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FOREVER BRISTOL CITY PODCAST - City flying high in end of season demolition of Hull!


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https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/city-flying-high-in-end-of-season-demolition-of-hull/

The perfect way to sign off the 21/22 season at home as City scored 5 without reply against the Tigers.

The W-S-M strike combination scored all the goals and provided the assists in a sparkling display which augers well for next season.

Ian, Mark, Neil & DaveP discuss the game, transfer speculation plus the outside investment in the club owner Steve Lansdown says he wants but at what price.

There's no talk of flying shoes or old player interviews in this episode.

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  • The title was changed to FOREVER BRISTOL CITY PODCAST - City flying high in end of season demolition of Hull!

Listening at the mo’.

1:29 in, did Ian see where Hull’s shots were from?  Shows he doesn’t understand the context of stats….again.

Not sure I get the “we need a creative midfielder to serve WSM”…their record shows they get chances…the way they play, they create their own stuff too.

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Listening at the mo’.

1:29 in, did Ian see where Hull’s shots were from?  Shows he doesn’t understand the context of stats….again.

Not sure I get the “we need a creative midfielder to serve WSM”…their record shows they get chances…the way they play, they create their own stuff too.

He has plenty more to say, including taking me to task over Callum O'Dowda. 

There's also a 'revelation' from Neil about the possible return of a former player this Summer.

Edited by Curr Avon
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3 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

He has plenty more to say, including taking me to task over Callum O'Dowda. 

I heard his rude and arrogant response.  Embarrassing.  I take it today’s news from Bristol Online on Callum that RG isn’t as savvy a businessman as Ian…because it looks like we won’t be exercising his one year option.

Whilst swap deals are rare, they can be done…but Moore and Sykes for O’Dowda is a completely unrealistic “straight swap” financially.  It’s hugely uneven.

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13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I heard his rude and arrogant response.  Embarrassing.  I take it today’s news from Bristol Online on Callum that RG isn’t as savvy a businessman as Ian…because it looks like we won’t be exercising his one year option.

Whilst swap deals are rare, they can be done…but Moore and Sykes for O’Dowda is a completely unrealistic “straight swap” financially.  It’s hugely uneven.

Ian Gay is always negative about all things Bristol City and yet is so say is a City fan - I find that hard to believe.

Saturdays 5 goal thrashing of Hull and he mentions Hull having shots in goal? I remember one that Bentley pushed over the bar.

The guy talks out of his arse much of the time and that’s why I don’t bother with podcasts that he’s involved with.

He used to be on here as Bristol Boy but now posts on Ziderheads as TTO (the trusted one….:disapointed2se:)and where no one ever challenges him

He no longer post on otib because on here he’d get called out and challenged. That never happens on ZHs

Edited by Robbored
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Listened to it this morning. I find Ian fascinating. He gave it spuds about business, Neil then embarrassed him with some basic figures before an agitated Ian then bit back at Mark. Fair play if he’s successful in business - I have though worked for a couple of one track bullies which sound all to similar to IG. The ego on the bloke that he actually believes Richard Gould would reveal player salaries. Classic Brent. 

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49 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Saturdays 5 goal thrashing of Hull and he mentions Hull having shots in goal? I remember one that Bentley pushed over the bar.

Hull had 12 shots, the same number as us. 

However, 8 of ours were on target whilst Hull hit the target 5 times.

Five shots on target is actually decent. However, the final killer stat is that our average xG per shot was 0.14 whilst Hull's was 0.06. 

So, although the teams had the same raw number of shots, ours were about twice as good. Same quantity but twice the quality. Couple that with a good day at the office for Bentley and a horror show for Baxter, and you see why we were much more effective in attack, and therefore much more likely to score than Hull.

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1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Hull had 12 shots, the same number as us. 

However, 8 of ours were on target whilst Hull hit the target 5 times.

Five shots on target is actually decent. However, the final killer stat is that our average xG per shot was 0.14 whilst Hull's was 0.06. 

So, although the teams had the same raw number of shots, ours were about twice as good. Same quantity but twice the quality. Couple that with a good day at the office for Bentley and a horror show for Baxter, and you see why we were much more effective in attack, and therefore much more likely to score than Hull.

image.png.3adadb188f048da954798ef88344a353.png
several hopeful hits!

