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Smacking didn't do me any harm, but it also shouldn't be used,

A lack of values and respect is the problem, a good whack wouldn't fix that,..

There are numerous factors in this probably too many to mention,  although the main issue is lack of social life these days, people are brought up on TV and computers and the majority of their life is through social media,

They aren't learning the real life social skills and interaction or respect we all learnt as children,

That's society as a whole fault imo, 

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3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

There are numerous factors in this probably too many to mention,  although the main issue is lack of social life these days, people are brought up on TV and computers and the majority of their life is through social media,

They aren't learning the real life social skills and interaction or respect we all learnt as children,

Is it? So the interactions they have at school with their friends are not real then? The after school clubs they go to and the youth centre are some virtual reality?

What cobblers.

 

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3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Smacking didn't do me any harm, but it also shouldn't be used,

A lack of values and respect is the problem, a good whack wouldn't fix that,..

There are numerous factors in this probably too many to mention,  although the main issue is lack of social life these days, people are brought up on TV and computers and the majority of their life is through social media,

They aren't learning the real life social skills and interaction or respect we all learnt as children,

That's society as a whole fault imo, 

Today it's social media/the internet

In the 90s/00s it was video games.

In the 80s it was video nasties, dungeons and dragons and heavy metal music

In the 60s and 70s it was drugs, rock n roll and later punk music

In the 50s it was American movies causing juvenile delinquency 

In the 20s and 30s it was "negro" jazz music

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Pitch invasions have been going on for over 50 years, lots of incidents have happened in that time ( City Rovers 96 anyone!). The big difference nowadays is that every game has tv cameras picking up every little incident.
 

These assaults have always gone on, we ourselves have done it in the past ( during our pitch invasions), and opposition players have got punched. 
 

There are always a few idiots who do stupid things, and that will never change. But extreme ideas like going back to fences are way over the top.

Going to football nowadays is like going to a crèche  compared to the 70’s and 80’s, where you literally took your life in your hands going to some places. Violence was an every Saturday occurrence back then.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, BS2 Red said:

Today it's social media/the internet

In the 90s/00s it was video games.

In the 80s it was video nasties, dungeons and dragons and heavy metal music

In the 60s and 70s it was drugs, rock n roll and later punk music

In the 50s it was American movies causing juvenile delinquency 

In the 20s and 30s it was "negro" jazz music

That’s one ****ing long childhood….

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1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

You may not change your mind, but you are wrong even so.

Evidence strongly points to physical deterrents/punishment not reducing defiant or aggressive behaviour, and nor does it reinforce good behaviour. There is in fact substantial evidence it causes worse behaviour long term, including into adulthood as well as mental health issues.

 

 

This is an interesting thread and there are some extraordinary views being aired. 

I could write pages and pages on this from when I retrained as a teacher in 2003-4 after losing my IT manager job. Needless to say I did not stay in teaching and I'm now back in IT management where I belong, but my brief flutter with teaching opened my eyes to how much social behaviour of both children AND adults have changed since my own school days in the late 1970s - early 1980s.

I agree with this 'evidence', but it doesn't tell the whole story. 
In the playground as a kid being bullied, if you give the bully a slap, they will STILL be a bully, but they won't bully YOU anymore. The slap hasn't 'fixed' their behaviour, so the 'evidence' holds true, but its resolved YOUR situation, whereas a detention or 100 lines - or even a letter home to parents would NOT have fixed.


 

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So many people blaming the youth of today, so many people on the ‘didn’t happen in my day’ high horse.  All these opinions do is make you sound bitter and twisted that you are old and the youth arnt!  
 

As others have posted, every generation gets smeared by the older generations for being out of control and wastes of space, it’s total cobblers based on nothing but bitterness and rose tinted glasses!  
 

Get over it Grandad’s!

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2 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Pitch invasions have been going on for over 50 years, lots of incidents have happened in that time ( City Rovers 96 anyone!). The big difference nowadays is that every game has tv cameras picking up every little incident.
 

These assaults have always gone on, we ourselves have done it in the past ( during our pitch invasions), and opposition players have got punched. 
 

There are always a few idiots who do stupid things, and that will never change. But extreme ideas like going back to fences are way over the top.

Going to football nowadays is like going to a crèche  compared to the 70’s and 80’s, where you literally took your life in your hands going to some places. Violence was an every Saturday occurrence back then.

 

 

 

 

Correct, didn’t Holloway get attacked on the pitch once upon a time back in the day?  Also didn’t Warnock get a knock in the playoff pitch invasion?  The difference now is the amount of cameras and footage that captures this stuff

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5 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

Today it's social media/the internet

In the 90s/00s it was video games.

