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Robbored
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Both Leeds and Burnley sacked their respective managers in an effort to avoid relegation from the PL but now one of them will joining us in the Championship next season.

It just shows that changing managers in a time of difficulty isn’t always the right decision and I firmly believe that had Burnley held on to Dyche that they wouldn’t  be in the precarious situation that they’re currently in. He was relegated first time around with them but bounced straight back up and there’s be no reason why he couldn’t have done the same if they’d gone down again.

The owners of both Burnley and Leeds obviously felt under immense pressure at the possibility of them losing PL status but the  in case of Leeds and Bielsa it’s more understandable with his poor command of English and if whispers are anything to go by his stubborn refusal to change tactics and style of play.

Personally I hope Leeds get relegated. 

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5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Both Leeds and Burnley sacked their respective managers in an effort to avoid relegation from the PL but now one of them will joining us in the Championship next season.

It just shows that changing managers in a time of difficulty isn’t always the right decision and I firmly believe that had Burnley held on to Dyche that they wouldn’t  be in the precarious situation that they’re currently in. He was relegated first time around with them but bounced straight back up and there’s be no reason why he couldn’t have done the same if they’d gone down again.

The owners of both Burnley and Leeds obviously felt under immense pressure at the possibility of them losing PL status but the  in case of Leeds and Bielsa it’s more understandable with his poor command of English and if whispers are anything to go by his stubborn refusal to change tactics and style of play.

Personally I hope Leeds get relegated. 

It's been proven before thay sacking a manager mid-season only ever has a short term gain,

Obviously not all all cases but mire likely then not

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Absolutely, sacking a manager isn't always the answer. Look what happened to us after we sacked Gary Johnson.

 

 

Edited by glynriley
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I thought sacking Dyche was mad, but they have definitely had far better results since, so that completely demolishes this argument.

5 defeats in the last 6 games under him, they were 4 points adrift from safety then.

Now they are out of the relegation zone with 1 game left & won 3 drawn 2 & lost 3 since he went.

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Don't disagree with your point, Alan, but not sure you've actually looked at what's happened here. Shock.

Burnley took four points in seven games before Sean Dyche was sacked and have taken 11 points from seven games since. They've already won as many games under Mike Jackson as they had in the five months previous under Dyche. They were going down without the change.

And Frank Lampard, who has undoubtedly overseen an upturn in Everton's results, was only appointed four weeks before Jesse Marsch at Leeds.

Still, don't let facts get in the way.

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12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Both Leeds and Burnley sacked their respective managers in an effort to avoid relegation from the PL but now one of them will joining us in the Championship next season.

It just shows that changing managers in a time of difficulty isn’t always the right decision and I firmly believe that had Burnley held on to Dyche that they wouldn’t  be in the precarious situation that they’re currently in. He was relegated first time around with them but bounced straight back up and there’s be no reason why he couldn’t have done the same if they’d gone down again.

The owners of both Burnley and Leeds obviously felt under immense pressure at the possibility of them losing PL status but the  in case of Leeds and Bielsa it’s more understandable with his poor command of English and if whispers are anything to go by his stubborn refusal to change tactics and style of play.

Personally I hope Leeds get relegated. 

Crazy opinion on Dyche.  Burnley had won 4 in 30 I think when he was sacked.  Since then they have won 3 in 8 and picked up 11 points in that time. If Dyche had carried on they would be down already.  Jackson has changed the way they play and improved them drastically. It hasn’t worked out for Leeds but don’t just look at a league table and think the same applies for Burnley 

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18 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Absolutely, sacking a manager isn't always the answer. Look what happened to us after we sacked Gary Johnson.

 

 

We were  starting to getspanked left, right and Centre, and the Plymouth fisticuffs, didn't leave much of an option.. 

Was totally the right answer

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21 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Absolutely, sacking a manager isn't always the answer. Look what happened to us after we sacked Gary Johnson.

 

 

I think in our case at city it’s been more to do with who’s been recruited after and how they’ve been sold the club when it’s actually ran different to what they’ve been told .

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4 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

We were  starting to getspanked left, right and Centre, and the Plymouth fisticuffs, didn't leave much of an option.. 

Was totally the right answer

Been a bit "whoosh'd" here I feel...

You must know how our friend RR feels about Sr. Johnson?

