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Silvio Dante

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12 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Don't be ridiculous.

FGR are an infinitely higher quality.

Is that the only metric? And is it true?

physicality will always be a difference so will always be hard to truly compare quality (I presume you mean likelihood of winning a head to head) nor does anyone really need to find that out

a club the size of Chelsea (as a combined entity as well) along with what the woman’s team compete for in their competitions means it absolutely would be a step down to take charge of FGR for a coach of her standing

 

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10 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

Is that the only metric? And is it true?

physicality will always be a difference so will always be hard to truly compare quality (I presume you mean likelihood of winning a head to head) nor does anyone really need to find that out

a club the size of Chelsea (as a combined entity as well) along with what the woman’s team compete for in their competitions means it absolutely would be a step down to take charge of FGR for a coach of her standing

 

FGR would win against Chelsea women quite easily

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41 minutes ago, 2015 said:

FGR would win against Chelsea women quite easily

Yes. But doesn’t mean Chelsea Women aren’t a good side, they are one of the best women teams around. 

They also, and just googling, look to have a higher average attendance than FGR. 3k vs 2.5k.

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1 minute ago, Selred said:

Yes. But doesn’t mean Chelsea Women aren’t a good side, they are one of the best women teams around. 

They also, and just googling, look to have a higher average attendance than FGR. 3k vs 2.5k.

Didn't say they were not a good side and that is also an impressive attendance

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5 minutes ago, Selred said:

So what is your point? Based on that Chelsea Women are a bigger club?

My point was Forest Green would beat Chelsea women, a poster above my original post tried claiming it would be a step down. I disagree with that. Just my opinion, makes the world go around doesn't it

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2 minutes ago, 2015 said:

My point was Forest Green would beat Chelsea women, a poster above my original post tried claiming it would be a step down. I disagree with that. Just my opinion, makes the world go around doesn't it

Fair. I don't think anyone would disagree with FGR would be Chelsea's Women. But also not sure why it's relevant. 

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I think with Hayes it’s more where she wants to go.

The fact is, there are very few mens teams that will risk the appointment of a female coach. She may have all the badges in the world and be a fantastic manager, but there is no way I can see that currently a premier league or championship club would put their head above the parapet in view of the perceived risk. And there is a difference at the very least budget/competition wise between the WSL and the mens version, before you get to debates over competition quality 
 

If a female coach is to make it in the mens game, they’ll need to be appointed by a disruptor. Vince is one of those. And if a female coach does well at FGR, it breaks down some barriers and may lead to higher level appointments. (And yes, that’s daft as just as every male coach isn’t the same nor is every female)

Chelsea women are undoubtedly bigger than FGR. But if Hayes wants to make it into the mens game, they’re probably her highest level way in until attitudes change - and that will only happen by a female coach succeeding in the mens game, so it’s very chicken and egg.

 

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It's relevant because this whole argument revolves around whether moving from Chelsea Women to FGR men is a step up or a step down, which is a valid discussion point and is not being helped by some people immediately jumping on others with accusations of sexism and bigotry for expressing an opinion on that point.

I for one hope she is given the opportunity and does a great job, for me the move would be a step down in terms of club history/acheivements etc but a step up in quality of players, speed and power of the game and so on.

 

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5 minutes ago, HiddenGem7 said:

It's relevant because this whole argument revolves around whether moving from Chelsea Women to FGR men is a step up or a step down, which is a valid discussion point and is not being helped by some people immediately jumping on others with accusations of sexism and bigotry for expressing an opinion on that point.

I for one hope she is given the opportunity and does a great job, for me the move would be a step down in terms of club history/acheivements etc but a step up in quality of players, speed and power of the game and so on.

 

You sum it up perfectly well

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8 minutes ago, HiddenGem7 said:

It's relevant because this whole argument revolves around whether moving from Chelsea Women to FGR men is a step up or a step down, which is a valid discussion point and is not being helped by some people immediately jumping on others with accusations of sexism and bigotry for expressing an opinion on that point.

I for one hope she is given the opportunity and does a great job, for me the move would be a step down in terms of club history/acheivements etc but a step up in quality of players, speed and power of the game and so on.

 

Of course it is relevant, but that sensible post won't work on here. Any criticism is straightaway linked to some sort of "ism" nowadays. Always the same people losing their shit and labelling people as well, they seem to think it helps their point when they start the name calling - just have a holier than thou attitude, and generally an angry, bullying mentality. 

