Robbored Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 Both Leeds and Burnley sacked their respective managers in an effort to avoid relegation from the PL but now one of them will joining us in the Championship next season. It just shows that changing managers in a time of difficulty isn’t always the right decision and I firmly believe that had Burnley held on to Dyche that they wouldn’t be in the precarious situation that they’re currently in. He was relegated first time around with them but bounced straight back up and there’s be no reason why he couldn’t have done the same if they’d gone down again. The owners of both Burnley and Leeds obviously felt under immense pressure at the possibility of them losing PL status but the in case of Leeds and Bielsa it’s more understandable with his poor command of English and if whispers are anything to go by his stubborn refusal to change tactics and style of play. Personally I hope Leeds get relegated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, Robbored said: Both Leeds and Burnley sacked their respective managers in an effort to avoid relegation from the PL but now one of them will joining us in the Championship next season. It just shows that changing managers in a time of difficulty isn’t always the right decision and I firmly believe that had Burnley held on to Dyche that they wouldn’t be in the precarious situation that they’re currently in. He was relegated first time around with them but bounced straight back up and there’s be no reason why he couldn’t have done the same if they’d gone down again. The owners of both Burnley and Leeds obviously felt under immense pressure at the possibility of them losing PL status but the in case of Leeds and Bielsa it’s more understandable with his poor command of English and if whispers are anything to go by his stubborn refusal to change tactics and style of play. Personally I hope Leeds get relegated. It's been proven before thay sacking a manager mid-season only ever has a short term gain, Obviously not all all cases but mire likely then not 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) Absolutely, sacking a manager isn't always the answer. Look what happened to us after we sacked Gary Johnson. Edited May 20, 2022 by glynriley 9 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 I thought sacking Dyche was mad, but they have definitely had far better results since, so that completely demolishes this argument. 5 defeats in the last 6 games under him, they were 4 points adrift from safety then. Now they are out of the relegation zone with 1 game left & won 3 drawn 2 & lost 3 since he went. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journalist Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) Don't disagree with your point, Alan, but not sure you've actually looked at what's happened here. Shock. Burnley took four points in seven games before Sean Dyche was sacked and have taken 11 points from seven games since. They've already won as many games under Mike Jackson as they had in the five months previous under Dyche. They were going down without the change. And Frank Lampard, who has undoubtedly overseen an upturn in Everton's results, was only appointed four weeks before Jesse Marsch at Leeds. Still, don't let facts get in the way. Edited May 20, 2022 by The Journalist 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 12 minutes ago, Robbored said: Both Leeds and Burnley sacked their respective managers in an effort to avoid relegation from the PL but now one of them will joining us in the Championship next season. It just shows that changing managers in a time of difficulty isn’t always the right decision and I firmly believe that had Burnley held on to Dyche that they wouldn’t be in the precarious situation that they’re currently in. He was relegated first time around with them but bounced straight back up and there’s be no reason why he couldn’t have done the same if they’d gone down again. The owners of both Burnley and Leeds obviously felt under immense pressure at the possibility of them losing PL status but the in case of Leeds and Bielsa it’s more understandable with his poor command of English and if whispers are anything to go by his stubborn refusal to change tactics and style of play. Personally I hope Leeds get relegated. Crazy opinion on Dyche. Burnley had won 4 in 30 I think when he was sacked. Since then they have won 3 in 8 and picked up 11 points in that time. If Dyche had carried on they would be down already. Jackson has changed the way they play and improved them drastically. It hasn’t worked out for Leeds but don’t just look at a league table and think the same applies for Burnley 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWred Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 In theory never a full proof plan because if every team sacked their manager then 3 of them will still have failed in their bid to stay up 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire robin Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 21 minutes ago, glynriley said: Absolutely, sacking a manager isn't always the answer. Look what happened to us after we sacked Gary Johnson. I think in our case at city it’s been more to do with who’s been recruited after and how they’ve been sold the club when it’s actually ran different to what they’ve been told . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy27 Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said: We were starting to getspanked left, right and Centre, and the Plymouth fisticuffs, didn't leave much of an option.. Was totally the right answer Been a bit "whoosh'd" here I feel... You must know how our friend RR feels about Sr. Johnson? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: Crazy opinion on Dyche. Burnley had won 4 in 30 I think when he was sacked. Since then they have won 3 in 8 and picked up 11 points in that time. If Dyche had carried on they would be down already. Jackson has changed the way they play and improved them drastically. It hasn’t worked out for Leeds but don’t just look at a league table and think the same applies for Burnley Agreed. Undoubtedly Dyche had worked wonders in his spell at Burnley but things had clearly become stale and change was needed. Edited May 20, 2022 by bris red 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 28 minutes ago, GrahamC said: I thought sacking Dyche was mad, but they have definitely had far better results since, so that completely demolishes this argument. 