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24 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Crazy opinion on Dyche.  Burnley had won 4 in 30 I think when he was sacked.  Since then they have won 3 in 8 and picked up 11 points in that time. If Dyche had carried on they would be down already.  Jackson has changed the way they play and improved them drastically. It hasn’t worked out for Leeds but don’t just look at a league table and think the same applies for Burnley 

Agreed. Undoubtedly Dyche had worked wonders in his spell at Burnley but things had clearly become stale and change was needed.
 

 

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3 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

Been a bit "whoosh'd" here I feel...

You must know how our friend RR feels about Sr. Johnson?

I do, however, the OP was a weird false Dichotomy. I've not seen calls to sack NP for a bit, so it was a strange post to make in the first instance. 

The claim from another poster that GJ should have stayed, despite everything falling apart was also odd, to me. 

 

If whooshed, so be it, this week has been nuts anyway. 

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28 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I thought sacking Dyche was mad, but they have definitely had far better results since, so that completely demolishes this argument.

5 defeats in the last 6 games under him, they were 4 points adrift from safety then.

Now they are out of the relegation zone with 1 game left & won 3 drawn 2 & lost 3 since he went.

The rumour is it was a very unhappy dressing room under Dyche, and that would make sense given their recent upturn in form. 

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I agree. Sacking managers seems to be the knee jerk action of many clubs when nerves get jittery. This is often heavily influenced by a delusional fan base who demand instant success, regardless of the situation.

I’ve seen managers sacked for having half the team on the treatment table and the new manager or ‘Messiah’ was fortunate enough to have one or two of those players fit and ready again.

It takes time for any manager to clear out the deadwood and build his own team in his own image. This takes at least 2 transfer windows and the summer break to build for a new season.

Once a manager has his own team it just requires tweaking. The problem then is that the fans get bored with the style of play, think they are better than they are and think that they need to kick on to the next level (which in reality is always a level too far).

Look at what happened to Stoke and Bolton when they got ‘bored’ with the ‘same old’? That’s just two examples.

Sacking the manager is always the quickest and easiest option, but in reality most clubs need to be sacking players, back room staff and others behind the scenes and expect no signs of improvement for at least 18 months.

Sticking with a manager when you go down might actually make it easier to come back up, especially with parachute payments and less unsteadiness of the ship.

Fans sometimes need to be grateful for what they have got and where they are, especially in the Premier League. 

Unfortunately we have followed the Italian method which is sad because it never used to be that way in English football.

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The Dyche sacking was a masterstroke - maybe an unpopular opinion but I believe it. Mike Jackson won three of his first 4 (the classic new manager bounce) and I'm pretty confident they survive now, barring final day Leeds heroics (unlikely). Then they've got a summer to bring in a new manager to shake things up, a la Crystal Palace who've looked rejuvenated and quite exciting at times under Vieira (though not on a great run currently). 

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Both Leeds and Burnley sacked their respective managers in an effort to avoid relegation from the PL but now one of them will joining us in the Championship next season.

It just shows that changing managers in a time of difficulty isn’t always the right decision and I firmly believe that had Burnley held on to Dyche that they wouldn’t  be in the precarious situation that they’re currently in. He was relegated first time around with them but bounced straight back up and there’s be no reason why he couldn’t have done the same if they’d gone down again.

The owners of both Burnley and Leeds obviously felt under immense pressure at the possibility of them losing PL status but the  in case of Leeds and Bielsa it’s more understandable with his poor command of English and if whispers are anything to go by his stubborn refusal to change tactics and style of play.

Personally I hope Leeds get relegated. 

It worked for Everton and Newcastle

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1 hour ago, Tafkarmlf said:

We were  starting to getspanked left, right and Centre, and the Plymouth fisticuffs, didn't leave much of an option.. 

Was totally the right answer

It took the players refusing to play for GJ after they’d manhandled him out of the dressing room at Argyle that forced GJ to sack him.

City wouldn’t have a team otherwise.

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59 minutes ago, Super said:

It worked for Everton and Newcastle

Eddie Howe has taken a lot of stick, on here and elsewhere in the media, but I think he has definitely proved he has got something by the impressive way he has improved Newcastle. 

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1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

I thought sacking Dyche was mad, but they have definitely had far better results since, so that completely demolishes this argument.

5 defeats in the last 6 games under him, they were 4 points adrift from safety then.

Now they are out of the relegation zone with 1 game left & won 3 drawn 2 & lost 3 since he went.

Burnley are still at serious risk of the drop tho despite sacking Dyche and the same applies to Leeds.

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3 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Eddie Howe has taken a lot of stick, on here and elsewhere in the media, but I think he has definitely proved he has got something by the impressive way he has improved Newcastle. 

