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Palmer signs for Coventry


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4 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

If there is one position that players can get away with it then it’s probably attacking midfield. I’m the first to say that players are trying more than some might think but there are also players who certainly don’t put in the effort.  I don’t think it’s similar to HNM not scoring at all. That’s not his job.  When someone runs past Palmer and he gives up then I’m not going to ignore it just because he’s sometimes good at passing 

This was my argument with you before. Palmer is positionally/tactically poor defensively . When you say he gives up If a player runs past , it’s simply not true. Many a time he’s chased  back to put a tackle in . Trouble with him is his defensive attributes are not good enough. I’ve always had the stance with him that he’s still playing academy football in his head or 5 a side . He needs to change his mentally in that respect yes . But he’s not lazy . Best for all parties when he moves on though 

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11 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

This was my argument with you before. Palmer is positionally/tactically poor defensively . When you say he gives up If a player runs past , it’s simply not true. Many a time he’s chased  back to put a tackle in . Trouble with him is his defensive attributes are not good enough. I’ve always had the stance with him that he’s still playing academy football in his head or 5 a side . He needs to change his mentally in that respect yes . But he’s not lazy . Best for all parties when he moves on though 

I’ve seen him give up a fair few times. He has a couple of games where he’s on it but can’t sustain the determination over a period of games. That’s how I see it anyway but appreciate we disagree! Certainly agree it’s best he moves on. 

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6 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Ill carry him to Coventry. Probably worst signing for us ever, considering the fee, the wages, the performances, and the terrible song

Feels a bit harsh, he has contributed a bit.

13 goals / assists in 56 appearances in league and Cup isn't awful considering a lot of them are subs.

Definitely not a good signing but our worst ever should surely be reserved for players who haven't contributed anything at all.

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7 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Feels a bit harsh, he has contributed a bit.

13 goals / assists in 56 appearances in league and Cup isn't awful considering a lot of them are subs.

Definitely not a good signing but our worst ever should surely be reserved for players who haven't contributed anything at all.

At somewhere around £600k a goal or assist - Id say pretty disastrous 

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8 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Feels a bit harsh, he has contributed a bit.

13 goals / assists in 56 appearances in league and Cup isn't awful considering a lot of them are subs.

Definitely not a good signing but our worst ever should surely be reserved for players who haven't contributed anything at all.

Cost the club 6 million quid (transfer fee+ wages) over 3 year. That's half a million quid goal and assist.

Shocking signing, and you can't even say he wasn't given a chance. He had plenty of opportunities as you rightly point out. He must pinch himself everyday he is earning that money. 

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He’s probably the definitive late Ashton era signing - lots of promise/potential that only flashed previously, bought for a decent sum with the expectation he’d shine for us, ultimately move on and play his best football elsewhere, but make us back the money spent and more in the process, enabling us to rinse-&-repeat.

Problem is (and as it was in this case), if that ‘process’ doesn’t pay off, we stuck with an ‘asset’ that contributes little but costs a lot.

Sure he’ll do fine elsewhere but absolute failure for us, sadly.

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1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

At somewhere around £600k a goal or assist - Id say pretty disastrous 

Surely better than Engvall? £2m and did he even have an assist of goal?

He was £500k per game!

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3 minutes ago, Selred said:

Surely better than Engvall? £2m and did he even have an assist of goal?

He was £500k per game!

Engvall was a terrible signing but was on far lower wages & was off the wage bill much quicker. He spent a fair bit of his spell with us on loan elsewhere, too.

We also got £250k back for him, when you take his wages & fee into account Palmer is in another league completely with regards to cost.

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11 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

"the Robins have been unable to get the best out of one of the most talented playmakers outside of the Premier League."

Bristol Post seems to rate him! 😆

Bristol post is shite. Huddersfield, Derby, Swansea, Blackburn and City have had him and he has failed everywhere. Most talented playmaker my arse.

