Tough, but come on, stick with it...!

[Kingswood Robin]

24 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think that, although there are certainly a few for whom the “entertainment” is a factor in not renewing, they tend to be the minority group in non-renewal.

Football is unlike any other “entertainment” industry where the loyalty to the club is hard wired, it’s part of peoples identity (yes, as the PR said, it’s a way of life). For most people, if you have a bad meal at a restaurant you don’t go there and there is an alternate you’ll enjoy as much. For football fans - it’s not that much of an option (I enjoy going to Yate Town but I don’t get the same feeling at Lodge Road as I do at City). So, despite at times lack of entertainment we keep coming back.

The biggest factors around non renewals are, and always will be, cost or stage of life. With the first, I have no doubt with the COL crisis that many people will have to forego season tickets (and I hope that the club do some inventive POD pricing to allow them to attend at least some games). With the second, I remember my spell of no S/T - it was for c4 years (Millen and McInnes era), and I’d just had my first kid. For me, at that time, I couldn’t justify the time away from the family and leaving the OH on her own every Saturday. There will be others who forego for similar reasons each year.

What I’m saying is the club know and expect a certain number of non renewers. And this year, they’ll expect that to be higher due to the economy. The renewal number being down will not be seen as being down to dissatisfaction with the “product” - and that’s probably correct.

Having been through most of those life stages, I agree with most of the above. I do think that there is a limit to how long people will put up with it being poor, especially at home. It's over 4 years now and we also have a glimpse of the future suggesting that's it's not getting better soon. It's wearing people down. Coupled with the cost of living, the club may get a smack in the chops when it comes to season ticket sales, maybe not so much this time, but this time next year after a hard winter.  

[Yellow&Blue&Red]

I slightly (and politely) disagree @Silvio Dante. People have kids or leave to go to work in another city or go to Uni... or whatever  - stage of life stuff as you say. But I think that churn is quite a big number each year (10-20%? I really don't know, I'm speculating), with the club needing to make new season ticket sales each year to fill the gap and that those new sales do depend on the quality of the product on offer. Add to that the fact that people really do stop coming as a club sinks through the divisions - it's not just stage of life - AND the cost of living squeeze we're all experiencing and I think there's scope for the club to see quite a big drop in attendances from one season to the next.

[pillred]

45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Better hope Reg Dwight sells out then

Have you seen the price of the tickets? I was absolutely gobsmacked when I looked, if you don't know them have a look I think you will be as shocked as I was, unbelievable.

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said:

I slightly (and politely) disagree @Silvio Dante. People have kids or leave to go to work in another city or go to Uni... or whatever  - stage of life stuff as you say. But I think that churn is quite a big number each year (10-20%? I really don't know, I'm speculating), with the club needing to make new season ticket sales each year to fill the gap and that those new sales do depend on the quality of the product on offer. Add to that the fact that people really do stop coming as a club sinks through the divisions - it's not just stage of life - AND the cost of living squeeze we're all experiencing and I think there's scope for the club to see quite a big drop in attendances from one season to the next.

Never any problem with a polite disagreement

I think your nuance is probably correct - it’s not that we’ll lose a disproportionate amount through “performance”, but there is the aspect of replacing the “life stagers” who move on, and that’s less easy to do with a struggling side.

If you like, we’re in a position that was debated when we looked in danger of going up to the prem. Is it better to be challenging at the top of a division consistently, or to be struggling at the wrong end of the division above. I’d never say you “take” a relegation (look at Sunderland, Ipswich etc), but if you go down and come straight back up, that promotion campaign gives an ongoing shot in the arm to ticket sales for a few years.

 

[Silvio Dante]

6 minutes ago, pillred said:

Have you seen the price of the tickets? I was absolutely gobsmacked when I looked, if you don't know them have a look I think you will be as shocked as I was, unbelievable.

After seeing the prices, it’s a miracle I’m Still Standing.