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

image.png.3adadb188f048da954798ef88344a353.png
several hopeful hits!

Yeh, exactly. Their best chance was number 5 above, Lewis-Potters close range header. But even that was him falling away, heading back towards goal. Sharp save by Bentley, but 'all' he had to do was get to it. The rest of them are long range efforts with probably less than 5% chance of going in.

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9 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Hull had 12 shots, the same number as us. 

However, 8 of ours were on target whilst Hull hit the target 5 times.

I noticed that Hull were shooting from distance and put that down to Citys off the ball play and actually mentioned that to the guys I sit with. I only remember one forcing Bentley into a save.

Maybe the other 11 attempts were those long shots………….:dunno:

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5 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

It’s shocking, isn't it? Why do other people do this? 

I guess that the reason is that there’s very few, if any posters on here that can compete with his negativity - thankfully.  I can’t think of anyone who repeatedly bleat the same old dreary shite.

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4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I noticed that Hull were shooting from distance and put that down to Citys off the ball play and actually mentioned that to the guys I sit with. I only remember one forcing Bentley into a save.

Maybe the other 11 attempts were those long shots………….:dunno:

Yeh, and to be fair, I think Ian tries to make that point. His failure IMO is to then conclude by saying that the difference in the type and range of shots mean that it was our superior finishing that was the difference. That's clearly wrong as the type of shots weren't the same. The difference was in our ability to run in behind, pierce their defence, and create chances that gave our forwards a better chance of scoring. If they'd missed the same quality of shot as we scored, then the difference is the finishing. But that isn't what happened yesterday.

PS. @headhunter if you're going to have Ian on could you splash out and buy him a proper mic? Bit annoying having to turn the volume up when he speaks and then get deafened when anyone else comes on.

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6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yeh, and to be fair, I think Ian tries to make that point. His failure IMO is to then conclude by saying that the difference in the type and range of shots mean that it was our superior finishing that was the difference. That's clearly wrong as the type of shots weren't the same. The difference was in our ability to run in behind, pierce their defence, and create chances that gave our forwards a better chance of scoring. If they'd missed the same quality of shot as we scored, then the difference is the finishing. But that isn't what happened yesterday.

PS. @headhunter if you're going to have Ian on could you splash out and buy him a proper mic? Bit annoying having to turn the volume up when he speaks and then get deafened when anyone else comes on.

I did say that I think single handedly Lewis-potter had about 5-6 of the shots as he was trying to score worldeys.

The bit we spoke about COD has aged well, after the Post article this morning 🤣🤣🤣.

I sometimes think the Dunning-Kruger effect  is alive and in full swing when i do the podcasts.😊

 

https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740

 

 

Edited by NcnsBcfc
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23 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

 @headhunter if you're going to have Ian on could you splash out and buy him a proper mic? Bit annoying having to turn the volume up when he speaks and then get deafened when anyone else comes on.

If I ever listen to a podcast again and Ian is on it, I’d be delighted if I couldn’t hear him……….……:rofl2br:

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1 hour ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Listened to it this morning. I find Ian fascinating. He gave it spuds about business, Neil then embarrassed him with some basic figures before an agitated Ian then bit back at Mark.

I like Neil, he's a good addition to the pod - reasoned and logical, and he actually listens. His quick figures for demonstration-sake to counter ian's COD proposal was spot on.

It's a shame Ian appears to dislike challenge / is unable to admit when wrong. If he acts like that in the business world, he must drive colleagues mad. And God help the company if he's like that with customers too! 

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1 hour ago, NcnsBcfc said:

The bit we spoke about COD has aged well, after the Post article this morning 🤣🤣🤣.

The COD chat I thought was interesting, and is still interesting regardless of the article. Him signing a new contract on reduced terms would come across to me as a compromise between shifting him for free and saving the wage, and keeping him on his current deal. He's in his prime, he's got the athleticism that Pearson wants, I think he's actually a hard worker. He's not found his place 

PS. Wells is Bermudian, not Bahamian.

