The Palmer problem

[chinapig]

16 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

Sorry been away most of week has Palmer left now?

He's on holiday. Having a medical at Coventry next week.

[eardun]

15 hours ago, chinapig said:

He's on holiday. Having a medical at Coventry next week.

Whereas Wilson broke his holiday to have his medical with us. 

[shelts]

He was a panic buy . Nothing in his loan spell showed he would be a consistent performer . Shame as he’s a real talent 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, shelts said:

He was a panic buy . Nothing in his loan spell showed he would be a consistent performer . Shame as he’s a real talent 

 

 

 

 

 

A ‘panic’ buy ?

In what respect ?

In a summer window when we’d already signed half the football league, including SS , and still had Jamie P here

How was that a ‘panic buy’

 

Indulgent and vanity signing , with Junior believing he could create the next Messi and Ashton salivating at what he could personally gain from such a rise in value from the player 

[shelts]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

A ‘panic’ buy ?

In what respect ?

In a summer window when we’d already signed half the football league, including SS , and still had Jamie P here

How was that a ‘panic buy’

 

Indulgent and vanity signing , with Junior believing he could create the next Messi and Ashton salivating at what he could personally gain from such a rise in value from the player 

Think we couldn’t get our original targets and LJ as u z thought he’d get a different tune out of Palmer if he signed permanently.   Someone should’ve reigned in LJ and made him sit on his hands !
Was Palmer not a late signing ?

[Sir Geoff]

10 minutes ago, shelts said:

Think we couldn’t get our original targets and LJ as u z thought he’d get a different tune out of Palmer if he signed permanently.   Someone should’ve reigned in LJ and made him sit on his hands !
Was Palmer not a late signing ?

We had just signed SS for the same role. Palmer came soon after , I believe. He was not a panic buy.

[Sheltons Army]

14 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

We had just signed SS for the same role. Palmer came soon after , I believe. He was not a panic buy.

And simply , signed two players who weren’t as good as the one we already had -

summed up our recruitment most of those years

Three players for the same role, - fantastic

No strategy in recruiting for side / squad building

I remember discussing the signing of Wells with @Davefevswhen it looked as we were signing him

We both had real doubts , particularly in how Johnson intended or even had a plan in how to use him - Well that worked well ! **

 

** It didn’t help that we had Famara who appeared to be unable to form a partnership (Despite his lauders , and I will get much flak , but I actually think Famara , in his style held us back for some time)

 

Even Klopp , at the highest level , under intense pressure , skimmed on signing a centre half , until he could sign the right one , for his requirements and the requirements to play in his system , and thrive in it

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Sheltons Army

[shelts]

9 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

We had just signed SS for the same role. Palmer came soon after , I believe. He was not a panic buy.

A strange buy nonetheless . 

[Swede]

40 minutes ago, shelts said:

He was a panic buy . Nothing in his loan spell showed he would be a consistent performer . Shame as he’s a real talent 

 

 

 

 

 

My recollection, we were looking at the permanent signing of the three Chelsea players with KP45 the last to sign, SS was also available and, in my view was only meant to be signed if we couldn't get KP45. I think, considering they play in a similar position and we still had Pato, signing both was down to a certain reptile's large ego. That's why we are still feeling the painful and costly errors of his egotistical judgement.

Mercifully we now have a proper man manager who has a clear understanding of how to take us forward.

I liked all three players but one would've been enough.

[shelts]

3 minutes ago, Swede said:

My recollection, we were looking at the permanent signing of the three Chelsea players with KP45 the last to sign, SS was also available and, in my view was only meant to be signed if we couldn't get KP45. I think, considering they play in a similar position and we still had Pato, signing both was down to a certain reptile's large ego. That's why we are still feeling the painful and costly errors of his egotistical judgement.

Mercifully we now have a proper man manager who has a clear understanding of how to take us forward.

I liked all three players but one would've been enough.