[spudski]

13 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Fair play French, I appreciate the reply. I guess I’ve always tried to look at the bigger picture - rather than just zoning in on the minutiae of individual performances right now, I think it’s worth remembering the LJ and MA years left a legacy that would impact the freedoms of any incoming head coach - and the fact we managed to attract a new manager of the calibre of Nigel Pearson given all the apparent restrictions is simply amazing - I choose to support him and the chaps through this very difficult time - you choose to walk away, that’s fine - we are probably both wrong!!

Personally I think it was easier supporting the struggling side back in the 80s.

We knew exactly the situation and there was no pretence. It was a struggle...but a backs to the wall struggle with nothing. No expectations.

Now it's the opposite.

Expectation after expectation. Rammed down our throats in the last decade. That we are Prem in the waiting. 

New stadium, new facilities, new training ground...to attract better quality players and management etc. To facilitate the Prem dream.

But what does it really encourage?

It shows that you can earn a very good living at this level without having to bust a gut. Everything done for you, the best of everything. It shows/showed you can earn 20k, own a flash car, be mediocre and Bob about in the Championship...knowing full well, that you'll get a similar contract elsewhere at another Championship team, if you so desire. Just because you've played  at this level.

These players are pretty much made now for life. Without breaking a sweat.

How do you motivate players to do better, when it's so easy, if you have this level of talent, to not rest on your laurel's?

The mind set is massively wrong.

You turn up in your flash car, mobbed by adoring fans, youngsters wanting your autograph and selfie. Worshipped. Looked after like a thoroughbred race horse, train a bit, rest a lot...and then go through the motions on the pitch. 

And there are no consequences to those actions.

Everything sets a bad example.

[Red Exile]

23 minutes ago, pillred said:

A membership is a good idea at £5 off every game you do attend, any more than 5 games and you start saving money then at least you still feel part of the club without severing your ties completely.

Yep. We’ll be doing that. 

[GrahamC]

39 minutes ago, pillred said:

Have you seen the price of the tickets? I was absolutely gobsmacked when I looked, if you don't know them have a look I think you will be as shocked as I was, unbelievable.

Standard though, isn’t it?

I’ve got tickets for Roxy Music at the O2 in October & they were just extortionate.

At the risk of completely derailing the thread though (& I get that musical taste is totally subjective) this is probably going to be the last opportunity to see people who have created some of the songs that will last for ever, so paying £38 (in comparison) to watch some average at best footballers pass the ball extremely badly every fortnight (home games only for me) doesn’t look like better value, & yes I will be getting another ST..

[Sleepy1968]

14 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Blimey - you obviously weren’t around in the early 1980s - the incredibly loyal Bristol City fans back then would have given anything to be in the position we are in now - yet we kept turning up, home and away. We never contemplated saying “that’s it for me” like the entitled ones say today ...

to be fair there were a lot less of us that kept turning up, especially for the first season in the 4th division. Take away today's snow-flakes and hopefully we'd have more die-hards than years ago, but I don't want that tested by a double relegation.

[Red Exile]

26 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

to be fair there were a lot less of us that kept turning up, especially for the first season in the 4th division. Take away today's snow-flakes and hopefully we'd have more die-hards than years ago, but I don't want that tested by a double relegation.

There were indeed a lot less of us back then, and in my youth I was very happy to be one of the die-hards when opportunity presented. As @spudski says that seems like a different world where the fans, players and folk who ran the club were much closer together. 

[BigTone]

3 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

If fans 'break the habit' by not buying a season ticket the chances are they'll find POTD prices are so off putting that unless City are doing so well that disenchantment is completely overturned by a burst of renewed enthusiasm they're not likely to go at all.

Are we likely to do so well next season that those fans will be clamouring to get back down there? We all know the answer to that.

The writing was on the wall for the club last Summer when over 1700 fans who'd held a ST for 7 years or more did not renew. 