KP is a wet dream player. Just because he can hit a slide rule pass every once in a while, every one gets erect. Hitting one or two hero passes a season is nowhere near enough. Best of luck to him at Coventry, but it'll probably be the same story. Nice work if you can get it i suppose

Edited by TonyTonyTony
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12 minutes ago, samo II said:

He’s probably the definitive late Ashton era signing - lots of promise/potential that only flashed previously, bought for a decent sum with the expectation he’d shine for us, ultimately move on and play his best football elsewhere, but make us back the money spent and more in the process, enabling us to rinse-&-repeat.

Problem is (and as it was in this case), if that ‘process’ doesn’t pay off, we stuck with an ‘asset’ that contributes little but costs a lot.

Sure he’ll do fine elsewhere but absolute failure for us, sadly.

Maybe the fact that Huddersfield, Blackburn & Derby all chose not to take up the option when he was on loan with them should have sent alarm bells ringing.

For me though, it's the loan spell with us prior to his permanent transfer that is inexcusable. He was poor in the main, and was left out of the side at the end. How we thought we could polish him up to be a diamond is beyond me.

Good luck to Coventry with him. There is undoubted talent there, however my gut feeling is he's another Liam Walsh on the horizon for them.

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18 minutes ago, The Coach said:

The signing also didn't make sense as we brought in Smozdics earlier in the summer 

Who arguably showed more promise in the short time he was here. That's one transfer out that I do wish we would have stuck with a bit longer, could have been extremely useful in the past year or so. Not saying he would have gone on to be the next multi million pound transfer, but could have been a decent player for us.

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6 minutes ago, Taz said:

Who arguably showed more promise in the short time he was here. That's one transfer out that I do wish we would have stuck with a bit longer, could have been extremely useful in the past year or so. Not saying he would have gone on to be the next multi million pound transfer, but could have been a decent player for us.

Certainly strikes me with his work rate, that he could have been a Pearson type player. Didn't have his finest game against us at AG in April though.

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Touch wood that everything goes through well for Kasey palmer, and the medical doesn’t hold the move back. Too much of luxury player for me, although technically very talented, and unfortunately we’ve never managed to find a system that suits his talents, I wish him all the best for the future. 

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32 minutes ago, The Coach said:

The signing also didn't make sense as we brought in Smozdics earlier in the summer 

And neither of them ending up getting much game time. A stroke of genius.

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I don't think there's any hotair around Palmer and us. Just not a player we need. I think NP like every player to contribute to attack and defence when needed and that's just not KP's style. I find he just need to focus on the attack and right pass. 

For how long he's not been in our plans it's easy to assume something negative about the situation.

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18 hours ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Whatever the end result is with Palmer, from my perspective; he will go down as the worst signing ever in financial terms since I started supporting the club (1978).

His lack of end product on the pitch just exemplifies what a truly awful deal it was.

Even before his permanent signing, we must have been paying his wages, and a loan fee to Chelsea.

By the end of his loan he wasn't even in the first team reckoning. Absolute madness to then buy him, and put him on those wages.

That crazy summer of 2019, just keeps coming back to bite us financially.

 

 

I raise you Tony Dinning!

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30 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

"the Robins have been unable to get the best out of one of the most talented playmakers outside of the Premier League."

Bristol Post seems to rate him! 😆

22 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Bristol post is shite. Huddersfield, Derby, Swansea, Blackburn and City have had him and he has failed everywhere. Most talented playmaker my arse.

KP is a wet dream player. Just because he can hit a slide rule pass every once in a while, every one gets erect. Hitting one or two hero passes a season is nowhere near enough. Best of luck to him at Coventry, but it'll probably be the same story. Nice work if you can get it i suppose

Agree with your general sentiment on this, Tony. Players like Palmer benefit from a huge amount of praise which they don't really deserve IMO. I have no idea how someone can look at Palmer's last half a decade of football and conclude that he's "one of the most talented playmakers outside of the Premier League". The aura around being labelled a "luxury player" seems to act as an insurance policy for some players.

