FBC Pod

[2015]

4 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Goals and assists is a lazy way of judging any player that isn't a forward, especially a box to box midfielder, but to each their own.

Not when he hasn't scored a goal for the club in 3 seasons. I'm sorry but for a midfielder of his talent, it's not great. Noted how I said 'talent' - that's me rating the lad, I just think he needs to add goals to his game, even if it's 3/4 a season which is totally reasonable for Massengo, in my opinion.

[Davefevs]

[Davefevs]

Total:

[NcnsBcfc]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Total:

Sorry Dave, who is this?

[KegCity]

9 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Not when he hasn't scored a goal for the club in 3 seasons. I'm sorry but for a midfielder of his talent, it's not great. Noted how I said 'talent' - that's me rating the lad, I just think he needs to add goals to his game, even if it's 3/4 a season which is totally reasonable for Massengo, in my opinion.

Yeah it would be great for him to have found the back of the net, equally its not his job and he's been a whisker away on numerous occasions. Personally I think he brings more than enough to the team to counteract not scoring 3/4 goals a season. A lot of people agree with you that he's flattered to deceive, I just think basing that on him not scoring is harsh and a bit of a lazy analysis.

Certainly needs to be more consistent, although that's hard when we're already a painfully inconsistent team. I think it'll help him playing in a better team wherever he ends up next season, somewhere where he can spend more time on the ball and have better support around him. I can only point to the games he started with Scott in midfield to show his quality. Either way, thats not what this thread is discussing so I'll leave it, just does irk me seeing him moaned at for not scoring when it 1. isn't his job and 2. ignores everything else he does well including carrying the ball into the box and creating chances.

[GrahamC]

30 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Sorry Dave, who is this?

Pretty sure it’s Korey Smith.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Pretty sure it’s Korey Smith.

Yep, just to show how important a player can be without measuring their success/ failure on goals and assists…or even when comparing players.

[Nogbad the Bad]

33 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Not when he hasn't scored a goal for the club in 3 seasons. I'm sorry but for a midfielder of his talent, it's not great. Noted how I said 'talent' - that's me rating the lad, I just think he needs to add goals to his game, even if it's 3/4 a season which is totally reasonable for Massengo, in my opinion.

I remember in one of Massengo's earliest appearances at AG he almost scored twice.

Both were from 1-2's initiated by him on the edge of the box, and then running forward to meet the return with headers.

One header went just wide, the other was well saved.

His natural game on arrival definitely looked to have goals in it, so I can only think the lack of them comes down to how he's been to play since - much less adventurously perhaps.

Certainly on the evidence of that early display it's remarkable he's never scored for us.

 

[headhunter]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

Who says Scott can only play in a 3 ? The front three have been so successful this season you (NP) can't contemplate breaking them up, which is why Scott has been getting a lot of 'Championship' minutes at wing back. Yes he is better infield but I suspect next season he will be vying with James and Williams for a starting place rather than displacing Weimann as a 10.

This is just an opinion ffs!  William fitness record is questionable and James's legs are already looking heavy. Do you see Scott in your 1st XI? If yes, where?

Nige won't break the front 3, I accept that.

[NcnsBcfc]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, just to show how important a player can be without measuring their success/ failure on goals and assists…or even when comparing players.

@Davefevs

You and I have spoken about Massengo; and I've taken on board your feelings on him as a player.

I understand your points around the type of European coaching that Massengo has had that leads to his style of play.

The issue for me, is that like say Nagy; Massengo has talent, but maybe it's not suited to either the English game; or potentially NP's way of doing things.

He's been here 3 seasons now, and played in close to 100 games for City. I thought after the Millwall second half, and Preston game that he might have turned a corner; but he seems to have regressed again.

You are completely right about goals/assists are not the only indicator of success. But it would be interesting to hear what fans think with regard to  what ways Massengo has actually developed/improved in those 3 years. Because, with Scott potentially moving back into CM next season, Massengo would only be 4th/5th choice for me in that position.

 

[Sir Geoff]

16 minutes ago, headhunter said:

This is just an opinion ffs!  William fitness record is questionable and James's legs are already looking heavy. Do you see Scott in your 1st XI? If yes, where?

Nige won't break the front 3, I accept that.

Ideally but not necessarily. Depends on summer recruitment in that area, otherwise as I said I can see him rotating more with James and Williams than displacing Weimann from the no.10 role.

If we weren't short at wing back this season I don't think he would have got as many minutes, playing a more central role.

[Davefevs]

24 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

@Davefevs

You and I have spoken about Massengo; and I've taken on board your feelings on him as a player.

I understand your points around the type of European coaching that Massengo has had that leads to his style of play.

The issue for me, is that like say Nagy; Massengo has talent, but maybe it's not suited to either the English game; or potentially NP's way of doing things.

He's been here 3 seasons now, and played in close to 100 games for City. I thought after the Millwall second half, and Preston game that he might have turned a corner; but he seems to have regressed again.

