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14 minutes ago, spudski said:

No I don't...lot of presumption on this thread.

Hitting perse is wrong.

However...I am in the camp of a smack on the bottom to deter a child from hurting itself or others, if words won't work, or consequences don't work is ok.

Not hitting or beating. But a smack on the bottom with an explanation and hug.

That's my opinion...I'm not going to debate it as I won't change my mind. I grew up in that, and the deterent of a smack on the bum worked. 

I don't condone beating or abuse.

I witness more and more, parents trying to control children who are screaming, shouting, throwing absolute tantrums, trying to calm them with words...landing on deaf ears. Often the parents look embarrassed and at a loss as what to do...as words and consequences weren't working.

If you had a child continually running into the road without looking, and not listening to advice or reacting to consequences.........

Indeed...so it was you who mentioned ' young people'...you brought it up. I wasn't talking about young people perse...you changed the subject and incinuated by your reply that it was me.

It's been a gradual drip drip over generations.

 

You may not change your mind, but you are wrong even so.

Evidence strongly points to physical deterrents/punishment not reducing defiant or aggressive behaviour, and nor does it reinforce good behaviour. There is in fact substantial evidence it causes worse behaviour long term, including into adulthood as well as mental health issues.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Yes. Paul and George were ok, they were "nice." You wouldn't catch them streaming across the pitch, let alone taking Billy Sharp out. Whereas (before he went all, "I am the walrus") John, now he had that bit of nastiness about him ....

Poor Ringo, he's always left out. 😢

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7 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

You may not change your mind, but you are wrong even so.

Evidence strongly points to physical deterrents/punishment not reducing defiant or aggressive behaviour, and nor does it reinforce good behaviour. There is in fact substantial evidence it causes worse behaviour long term, including into adulthood as well as mental health issues.

 

 

There is also scientific evidence and studies carried out, showing that smacking of young children in a controlled manner, in a loving affectionate way with words of explanation, not aggression, and as part of an arsenal of discipline, last resort can be beneficial. And that smacking should decrease as a child gets older.

You've only got to Google it to see how many studies published contradict one another.

Never did me no harm...or my friends I grew up with. 

Only ones who went off the rails were those with no discipline in their lives or were abused/ beaten for no reason.

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Just now, spudski said:

Yep...there has always been anti social behaviour...but not to the degree we see now. Not sure what you are trying to prove...bit pointless.

You genuinely believe that there is more anti-social behaviour now than there used to be?

Because I do not believe that's remotely true. Pick a decade and there will be just as many examples of arseholes being arseholes. It's only rose tinted nostalgia that makes people think the past was so much better.

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

 

I never said there wasn't. However there was a period after, where it got better.

The violence back in the day was a reflection of the days we were living under at the time.

Anti social behaviour is far worse now throughout society in general, especially in this country compared with many in Europe. 

You think taking away discipline and consequences will make for better society? Seriously?

 

 

It was just as bad then, it jusy wasn't reported as no one had camera phones and social media 

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12 minutes ago, spudski said:

Hitting per se is wrong. Agree.

However...I am in the camp of a smack on the bottom to deter a child from hurting itself or others, if words won't work, or consequences don't work is ok. Agree.

Not hitting or beating. But a smack on the bottom with an explanation and hug. Agree.

That's my opinion...I'm not going to debate it as I won't change my mind. I grew up in that, and the deterent of a smack on the bum worked. 

I don't condone beating or abuse.

I witness more and more, parents trying to control children who are screaming, shouting, throwing absolute tantrums, trying to calm them with words...landing on deaf ears. Often the parents look embarrassed and at a loss as what to do...as words and consequences weren't working.

If you had a child continually running into the road without looking, and not listening to advice or reacting to consequences.........

It was this example that prompted me to respond.

I can't remember how I learnt not to run in to the road, whether after a ball or to greet somebody, but I was certainly aware from a very young age, perhaps from a smack on the bottom.

