Billy Sharp Assaulted

[Cowshed]

19 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I read an article, can't remember where from, that it's coke usage fuelling fans now rather than booze. When i was young, coke use was no way prevalent - it seems it is now. Is that right?

Cocaine has replaced amphetamines as the drug of choice to use with alcohol. Cocaine use has increased v decreasing amphetamines consumption over decades. Alcohol use has decreased across the populace.

Football fans in C2 groups upwards x age groups display obvious themes in drinking and drug usage v the populace. 

Is cocaine responsible for violence? Todays football crowds were far more violent in the past. 

There are socio economic factors there. 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Cowshed

[weepywall]

15 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I read an article, can't remember where from, that it's coke usage fuelling fans now rather than booze. When i was young, coke use was no way prevalent - it seems it is now. Is that right?

Massively so, plenty of it going on at AG and pubs in the area and certainly at the higher profile away games when a fair few travel, part of the day out for many these days.

[sugarwray]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Yeah I think so too. But I don’t understand the glass houses bit. Are we not allowed to pile into this fan just because we have had fans do it as well?

This incident after a play off win comes to mind. Unacceptable seems to be the consensus verdict from the posters, whoever is involved.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1019536/FA-launch-probe-Warnock-attacked-Bristol-City-fans-storm-pitch-following-play-win-Palace.html

 

[Clevedon Red]

23 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I read an article, can't remember where from, that it's coke usage fuelling fans now rather than booze. When i was young, coke use was no way prevalent - it seems it is now. Is that right?

Looking at the guy who attacked Sharp it was more fuelled by McDonalds than coke…

[KegCity]

3 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Cocaine has replaced amphetamines as the drug of choice to use with alcohol. Cocaine use has increased v decreasing amphetamines consumption over decades. Alcohol use has decreased across the populace.

Football fans in C2 groups upwards x age groups display obvious themes in drinking and drug usage v the populace. 

Is cocaine responsible for violence? Todays football crowds were far more violent in the past. 

There are socio economic factors there. 

 

It's part of a big day out for many, comes down to socio economic factors as you mention which are too layered to go into on here.

I personally don't have an issue with it, I know people who use it and don't turn into thugs, however an idiot with increased energy is a more dangerous idiot. What many don't understand is that demand is always going to be there like it or not, so dealing with the societal factors that make people want to go to football and cause trouble is a far better use of time and resources than throwing police at a situation they will never be able to control.

[spudski]

25 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Because its not a perfect world we manage risks. Players in general do not have to deal with it. There are legal punishements that prevent offending = Most people do not act in a similar manner.

You don't get fans celebrating, or feral. Feral fans in hundreds .. It no longer happens in stadiums. Thats the past. There are now very small numbers of problematic supporters.  

There are risks to manage. That is the proactive. Assaults on players/Managers are a rare occurence. This assault, the assailant ran up the touch line to the dug outs. There is a control measure there. Safety officers and the Police know fans will come on the pitch, its inevitable, so a control measure could be funnelling fans away from the dug outs, tunnels, or further allow pitch celebrations after the players have left the pitch, and are in a area where risk can be better managed. 

The system is broken ... Uneven at best. Football came from  a dark place where pitched battles happened at stadiums were weekly events. Systems very much work.  

We can agree to disagree...it is a 'general' occurance where a minority act feral and anti social. When confined as a group together, it magnifies the situation.

Unfortunately the legal punishments you speak of aren't deterring enough people. 

If you can't stop fans getting over boarding, you have no chance of funneling. They will find a way...after all there is four sides to a football pitch.

I saw more self policing back in the ' dark days'. Our ' own' would deal with the dick heads. 

It's not just the young ens...it grown men in their 40s and 50s acting like complete knob ends that gets me. 

I get the social unrest of a anarchic youth back in the 70s and 80s. It was a reaction to the day.

Now it's more often than not, just a bunch of fat old men trying to recreate something they did when they were young. It's pretty sad to observe.

At football and in towns when out.

Whatever happened to self awareness and control...now it seems people have to be told what to do

[2015]

1 minute ago, KegCity said:

It's part of a big day out for many, comes down to socio economic factors as you mention which are too layered to go into on here.

I personally don't have an issue with it, I know people who use it and don't turn into thugs, however an idiot with increased energy is a more dangerous idiot. What many don't understand is that demand is always going to be there like it or not, so dealing with the societal factors that make people want to go to football and cause trouble is a far better use of time and resources than throwing police at a situation they will never be able to control.