You are completely right about goals/assists are not the only indicator of success. But it would be interesting to hear what fans think with regard to  what ways Massengo has actually developed/improved in those 3 years. Because, with Scott potentially moving back into CM next season, Massengo would only be 4th/5th choice for me in that position.

 

I think there are so many facets of development.  Is developing your body to cope with the rigours of playing regularly at this level something we choose to include or ignore in evaluating his development.  For me, he’s pretty robust now.  But that might not be important to some.

Thats just an example.

Plus you’ll know I don’t generally think in terms of “best eleven”, “first choice / fifth choice” type stuff. My thinking is we have a squad of players, hopefully with a few exceptions at either end of the ratings scale, that are all pretty capable.  We can all pick our line-up for a match, but there are so many variables including form, injuries, opponents, etc, that what you go with one game might be very different the next.

On that last point, you might argue Massengo is 4th/5th choice, others might argue our best midfield this season was Scott and Massengo.

Your “regression” is my “inconsistent”.  

But it’s all about opinions.  Discussing those opinions in a sensible way is when OTIB is good.  Dull place otherwise

Edited May 11, 2022 by Davefevs

[daored]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I think there are so many facets of development.  Is developing your body to cope with the rigours of playing regularly at this level something we choose to include or ignore in evaluating his development.  For me, he’s pretty robust now.  But that might not be important to some.

Thats just an example.

Plus you’ll know I don’t generally think in terms of “best eleven”, “first choice / fifth choice” type stuff. My thinking is we have a squad of players, hopefully with a few exceptions at either end of the ratings scale, that are all pretty capable.  We can all pick our line-up for a match, but there are so many variables including form, injuries, opponents, etc, that what you go with one game might be very different the next.

On that last point, you might argue Massengo is 4th/5th choice, others might argue our best midfield this season was Scott and Massengo.

Your “regression” is my “inconsistent”.  

But it’s all about opinions.  Discussing those opinions in a sensible way is when OTIB is good.  Dull place otherwise

 

2 hours ago, NcnsBcfc said:

@Davefevs

You and I have spoken about Massengo; and I've taken on board your feelings on him as a player.

I understand your points around the type of European coaching that Massengo has had that leads to his style of play.

The issue for me, is that like say Nagy; Massengo has talent, but maybe it's not suited to either the English game; or potentially NP's way of doing things.

He's been here 3 seasons now, and played in close to 100 games for City. I thought after the Millwall second half, and Preston game that he might have turned a corner; but he seems to have regressed again.

You are completely right about goals/assists are not the only indicator of success. But it would be interesting to hear what fans think with regard to  what ways Massengo has actually developed/improved in those 3 years. Because, with Scott potentially moving back into CM next season, Massengo would only be 4th/5th choice for me in that position.

 

Glad this topic has turned into a debate about the  quality of a player with valid points from both sides.

So for me HNM does not give us goals or assists and for many a midfielder should, but what he does give us is energy and legs , especially when playing with the likes of James. He needs to improve on his understanding of when to hunt the ball and when to keep the team shape, but that has to come from coaching and to a certain extent being talked through a game by a senior pro. @GrahamCas you say he’s played close to 100 games so he should have a better understanding of then to chase and when to keep the shape. 
Agree with @Davefevswe simply can’t judge a midfielder by goals of assists, midfielders have different roles in the team. Oh how got a Marvin Elliott now who could do both!!

[2015]

Massengo and Korey Smith different midfielders imo. Smith much more of a Kalifa Cisse type, break up the play to allow others to show their attacking prowess.

Massengo has flair, has attacking prowess but hasn't scored a goal for us in nearly 100 games. I know he is a decent player, but that's poor for a player of his talents. I don't view him as a Korey Smith type midfielder, he is far more talented on the ball than what Smith was.

[NcnsBcfc]

17 minutes ago, daored said:

 

Glad this topic has turned into a debate about the  quality of a player with valid points from both sides.

So for me HNM does not give us goals or assists and for many a midfielder should, but what he does give us is energy and legs , especially when playing with the likes of James. He needs to improve on his understanding of when to hunt the ball and when to keep the team shape, but that has to come from coaching and to a certain extent being talked through a game by a senior pro. @GrahamCas you say he’s played close to 100 games so he should have a better understanding of then to chase and when to keep the shape. 
Agree with @Davefevswe simply can’t judge a midfielder by goals of assists, midfielders have different roles in the team. Oh how got a Marvin Elliott now who could do both!!

Good summary @daored

Is that my post you're referring to or Graham's around Massengo's understanding of the game?

[daored]

7 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Good summary @daored

Is that my post you're referring to or Graham's around Massengo's understanding of the game?

I think it’s yours !!! Giving credit to the wrong poster

[NcnsBcfc]

4 minutes ago, daored said:

I think it’s yours !!! Giving credit to the wrong poster

That makes more sense. I was trying to find Graham's post on Massengo .