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23 minutes ago, HiddenGem7 said:

It's relevant because this whole argument revolves around whether moving from Chelsea Women to FGR men is a step up or a step down, which is a valid discussion point and is not being helped by some people immediately jumping on others with accusations of sexism and bigotry for expressing an opinion on that point.

I for one hope she is given the opportunity and does a great job, for me the move would be a step down in terms of club history/acheivements etc but a step up in quality of players, speed and power of the game and so on.

 

Yep, some of same ones who caused me to decide to take a long break from this forum.

This time I'm just going to put the provocative bores on ignore and I suggest @Sheltons Army does the same.

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26 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think with Hayes it’s more where she wants to go.

The fact is, there are very few mens teams that will risk the appointment of a female coach. She may have all the badges in the world and be a fantastic manager, but there is no way I can see that currently a premier league or championship club would put their head above the parapet in view of the perceived risk. And there is a difference at the very least budget/competition wise between the WSL and the mens version, before you get to debates over competition quality 
 

If a female coach is to make it in the mens game, they’ll need to be appointed by a disruptor. Vince is one of those. And if a female coach does well at FGR, it breaks down some barriers and may lead to higher level appointments. (And yes, that’s daft as just as every male coach isn’t the same nor is every female)

Chelsea women are undoubtedly bigger than FGR. But if Hayes wants to make it into the mens game, they’re probably her highest level way in until attitudes change - and that will only happen by a female coach succeeding in the mens game, so it’s very chicken and egg.

 

I guess I see it in a similar way as how would a premier league manager cope in a lower league: without the luxury of such a squad of talented players, not such a big budget, and therefore have to make a team out of who is available to you. 

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2 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Yep, some of same ones who caused me to decide to take a long break from this forum.

This time I'm just going to put the provocative bores on ignore and I suggest @Sheltons Army does the same.

Bullies is what they are, looking to shame others at any given opportunity. There's about 20 of them who are like flies over **** as soon as you say something that doesn't suit their own world view. It's why I rarely ever visit the politics forum these days.

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2 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Bullies is what they are, looking to shame others at any given opportunity. There's about 20 of them who are like flies over **** as soon as you say something that doesn't suit their own world view. It's why I rarely ever visit the politics forum these days.

Yep, exactly right, because of them I had come to hate coming on this forum by the time I took my break.

Now I'm going to be liberal with the ignore button, even getting rid of BS2 Red, (my first ever 'ignore' and long overdue) improved my enjoyment of the forum immensely, now there are going to be a lot more.

Gave up on the rancid Politics forum completely long ago - a vile cesspit dominated last time I looked by a small like minded gang of extremely unpleasant posters.

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1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I guess I see it in a similar way as how would a premier league manager cope in a lower league: without the luxury of such a squad of talented players, not such a big budget, and therefore have to make a team out of who is available to you. 

Spot on Max , as usual

For me they managers I most respect are the ones who have performed decently and had ‘success’ or ‘relative success’ when faced with different levels , different challenges and different scenarios

We would all be intrigued to see what a Guardiola or a Klopp could do if handed the reigns at say Exeter next season (In fairness to Klopp he wasn’t ever handed a managerial silver spoon and worked his way up in German Football achieving success along the way) ,  and by the same token it would be interesting to see what Emma Hayes could achieve with Bristol City’s Women next season.


As I understand it (I stand to be corrected) Chelsea have the largest wage budget amongst the British sides (but not European wise)

Her achievements at Chelsea are good and she comes across as knowledgable and a well rounded person , and thus on the face of it , a very decent manager

But for people to turn their nose up , on her behalf , at the FGR job and what would be the challenge of managing and coaching a game with differences , is nonsense

Of course there is no reason why she should be pressured into moving into the men’s game , and if she enjoys what she does and is fulfilled by it , why should she

if she did , at somewhere like FGR , her coaching credentials and managerial abilities would be tested in the men’s game , and I’d wish her good luck , although I think she would find the challenge in men’s professional football somewhat different to the current one.

Tbf to her , I’ve never heard her make noises about moving into the men’s game or what she could achieve there ,it appears to be others of the ‘modernise the world generation’ , on her behalf doing so.

