The Championship Constitution 22/23

[Silvio Dante]

Now today is over with, we know 19/24 of the teams in the division next year.

3 of the remaining 5 will come from Forest, Luton, Sheffield Utd or Huddersfield 

1 will come from Burnley, Leeds or Everton

1 will come from MK Dons, Wycombe, Sunderland or Sheffield Weds

So, the question becomes who we want?

Personally, my first priority is ensuring the division is as easy as it could be for City. On that basis my picks are:

Forest to go up - I don’t see Luton doing as well next year, nor Hudds -both are overachieving. Sheffield I think Heckingbotham will ultimately fail at whereas I think Cooper will get it right at Forest. I’d happily lose them as I think they’ll be a very good side next season

Wycombe to go up - self explanatory. I think if MK Dons go up they keep Twine, Darling etc and will be decent. Sunderland and Sheffield’s sheer size means they can attract players to be more than competitive so Wycombe are weakest - get them up.

Everton to go down - I think it will be Leeds, but counter intuitively I think Everton will be weakest. Burnley could keep most of their players (I’ve seen the loan speculation), and both them and Leeds have enough “streetwise” at this level. Everton are not set up for relegation - no clauses, players who won’t want to be there. They’d need a total rebuild, and I think they wouldn’t struggle, but wouldn’t dominate should they come down

Any other thoughts?

[Midred]

If Forest go up it'll be a championship desert in the east midlands. Birmingham and Sheffield will be the nearest.

[Davefevs]

SD - my kind of logic too.

[spudski]

I'm the opposite, would love Luton to go up and Leeds to come back down, plus Sunderland to come up.

I want the Championship to be the hardest league in the world, full of Clubs that are ' big'. Bigger the better. 

Who wants to do well in a ' Mickey mouse division'...

We aren't going to be going up any time soon, so might as well enjoy the bigger guns and build properly with strength.

My worst fear is to go up via the play offs weak, then come straight back down and free fall.

I don't trust anyone at our club with Premiership money.

[22A]

29 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

My worst fear is to go up via the play offs weak, then come straight back down and free fall.

 

Some years back WBA went up through the P/Os and their Chairman announced "W e know we're not staying here. So we'll enjoy this season and fall back but with the money. Instead of spending it on big names who might keep us up, we'll build a strong Championship team  and get promoted again, but then stay there for  a few seasons".

And that is what they did. Years later though the payments have dried up and they've finished mid table.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, 22A said:

Some years back WBA went up through the P/Os and their Chairman announced "W e know we're not staying here. So we'll enjoy this season and fall back but with the money. Instead of spending it on big names who might keep us up, we'll build a strong Championship team  and get promoted again, but then stay there for  a few seasons".

And that is what they did. Years later though the payments have dried up and they've finished mid table.

Hence yo yo baggies. 

I think you missed my statement of ' I don't trust anyone at our Club with Premiership money'.

Would love to be more like how Burnley were recently...or Brighton. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

Doesn't matter who comes down - they'll go straight back up or, minimum, be play offs.

Doesn't  matter who comes up - at least one of them, if not more, will struggle. 

Blackpool won't over achieve again. Cardiff have placed their faith in the wrong manager (oh dear). Hull and Birmingham are rubbish. What scope have Reading to spend and improve? Can Coventry progress further or is regression more likely? Millwall keep over achieving??

We're on an upward trajectory albeit a slow one. But look out the afore mentioned clubs because, to coin a phrase, - "we're coming to get ya" and "mind the gap"  

 

[GrahamC]

Think Burnley will be in trouble if they come down, so although parachute payment clubs have a massive advantage they would suit me.

Get the logic about Wycombe, if them Wigan & Rotherham are the 3, then they are all small clubs. Absolutely shite football to have to endure if we play them.

Forest or Sheff U, not bothered for the other one, can’t stand Luton, Huddersfield are excellent (& deserve it) but not as big as the other two.

[Hxj]

5 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Forest to go up

I would love that to happen.  My partner was a huge Forest fan, living in West Bridgford with a son who has been a season ticket holder for 20 odd years she had little choice!  She never went to a proper match but the radio commentary was always on, and she met loads of 'fit' (to quote her) players at the local David Lloyd.

But ignoring that, and what ever the result an amazing season for the club.  And I don't mean Derby being relegated!!!

[tin]

Forest will be strong next season if they don’t go up in the play-offs. They rolled the dice in the January window and it’s paid off for them to date. 

I’d like Wycombe to come up, they should’ve stayed up last year if it wasn’t for Derby, and they’d be down there next year. All three of the other sides in the L1 play-offs would be competitive. 