What have the club done since then, on or off the pitch, to tempt them back, and, after yet another wearisome season - I make that 4 in a row - how many more will follow them now? 

 

Next season is a big worry for me

[Major Isewater]

Some people  have their Eastenders and Corrie , we have the never ending soap opera that is BCFC. 
It’s an addiction. 

[REDOXO]

Come July a couple of ins and outs, then most get the big bug back and buy their tickets/membership/shirt. 
 

We have had worse seasons and got relegated, we weren’t. The club is being shaken up and is facing up to the post Covid reality. 
 

Pearson is having to build the Alan Dicks way (largely from within and cute buys). That’s where we are no amount of whining changes that. 
 

Maybe some of the weak underbelly Pearson talks of is a reference to some supporters!?

[supercidered]

3 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Come July a couple of ins and outs, then most get the big bug back and buy their tickets/membership/shirt. 
 

We have had worse seasons and got relegated, we weren’t. The club is being shaken up and is facing up to the post Covid reality. 
 

Pearson is having to build the Alan Dicks way (largely from within and cute buys). That’s where we are no amount of whining changes that. 
 

Maybe some of the weak underbelly Pearson talks of is a reference to some supporters!?

Tin hat time for you Red 

I guess if people choose to not turn up, not renew STs or memberships then it's their choice. I do get it and I do understand it.

However, I'm old enough to remember the dark days of 82 and let's not forget how dark it was after that. For me though, I tend to be even more of a supporter in the bad times than the good.

Yea, I know that sounds ridiculous but I develop even more of a siege mentality in times like these and when my mates take the p!ss because we are at times bloody awful. I just say to them go back to supporting your Premier League team on the TV and leave me alone to follow my team, my club from the City I was born. 

I still get the buzz on match days and I still leave the match saying 'never again' then the next game comes and there I am back at the match. 

Most of us knew what was coming this season (or worse) and most of know what's coming next season and probably the one after that too. For me as a fan in my 50's I'm just going to dig in, keep calm (sort of) and carry on as I always have.

[maxjak]

15 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

On Thursday I renewed my ST but moved to a seat in W16 at more than a £100 dearer.

On Friday, our very ill dog want to the vets at didn't return home.

So on Saturday I went to Ashton Gate hoping for some entertainment to cheer me up with some goals for us and a clean sheet.

I saw sideways and backward football, misplaced passes a plenty, a minimal number of shots on the Peterboro' goal (were there any except our goal?). One team that passed the ball well and worked hard and another that looked like the shambles of a year ago.

 

 

As a fellow dog owner...I commiserate, and I am so sorry to hear about your poor companion.  I think your a very loyal and optimistic supporter, and well done for buying a season ticket.  However, if you are looking for entertainment and something to cheer you up at Ashton Gate?................ then may I   suggest you lower your expectations, buy a new dog, and spend Saturday afternoon's  walking him on the Downs?  The Down's League is entertaining, and you never know, you might actually see some proper football?

[REDOXO]

55 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Tin hat time for you Red 

I guess if people choose to not turn up, not renew STs or memberships then it's their choice. I do get it and I do understand it.

However, I'm old enough to remember the dark days of 82 and let's not forget how dark it was after that. For me though, I tend to be even more of a supporter in the bad times than the good.

Yea, I know that sounds ridiculous but I develop even more of a siege mentality in times like these and when my mates take the p!ss because we are at times bloody awful. I just say to them go back to supporting your Premier League team on the TV and leave me alone to follow my team, my club from the City I was born. 

I still get the buzz on match days and I still leave the match saying 'never again' then the next game comes and there I am back at the match. 

Most of us knew what was coming this season (or worse) and most of know what's coming next season and probably the one after that too. For me as a fan in my 50's I'm just going to dig in, keep calm (sort of) and carry on as I always have.

Yes like your style. I’m 60 so we have shared memory. 
 