Its quite simple for me , she is doing a good job in women’s football , if she’s happy doing so , leave her alone to choose her career path

If she fancies the challenge of men’s football (Which is a different ‘game’ , and anyone who thinks it isn’t .....) , and the challenge of being the groundbreaker , then apply for jobs and give it a go. it would be fpvery interesting and I’d wish her good luck.

But this idea that a job like FGR should be beneath her , (Or tinpot as one poster laughably stated) and that she should be able to slide into a job at the top level of men’s football is for me, complete nonsense.

My view on any job is extremely simple , give it to the best person for that job , and one who’s proved their credentials to obtain it , whether they be male , female , white , black ,Asian , green , purple and blue 

Any decision should be based on merit

As I say the irony of all this is the placard wavers , who try and speak on her or others behalf , to earn some imaginary gold star

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Yep, some of same ones who caused me to decide to take a long break from this forum.

This time I'm just going to put the provocative bores on ignore and I suggest @Sheltons Army does the same.

Yes Nogs , thankyou

One in particular , who is like a little twisted boy , and has written vile insults , from his keyboard , at other posters ,  regularly and unabated since his appearance on here 

wouldn’t say ‘boo’ to those same people if he bumped into them at AG 

 

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9 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Spot on Max , as usual

For me they managers I most respect are the ones who have performed decently and had ‘success’ or ‘relative success’ when faced with different levels , different challenges and different scenarios

We would all be intrigued to see what a Guardiola or a Klopp could do if handed the reigns at say Exeter next season (In fairness to Klopp he wasn’t ever handed a managerial silver spoon and worked his way up in German Football achieving success along the way) ,  and by the same token it would be interesting to see what Emma Hayes could achieve with Bristol City’s Women next season.


As I understand it (I stand to be corrected) Chelsea have the largest wage budget amongst the British sides (but not European wise)

Her achievements at Chelsea are good and she comes across as knowledgable and a well rounded person , and thus on the face of it , a very decent manager

But for people to turn their nose up , on her behalf , at the FGR job and what would be the challenge of managing and coaching a game with differences , is nonsense

Of course there is no reason why she should be pressured into moving into the men’s game , and if she enjoys what she does and is fulfilled by it , why should she

if she did , at somewhere like FGR , her coaching credentials and managerial abilities would be tested in the men’s game , and I’d wish her good luck , although I think she would find the challenge in men’s professional football somewhat different to the current one.

Tbf to her , I’ve never heard her make noises about moving into the men’s game or what she could achieve there ,it appears to be others of the ‘modernise the world generation’ , on her behalf doing so.

Its quite simple for me , she is doing a good job in women’s football , if she’s happy doing so , leave her alone to choose her career path

If she fancies the challenge of men’s football (Which is a different ‘game’ , and anyone who thinks it isn’t .....) , and the challenge of being the groundbreaker , then apply for jobs and give it a go. it would be fpvery interesting and I’d wish her good luck.

But this idea that a job like FGR should be beneath her , (Or tinpot as one poster laughably stated) and that she should be able to slide into a job at the top level of men’s football is for me, complete nonsense.

My view on any job is extremely simple , give it to the best person for that job , and one who’s proved their credentials to obtain it , whether they be male , female , white , black ,Asian , green , purple and blue 

Any decision should be based on merit

As I say the irony of all this is the placard wavers , who try and speak on her or others behalf , to earn some imaginary gold star

 

 

I don’t recall the AFC Wimbledon rumours in detail (last summer?), but I thought it was Hayes that kind of poo-poohed it, saying the level was beneath her.  If the poo-poohing was done on her behalf, that’s very different.  But if it was her, then it will limit her opportunities of a job in the men’s game if that’s where she wants to test herself.

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42 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I guess I see it in a similar way as how would a premier league manager cope in a lower league: without the luxury of such a squad of talented players, not such a big budget, and therefore have to make a team out of who is available to you. 

100%

For me, It'll be interesting to see how Mark Hughes gets on at Bradford City next season.

He's in a group of ex PL managers over the last 20 years, that have chosen not to manage at a lower level.

His rationale is that he can't get a job higher up, and after 4 years out of a job; this is perhaps a way back in for him. Fair play to him for trying it at least.

I think we all know how it's going to end up though. With no doubt MH taking a job in India or Thailand or somewhere like that is the future.

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50 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Bullies is what they are, looking to shame others at any given opportunity. There's about 20 of them who are like flies over **** as soon as you say something that doesn't suit their own world view. It's why I rarely ever visit the politics forum these days.

