Red-Robbo Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 23 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: So it's a crime not to be a glory hunter, To enjoy the games and support your country doesn't make you a "glory hunter". It's true, I'm not about to rush out and get a season card for BCFC Women, but I do have more respect for the ladies' game and will be more likely to watch the odd televised game in future. Not because I've clambered on any bandwagon, but just because I enjoyed the matches I watched. As others have said, the technical improvement in recent years has been amazing. I'll doubtless remain largely a watcher of the men's game, but I won't be as quick to dismiss the women's version. It isn't the same as men's matches, but these Euros have proved to me that they can be a decent watch. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: Ah so now it's "British Professional men's club" Anymore goalposts you would like to move to win your argument? It’s not an argument PSR - it’s a question. How many British professional mens clubs have a female manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 55 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: Football is no exception and as with any business if the directors are of an opinion the operation may no longer be self funding then they must immediately takes steps to mitigate others losers by winding up the company. Unlike many ungratefuls on here I remind why we've everything for which to thank Mr Lansdown as without his beneficence City would already be history. City cover this by having SL convert loan to stock. No longer club loses they'll be SL's if crystalized. In football's case (men only) there are active controls (of which City may shortly fall foul,) that mandate long term sustainability and removal of the contrivance of ownership. The other difference between men's and women's football is, I suggest, that there are critical mass income streams within the men's game (and likely always will be, though not supportive of present rates of spend,) which may sustain the men's side but which are unlikely to materialise within the woman's game. I could be wrong, but history doesn't suggest I will be. Those active controls (which are often sidestepped) haven't existed in the mens game for very long. There are no income streams in mens football that womens football doesn't/can't have. Womens football will probably always be smaller and with less money, but that doesn't make it worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 I thought the whole thing was a breath of fresh air...how all football should be. From the coverage, the fans having fun in a civil way, all inclusive, how the teams played in a skillful and passionate way. The players played and acted how I would want a team to act and perform. If men's football and crowds were like that, I'd be over the moon. It is after all... entertainment. It would be nice if woman's football became as popular as men's...but was able to keep the same ethos and for want of a better word ... environment. Obviously woman's football wants to grow financially and have all the benefits of men's football. The sad thing is...the more it does, the less entertaining it will become imo. Some sports reach a pinnacle where they are perfect in standard and entertainment. It's like there should be a mathematical equation for it. It just feels right. In the same way I feel about F1, Tennis, Football and a few other sports...where professionalism versus entertainment came to point that was perfect...and now it's surpassed that point in a negative entertainment value. If that makes sense... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 53 minutes ago, Robbored said: It’s not an argument PSR - it’s a question. How many British professional mens clubs have a female manager? You said 'any level'. Does football not exist outside Britain? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 21 minutes ago, spudski said: I thought the whole thing was a breath of fresh air...how all football should be. From the coverage, the fans having fun in a civil way, all inclusive, how the teams played in a skillful and passionate way. The players played and acted how I would want a team to act and perform. If men's football and crowds were like that, I'd be over the moon. It is after all... entertainment. It would be nice if woman's football became as popular as men's...but was able to keep the same ethos and for want of a better word ... environment. Obviously woman's football wants to grow financially and have all the benefits of men's football. The sad thing is...the more it does, the less entertaining it will become imo. Not sure why you think that Spudski. I know that some consider the various broadcasters money flooding the game to be a negative but I don’t see it like that at all. I really enjoy watching top quality football played by fantastically talented players in the PL which is considered to be the best league in Europe if not the world. Top class entertainment imo and if the woman’s game goes the same way then so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, Robbored said: Not sure why you think that Spudski. I know that some consider the various broadcasters money flooding the game to be a negative but I don’t see it like that at all. I really enjoy watching top quality football played by fantastically talented players in the PL which is considered to be the best league in Europe if not the world. Top class entertainment imo and if the woman’s game goes the same way then so be it. Your comments don't surprise me RR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, spudski said: Your comments don't surprise me RR. Hmm…… I’m surprised that you think that watching top level players showing theirs skills isn’t providing excellent entertainment. Top