[daored]

2 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

That makes more sense. I was trying to find Graham's post on Massengo .

He tends to agree with you anyway

[Davefevs]

37 minutes ago, daored said:

He tends to agree with you anyway

They’re the same person under different profiles.

Seriously though, I believe they sit near each other at AG.

1 hour ago, 2015 said:

Massengo and Korey Smith different midfielders imo. Smith much more of a Kalifa Cisse type, break up the play to allow others to show their attacking prowess.

Massengo has flair, has attacking prowess but hasn't scored a goal for us in nearly 100 games. I know he is a decent player, but that's poor for a player of his talents. I don't view him as a Korey Smith type midfielder, he is far more talented on the ball than what Smith was.

Yeah, different players in some ways, but similar in others. I only put up Korey’s stuff to show the effectiveness of a good player in a team unit.  He allowed Pack to sit, Brownhill to “lung-bust” between midfield and attack and Pato to float around Reid.  I actually think he had more attacking qualities but did what was needed for the team. We saw goals v Cheltenham and also the Man Utd and Sheff Wed games that he could break the lines too.

In some respects the Smith role of 17/18 could suit Massengo. Win it back, Get it, give it, be a pest, etc.  unfortunately he came into a midfield that was on a transition….Smith injured, Pack leaving.  As @NcnsBcfcwill know from our chats, I think Massengo suits a more possession heavy team.  He wants to break past his opponent through good technique, then give it to someone else, take up a better position, repeat, repeat.  He’s not really suited to counter-attacking style…and that’s one part of why I think we’ve seen inconsistency.

Of course he’s nowhere near the finished article but with Nige wanting to evolve the team to keep the ball better, that might help him…if he was to stay.  Which I don’t think he will, sadly.

[brady bunch]

2 hours ago, daored said:

Marvin Elliott now who could do both!!

now there is a midfielder we could all agree on, one of the best without doubt, had a bit of everything. whats he doing now? as there is paper talk of 38 year olds being signed, wonder if Marv could return....

[headhunter]

Bakinson has the physique and ability that Marvin Elliott had if only he applied himself. That said, Elliott's first season was his best he wasn't so good thereafter.

[daored]

1 minute ago, headhunter said:

Bakinson has the physique and ability that Marvin Elliott had if only he applied himself. That said, Elliott's first season was his best he wasn't so good thereafter.

Elliott’s problem were unfortunately injuries 

[chinapig]

2 hours ago, brady bunch said:

now there is a midfielder we could all agree on, one of the best without doubt, had a bit of everything. whats he doing now? as there is paper talk of 38 year olds being signed, wonder if Marv could return....

I loved Marv as much as the next person but let's face it he didn't have great ball control and wasn't a great passer. He had other great qualities that made up for that though.

Though he was never the same after he picked up that knee injury sadly.

[Waconda]

On 09/05/2022 at 14:43, headhunter said:

Thanks for the positive comments and those of others including @Tafkarmlf & @richwwtk

From the critics, these caught my eye ...

@View from the Dolman "reactionary, petulant, ill informed waffle" - 

@billywedlock "worst podcast by a country mile, talk total bollox & misinformation" 

@Numero Uno "it's a *hit podcast and the contributors need replacing"

Nothing stopping any of you coming on to give an alternative view - I'll do a pre-season piece with you as a trio if you like.

@Sir Geoff "leaving out Martin, breaking the front 3" - sounds mad in a single sentence but how do you accommodate Scott who can only play in a 3?

@David Brent "no listeners" - published data would suggest otherwise. Nothing I can find on the "irreverent" OSIB but comparing us with the "increasingly safe, nigh on official club pod" that is 3 Peaps, this tells me our following is growing:

Sample: match review podcasts:  the 5 up to Huddersfield at home in December vs. last 5 to this weekend: pre-Christmas 3 Peaps had 18% more downloads, for the more recent period FBC has 14% more downloads, a big swing.

It is all about opinions and, as I have said before Ian is a Piers Morgan type who will attract comments like that made by @Robboredin this current thread, "the negative shite". @NcnsBcfc & @Curr Avon provide a suitable antidote as many have commented.

Love doing it, maybe I should be looking at finding a sponsor if this growth continues!!!!

You will get Shadow Banned.

The Kool Aid drinking clique hate being confronted with a differing view.

[Davefevs]

“Confront” is an interesting choice of word.

”Hate” is another interesting choice too.

Otib is at its best when posters can debate / discuss from different sides of the fence in an amicable, respectful way.

[Lanterne Rouge]

On 11/05/2022 at 17:15, brady bunch said:

now there is a midfielder we could all agree on, one of the best without doubt, had a bit of everything. whats he doing now? as there is paper talk of 38 year olds being signed, wonder if Marv could return....

I think that`s what I like about Panutche Camara at Plymouth. He reminds me a lot of Marv.