Same here… 

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Just now, Sheltons Army said:

Yes Nogs , thankyou

One in particular , who is like a little twisted boy , and has written vile insults , from his keyboard , at other posters ,  regularly and unabated since his appearance on here 

wouldn’t say ‘boo’ to those same people if he bumped into them at AG 

 

If you met them outside the forum you'd know within a few minutes that talking to them was an irksome waste of time, and make a point of avoiding them in future.

Don't give them the time of day on here either - use the ignore button and you'll never see or hear from them again.

Believe me, it's a great relief and makes all the difference to enjoying this forum rather than being dragged into endless conflict by replying to their nauseous posts.

P.S. Having said that, it looks like the ignore button isn't working at the moment. :doh: @phantom ?

So the answer until it works again ? is just immediately scroll on whenever you see their names.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t recall the AFC Wimbledon rumours in detail (last summer?), but I thought it was Hayes that kind of poo-poohed it, saying the level was beneath her.  If the poo-poohing was done on her behalf, that’s very different.  But if it was her, then it will limit her opportunities of a job in the men’s game if that’s where she wants to test herself.

Thanks Dave - didn’t realise that

Why people have to feel the need to sell or push , or even compare the women’s game to themen’s game is beyond me , and IMO extremely naive 

There are many who enjoy the women’s game , and that’s great - I’ve tried it but I’m afraid it doesn’t keep my attention or interest , although it’s clear that standards and levels in the women’s game has improved dramatically in recent years and will continue to attract fans and fanbases 

If she , or any other manager / coach , male or female , believe they are good , then they should have no fear of taking a job like FGR , as the job they do there should , if their self belief is justified , enhance their CV further , rather than damage it

Its no different from someone like Lee Johnson in his current situation - does he chase jobs in Championship or big Clubs in L1 , or is he prepared to , for example go for the FGR job , Backing his abilities , with a view to doing a good job there that will bolster his CV , and his experience to move his trajectory upwards

Any call that Emma Hayes has earnt the right to a big job in men’s football because she’s had success with Chelsea Ladies is IMO ridiculous

There's thousands of managers in amateur football who have had sustained and continued success at various levels of local or amateur football , 

Does that mean they can or could manage successfully at top amateur level , let alone at pro level ... possibly .... but like everything in life , there are levels , and I’d suggest those who could would be a very small minority

Even at men’s pro level there are a never ending list of managers who have found their ceiling within the levels , albeit very good levels - As much as I respected , admired , and liked Gary Johnson I never saw him as a likely Premier League Manager

 

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1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think with Hayes it’s more where she wants to go.

The fact is, there are very few mens teams that will risk the appointment of a female coach. She may have all the badges in the world and be a fantastic manager, but there is no way I can see that currently a premier league or championship club would put their head above the parapet in view of the perceived risk. And there is a difference at the very least budget/competition wise between the WSL and the mens version, before you get to debates over competition quality 
 

If a female coach is to make it in the mens game, they’ll need to be appointed by a disruptor. Vince is one of those. And if a female coach does well at FGR, it breaks down some barriers and may lead to higher level appointments. (And yes, that’s daft as just as every male coach isn’t the same nor is every female)

Chelsea women are undoubtedly bigger than FGR. But if Hayes wants to make it into the mens game, they’re probably her highest level way in until attitudes change - and that will only happen by a female coach succeeding in the mens game, so it’s very chicken and egg.

 

I think there will be a time when we start to see female coaches appointed to the coaching staff at football teams. It's certainly starting to happen in the NFL.

Through those introductions, maybe the opportunities will come to be head coach at a later stage. This current policy of bringing Ex-Pl players into management as soon as possible *Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney as examples) must be grating for lower league managers who have succeeded at their level, but don't have the same profile.

For someone like Hayes, who is at the top of the women's game, she would have to see herself as some sort of trailblazer for women's rights to take a job at L1/L2. Professionally I don't see the attraction for her, other than to say "Look Women can achieve just as much as men".

She's already competing against male mangers both domestically, and in Europe in the Women's game. To have to prove that in the men's game as well could be seen as being a bit misogynist. 