How would you deal with the societal factors?

[Sheltons Army]

5 minutes ago, weepywall said:

Massively so, plenty of it going on at AG and pubs in the area and certainly at the higher profile away games when a fair few travel, part of the day out for many these days.

And has been for 10-15 yrs

The use of cocaine as a ‘ recreational drug ‘across all classes is something that rarely attracts attention in news

I think if the average law abiding man / woman knew the extent - they would be severely shocked.

its been very relevant in football (fans) for over a decade 

[KegCity]

14 minutes ago, 2015 said:

How would you deal with the societal factors?

Think you could write a thesis on it to be honest, I'd have liked to have looked at it as part of my degree but ended up going in another direction. Drug use on the whole is on the rise, not just amongst football fans. Having done no proper research I would imagine austerity policies, increased inequalities and the pandemic have all led to more and more people wanting an escape from normal life, so want to let off steam.

Investing in communities etc would help so that people are more content in their daily lives, personally I back legalisation as it would instantly cripple organised crime across the country that relies on the drug trade to fund other crime. Studies have shown its actually reduced drug use in countries such as Portugal, but again having done no research I can't tie myself to a solution. Not looking to open that debate as it's: off topic, incredibly nuanced and I simply don't know enough to have an informed discussion about it without going through proper studies of it.

11 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

And has been for 10-15 yrs

The use of cocaine as a ‘ recreational drug ‘across all classes is something that rarely attracts attention in news

I think if the average law abiding man / woman knew the extent - they would be severely shocked.

its been very relevant in football (fans) for over a decade 

https://twitter.com/BBCArchive/status/826112912074952706?s=20&t=qeZea0DCQjPUkDhWZWgQfQ

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by KegCity
Tweet didn't embed

[phantom]

27 minutes ago, Super said:

Forest fans have set up a just giving page with all donations to Billy Sharp's charity. Fair play.

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/zoe-potts-3

 

[Cowshed]

Just now, spudski said:

We can agree to disagree...it is a 'general' occurance where a minority act feral and anti social. When confined as a group together, it magnifies the situation.

Unfortunately the legal punishments you speak of aren't deterring enough people. 

If you can't stop fans getting over boarding, you have no chance of funneling. They will find a way...after all there is four sides to a football pitch.

I saw more self policing back in the ' dark days'. Our ' own' would deal with the dick heads. 

It's not just the young ens...it grown men in their 40s and 50s acting like complete knob ends that gets me. 

I get the social unrest of a anarchic youth back in the 70s and 80s. It was a reaction to the day.

Now it's more often than not, just a bunch of fat old men trying to recreate something they did when they were young. It's pretty sad to observe.

At football and in towns when out.

Whatever happened to self awareness and control...now it seems people have to be told what to do

Then that feral tiny minority would not be a binary and or. Football fans are divergent. 

Legal punishments have helped to cut massively offending at football. We can look at football as then and now. Its silly to state that legal punishments that are greatly elevated (discriminatory?) for football are inadequate as a means of deterrent. 

No chance? Placing Police in areas that are more at risk would be more productive than what occurred last night. In a time of high emotion when the Police and safety officers will know using historical norms, fans will come onto the pitch, a fan ran into the dugout area which was unguarded by Police or Stewards. The risk Management there is a disgrace, leading to a induvial behaving disgracefully. 

Its not just the ... Same as it was in the past but the numbers have decreased, an ever present to be Managed.   

What happened to self-awareness .. Football crowds in the 70's, 80's, 90's and were so much more aware!! Football crowds in stadiums have become far less emotional, less responsive, less unpredictable, and far less violent.  

There were nearly 30,000 at Forest. One individual doesn't define the crowd. 

[Monkeh]

51 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I read an article, can't remember where from, that it's coke usage fuelling fans now rather than booze. When i was young, coke use was no way prevalent - it seems it is now. Is that right?

It's probably cheaper to get the alcohol

[Tinmans Love Child]

34 minutes ago, 2015 said:

How would you deal with the societal factors?

If Societal factors are the cause, then these sort of incidents should be more frequent and occur across all aspects of life, but they don’t, they happen only at football.  

You don’t get somebody under societal pressures going to the theatre to watch Lion King and after a few beers in the interval, running on stage and punching Simba do you!  