If Everton come down, they will dominate next year much like Newcastle did IMO. Yes, they need a rebuild but they’ve got some quality youth players who could come in. Leeds, however, won’t be as strong as they were under Bielsa. Get them and their arrogant fans down.

All my opinions, of course. 

Edited May 8, 2022 by tin

[Sir Geoff]

SD Burnley won't keep most of their players, they have 15 out if contract and will have to pay £65 million debt immediately. So in addition to the 15 they will be forced to sell Brownhill and any other decent contracted players. They will struggle next year.

[SimonL]

Did I read somewhere that Forest have a number of loan players from Premier League teams so if they don't go up they may not be as strong next season. 

[italian dave]

I think Burnley ( if they come down) and Watford could both struggle next season - at least more so than relegated clubs often do.

I wouldn’t mind Luton going up. I always like it when a ‘little’ club with a shitty little ground remind the Premiership giants what football is all about (That logic wouldn’t apply, obviously, in the case of one particular team with the shittiest little ground in football!).

Plus, our record against Luton in recent years is pretty terrible.

Happy for Wycombe to come up - we have enough long away trips next season already without adding Sunderland! 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, tin said:

Forest will be strong next season if they don’t go up in the play-offs. They rolled the dice in the January window and it’s paid off for them to date. 

I’d like Wycombe to come up, they should’ve stayed up last year if it wasn’t for Derby, and they’d be down there next year. All three of the other sides in the L1 play-offs would be competitive. 

If Everton come down, they will dominate next year much like Newcastle did IMO. Yes, they need a rebuild but they’ve got some quality youth players who could come in. Leeds, however, won’t be as strong as they were under Bielsa. Get them and their arrogant fans down.

All my opinions, of course. 

Forest will be an interesting one to watch over the summer if they don’t go up.  They are pretty tight for FFP even this season.  Once those loans return, will be interesting to see what happens to Johnson too.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just looking at a few of the sides.

Millwall will be highly likely to lose Wallace. Big big blow.

Everton if they come down could have a huge FFP issue, don't see why the EFL shouldn't come down hard.

Watford's magic touch of changing managers at the right time seems to have deserted them. I think they sacked NP at the wrong time in 2019/20, Gracia absolutely in the same season- his record in hi 18 months there was very respectable, just 4 games in I think.

Unsure they'd have been any worse off had they kept Xisco. Fixtures play a role but his record was comfortably the best of their 3 managers this year.

People say Nottingham Forest might go one better if they stay down. They might but how many of Spence (linked with numerous clubs), Zinckernagel and Davis return on loan? Unsure any. Then Brennan Johnson is heavily linked with a move elsewhere, how about Worrall? Contract in the case of Johnson expires in 2023 and they often sell players as a way of staying within FFP. Host of clubs interested in him I imagine.

Blackburn and QPR under new management could really go either way. In the case of Blackburn though, they might well lose Nyambe, Lenihan and Rothwell on a free! Might lose Brereton-Diaz too (his contract up but they have a year option which will surely be exercised) allbeit for £20m a good slug of which can be put back into the team. 

[Supersonic Robin]

15 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Personally, my first priority is ensuring the division is as easy as it could be for City. On that basis my picks are:

Forest to go up - I don’t see Luton doing as well next year, nor Hudds -both are overachieving. Sheffield I think Heckingbotham will ultimately fail at whereas I think Cooper will get it right at Forest. I’d happily lose them as I think they’ll be a very good side next season

Wycombe to go up - self explanatory. I think if MK Dons go up they keep Twine, Darling etc and will be decent. Sunderland and Sheffield’s sheer size means they can attract players to be more than competitive so Wycombe are weakest - get them up.

Everton to go down - I think it will be Leeds, but counter intuitively I think Everton will be weakest. Burnley could keep most of their players (I’ve seen the loan speculation), and both them and Leeds have enough “streetwise” at this level. Everton are not set up for relegation - no clauses, players who won’t want to be there. They’d need a total rebuild, and I think they wouldn’t struggle, but wouldn’t dominate should they come down

Any other thoughts?

Yepp, this is my principle concern too - I want the division to be as easy as possible for us.

I agree that L1 wise, that probably means hoping that Wycombe are promoted.

In terms of relegation from the Premier League, I have no idea. I suppose they're all likely to be significantly better than us (especially with parachute payments), so in some ways it doesn't matter quite so much. 