Makes sense what you’ve z . Still paying for it 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

And simply , signed two players who weren’t as good as the one we already had -

summed up our recruitment most of those years

Three players for the same role, - fantastic

No strategy in recruiting for side / squad building

I remember discussing the signing of Wells with @Davefevswhen it looked as we were signing him

We both had real doubts , particularly in how Johnson intended or even had a plan in how to use him - Well that worked well ! **

 

** It didn’t help that we had Famara who appeared to be unable to form a partnership (Despite his lauders , and I will get much flak , but I actually think Famara , in his style held us back for some time)

 

Even Klopp , at the highest level , under intense pressure , skimmed on signing a centre half , until he could sign the right one , for his requirements and the requirements to play in his system , and thrive in it

 

We did indeed.  I was a big fan of Wells, but always felt he moved a season quicker than us, I.e. he was always just out of our reach.  Buying him at 29 felt like because he’d been on our radar in the past and now he was available we had to sign him, regardless of whether it was right for the time.

The use of the team squad building is apt.

Happy to take flak, because I actually thought Nige was right to go with a temporary, low risk plan of Vyner and Simpson at RB last season.  It failed in terms of Vyner becoming a long term RB.  But at what cost was that failure?  Low!  Wages, relatively low wages of both players, no fees…it didn’t end with relegation or anything that bad.  Yep, Nige addressed quickly with Tanner, for a low fee / wages with plenty of upside.  A year later he’s picked up Kane Wilson.  We now have two 22-year old right sided defenders with huge upside.

Knowing when to stick (Vyner and Simpson) and when to twist (Tanner and Wilson) is a great skill to have.  Not saying Nige gets its right, nor everytime, but I do feel he doesn’t throw money at solving issues, and that has a lot of merit in our current situation.  I’m thankful for that.

 

[petehinton]

23 hours ago, eardun said:

Whereas Wilson broke his holiday to have his medical with us. 

Would be harsh to leave a heavily pregnant girlfriend alone with two toddlers in a foreign country tbf 

[Henry]

23 hours ago, eardun said:

Whereas Wilson broke his holiday to have his medical with us. 

He’s on holiday in the Maldives with his kids and pregnant wife, celebrating their anniversary.

Say what you like about Palmer, he seems a good family man who puts family before football. Good on him.

[Numero Uno]

On 11/06/2022 at 10:54, Sheltons Army said:

A ‘panic’ buy ?

In what respect ?

In a summer window when we’d already signed half the football league, including SS , and still had Jamie P here

How was that a ‘panic buy’

 

Indulgent and vanity signing , with Junior believing he could create the next Messi and Ashton salivating at what he could personally gain from such a rise in value from the player 

That’s where you need an owner who has the football knowledge to say “hold ******* fire a minute, why are you asking me for £4m and £20k per week out of my sky rocket to pay for a player when we already have two covering that position? How does **** off and go and strengthen another position sound?”.

[DaveF]

19 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

That’s where you need an owner who has the football knowledge to say “hold ******* fire a minute, why are you asking me for £4m and £20k per week out of my sky rocket to pay for a player when we already have two covering that position? How does **** off and go and strengthen another position sound?”.

I don't think an owner should have that much involvement on the football side. We'd be livid if we found out Lansdown was making decisions on who we sign or who plays.

[Simon bristol]

34 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

That’s where you need an owner who has the football knowledge to say “hold ******* fire a minute, why are you asking me for £4m and £20k per week out of my sky rocket to pay for a player when we already have two covering that position? How does **** off and go and strengthen another position sound?”.

Im sure at that time we had nearly a whole team who could play in that sort of position, odowda, watkins, elliasson weimann, szmodics and then palmer and im probably missing a few

[Richard Head]

Sammie S and KP are very different footballers. SS thrives on quick runs off the last defender which is how both Colchester and Posh used him. LJ didn’t have a clue what to do with him and he looked lost in the handful of games he played for us. I remember reading that Darragh MacAnthony asked Swiss Toni to sell him after his loan, Toni declined and SS wanted to stay with us. DM said he persuaded Toni to let him go (I don’t knows what sweetened the deal, maybe he paid in Swiss francs or offered a night out in Peterborough’s Latin Quarter?) I do wonder what Nige could have made of SS in his natural role.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Richard Head
Adding to text

[Sheltons Army]

51 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

That’s where you need an owner who has the football knowledge to say “hold ******* fire a minute, why are you asking me for £4m and £20k per week out of my sky rocket to pay for a player when we already have two covering that position? How does **** off and go and strengthen another position sound?”.

 

30 minutes ago, DaveF said:

I don't think an owner should have that much involvement on the football side. We'd be livid if we found out Lansdown was making decisions on who we sign or who plays.