 

[PHILINFRANCE]

42 minutes ago, Clevedon Red said:

Looking at the guy who attacked Sharp it was more fuelled by McDonalds than coke…

Perhaps he had a coke with his Big Mac.

[spudski]

13 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Then that feral tiny minority would not be a binary and or. Football fans are divergent. 

Legal punishments have helped to cut massively offending at football. We can look at football as then and now. Its silly to state that legal punishments that are greatly elevated (discriminatory?) for football are inadequate as a means of deterrent. 

No chance? Placing Police in areas that are more at risk would be more productive than what occurred last night. In a time of high emotion when the Police and safety officers will know using historical norms, fans will come onto the pitch, a fan ran into the dugout area which was unguarded by Police or Stewards. The risk Management there is a disgrace, leading to a induvial behaving disgracefully. 

Its not just the ... Same as it was in the past but the numbers have decreased, an ever present to be Managed.   

What happened to self-awareness .. Football crowds in the 70's, 80's, 90's and were so much more aware!! Football crowds in stadiums have become far less emotional, less responsive, less unpredictable, and far less violent.  

There were nearly 30,000 at Forest. One individual doesn't define the crowd. 

As I've said in all my posts...it's a minority.

Feral or anti social behaviour is more prevalent these days imo...in all walks of life. Not just football...let's remember football crowds are just a microcosm of the greater population.

It's now more prevalent that people don't think about how their actions affect others. It doesn't even cross their minds. It's all about me, me, me....sod anyone else. 

The incident at Forest of a player being headbutted is extreme...but throwing objects, flares, drugs, drunkenness, anti social behaviour, destruction, vandalism, not caring who you offend, especially elderly or woman, total disregard...even to their own fans...that's a normal occurance. 

The majority don't want this mindlessness to exist. Who wants to travel to games on public transport, be in certain pubs pre match or sat in an away end with these knobheads? 

Once in with em...you can do little about it.

 

[spudski]

1 minute ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

If Societal factors are the cause, then these sort of incidents should be more frequent and occur across all aspects of life, but they don’t, they happen only at football.  

You don’t get somebody under societal pressures going to the theatre to watch Lion King and after a few beers in the interval, running on stage and punching Simba do you!  

 

Only at footy... Wolfie and the three little pigs

[Eddie Notgetinya]

4 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

I know our police don't have the greatest reputation in the world, but a quick investigation into the bloke would uncover this in about 3 seconds!

Actually the UK police are widely regarded as the best in the world by most other countries!

[Super]

From the EFL

 

Unfortunately, at recent end-of season and Play-Off Semi-Final fixtures we have witnessed a number of unsavoury and unacceptable incidents take place with supporters entering the field of play.

These are currently under investigation by the relevant authorities and the EFL condemns in the strongest possible terms the reckless actions of individuals who have brought the game into disrepute with this unacceptable behaviour. The League is working closely with the Police and Clubs, offering its full support to the ongoing investigations. 

Supporters are reminded that it is against the law to enter the pitch at any time and could result in a Club ban and criminal record. More importantly it puts the safety of players, coaches, managers and match officials at risk. It is vital that those playing the game can do so safe in the knowledge that they will not be subjected to violent, threatening or anti-social behaviour going forward.

Many people have already lost the privilege of watching their team via club bans this season and further punitive action will follow for those who continue to disregard ground regulations and break the law at football matches.  

We recognise that this lawlessness is being conducted by a small minority of individuals and that the majority of people attending matches are a credit to their club.  However, it is not acceptable for supporters to enter the field of play at any time given the EFL’s objective is to ensure our matches remain a safe and welcoming one for all. Therefore, over the summer we will consider what further measures are now at our disposal, including the potential use of capacity reductions or other similar mitigations. 

Fans are also advised that the use of pyrotechnic devices inside a football stadium is a criminal offence that will potentially lead to police action, prosecution, and a ban from football. 

Pyrotechnics and flares can burn at up to 2,500°C and can cause significant injuries to carriers and fellow spectators. We have also seen many incidents that have resulted in people experiencing burns, breathing difficulties, distress, and discomfort.

Whilst the issue of pitch incursions and the use of pyrotechnic devices are primarily matters that fall within the remit of the Police and Football Association, the EFL continues to work closely and collaboratively with all the relevant parties to address the broader issue of anti-social behaviour. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Super

[Bernard Lerring]

15 minutes ago, Eddie Notgetinya said:

Actually the UK police are widely regarded as the best in the world by most other countries!