Yes I have my tin at the ready. But we both know how poor crowds got for long periods when we were really struggling. My old man used to say well at least we won the punch up after trudging away after another defeat. But a few of us kept coming back particularly at away games through thin and thinner. All preying we would uncover another Gerry Gow to drive us on. 
 

The current team lacks that, however a semi fit Williams or James is a handicap that stops us ever being in control in the midfield. 
 

Nevertheles. I think we are one good fundamentally fit player away. 
 

we surrender leads but don’t forget we take them in the first place so there is something to build on!

I get fed up with the rattle out of the pram attitude and the blame game aimed at the only bloke with backbone enough and a track record to take this shit fest on 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Some people  have their Eastenders and Corrie , we have the never ending soap opera that is BCFC. 
It’s an addiction. 

Feels like Crossroads is more apt….what happened to Benny (which one you may ask)?

[supercidered]

37 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Yes like your style. I’m 60 so we have shared memory. 
 

Yes I have my tin at the ready. But we both know how poor crowds got for long periods when we were really struggling. My old man used to say well at least we won the punch up after trudging away after another defeat. But a few of us kept coming back particularly at away games through thin and thinner. All preying we would uncover another Gerry Gow to drive us on. 
 

The current team lacks that, however a semi fit Williams or James is a handicap that stops us ever being in control in the midfield. 
 

Nevertheles. I think we are one good fundamentally fit player away. 
 

we surrender leads but don’t forget we take them in the first place so there is something to build on!

I get fed up with the rattle out of the pram attitude and the blame game aimed at the only bloke with backbone enough and a track record to take this shit fest on 

Agree with all of that.

Hopefully, there is a plan with the powers that be and that plan is to stick with it and leave football matters to football people. That's all it is though, 'hope'.

Whatever, does happen in the future then at least there are still plenty of die hards around and long may that continue. The 'rattle out of pram attitudes' are quite loud but that is usually the case isn't it?

I still feel that despite all of the things that are wrong with the club at the moment and things will look difficult for the foreseeable future the majority of fans are just digging in and getting on with it. 

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, supercidered said:

Agree with all of that.

Hopefully, there is a plan with the powers that be and that plan is to stick with it and leave football matters to football people. That's all it is though, 'hope'.

Whatever, does happen in the future then at least there are still plenty of die hards around and long may that continue. The 'rattle out of pram attitudes' are quite loud but that is usually the case isn't it?

I still feel that despite all of the things that are wrong with the club at the moment and things will look difficult for the foreseeable future the majority of fans are just digging in and getting on with it. 

Agreed!

[Numero Uno]

4 hours ago, supercidered said:

Agree with all of that.

Hopefully, there is a plan with the powers that be and that plan is to stick with it and leave football matters to football people. That's all it is though, 'hope'.

Whatever, does happen in the future then at least there are still plenty of die hards around and long may that continue. The 'rattle out of pram attitudes' are quite loud but that is usually the case isn't it?

I still feel that despite all of the things that are wrong with the club at the moment and things will look difficult for the foreseeable future the majority of fans are just digging in and getting on with it. 

The number of no shows is never usually as high as the mood on here dictates but I can see us just about hitting 10k season tickets next season with crowds of 14-16k being the norm. Another poor season of football will be the straw that breaks the camels back the following season imo. The next transfer window is where Nige earns his corn imo.

[eardun]

8 hours ago, spudski said:

Personally I think it was easier supporting the struggling side back in the 80s.

We knew exactly the situation and there was no pretence. It was a struggle...but a backs to the wall struggle with nothing. No expectations.

Now it's the opposite.

Expectation after expectation. Rammed down our throats in the last decade. That we are Prem in the waiting. 

New stadium, new facilities, new training ground...to attract better quality players and management etc. To facilitate the Prem dream.

But what does it really encourage?

It shows that you can earn a very good living at this level without having to bust a gut. Everything done for you, the best of everything. It shows/showed you can earn 20k, own a flash car, be mediocre and Bob about in the Championship...knowing full well, that you'll get a similar contract elsewhere at another Championship team, if you so desire. Just because you've played  at this level.