In the 80s it was video nasties, dungeons and dragons and heavy metal music

In the 60s and 70s it was drugs, rock n roll and later punk music

In the 50s it was American movies causing juvenile delinquency 

In the 20s and 30s it was "negro" jazz music

I'm not saying it's the sole factor it's a number of factors involved, Simon sinik does some good stuff on this you can find it on YouTube, it ties into psychology and emotional intelligence,

Really interesting stuff if you want to do some research into it, I'd recommend it

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6 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

So many people blaming the youth of today, so many people on the ‘didn’t happen in my day’ high horse.  All these opinions do is make you sound bitter and twisted that you are old and the youth arnt!  
 

As others have posted, every generation gets smeared by the older generations for being out of control and wastes of space, it’s total cobblers based on nothing but bitterness and rose tinted glasses!  
 

Get over it Grandad’s!

It's the job of the previous generation to teach the current generation, if the current generation is the problem then its the previous generations fault

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4 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

I'm not saying it's the sole factor it's a number of factors involved, Simon sinik does some good stuff on this you can find it on YouTube, it ties into psychology and emotional intelligence,

Really interesting stuff if you want to do some research into it, I'd recommend it

Assuming it's the same guy (surname is spelt differently) I found this quote:

At the start of his speech, Simon states that the generation of the millennials is everyone born from approximately 1984 and after. Then he describes the millennials as being entitled, narcissistic, self-interested, unfocused and lazy.

I'll give him a miss, it sounds like the usual self-interested, unfocused and lazy accusations so beloved by certain people. 

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Just now, BS2 Red said:

Assuming it's the same guy (surname is spelt differently) I found this quote:

At the start of his speech, Simon states that the generation of the millennials is everyone born from approximately 1984 and after. Then he describes the millennials as being entitled, narcissistic, self-interested, unfocused and lazy.

I'll give him a miss, it sounds like the usual self-interested, unfocused and lazy accusations so beloved by certain people. 

No, watch thay video, trust me, that's not his feeling on it 

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34 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

This is an interesting thread and there are some extraordinary views being aired. 

I could write pages and pages on this from when I retrained as a teacher in 2003-4 after losing my IT manager job. Needless to say I did not stay in teaching and I'm now back in IT management where I belong, but my brief flutter with teaching opened my eyes to how much social behaviour of both children AND adults have changed since my own school days in the late 1970s - early 1980s.

I agree with this 'evidence', but it doesn't tell the whole story. 
In the playground as a kid being bullied, if you give the bully a slap, they will STILL be a bully, but they won't bully YOU anymore. The slap hasn't 'fixed' their behaviour, so the 'evidence' holds true, but its resolved YOUR situation, whereas a detention or 100 lines - or even a letter home to parents would NOT have fixed.

If your solution just ends up with more people giving and being on the receiving end of physical violence that doesn't sound like much of a solution to me though! You've "out bullied" the bully in your case, so they go off to bully someone else instead. More people who think being violent is an answer, more people who are subject to it.

The bullies just end up learning to punch down onto the most vulnerable instead, or at least the more vulnerable. I guess it's a fix if you're not one of them. That's not the kind of society I want to live in though (and I'm not saying you do or think that's a good thing by the way, just to be clear).

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1 hour ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I have two (adult) daughters and they were never smacked, nor did they run out in to the road.

I think it (whether or not to smack) depends very much on the character of the child - I do understand that a child's character can be influenced by its parents.

50% nuture, 50% nature.

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36 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Pitch invasions have been going on for over 50 years, lots of incidents have happened in that time ( City Rovers 96 anyone!). The big difference nowadays is that every game has tv cameras picking up every little incident.
 

These assaults have always gone on, we ourselves have done it in the past ( during our pitch invasions), and opposition players have got punched. 
 

There are always a few idiots who do stupid things, and that will never change. But extreme ideas like going back to fences are way over the top.

Going to football nowadays is like going to a crèche  compared to the 70’s and 80’s, where you literally took your life in your hands going to some places. Violence was an every Saturday occurrence back then.

 

 

 

 

I agree that pitch invasions are not a new phenomena. However for many years they have become a lot less prevalent, but this season/recently have become much more prevalent. There are even threads on here about pitch incursion at AG. I’m not sure what happened at PV last night, however what happened at Nottingham has resulted in a severe prison sentence and pictures of what appears to be a player kicking out at a pitch invader. This is serious stuff! 
 

Without going on about the Gas toooo much, the invasion there was before the match ended, a throw back to the 70s where supporters would try to get games stopped. Bizarrely Nottingham Forest I remember we’re on the receiving end in a game v Newcastle.
 

As we both remember. The fencing was taken down around grounds years ago as this behavior was deemed no longer an issue. The EFL, THE FA, police and government need to curtail this BEFORE we are all penned in again and we all remember what that lead to!  

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27 minutes ago, myol'man said:

Play off matches awarded to Sheffield United and Swindon. That would focus a few minds.

If the unlawful actions of the fans influenced the outcome of the game then I might agree that this could be considered. Otherwise, start by identifying and prosecuting anyone that went on the pitch and acted with malicious intent.