Really?!

Well how come they've never caught me for my one man crimewave of knock-knock-ginger throughout backwell and the surrounding areas in the mid 90s? Obviously can't be that good 

[2015]

23 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

If Societal factors are the cause, then these sort of incidents should be more frequent and occur across all aspects of life, but they don’t, they happen only at football.  

I can assure you these sorts of things happen quite often in Pubs and Nightclubs

[Cowshed]

22 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

If Societal factors are the cause, then these sort of incidents should be more frequent and occur across all aspects of life, but they don’t, they happen only at football.  

You don’t get somebody under societal pressures going to the theatre to watch Lion King and after a few beers in the interval, running on stage and punching Simba do you!  

 

Do large groupings of males from obvious socio-economic groupings go to the theatre? Human behaviour develops differently across society. Behaviour is affected by setting, its environment and peer group and emotions, and these incidents wouldn't be witnessed at the theatre, as the dynamics are different.

In regards to your first line behaviours we see at football can also be parallel to gigs, demos, festivals. There is a phrase demo fever, it is a heightened state of mental arousal, people at demos display behaviours they do not demonstrate elsewhere because of the intensity of the event and the actions of the participants .. A similarity to some peoples more extreme behaviour at football.

[Red-Robbo]

7 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Do large groupings of males from obvious socio-economic groupings go to the theatre? Human behaviour develops differently across society. Behaviour is affected by setting, its environment and peer group and emotions, and these incidents wouldn't be witnessed at the theatre, as the dynamics are different.

In regards to your first line behaviours we see at football can also be parallel to gigs, demos, festivals. There is a phrase demo fever, it is a heightened state of mental arousal, people at demos display behaviours they do not demonstrate elsewhere because of the intensity of the event and the actions of the participants .. A similarity to some peoples more extreme behaviour at football.

 

You've made some very good points on this thread, and I have to completely agree with you.

Funnily enough - in our distant past - theatre going WAS like the sports stadia of today, complete with booing, pyrotechnics and crowd disturbances!

http://www2.cedarcrest.edu/academic/eng/lfletcher/henry4/papers/mthomas.htm

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I read an article, can't remember where from, that it's coke usage fuelling fans now rather than booze. When i was young, coke use was no way prevalent - it seems it is now. Is that right?

Well, put it like this...in many big cities, including Bristol and London, you can get coke delivered to your door quicker than the police or an ambulance may turn up if you dialed 999. And that is in no way an exaggeration. 

[RedM]

1 hour ago, weepywall said:

Massively so, plenty of it going on at AG and pubs in the area and certainly at the higher profile away games when a fair few travel, part of the day out for many these days.

Wasn’t there a survey a couple of months ago where toilets and fan areas of football grounds were swabbed and in just about every ground traces of coke were found?

And yes, most away games you can spot the coked up idiots as they tend to spoil things for most decent fans.

[Tinmans Love Child]

30 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I can assure you these sorts of things happen quite often in Pubs and Nightclubs

But that’s too much booze and drugs consumed by people who can’t handle it, not societal factors in my view.  That’s too easy an excuse to make.  People from good backgrounds with no societal problems can also punch people in the face if they can’t handle the booze and drugs and are inclined to violence.  

[TonyTonyTony]

5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Well, put it like this...in many big cities, including Bristol and London, you can get coke delivered to your door quicker than the police or an ambulance may turn up if you dialed 999. And that is in no way an exaggeration. 

Sounds a bit more exciting than what Deliveroo delivers in Portishead !

[Selred]

8 minutes ago, RedM said:

Wasn’t there a survey a couple of months ago where toilets and fan areas of football grounds were swabbed and in just about every ground traces of coke were found?

And yes, most away games you can spot the coked up idiots as they tend to spoil things for most decent fans.

Not a shock. Same as the houses of parliament! 

[Sir Colby-Tit]

23 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Well, put it like this...in many big cities, including Bristol and London, you can get coke delivered to your door quicker than the police or an ambulance may turn up if you dialed 999. And that is in no way an exaggeration. 

Got a number? (asking for a friend) 

[Tin Soldier]

Seen plenty of white moustaches in certain pubs on North street in last few seasons.

[Sturny]

Just seen the footage, not sure what everyone is chatting about thought it deserves only a yellow 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Sturny