level players cost serious money and TV broadcasters cough up much of the PL clubs income. To me that’s a positive that we fans get the benefit to watch these players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, Robbored said: Hmm…… I’m surprised that you think that watching top level players showing theirs skills isn’t providing excellent entertainment. Top level players cost serious money and TV broadcasters cough up much of the PL clubs income. To me that’s a positive that we fans get the benefit to watch these players. Entertainment is often at its highest when mistakes occur. When it's not perfect. Imo...some sports have become too perfect. Defence nullifying attack. Technology over human error. Perfect defence on football against perfect offense. What's the end result. A stalemate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, Robbored said: Hmm…… I’m surprised that you think that watching top level players showing theirs skills isn’t providing excellent entertainment. Top level players cost serious money and TV broadcasters cough up much of the PL clubs income. To me that’s a positive that we fans get the benefit to watch these players. I think the point being made is whilst we all appreciate the skill levels of the players many people don't really want to see the ridiculous diving (imagine if your team were on the end of a penalty decision where the player goes down three steps after contact), the surrounding the referee, the waving of imaginary yellow cards, the shagging each other senseless at corners, the fake injuries, the trying to get fellow professionals sent off, the overt goading of opposition fans after you score and then moaning like a right bastard when one lobs a bottle of water at you etc. etc. It's a pretty straightforward point to understand and it would be interesting if anyone can offer a counter opinion that suggests these incidents ADD to the entertainment value............ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: I think the point being made is whilst we all appreciate the skill levels of the players many people don't really want to see the ridiculous diving (imagine if your team were on the end of a penalty decision where the player goes down three steps after contact), the surrounding the referee, the waving of imaginary yellow cards, the shagging each other senseless at corners, the fake injuries, the trying to get fellow professionals sent off, the overt goading of opposition fans after you score and then moaning like a right bastard when one lobs a bottle of water at you etc. etc. It's a pretty straightforward point to understand and it would be interesting if anyone can offer a counter opinion that suggests these incidents ADD to the entertainment value............ It’s always gone on Spudski - you may remember the likes of Rodney Marsh and Franny Lee diving way back in the 70s. That said it’s become far worse since the drip, drip introduction of Latino’s, Spanish and other European players. Thats been the main reason we see such dreadful antics. Simeone is one perfect example. If he ever managed in the PL most of his players would get sent off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanburyRed Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Robbored said: It’s not an argument PSR - it’s a question. How many British professional mens clubs have a female manager? And you certainly didn't have the word 'British' in your original question.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EstoniaTallinnRed Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 18 hours ago, Midred said: Puts some of our prima donna men to shame! If you can have male prima donnas! Yes you're right, the highest paid women's pro footballer is on around 330,000 euros a year and not a month as a lot of our prima donna Premier league players are on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EstoniaTallinnRed Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 17 hours ago, Antman said: When kelly poked the winner in, and the TV replayed her running in slow mo waving her shirt with everything moving in every direction My wife just said..."that'll go viral' Did she get a yellow card for that, didn't see it shown on the screen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 15 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said: Yes you're right, the highest paid women's pro footballer is on around 330,000 euros a year and not a month as a lot of our prima donna Premier league players are on. It's a very simple argument though - when these women have 50K watching them every week their remuneration will increase in line........unfortunately average crowds in the WSL are circa 2-3K. That's the market talking whether people like it or not. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EstoniaTallinnRed Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 Just now, Numero Uno said: It's a very simple argument though - when these women have 50K watching them every week their remuneration will increase in line........unfortunately average crowds in the WSL are circa 2-3K. That's the market talking whether people like it or not. Yes I understand that, I think the attendances will improve after this showing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: It's a very simple argument though - when these women have 50K watching them every week their remuneration will increase in line........unfortunately average crowds in the WSL are circa 2-3K. That's the market talking whether people like it or not. It’s not even the attendances - when the TV companies are prepared to pay up to 10m PER GAME, then the wages will increase 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 7 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said: Did she get a yellow card for that, didn't see it shown on the screen? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 3 hours ago, BTRFTG said: So it's a crime not to be a glory hunter, to not feel obligated to follow the masses. I've done or said nothing to stop you and others enjoying your moment of glory (sic). I even offered my own congratulations to the Lionesses. All I did was highlight the folly of comparing the women's game to the men's. And that's now a crime? What, under your totalitarianism, would you have me do to mark the occasion? I said attend, not watch.... No one said anything about crime. Those are your words. Your inability to find joy in great collective moments of national sporting achievement doesn’t make you a criminal. It just makes you seem a bit boring. But don’t worry, they won’t put you in prison for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 Based on the celebrations of the womens team, if Southgates team manage to win the world cup i predict the entire country will be on the piss for an entire month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 51 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said: Based on the celebrations of the womens team, if Southgates team manage to win the world cup i predict the entire country will be on the piss for an entire month. Given that it’ll be Xmas as well, I think you’re right! Really enjoyed that game, thought it was very physical and that young German centre mid probably could have been sent off in another game (should have been booked way before she was) Game management at the end was fantastic too. I don’t know why people have to compare to men, just take it for what it is and that was a very good performance and throughly enjoyable. Congrats girls 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted August 1, 2022 Author Admin Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 How it all began 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 2 hours ago, phantom said: 2 hours ago, phantom said: How it all began My Mum asked the same of me. "Alan is only 9 and can't fathom why he can't play football". Unfortunately, in my case the simple answer is that I was just rubbish! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted August 2, 2022 Report Share Posted August 2, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said: The England Ladies have always been decent, the professionalisation of the game has made them even better. What the FA need to do is stay careful and remember that Women's football isn't Men's football and there are subtle differences and recognise that putting Phil Neville in charge was stupid, and ridiculous (not only was he not a very good men's football manager he didn't understand the women's game either), he completely derailed their world cup, Sarina Wiegman has been amazing for the women, its important I think for Women's football for the powers at be to remember not to try and not turn the Womans game into the Mens game. I don't like it when people make direct comparisons with men's football its silly as though the rules are the same, the game is different, what you risk by doing this is creating the perception that the women's game isn't as good as the men's game because its not as quick or the shots are not as powerful, but on the flipside the women get more time on the ball, more dribbling and the range and types of shots as a result are quite often more entertaining. The skills are the same they are just employed differently due to differing levels of physique and its important not to loose that perspective in some daft drive to draw direct comparisons between the genders. I really like watching the ladies games from time to time, but the key thing is time, supporters only have so much time and money so the women's game needs to attract its own new fan base to be sustainable, and we shouldn't extrapolate the fans watching this as a 1:1 increase in the grassroots game as it wont be, there will be some who watch both but for the most part its will need a whole new fanbase and it might be in my view a great idea to make the women's away games for example PPV subscription for a period of time, as I'm not sure there would be the same amount of away travel for games. It would get money into the game and be a more flexible method of consumption for a new fanbase. This is spot on tbh. The women need to attract their own regular fanbase to watch their own brand of football. That’s how the numbers will increase from National League attendance levels. Speaking from a personal view I have family and work commitments that allow me to watch BCFC but if you then add in going to BCFC Women’s games it’s just not viable for me and I’m sure many others (the vast majority imo) to commit the time and money to do both. My money, my choice is to watch Mens football. That’s an inconvenient issue that cannot be ignored and the BBC banging a drum won’t change it. The other huge advantage men’s football in this country has is the pyramid system that has built up over a hundred years. Tens if not hundreds of thousands of blokes play at all levels from EPL to barely able to pass a ball 25 yards level on a Saturday and Sunday whereas everything being spoken of womens football is about kids and elite level, nothing in between. That will need sorting out big time, if the interest is there that is, for the game to grow to even 25% of the mens game in the long term. If the powers that be just sit back and EXPECT the game to grow based on a fantastic tournament win for England which we all enjoyed they will be disappointed. Sponsorship, investment and attendance will always be based on demand and interest in the product being put out there ultimately. Edited August 2, 2022 by Numero Uno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzos Only Goal Posted August 2, 2022 Report Share Posted August 2, 2022 54 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: If the powers that be just sit back and EXPECT the game to grow based on a fantastic tournament win for England which we all enjoyed they will be disappointed. Sponsorship, investment and attendance will always be based on demand and interest in the product being put out there ultimately. We have seen a lot of references to sponsorship, but most of those are going to feed directly into the very top level, the best players and the most televised teams. What I find a little sad about the coverage, is I think they are missing the point when they covered for example the Blackburn youth setup, yes its produced 3 of the England team, but those players just got hoovered up by bigger teams who didn't necessarily have the same commitment to women's football, but will benefit from the revenue while Blackburn will still be mostly a small affair and end up as a feeder team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted August 2, 2022 Report Share Posted August 2, 2022 16 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said: We have seen a lot of references to sponsorship, but most of those are going to feed directly into the very top level, the best players and the most televised teams. What I find a little sad about the coverage, is I think they are missing the point when they covered for example the Blackburn youth setup, yes its produced 3 of the England team, but those players just got hoovered up by bigger teams who didn't necessarily have the same commitment to women's football, but will benefit from the revenue while Blackburn will still be mostly a small affair and end up as a feeder team. This is the danger. Lots of rhetoric flying around with no real solutions. If this tournament is not built upon properly properly the game will be a largely elite sport for years to come. The only “solution” the head of the Women’s game has advanced is for Premier League clubs to get involved which, as we all know, means the game will be built from the top down rather than bottom up and controlled by a few based on commercial returns and the grass roots will get trampled all over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted August 2, 2022 Report Share Posted August 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: This is the danger. Lots of rhetoric flying around with no real solutions. If this tournament is not built upon properly properly the game will be a largely elite sport for years to come. The only “solution” the head of the Women’s game has advanced is for Premier League clubs to get involved which, as we all know, means the game will be built from the top down rather than bottom up and controlled by a few based on commercial returns and the grass roots will get trampled all over. Football for females is not an elite sport. Far more females play football at grass roots level than elite level. Female football isnt built from the top down. A girl will start out in grass roots football and then if she is good enough will play and train at a regional development centre, her local County FA and then she might if exceptional attract the interest of a pro club. That is the FA and its regional FA's controlling football. The top the pro clubs control the top = WSL league teams look after what is a small % of football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzos Only Goal Posted August 2, 2022 Report Share Posted August 2, 2022 16 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Football for females is not an elite sport. Far more females play football at grass roots level than elite level. Female football isnt built from the top down. A girl will start out in grass roots football and then if she is good enough will play and train at a regional development centre, her local County FA and then she might if exceptional attract the interest of a pro club. That is the FA and its regional FA's controlling football. The top the pro clubs control the top = WSL league teams look after what is a small % of football. That's just how the pyramid works. But the cash needs to filter down from the elite tiers. To build a broader set of professional clubs and players in professional teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted August 2, 2022 Report Share Posted August 2, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said: That's just how the pyramid works. But the cash needs to filter down from the elite tiers. To build a broader set of professional clubs and players in professional teams. Its not a just how. Its the FA reacting to the challenges of female football. The structure is very different to the male game and has to be. You appear there to want cash to build professional clubs,which would take money away from grass rooots football and focus on elites. Edited August 2, 2022 by Cowshed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzos Only Goal Posted August 2, 2022 Report Share Posted August 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Its not a just how. Its the FA reacting to the challenges of female football. The structure is very different to the male game and has to be. You appear there to want cash to build professional clubs,which would take money away from grass rooots football and focus on elites. You can do both if you want to expand the women's game, there has to be a realisation that even with the current professionalisation of the women's game wages are still small, and in order to become a professional athlete you need to give up your day job and have enough money to do it. You have to get more money into at least the top 3 tiers of women's football to enable the professional game to grow, and the grass roots to have a realistic prospect of a career football even if its not the top top tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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