5 defeats in the last 6 games under him, they were 4 points adrift from safety then. Now they are out of the relegation zone with 1 game left & won 3 drawn 2 & lost 3 since he went. The rumour is it was a very unhappy dressing room under Dyche, and that would make sense given their recent upturn in form. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gert Mare Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 I agree. Sacking managers seems to be the knee jerk action of many clubs when nerves get jittery. This is often heavily influenced by a delusional fan base who demand instant success, regardless of the situation. I’ve seen managers sacked for having half the team on the treatment table and the new manager or ‘Messiah’ was fortunate enough to have one or two of those players fit and ready again. It takes time for any manager to clear out the deadwood and build his own team in his own image. This takes at least 2 transfer windows and the summer break to build for a new season. Once a manager has his own team it just requires tweaking. The problem then is that the fans get bored with the style of play, think they are better than they are and think that they need to kick on to the next level (which in reality is always a level too far). Look at what happened to Stoke and Bolton when they got ‘bored’ with the ‘same old’? That’s just two examples. Sacking the manager is always the quickest and easiest option, but in reality most clubs need to be sacking players, back room staff and others behind the scenes and expect no signs of improvement for at least 18 months. Sticking with a manager when you go down might actually make it easier to come back up, especially with parachute payments and less unsteadiness of the ship. Fans sometimes need to be grateful for what they have got and where they are, especially in the Premier League. Unfortunately we have followed the Italian method which is sad because it never used to be that way in English football. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCGav Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 The Dyche sacking was a masterstroke - maybe an unpopular opinion but I believe it. Mike Jackson won three of his first 4 (the classic new manager bounce) and I'm pretty confident they survive now, barring final day Leeds heroics (unlikely). Then they've got a summer to bring in a new manager to shake things up, a la Crystal Palace who've looked rejuvenated and quite exciting at times under Vieira (though not on a great run currently). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Robbored said: Both Leeds and Burnley sacked their respective managers in an effort to avoid relegation from the PL but now one of them will joining us in the Championship next season. It just shows that changing managers in a time of difficulty isn’t always the right decision and I firmly believe that had Burnley held on to Dyche that they wouldn’t be in the precarious situation that they’re currently in. He was relegated first time around with them but bounced straight back up and there’s be no reason why he couldn’t have done the same if they’d gone down again. The owners of both Burnley and Leeds obviously felt under immense pressure at the possibility of them losing PL status but the in case of Leeds and Bielsa it’s more understandable with his poor command of English and if whispers are anything to go by his stubborn refusal to change tactics and style of play. Personally I hope Leeds get relegated. It worked for Everton and Newcastle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted May 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Tafkarmlf said: We were starting to getspanked left, right and Centre, and the Plymouth fisticuffs, didn't leave much of an option.. Was totally the right answer It took the players refusing to play for GJ after they’d manhandled him out of the dressing room at Argyle that forced GJ to sack him. City wouldn’t have a team otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 59 minutes ago, Super said: It worked for Everton and Newcastle Eddie Howe has taken a lot of stick, on here and elsewhere in the media, but I think he has definitely proved he has got something by the impressive way he has improved Newcastle. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted May 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 1 hour ago, GrahamC said: I thought sacking Dyche was mad, but they have definitely had far better results since, so that completely demolishes this argument. 5 defeats in the last 6 games under him, they were 4 points adrift from safety then. Now they are out of the relegation zone with 1 game left & won 3 drawn 2 & lost 3 since he went. Burnley are still at serious risk of the drop tho despite sacking Dyche and the same applies to Leeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Robbored said: Burnley are still at serious risk of the drop tho despite sacking Dyche and the same applies to Leeds. Conversely, either Burnley or Leeds will demonstrate that sacking their manager was the right thing to do. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted May 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: Eddie Howe has taken a lot of stick, on here and elsewhere in the media, but I think he has definitely proved he has got something by the impressive way he has improved Newcastle. Absolutely right. It coincided with the departure of Ashley - something the toon army had wanted for years.A combination of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, Robbored said: Burnley are still at serious risk of the drop tho despite sacking Dyche and the same applies to Leeds. So a side that had got 3 points out of a possible 18 under Dyche & then get 11 from 24 after sacking him under Jackson & you still think it was that decision which means they are in trouble? Ok then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 2 hours ago, glynriley said: Absolutely, sacking a manager isn't always the answer. Look what happened to us after we sacked Gary Johnson. I don't know about that. After the 2008 play off final, we went on a bit of a downward spiral, and the signings made (Maynard aside) were largely pretty poor. Gary contributed to our decline in the early 2010s, again not forgetting he did a fantastic job before then for us. Also, lets not forget Dyche did only win 4 games this season out of 31 matches. I think they were going down with him in charge and yes I thought he did an excellent job for the club. If Burnley survive which I think is likely than not, then it will prove to be the right decision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, 2015 said: I don't know about that. After the 2008 play off final, we went on a bit of a downward spiral, and the signings made (Maynard aside) were largely pretty poor. Gary contributed to our decline in the early 2010s, again not forgetting he did a fantastic job before then for us. This is such a huge myth. We actually only signed 2 players in the summer after the playoff final, Maynard (a brilliant signing) & Gavin Williams. GJ also sold Nick Carle to help fund this. The latter wasn’t anything special (a bit injury prone) but hardly a shocker in the vein of an Engvall, Palmer or Styvar. We finished 10th in that season and did so again the year after, this “decline” was actually our joint 3rd highest finishes in this division since 1980, the best was of course in 2007/8, also under GJ. The last season under him was when he lost the plot with a variety of random strikers but it is simply nonsense to claim he was largely responsible for the stuff afterwards. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, GrahamC said: This is such a huge myth. We actually only signed 2 players in the summer after the playoff final, Maynard (a brilliant signing) & Gavin Williams. GJ also sold Nick Carle to help fund this. The latter wasn’t anything special (a bit injury prone) but hardly a shocker in the vein of an Engvall, Palmer or Styvar. We finished 10th in that season and did so again the year after, this “decline” was actually our joint 3rd highest finishes in this division since 1980, the best was of course in 2007/8, also under GJ. The last season under him was when he lost the plot with a variety of random strikers but it is simply nonsense to claim he was largely responsible for the stuff afterwards. The decline was the fact we went from playing high tempo, passing football during the first half of 07/08, to then lumping it long from the end of 07/08 til the end of Gary's reign. Even players have alluded to this who played in that squad, it was after we signed Adebola. He was responsible for getting in Nyatanga on a long contract who was a poor signing, failing to get the best out of natural flair/talent (David Noble and Lee Trundle). He also signed David Clarkson who I cannot believe to this day was worth £800,000. We were on a downward spiral, and Johnson had lost the trust of the players, he had to go and was rightfully sacked. Our downward spiral sped up massively though when Coppell walked out after 2 games, which made the end of GJ's reign look better than it actually was. It was boring 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 Hope Burnley don't rue that Weghorst miss last night. I personally think both Burnley and Leeds will lose on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norn Iron Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 I'm sure NP has a view on this after being sacked at a previous club. Nige had engineered a revival and no doubt would've kept that club from relegation when he was sacked with only a few games left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laner Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 2 hours ago, Super said: It worked for Everton and Newcastle And Forest. Although quite early into the season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted May 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 59 minutes ago, GrahamC said: So a side that had got 3 points out of a possible 18 under Dyche & then get 11 from 24 after sacking him under Jackson & you still think it was that decision which means they are in trouble? Ok then. ………..umm…….they’re still deep in the shit Graham. It could be all over come Sunday evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 3 hours ago, Robbored said: Both Leeds and Burnley sacked their respective managers in an effort to avoid relegation from the PL but now one of them will joining us in the Championship next season. It just shows that changing managers in a time of difficulty isn’t always the right decision and I firmly believe that had Burnley held on to Dyche that they wouldn’t be in the precarious situation that they’re currently in. He was relegated first time around with them but bounced straight back up and there’s be no reason why he couldn’t have done the same if they’d gone down again. The owners of both Burnley and Leeds obviously felt under immense pressure at the possibility of them losing PL status but the in case of Leeds and Bielsa it’s more understandable with his poor command of English and if whispers are anything to go by his stubborn refusal to change tactics and style of play. Personally I hope Leeds get relegated. What's the answer then? Never sack any manager, ever? Should we still have Alan Dicks as manager? Or Bob Houghton? Or Roy Hodgson??? Actually, we could've done worse than given Roy a 40 year contract, a job for life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 It will be interesting to see how Manure get on next season. The team, one of the most expensive in the pl have seen off a manager and a caretaker manager this season. How managers does it take to get the same set of players to perform consistently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted May 20, 2022 Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 2 hours ago, Tafkarmlf said: I do, however, the OP was a weird false Dichotomy. I've not seen calls to sack NP for a bit, so it was a strange post to make in the first instance. The claim from another poster that GJ should have stayed, despite everything falling apart was also odd, to me. If whooshed, so be it, this week has been nuts anyway. True, at least a few weeks since a few wanted Pearson out. In all seriousness the point is that CEO’s and Owners perhaps need to be more brave and not cave into fan pressure at every poor run of results. It can be argued in defence of our Owner, and I don’t always defend him on here that’s for sure, that he is showing the bravery to allow his choice to do the job he employed him for even if it takes a bit more time than planned. Pearson is no different to any other Manager and will be judged on results but the point many were making was allow him the time to get through the mess he inherited and THEN if nothing changes perhaps the Manager needs to change. The current transfer window is one where we and the Owner might expect to take one or two steps forward rather than constant firefighting with kids and square pegs in round holes because we are able to get a reasonable amount of the dead wood who just haven’t done it for us, like COD, out of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.