Absolutely right. It coincided with the departure of Ashley - something the toon army had wanted for years.A combination of both.

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9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Burnley are still at serious risk of the drop tho despite sacking Dyche and the same applies to Leeds.

So a side that had got 3 points out of a possible 18 under Dyche & then get 11 from 24 after sacking him under Jackson & you still think it was that decision which means they are in trouble?

Ok then.

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2 hours ago, glynriley said:

Absolutely, sacking a manager isn't always the answer. Look what happened to us after we sacked Gary Johnson.

I don't know about that. After the 2008 play off final, we went on a bit of a downward spiral, and the signings made (Maynard aside) were largely pretty poor. Gary contributed to our decline in the early 2010s, again not forgetting he did a fantastic job before then for us.

Also, lets not forget Dyche did only win 4 games this season out of 31 matches. I think they were going down with him in charge and yes I thought he did an excellent job for the club. If Burnley survive which I think is likely than not, then it will prove to be the right decision

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3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I don't know about that. After the 2008 play off final, we went on a bit of a downward spiral, and the signings made (Maynard aside) were largely pretty poor. Gary contributed to our decline in the early 2010s, again not forgetting he did a fantastic job before then for us.

 

This is such a huge myth.

We actually only signed 2 players in the summer after the playoff final, Maynard (a brilliant signing) & Gavin Williams. GJ also sold Nick Carle to help fund this.

The latter wasn’t anything special (a bit injury prone) but hardly a shocker in the vein of an Engvall, Palmer or Styvar.

We finished 10th in that season and did so again the year after, this “decline” was actually our joint 3rd highest finishes in this division since 1980, the best was of course in 2007/8, also under GJ.

The last season under him was when he lost the plot with a variety of random strikers but it is simply nonsense to claim he was largely responsible for the stuff afterwards.

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3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

This is such a huge myth.

We actually only signed 2 players in the summer after the playoff final, Maynard (a brilliant signing) & Gavin Williams. GJ also sold Nick Carle to help fund this.

The latter wasn’t anything special (a bit injury prone) but hardly a shocker in the vein of an Engvall, Palmer or Styvar.

We finished 10th in that season and did so again the year after, this “decline” was actually our joint 3rd highest finishes in this division since 1980, the best was of course in 2007/8, also under GJ.

The last season under him was when he lost the plot with a variety of random strikers but it is simply nonsense to claim he was largely responsible for the stuff afterwards.

The decline was the fact we went from playing high tempo, passing football during the first half of 07/08, to then lumping it long from the end of 07/08 til the end of Gary's reign. Even players have alluded to this who played in that squad, it was after we signed Adebola.
He was responsible for getting in Nyatanga on a long contract who was a poor signing, failing to get the best out of natural flair/talent (David Noble and Lee Trundle). He also signed David Clarkson who I cannot believe to this day was worth £800,000. 

We were on a downward spiral, and Johnson had lost the trust of the players, he had to go and was rightfully sacked. Our downward spiral sped up massively though when Coppell walked out after 2 games, which made the end of GJ's reign look better than it actually was. It was boring

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I'm sure NP has a view on this after being sacked at a previous club.

Nige had engineered a revival and no doubt would've kept that club from relegation when he was sacked with only a few games left.

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59 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

So a side that had got 3 points out of a possible 18 under Dyche & then get 11 from 24 after sacking him under Jackson & you still think it was that decision which means they are in trouble?

Ok then.

:facepalm:………..umm…….they’re still deep in the shit Graham. It could be all over come Sunday evening.

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3 hours ago, Robbored said:

Both Leeds and Burnley sacked their respective managers in an effort to avoid relegation from the PL but now one of them will joining us in the Championship next season.

It just shows that changing managers in a time of difficulty isn’t always the right decision and I firmly believe that had Burnley held on to Dyche that they wouldn’t  be in the precarious situation that they’re currently in. He was relegated first time around with them but bounced straight back up and there’s be no reason why he couldn’t have done the same if they’d gone down again.

The owners of both Burnley and Leeds obviously felt under immense pressure at the possibility of them losing PL status but the  in case of Leeds and Bielsa it’s more understandable with his poor command of English and if whispers are anything to go by his stubborn refusal to change tactics and style of play.

Personally I hope Leeds get relegated. 

What's the answer then? Never sack any manager, ever? Should we still have Alan Dicks as manager? Or Bob Houghton? Or Roy Hodgson??? Actually, we could've done worse than given Roy a 40 year contract, a job for life.

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