Promotion from the Championship is the interest one. IMO, if we're wanting the division to be at its easiest for City longer term, there's an argument for wanting to limit the number of teams receiving parachute payments. For example, a Sheffield United promotion would mean one less parachute payment team to compete against. Conversely, a Forest promotion would mean removing a non parachute payment club from the division (as well as likely adding another club into the Premier League/Championship Para Payment cycle).

15 hours ago, spudski said:

I'm the opposite, would love Luton to go up and Leeds to come back down, plus Sunderland to come up.

I want the Championship to be the hardest league in the world, full of Clubs that are ' big'. Bigger the better. 

Who wants to do well in a ' Mickey mouse division'...

We aren't going to be going up any time soon, so might as well enjoy the bigger guns and build properly with strength.

My worst fear is to go up via the play offs weak, then come straight back down and free fall.

I don't trust anyone at our club with Premiership money.

My thinking is the complete opposite. Not only do I want an "easier" league as it means we're more likely to win games, I also want a league in which we're one of the bigger clubs.

With every "big club" that enters the Championship, we essentially fall down the pecking order one place. Our relative spending power becomes slightly worse, as does our relative ability to attract players. Equally, with every season that a club like Sunderland or Sheffield Wednesday spends in L1, they becoming a little bit "smaller" and relative to them we become a little bit "bigger". 

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Yepp, this is my principle concern too - I want the division to be as easy as possible for us.

I agree that L1 wise, that probably means hoping that Wycombe are promoted.

In terms of relegation from the Premier League, I have no idea. I suppose they're all likely to be significantly better than us (especially with parachute payments), so in some ways it doesn't matter quite so much. 

Promotion from the Championship is the interest one. IMO, if we're wanting the division to be at its easiest for City longer term, there's an argument for wanting to limit the number of teams receiving parachute payments. For example, a Sheffield United promotion would mean one less parachute payment team to compete against. Conversely, a Forest promotion would mean removing a non parachute payment club from the division (as well as likely adding another club into the Premier League/Championship Para Payment cycle).

My thinking is the complete opposite. Not only do I want an "easier" league as it means we're more likely to win games, I also want a league in which we're one of the bigger clubs.

With every "big club" that enters the Championship, we essentially fall down the pecking order one place. Our relative spending power becomes slightly worse, as does our relative ability to attract players. Equally, with every season that a club like Sunderland or Sheffield Wednesday spends in L1, they becoming a little bit "smaller" and relative to them we become a little bit "bigger". 

Fair enough. I just don't see us getting promotion any time soon. Plus I also enjoy this league...so the bigger teams the better imo. And if we beat them even better. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

25 minutes ago, spudski said:

Fair enough. I just don't see us getting promotion any time soon. Plus I also enjoy this league...so the bigger teams the better imo. And if we beat them even better. 

I think I may have spotted the flaw in your plan..................................

[tin]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Forest will be an interesting one to watch over the summer if they don’t go up.  They are pretty tight for FFP even this season.  Once those loans return, will be interesting to see what happens to Johnson too.

Surely they’ll sell Johnson and be back within FFP? Plus they got the cash from that dirty deal with Olympiakos in January, didn’t they? 

If a club like Luton went up, it’d be crap for us because they’d come back down with parachute payments and have the potential to join the yo-yo clubs. Another smaller club leaving us in their wake. 

[Davefevs]

45 minutes ago, tin said:

Surely they’ll sell Johnson and be back within FFP? Plus they got the cash from that dirty deal with Olympiakos in January, didn’t they? 

If a club like Luton went up, it’d be crap for us because they’d come back down with parachute payments and have the potential to join the yo-yo clubs. Another smaller club leaving us in their wake. 

That’s kinda what I mean, they are running tight on ffp, so forced to sell, and not be able to recruit quite how they did this year.

[chinapig]

53 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s kinda what I mean, they are running tight on ffp, so forced to sell, and not be able to recruit quite how they did this year.

They would also lose Spence back to Boro (and from there to the PL probably) and Garner unless they can borrow him again.

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 07/05/2022 at 19:14, Midred said:

If Forest go up it'll be a championship desert in the east midlands. Birmingham and Sheffield will be the nearest.

Coventry are sort of Central/East Midlands aren’t they? Could be wrong ...

Edited May 9, 2022 by BS4 on Tour...

[Midred]

On 08/05/2022 at 12:11, spudski said:

Fair enough. I just don't see us getting promotion any time soon. Plus I also enjoy this league...so the bigger teams the better imo. And if we beat them even better. 

Reminds of the early 70's. Fairly comfortable, a few good seasons/ near misses and it was great going up to the First division but pre parachute payments many teams suffered if they came back down.

Not least us!