I can very well remember, though, my younger brother receiving a sharp smack on his backside from our mother, accompanied by a suitable admonishment along the lines of 'I have told you before (Smack!), you do not run in to the road (Smack!)' 

It worked for him as well, although, unfortunately, not for a young cousin of mine who ran in to the road from behind an ice cream van and was hit and killed by a passing car.

Not so long ago, however, I witnessed a quite disturbing scene one Saturday afternoon in Morrisons at Cribbs, when I saw a young mother give her young child a quite forceful slap across the head, warning him simply that he couldn't have any sweets and would receive a second slap if he continued crying.

In my view, the first (personal) example is quite acceptable, whilst the second is unforgiveable and should be punished.  

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Discipline is not the issue. Respect and values are.

Plenty of these utter scumbags hold down jobs, keep fit etc. Things that need discipline. The problem is they think this sort of behaviour is acceptable,  normal. That is the problem and it comes down to leadership, values, respect, upbringing. 

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

No I don't...lot of presumption on this thread.

Hitting perse is wrong.

However...I am in the camp of a smack on the bottom to deter a child from hurting itself or others, if words won't work, or consequences don't work is ok.

Not hitting or beating. But a smack on the bottom with an explanation and hug.

That's my opinion...I'm not going to debate it as I won't change my mind. I grew up in that, and the deterent of a smack on the bum worked. 

I don't condone beating or abuse.

I witness more and more, parents trying to control children who are screaming, shouting, throwing absolute tantrums, trying to calm them with words...landing on deaf ears. Often the parents look embarrassed and at a loss as what to do...as words and consequences weren't working.

If you had a child continually running into the road without looking, and not listening to advice or reacting to consequences.........

Indeed...so it was you who mentioned ' young people'...you brought it up. I wasn't talking about young people perse...you changed the subject and incinuated by your reply that it was me.

It's been a gradual drip drip over generations.

 

Call it a smack, call it a hit, makes no difference, I don’t think it’s right to do either to kids, and I don’t think a lack of doing this is  causing social problems now.  

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43 minutes ago, spudski said:

There is also scientific evidence and studies carried out, showing that smacking of young children in a controlled manner, in a loving affectionate way with words of explanation, not aggression, and as part of an arsenal of discipline, last resort can be beneficial. And that smacking should decrease as a child gets older.

You've only got to Google it to see how many studies published contradict one another.

Never did me no harm...or my friends I grew up with. 

Only ones who went off the rails were those with no discipline in their lives or were abused/ beaten for no reason.

Uh huh... smacking in a loving affectionate way.

You're right we get conflicting studies, but that's also why we look at meta analysis of multiple studies. All the ones I find say there are negative outcomes.

There's a good summary here covering the last twenty years of research: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/

Key points

  • Numerous studies have found that physical punishment increases the risk of broad and enduring negative developmental outcomes.
  • No study has found that physical punishment enhances developmental health.

Maybe I'm not searching correctly but I'm struggling to find any which say what you're suggesting. Could you link one or two?

39 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

How the hell do you smack a child in a loving affectionate way?

By smacking them and then subsequently needing to justify your behaviour to yourself, so you tell yourself that so you feel better.

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6 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

£10,000 fine & a ten year ban for entering the pitch . Make sure there are plenty of posters , social media notifications so nobody can say they didn’t know . Even adverts on talkSPORT , sky sports etc. 

I see news outlets saying Patrick viera will be in trouble for what happened , but how about the ***** that was in his face . Punishments need to be hard , to rid these **** wits out of the game . 

Wouldn’t it be nice if the other Premier League Managers came out in support of Viera if he gets in trouble. I’m sure they could think of something that would hurt the football authorities in the only place they care about, the pocket.

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35 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

It was this example that prompted me to respond.

I can't remember how I learnt not to run in to the road, whether after a ball or to greet somebody, but I was certainly aware from a very young age, perhaps from a smack on the bottom.

I can very well remember, though, my younger brother receiving a sharp smack on his backside from our mother, accompanied by a suitable admonishment along the lines of 'I have told you before (Smack!), you do not run in to the road (Smack!)' 