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32 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

If your solution just ends up with more people giving and being on the receiving end of physical violence that doesn't sound like much of a solution to me though! You've "out bullied" the bully in your case, so they go off to bully someone else instead. More people who think being violent is an answer, more people who are subject to it.

The bullies just end up learning to punch down onto the most vulnerable instead, or at least the more vulnerable. I guess it's a fix if you're not one of them. That's not the kind of society I want to live in though (and I'm not saying you do or think that's a good thing by the way, just to be clear).

Not sure there is another way when you are a child.  I was bullied at school by one individual, in the end I hit back, he never bullied me again (nor did anyone else) I was 10, what else could I have done?

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I don't wish to come across as complacent but a search took me across and reminded me of an article or two. Check the dates!

To some extent we have been here before, this side of the Millennium. One different aspect I guess is kids running on to try and get shirts as we have seen earlier in the season at AG and elsewhere.

There were no ground closures or partial closures, let alone fences.

https://www.wsc.co.uk/stories/14222-editorial-pitch-invasions-by-fans-are-a-symptom-of-a-wider-problem

https://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/99-Crowd-control-&-policing/2950-not-so-good-to-be-back

Not that I can find an article but less pitch incursions, more general crowd issues I seem to recall concerns about this in the late 2000's. The incidents are unacceptable but how big, how out of control a problem is this actually.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The incidents are unacceptable but how big, out of control a problem is this actually.

Exactly the point I failed to make last night, some people really don't want to see the facts for what they are 

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1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

I agree that pitch invasions are not a new phenomena. However for many years they have become a lot less prevalent, but this season/recently have become much more prevalent. There are even threads on here about pitch incursion at AG. I’m not sure what happened at PV last night, however what happened at Nottingham has resulted in a severe prison sentence and pictures of what appears to be a player kicking out at a pitch invader. This is serious stuff! 
 

Without going on about the Gas toooo much, the invasion there was before the match ended, a throw back to the 70s where supporters would try to get games stopped. Bizarrely Nottingham Forest I remember we’re on the receiving end in a game v Newcastle.
 

As we both remember. The fencing was taken down around grounds years ago as this behavior was deemed no longer an issue. The EFL, THE FA, police and government need to curtail this BEFORE we are all penned in again and we all remember what that lead to!  

Re the City Gas pitch invasions ( yes two), one was when they equalised and both sets of fans came on the pitch. The second was when City fans chased their players off the pitch!. 
 

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1 hour ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Not sure there is another way when you are a child.  I was bullied at school by one individual, in the end I hit back, he never bullied me again (nor did anyone else) I was 10, what else could I have done?

I see that as much different to a parent hitting a kid. A patent hitting a kid shows an inability to act like a responsible parent.

A kid hitting back when being bullied is a way of stopping the abuse that's happening to them. In fantasy land everyone would talk it out, the bully would learn the error of their ways, the sun would come out out and everyone would live happily ever after. But that doesn't happen in the real world.

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5 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

Pitch invasions have been going on for over 50 years, lots of incidents have happened in that time ( City Rovers 96 anyone!). The big difference nowadays is that every game has tv cameras picking up every little incident.
 

These assaults have always gone on, we ourselves have done it in the past ( during our pitch invasions), and opposition players have got punched. 
 

There are always a few idiots who do stupid things, and that will never change. But extreme ideas like going back to fences are way over the top.

Going to football nowadays is like going to a crèche  compared to the 70’s and 80’s, where you literally took your life in your hands going to some places. Violence was an every Saturday occurrence back then.

 

 

 

 

Spot on. As you have said its the cameras and then the subsequent uploads to social media that pick up every single incident and within literally minutes millions and millions have watched it on either youtube instagram etc etc.

I’m not saying pitch invasion are right or assaulting players or managers is right but it has been going on for years. To start saying the youth of today are any different to previous generations is so wide of the mark it’s untrue.

The other thing that gets my goat is people blaming cocaine for all and sundry these days.
 

What was fuelling the violence on the terraces in the 70s and 80s when cocaine was nowhere near as readily available on the streets as it is today and was pretty much exclusively for the rich and famous..?!

Edited by bris red
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11 hours ago, trickytimes said:

Surely the flat fences at Wembley are a danger then. If they are difficult to climb over, then they would be even more of a barrier in an emergency.

They are a danger - until lowered by stewards in case of an emergency.

Some are also powered by gas struts in some stadia such as in the Bundesliga that open in case of emergencies that are tested regularly, vertical as opposed to Wembley's horizontal as pictured.

If people hurt themselves hurtling over them in a non emergency situation, then they 100% deserve it imo.

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36 minutes ago, bris red said:

 

The other thing that gets my goat is people blaming cocaine for all and sundry these days.
 

What was fuelling the violence on the terraces in the 70s and 80s when cocaine was nowhere near as readily available on the streets as it is today and was pretty much exclusively for the rich and famous..?!

Cider 🤪

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