 

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28 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Spot on Max , as usual

For me they managers I most respect are the ones who have performed decently and had ‘success’ or ‘relative success’ when faced with different levels , different challenges and different scenarios

We would all be intrigued to see what a Guardiola or a Klopp could do if handed the reigns at say Exeter next season (In fairness to Klopp he wasn’t ever handed a managerial silver spoon and worked his way up in German Football achieving success along the way) ,  and by the same token it would be interesting to see what Emma Hayes could achieve with Bristol City’s Women next season.


As I understand it (I stand to be corrected) Chelsea have the largest wage budget amongst the British sides (but not European wise)

Her achievements at Chelsea are good and she comes across as knowledgable and a well rounded person , and thus on the face of it , a very decent manager

But for people to turn their nose up , on her behalf , at the FGR job and what would be the challenge of managing and coaching a game with differences , is nonsense

Of course there is no reason why she should be pressured into moving into the men’s game , and if she enjoys what she does and is fulfilled by it , why should she

if she did , at somewhere like FGR , her coaching credentials and managerial abilities would be tested in the men’s game , and I’d wish her good luck , although I think she would find the challenge in men’s professional football somewhat different to the current one.

Tbf to her , I’ve never heard her make noises about moving into the men’s game or what she could achieve there ,it appears to be others of the ‘modernise the world generation’ , on her behalf doing so.

Its quite simple for me , she is doing a good job in women’s football , if she’s happy doing so , leave her alone to choose her career path

If she fancies the challenge of men’s football (Which is a different ‘game’ , and anyone who thinks it isn’t .....) , and the challenge of being the groundbreaker , then apply for jobs and give it a go. it would be fpvery interesting and I’d wish her good luck.

But this idea that a job like FGR should be beneath her , (Or tinpot as one poster laughably stated) and that she should be able to slide into a job at the top level of men’s football is for me, complete nonsense.

My view on any job is extremely simple , give it to the best person for that job , and one who’s proved their credentials to obtain it , whether they be male , female , white , black ,Asian , green , purple and blue 

Any decision should be based on merit

As I say the irony of all this is the placard wavers , who try and speak on her or others behalf , to earn some imaginary gold star

 

 

That's why I have more respect for Rooney, than Lampard. 

I don't know enough about who is out there, but I'm sure there are plenty of highly respected women managers/coaches in the game who might be interested. She'd have to be tough to withstand the pressures of being that 'groundbreaker' but I'm they would rise to the challenge.

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22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t recall the AFC Wimbledon rumours in detail (last summer?), but I thought it was Hayes that kind of poo-poohed it, saying the level was beneath her.  If the poo-poohing was done on her behalf, that’s very different.  But if it was her, then it will limit her opportunities of a job in the men’s game if that’s where she wants to test herself.

I've got the feeling that it was…I seem to remember the discussion on here at the time.

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5 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

That's why I have more respect for Rooney, than Lampard. 

I don't know enough about who is out there, but I'm sure there are plenty of highly respected women managers/coaches in the game who might be interested. She'd have to be tough to withstand the pressures of being that 'groundbreaker' but I'm they would rise to the challenge.

You are spot on about Rooney Max.

I never liked his life choices, and thought he would crash; and burn at Derby. But fair play to him, he has proved me wrong and stuck with them through some terrible times.

100% more respect for him now that say 18 months ago.

As for Lampard, he's just a bluffer isn't he? That season at Derby with Wilson, Mount & Tomori. Calling in all the favours from his old club, and then jumping into the Chelsea job based on what???

Terrible appointment for Everton as well given their predicament at the time. He'll be gone in 6 months anyhow. 

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2 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

You are spot on about Rooney Max.

I never liked his life choices, and thought he would crash; and burn at Derby. But fair play to him, he has proved me wrong and stuck with them through some terrible times.

100% more respect for him now that say 18 months ago.

As for Lampard, he's just a bluffer isn't he? That season at Derby with Wilson, Mount & Tomori. Calling in all the favours from his old club, and then jumping into the Chelsea job based on what???

Terrible appointment for Everton as well given their predicament at the time. He'll be gone in 6 months anyhow. 

I don't really know much about Lampard but feel like he has been groomed by the elite for the more glamorous jobs. He might be a capable manager but won't know until he's worked in a more challenging situation. 

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19 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

P.S. Having said that, it looks like the ignore button isn't working at the moment. :doh: @phantom ?

So the answer until it works again ? is just immediately scroll on whenever you see their names.

I believe @TomF is working on something behind the scenes at the moment

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