It worked for him as well, although, unfortunately, not for a young cousin of mine who ran in to the road from behind an ice cream van and was hit and killed by a passing car.

Not so long ago, however, I witnessed a quite disturbing scene one Saturday afternoon in Morrisons at Cribbs, when I saw a young mother give her young child a quite forceful slap across the head, warning him simply that he couldn't have any sweets and would receive a second slap if he continued crying.

In my view, the first (personal) example is quite acceptable, whilst the second is unforgiveable and should be punished.  

My son has never been smacked and he knows not to run out into the road. The same goes for my nephew and my young cousins.

It's perfectly possible to teach road safety (and discipline/manners) without hitting.

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4 hours ago, Aipearcey said:

Should player be abused? No of course not. But anyone say calling for fines and bans for fans, points deductions  and other punishments need to grow up or stay away from football. 

Fans have been doing pitch invasions for as long as I can remember, including ironically Swindon at the county ground against Port Vale 2012! Fans spend thousands of pounds and years of travelling up and down the country for very few moments like these, dont let a few isolated incidences and the media fool you into forcing an agenda to ruin rare moments like these for real fans. Sky sports were more than happy to jump on the bandwagon last night and shows how out of touch they really are.

So, if I pay to go and see a show at the theatre, I can get up on stage and attack the baddy in the play? 

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58 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yep...there has always been anti social behaviour...but not to the degree we see now. Not sure what you are trying to prove...bit pointless.

You’re simply wrong.  Anyone who went to football matches in the Sixties and Seventies will know that there was far more wilful antisocial behaviour then.  While there are some bad apples, I am constantly amazed at how well-balanced  and sensible most of today’s teenagers are.  A few pitch invasions and people go completely over the top.  Yes it has to be stopped but be real, in the 60s there was open fighting on the terraces and people were getting badly hurt (I saw someone stabbed at Ashton Gate at Ashton Gate as a youngster).
 

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1 minute ago, BS2 Red said:

My son has never been smacked and he knows not to run out into the road. The same goes for my nephew and my young cousins.

It's perfectly possible to teach road safety (and discipline/manners) without hitting.

I have two (adult) daughters and they were never smacked, nor did they run out in to the road.

I think it (whether or not to smack) depends very much on the character of the child - I do understand that a child's character can be influenced by its parents.

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Just now, PHILINFRANCE said:

I have two (adult) daughters and they were never smacked, nor did they run out in to the road.

I think it (whether or not to smack) depends very much on the character of the child - I do understand that a child's character can be influenced by its parents.

I am not really referring to past generations, attitudes and knowledge were completely different back then. But for modern people, smacking a child means you've failed as a parent imo.

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

No I don't...lot of presumption on this thread.

Hitting perse is wrong.

However...I am in the camp of a smack on the bottom to deter a child from hurting itself or others, if words won't work, or consequences don't work is ok.

Not hitting or beating. But a smack on the bottom with an explanation and hug.

That's my opinion...I'm not going to debate it as I won't change my mind. I grew up in that, and the deterent of a smack on the bum worked. 

I don't condone beating or abuse.

I witness more and more, parents trying to control children who are screaming, shouting, throwing absolute tantrums, trying to calm them with words...landing on deaf ears. Often the parents look embarrassed and at a loss as what to do...as words and consequences weren't working.

If you had a child continually running into the road without looking, and not listening to advice or reacting to consequences.........

Indeed...so it was you who mentioned ' young people'...you brought it up. I wasn't talking about young people perse...you changed the subject and incinuated by your reply that it was me.

It's been a gradual drip drip over generations.

 

So physical assault is all that prevents you from running into the street?

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

Yep...there has always been anti social behaviour...but not to the degree we see now. Not sure what you are trying to prove...bit pointless.

You should try reading some history. And maybe a bit less of the Daily Mail.

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4 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

I am not really referring to past generations, attitudes and knowledge were completely different back then. But for modern people, smacking a child means you've failed as a parent imo.

Hey!

My two daughters are very young adults 😉.

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