These players are pretty much made now for life. Without breaking a sweat.

How do you motivate players to do better, when it's so easy, if you have this level of talent, to not rest on your laurel's?

The mind set is massively wrong.

You turn up in your flash car, mobbed by adoring fans, youngsters wanting your autograph and selfie. Worshipped. Looked after like a thoroughbred race horse, train a bit, rest a lot...and then go through the motions on the pitch. 

And there are no consequences to those actions.

Everything sets a bad example.

I think this is what Pearson was referring to when he said ‘passive’. 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

The number of no shows is never usually as high as the mood on here dictates but I can see us just about hitting 10k season tickets next season with crowds of 14-16k being the norm. Another poor season of football will be the straw that breaks the camels back the following season imo. The next transfer window is where Nige earns his corn imo.

Spot on re the crowd estimate.

I cannot see how Pearson can “earn his corn” if we have no money & cannot shift those we don’t want.

An interesting but possibly depressing summer coming up. I think.

[BUTOR]

8 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Come July a couple of ins and outs, then most get the big bug back and buy their tickets/membership/shirt. 
 

We have had worse seasons and got relegated, we weren’t. The club is being shaken up and is facing up to the post Covid reality. 
 

Pearson is having to build the Alan Dicks way (largely from within and cute buys). That’s where we are no amount of whining changes that. 
 

Maybe some of the weak underbelly Pearson talks of is a reference to some supporters!?

The ‘passiveness of everybody’ I felt included supporters. The majority of the time we are exactly that.

[Bedred31]

I think NP asks a lot of his players and many ( perhaps most) just aren’t programmed to cope or respond, regardless of motivation. His management strategy really depends on the ability to trade these players out and replace them with players whose personality he can trust. This may not require huge amounts of money, as he has a record of discovering footballing ‘sleepers’. But it does demand ins and outs. If, as with City at present, volume player turnover is effectively impossible, then I think his methodology is undermined fatally. 

[Redland]

10 hours ago, spudski said:

Personally I think it was easier supporting the struggling side back in the 80s.

We knew exactly the situation and there was no pretence. It was a struggle...but a backs to the wall struggle with nothing. No expectations.

Now it's the opposite.

Expectation after expectation. Rammed down our throats in the last decade. That we are Prem in the waiting. 

New stadium, new facilities, new training ground...to attract better quality players and management etc. To facilitate the Prem dream.

But what does it really encourage?

It shows that you can earn a very good living at this level without having to bust a gut. Everything done for you, the best of everything. It shows/showed you can earn 20k, own a flash car, be mediocre and Bob about in the Championship...knowing full well, that you'll get a similar contract elsewhere at another Championship team, if you so desire. Just because you've played  at this level.

These players are pretty much made now for life. Without breaking a sweat.

How do you motivate players to do better, when it's so easy, if you have this level of talent, to not rest on your laurel's?

The mind set is massively wrong.

You turn up in your flash car, mobbed by adoring fans, youngsters wanting your autograph and selfie. Worshipped. Looked after like a thoroughbred race horse, train a bit, rest a lot...and then go through the motions on the pitch. 

And there are no consequences to those actions.

Everything sets a bad example.

That’s where a manager like Neil Warnock was excellent. Like him or not he always managed to motivate his players wherever he went and many times his players were quoted as saying that they would “run through a brick wall” for him. A successful team is not only about having the best players. Motivation, determination and application are equally important and unfortunately these characteristics seem to be lacking at City. I suppose this is what Pearson means when he describes us as a passive club.

[AshtonGreat]

On 10/04/2022 at 21:54, grifty said:

I agree, our performance didn't look down to a lack of effort, it's just they can't do basics right. Simple passes are just constantly mis-hit or to the wrong player. No football knowledge of moving about to create space behind.

Imagine getting paid 20 grand a week for that