In theory as CEO Swiss Toni should have been asking all the questions to LJ as to why he wanted player X or Y

 

He clearly failed to do so , and was far more complicit in the whole escapade , to whatever degree depending on your belief

In this instance , where was the hobby chairman , who should have been asking MA the plan , thoughts and strategy behind signings

He , or his Father shouldn’t be dictating who we sign , but they had the absolute right to , and absolutely should have been asking the suitable questions

Lets be honest here , all Four failed to professionally conduct their roles in terms of recruitment at times , all for probably different reasons ranging from ego , incompetence , and others too

 

[E.G.Red]

On 11/06/2022 at 11:21, shelts said:

A strange buy nonetheless . 

and do you think it's a strange buy for Mark Robbins?. Palmer hasn't played much for us this season, and yet Coventry seem happy to sign him.

[Simon bristol]

7 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

and do you think it's a strange buy for Mark Robbins?. Palmer hasn't played much for us this season, and yet Coventry seem happy to sign him.

Im sure a lot of clubs would take him, thinking they will be the ones who finally get a tune out if palmer, will have to wait and see happens i guess,,, i dont hold much ill will towards cov or palmer

[downendcity]

38 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

 

In theory as CEO Swiss Toni should have been asking all the questions to LJ as to why he wanted player X or Y

 

He clearly failed to do so , and was far more complicit in the whole escapade , to whatever degree depending on your belief

In this instance , where was the hobby chairman , who should have been asking MA the plan , thoughts and strategy behind signings

He , or his Father shouldn’t be dictating who we sign , but they had the absolute right to , and absolutely should have been asking the suitable questions

Lets be honest here , all Four failed to professionally conduct their roles in terms of recruitment at times , all for probably different reasons ranging from ego , incompetence , and others too

 

It's quite possible that questions were asked.

However, it is also possible that slippery MA could have bluffed an answer along the lines that if either SS or KP performed, enabling a profitable sale, we'd already have a suitable replacement on the books.

[E.G.Red]

9 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Im sure a lot of clubs would take him, thinking they will be the ones who finally get a tune out if palmer, will have to wait and see happens i guess,,, i dont hold much ill will towards cov or palmer

Neither do I. I thought both Wells and Palmer would provide the creative spark for us, but as has been proven many times some players just aren't the right fit for the club or vice versa.

[REDOXO]

On 11/06/2022 at 05:11, Sir Geoff said:

We had just signed SS for the same role. Palmer came soon after , I believe. He was not a panic buy.

Just a crap one!

[Major Isewater]

26 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

and do you think it's a strange buy for Mark Robbins?. Palmer hasn't played much for us this season, and yet Coventry seem happy to sign him.

The risk / reward factor will be much reduced now. 
Palmer on a free within today’s  wages structure is, we hope, an attractive proposition for a lot of clubs. 

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

 

In theory as CEO Swiss Toni should have been asking all the questions to LJ as to why he wanted player X or Y

 

He clearly failed to do so , and was far more complicit in the whole escapade , to whatever degree depending on your belief

In this instance , where was the hobby chairman , who should have been asking MA the plan , thoughts and strategy behind signings

He , or his Father shouldn’t be dictating who we sign , but they had the absolute right to , and absolutely should have been asking the suitable questions

Lets be honest here , all Four failed to professionally conduct their roles in terms of recruitment at times , all for probably different reasons ranging from ego , incompetence , and others too

 

Put it this way, if I was handing the club £15m a season those are questions I feel I would be entitled to ask of my employees. We aren’t talking about interfering in the “day to day” here. Swiss was sanctioning a transfer costing around £7m with wages added for a player we didn’t need. How the hell do Bristol City end up with three well paid players fighting for one position. No wonder Nige thinks we were a basket case. Not only has it failed spectacularly on the football side of things but it’s left us with an almighty FFFP hole to fill.

[Numero Uno]

Put another way we had Palmer (£20k), Smodicz (say £6k) and Pato (say £8k) fighting for one place in the side. I challenge anyone on here to justify that amount of outlay per week on one place at a medium sized Championship club.

[redsocks]

No problem just get rid of him.has been a crap signing playing maybe 2 good games not a good return.also hope we not sign pack back took us ages to get rid of him.like what we signed so far heres to next season. Coyr