PPS. Ashton is no longer on the board of the EFL, so will have no influence (officially) over any FFP application. https://www.efl.com/-more/all-about-the-efl/efl-board/

PPS. Weimann's shot conversion rate is indeed excellent this season. It's so excellent in fact that it outstrips many of the greatest players in the world. So is it right to expect it to be maintained? I'd argue that it's not. Giving him more shots doesn't necessarily guarantee more goals any more than giving Dasilva more shots guarantees more goals.

PPPS. To invest in, or purchase Bristol City FC no one needs to "extricate" the club from Bristol Sport, nor do they need to buy Bristol Sport. They would need to purchase the club either from Pula Sport, or directly from Bristol City Holdings Ltd, or they could invest directly into Bristol City Holdings Ltd. This is the corporate structure of the group. Bristol Sport does not own the Club. FFS I though Ian was a businessman?

image.thumb.png.f0f5ef44cb7ffee2ea4fa0ca07c02c0f.png

PPPPS. Championship club's and Premier League club's owners have to satisfy different so-called "fit-and-proper persons" tests. The relevance of the Saudi PIF fund being deemed to pass the Premier League's test is minimal when talking about the hypothetical investment into our club by Sir Jim Ratcliffe or A.N. Other investor.

Edited by ExiledAjax
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Nor are we losing £8.5m in assets (Wells + Palmer).  Even if £3.5m and £5.0m were their initial fees, their asset value has depreciated (amortised) over their time here.  Another example of a businessman not understanding the finances.

FWIW Bristol City ain’t worth £200m even with Ashton Gate, regardless of whether SL has got £150m of shares imho.  Without the ground, it’s significantly less.

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2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

The COD chat I thought was interesting, and is still interesting regardless of the article. Him signing a new contract on reduced terms would come across to me as a compromise between shifting him for free and saving the wage, and keeping him on his current deal. He's in his prime, he's got the athleticism that Pearson wants, I think he's actually a hard worker. He's not found his place 

PS. Wells is Bermudian, not Bahamian.

PPS. Ashton is no longer on the board of the EFL, so will have no influence (officially) over any FFP application. https://www.efl.com/-more/all-about-the-efl/efl-board/

PPS. Weimann's shot conversion rate is indeed excellent this season. It's so excellent in fact that it outstrips many of the greatest players in the world. So is it right to expect it to be maintained? I'd argue that it's not. Giving him more shots doesn't necessarily guarantee more goals any more than giving Dasilva more shots guarantees more goals.

PPPS. To invest in, or purchase Bristol City FC no one needs to "extricate" the club from Bristol Sport, nor do they need to buy Bristol Sport. They would need to purchase the club either from Pula Sport, or directly from Bristol City Holdings Ltd, or they could invest directly into Bristol City Holdings Ltd. This is the corporate structure of the group. Bristol Sport does not own the Club. FFS I though Ian was a businessman?

image.thumb.png.f0f5ef44cb7ffee2ea4fa0ca07c02c0f.png

PPPPS. Championship club's and Premier League club's owners have to satisfy different so-called "fit-and-proper persons" tests. The relevance of the Saudi PIF fund being deemed to pass the Premier League's test is minimal when talking about the hypothetical investment into our club by Sir Jim Ratcliffe or A.N. Other investor.

Thanks for clarifying @ExiledAjax. I knew someone would know better than me.

The issue with COD was that Ian was saying exercise his option, not sign on reduced terms.

If his option was quite low in wages (like Bakinsons), it would make some sense. Just like it did in the end taking up Eliason's option a few years ago.

However on his current wages, and probably nobody willing to offer us anything for him, it's got to be the biggest no brainer of the summer to let him go.

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1 hour ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Thanks for clarifying @ExiledAjax. I knew someone would know better than me.

The issue with COD was that Ian was saying exercise his option, not sign on reduced terms.

If his option was quite low in wages (like Bakinsons), it would make some sense. Just like it did in the end taking up Eliason's option a few years ago.

However on his current wages, and probably nobody willing to offer us anything for him, it's got to be the biggest no brainer of the summer to let him go.

You're Neil right? Found myself agreeing with you most of all. Also I'm not sure any of my corrections applied to you.

