‘fire’ now and I think he’s past it. He’s 73 after all and should be taking it easy. Cardiff promotion will prove to have been his last throw of the dice methinks. 

I agree, but we can’t ignore it either, whoever you want to blame or stop blaming, a complete “clusterduck” of a situation has been created for someone to come in and remedy.  Those “somebody’s” tasked with remedying it are Gould and Pearson.

Some posters in here seem to think there any show of support is sycophantic, but they look at the posts with one eye and their own agendas.  There are very few, if any, decreeing messiah like performances on the pitch, most of us showing support are merely caveating on-pitch stuff with the state the club are in.  Put it simply, you don’t lose £38m if all is rosy, do you?  It’s fine if posters want to judge purely on what results we get on the pitch, but the context is wider than that.  If you don’t want to see that, fine, but expect others to argue the bigger picture too.

I do love the snide posts from one or two.  Amazing how triggered some can be.  To post on a forum that everything I post has to be scrutinised and challenged, is obsessive to say the least.  Why would a professional  care so much about a nobody on a fan’s forum.  If they are genuinely involved somehow at the club, what a back-stabbing employee we have.  No wonder they haven’t taken up @billywedlock’s offer to meet Pearson.

And yet other posters often with the opposite opinion to me can have reasoned discussion, e.g. @Marina's Rolls Royce, @And Its Smith, etc.  That’s why I post on OTIB and I will carry on doing so.  Thanks to those posters and the ones who share similar opinions to me for making OTIB what it is.

[eardun]

1 hour ago, 2015 said:

The majority of the fans don't but the club certainly do. Listening to Jon in January suggests within the club they rate the squad higher than their current position.

I trust Pearson’s judgment on rating the players on their ability to perform consistently well at championship level over anyone else at the club. And I reckon that is partly what Pearson is referring to when he says the club is passive, i.e. too accepting of the status quo/mediocrity.

[RedRock]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

So we bring in a new manager, as many on here hope for. He wipes the slate clean with the squad and we start next season with Palmer, Bakinson, Vyner, Taylor Moore in the starting 11. How long before new manager realises, actually they are cr*p haven' t got the desire of just too thick to follow tactical instructions. What then. Send them out in loan next December and bring in other cheap options to keep us afloat because by then we will probably be adrift at the foot of the table. 

NP isn't perfect but imo we need to keep our nerve and see how the pre season unfolds. There have been positive s this season and enough to build on for a better season next. It still won't be great but with our situation as it is all we can hope for are small signs of progression until the anchor weighing us down ( big wages) is removed we have zero wriggle room.

You haven’t mentioned CoD! So, progress. 

For me, CoDs time with us just sums up our entire situation/operation and why we are in an absolute cluster**** of a hole.

On your more general point though, I agree. Don’t think I can deal with another season of the same faces, making the same mistakes, the same attitudes, the same injuries, the same inconsistencies while a new manager assesses his squad.

Is the grass any greener on the other side? Possibly not, and you can point to Pearson’s appointments off and on the pitch and say, at best, they’ve made bugger all difference. The likes of Simpson, King have made us worse. Counter-argument would be how many ‘fresh slates’ do our players want? They’ve seen off LJ, Holden, Simpson and nearly Pearson.

I’ve reached the stage of roll-the-dice, I’m past watching the same old players churn out the same old performances. 

[CiderJar]

17 hours ago, Mr Chappers said:

Has to be judged according to League, resources etc. Pearson inherited a mess, and has done well keeping us up (With help from point deductions). Personally, I rated Holden, undone by injuries and fan demands for a ‘big name’. 

I agree with this, but the point deductions have no bearing on anything as things stand. Hull, Reading, Barnsley and Peterborough would all still be below us. 

[Mr Chappers]

34 minutes ago, CiderJar said:

I agree with this, but the point deductions have no bearing on anything as things stand. Hull, Reading, Barnsley and Peterborough would all still be below us. 

Agree, but it has given us a cushion, taking pressure off the squad. 

[Guest]

While SL is picking managers expect more of the same, makes no difference if NP or his next choice is managing, the slide will continue; I fear SC`s record breaking efforts to get us back here will soon be undone by SL.

Throwing money at those managers chosen makes things worse (I think he`s realised that at least) until the driver is changed we are on the same route.....to no-where.