I liked some of the chat, and that last bit about investment etc was interesting from a high level, but ruined by some incorrect statements that perpetuate false perceptions of how the club is set up. I just get a bit frustrated by that.

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Decided to give this episode a swerve. I really enjoyed the match Saturday and don't want Ian Gay and co putting a dampener on it. Fair play to Neil and Mark, i do usually enjoy their contributions (when they can get a word in edgeways)...but not this week.

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Neil is an excellent addition to the podcast and has kept me listening. Hats off to @headhunteras really keeping Ian under control over the last few weeks.

I think Ian has some sort of complex where he has to drop in “when I spoke to Richard Gould”. The problem is with these type of comments is he is becoming less and less credible and I no longer believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

I had a relatively long journey yesterday and my wife was listening to the podcast with me and her comments were “is Ian a Hull fan”, “why is he so angry & rude”. I had no answer to her questions.
 

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1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

You're Neil right? Found myself agreeing with you most of all. Also I'm not sure any of my corrections applied to you.

I liked some of the chat, and that last bit about investment etc was interesting from a high level, but ruined by some incorrect statements that perpetuate false perceptions of how the club is set up. I just get a bit frustrated by that.

I am Neil.

I enjoy doing the podcasts, but will only do them really after watching City live, as i don't think highlights or tv coverage can do justice to the amount of things that happen off screen. 

Unfortunately due to the reactive nature of my work, and working 1 week in 4, I can't always commit to them in advance.

I'm sure @headhunter & @Curr Avon (who are both great) would love other people to come on to the podcasts; and we all do respect each other's  point of views.

Ian has some really good things to say, there are some things I disagree with, but that's all about opinions.

I like the fact that people also post some really good points on the live chat as well during the recordings.

Fascinating summer ahead, with I reckon massive twists and turns in the transfer market; squad developments right up to the 30th July start.

 

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1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

You're Neil right? Found myself agreeing with you most of all. Also I'm not sure any of my corrections applied to you.

I liked some of the chat, and that last bit about investment etc was interesting from a high level, but ruined by some incorrect statements that perpetuate false perceptions of how the club is set up. I just get a bit frustrated by that.

Completely understand @ExiledAjax.

I doff my proverbial cap to people like you @Hxj @Mr Popodopolous and of course @Davefevs who have a handle on the finances.

I try to not give an opinion on finances, other that from my somewhat low base position the operating costs at the club are far far too high, for someone of our stature. We could fill AG every week and still post an 8 figure loss.

I'm guessing the nitty gritty of keeping these costs under control wasn't Gucci enough for our past Chief Executive, and things were allowed to run riot on the basis of "oh well, we'll just sell another player"

Reaping the whirlwind now of course, as does any company/individual who overextended themselves without firm foundations.

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8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I heard his rude and arrogant response.  Embarrassing.  I take it today’s news from Bristol Online on Callum that RG isn’t as savvy a businessman as Ian…because it looks like we won’t be exercising his one year option.

Whilst swap deals are rare, they can be done…but Moore and Sykes for O’Dowda is a completely unrealistic “straight swap” financially.  It’s hugely uneven.

I don't get the Moore link. Yes, he would be on a list of potential CBs out of contract; but surely the first choice would be to sign up Klose/Cundy & Idehen.; and then see where we are with Kalas, Moore and Vyner? From my perspective Moore is far too similar to the aforementioned players, and would possibly be looked at as a plan b or even a plan c option.

Why would NP need to scout Moore as well? He's seen him at two clubs already. He knows what Moore is about.

As for Sykes, interesting player on the way up in his career. On paper would be an intesting addition. But where does that leave Scott, if we're looking to possibly move him back into the CM slot next season?

Unless of course Scott is off??? All fun this, isn't it? 😂

 

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6 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Completely understand @ExiledAjax.

I doff my proverbial cap to people like you @Hxj @Mr Popodopolous and of course @Davefevs who have a handle on the finances.

I try to not give an opinion on finances, other that from my somewhat low base position the operating costs at the club are far far too high, for someone of our stature. We could fill AG every week and still post an 8 figure loss.

I'm guessing the nitty gritty of keeping these costs under control wasn't Gucci enough for our past Chief Executive, and things were allowed to run riot on the basis of "oh well, we'll just sell another player"

Reaping the whirlwind now of course, as does any company/individual who overextended themselves without firm foundations.

Those other costs will of course include some paid to Bristol Sport:

image.thumb.png.47c34c78f086fe330f9b552095d3ecd1.png

£10.431m of other costs total.

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5 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Completely understand @ExiledAjax.

I doff my proverbial cap to people like you @Hxj @Mr Popodopolous and of course @Davefevs who have a handle on the finances.

I try to not give an opinion on finances, other that from my somewhat low base position the operating costs at the club are far far too high, for someone of our stature. We could fill AG every week and still post an 8 figure loss.

I'm guessing the nitty gritty of keeping these costs under control wasn't Gucci enough for our past Chief Executive, and things were allowed to run riot on the basis of "oh well, we'll just sell another player"

Reaping the whirlwind now of course, as does any company/individual who overextended themselves without firm foundations.

Aw no the three you name have a better handle on the finances than I. Accounting techniques and the like is for accountants.

My knowledge and main interest lies in the corporate structure, and the methods by which someone might invest in or buy the club. It annoys me that people think Bristol Sport owns the club. It literally does not. So when Ian says that BS would be an obstacle for for investor, he's really quite wrong. Lansdown runs BS as a kind of brand that each of the sports teams licenses. If getting rid of BCFC's links to BS was part of a deal, then all you'd need to do is change some signs and the letterhead.

Bristol City Football Club Ltd owns everything - IP, EFL membership, player contracts, plus presumably commercial contracts such as with Huboo and Hummel - that you need to run the club. The only thing it doesn't own is the Stadium, but its immediate parent owns that so it's nearby. Note that the one thing I am not totally certain on is which company owns the training ground. I'm too tight to pay for a land registry search!

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3 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

I don't get the Moore link. Yes, he would be on a list of potential CBs out of contract; but surely the first choice would be to sign up Klose/Cundy & Idehen.; and then see where we are with Kalas, Moore and Vyner? From my perspective Moore is far too similar to the aforementioned players, and would possibly be looked at as a plan b or even a plan c option.

Why would NP need to scout Moore as well? He's seen him at two clubs already. He knows what Moore is about.

As for Sykes, interesting player on the way up in his career. On paper would be an intesting addition. But where does that leave Scott, if we're looking to possibly move him back into the CM slot next season?

Unless of course Scott is off??? All fun this, isn't it? 😂

 

I think the Moore link is interesting.  Interesting in that media reported Nige and Curtis watching Oxford v MK Dons, but initially hadn’t picked up the Elliott Moore history with Nige, until people like myself (and jbcfc on twitter), mentioned it.  Next day, reports were that Nige was there to watch Moore. Why wasn’t that reported initially…mmm! Basically we are in “silly season”.

Then Nige completely poo-poohs it, a) by saying why would he need to watch him having worked with him twice and b) he wasn’t there to watch him anyway, was looking at other players.

Sykes is a wide midfielder, a winger who has recently played RWB (he wouldn’t be competing with Scott for CM).  He hasn’t stood out for me when watching, and Harry who’s watched him in more detail than I have, thinks he plays on the periphery.  FWIW an Oxford “fanalyst” who I have a lot of time for thinks Lg1 is his ceiling.  His summary reply to me was “move to Champ in the summer, loan back to Lg1 in January”.  That didn’t give me a warm, fuzzy feeling!

Are you possibly confusing Sykes with Brannagan, who I do like?

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5 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

image.thumb.png.f0f5ef44cb7ffee2ea4fa0ca07c02c0f.png

Fyi @NcnsBcfc I think it was you that said that the Lansdowns won't sell until the sporting quarter is done.

I think that may be true, but wanted to note to you that the land on which that is being built is, I believe, owned by the company on the far right of my tree - Esteban Investments. That's the company that iirc is named on the planning applications for the work.

So, although closely related, it is possible for Pula Sport to sell Bristol City without selling the sport quarter development. It might not be desirable, as it makes sense to keep control of neighbouring land whilst you develop something, but it's possible. 

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