What really irks me about it is that it seems so unfair on many other players who are much more deserving of praise. Take Weimann, for example, who received very little recognition prior to this season. Or Chris Martin, a player who took a battering from our fanbase at times this season, but was effective, hard working, and contributed a lot. Seeing a player like Palmer receive such generous reviews feels like a real insult to these players who have done far more to deserve recognition.

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Sorry catching up…

8 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

I didn’t say that they had to bomb back.  
 

Palmer can do it in bursts of one game here and there but can never put a run of games together. That’s why he doesn’t get picked.  It’s why he is about to join his 7th club at the age of 25.  It is why he has never appeared in more than 25 league games in a season.  
 

You can make as many excuses as you want but ultimately he has failed to impress many managers in the game.  Good luck to him at Coventry though, I hope he refocuses and can put effort in over a run of games 

“failed to impress” is very different to “lazy” though.  Not being a good “presser” is different to “lazy” also.

He was committed in the tackle unlike some other players who shirked challenges.

I think @Sheltons Armymight be closer to the mark in terms of his desire to improve himself, or lack of it.  Maybe the penny might be about to drop.

7 hours ago, Taz said:

I do wonder if there was some sort of "gentleman's agreement" where we agreed to take all 3 on loan, and agreed to buy them at the end of the season. With JD and TK they were announced fairly early on, and most agreed were great signings at the time. With KP the opinion on him was more split.

LJ said he wanted him for a full pre-season, that didn't happen. KP was announced quite late into the pre-season, and hasn't really played that much when compared to JD and TK. I wonder if most of that pre-season had Ashton grovelling at Chelsea to not take on Palmer, however if/when they threatened to stop all future deals between the clubs, he decided to go through with it regardless.

Of course I have no idea if any of the above happened, but the Palmer transfer has always baffled me because it goes against what LJ was saying/wanting at the time.

I don't dislike Palmer, he has just never suited our style of play. It's a strange transfer.

I honestly don’t believe there was any agreement.  It was out in the open we had Dasilva option, which we took up, Kalas followed shortly after….and then a big gap to Palmer.

7 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

£12k pw. Ipswich did not pay well in this division, don't forget. Adam Webster was only on £4.5k per week when we signed him. 

Ta for confirming.  Out of interest was the half n half bit near the truth?

5 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

So no fee but a saving of circa £1 m on salary according to this: https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/coventry-city-bristol-city-chelsea-7157494

 

If that is true, it’s nice and clean, shows KP is happy to take a paycut this season rather than sit around, or demand we top his Cov salary up for a season.  Sounds like he’s had good advice or decided himself his career is going nowhere unless he compromises.

So that saves £1m and cuts the deficit towards the P&S £39m amount.  That’s a good start.  Not perfect, but better than my worst fears.

4 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

This was my argument with you before. Palmer is positionally/tactically poor defensively . When you say he gives up If a player runs past , it’s simply not true. Many a time he’s chased  back to put a tackle in . Trouble with him is his defensive attributes are not good enough. I’ve always had the stance with him that he’s still playing academy football in his head or 5 a side . He needs to change his mentally in that respect yes . But he’s not lazy . Best for all parties when he moves on though 

⬇️⬇️⬇️

4 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

I’ve seen him give up a fair few times. He has a couple of games where he’s on it but can’t sustain the determination over a period of games. That’s how I see it anyway but appreciate we disagree! Certainly agree it’s best he moves on. 

And I’ve seen Alex Scott give up chasing back, Andi Weimann too (even though he’s always labelled as runs around a lot).

Re “can’t sustain the determination over a period of games” playing Devil’s advocate, when has he had to chance to show that?

19/20 when playing with Afobe / Weimann making runs in a 3412 and Palmer playing well, he then is sub, starts, sub, etc, etc…losing momentum.

in 20/21 when returning from Swansea, he starts a few, then benched…gets back in in the lead-up to covid, scores a couple, then doesn’t start on the resumption.

His best form has come from starting 3 or 4 games, but then never really given the chance to build upon that.  Whose fault is that?  The honest answer is that neither of us know.

 

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Sorry catching up…

“failed to impress” is very different to “lazy” though.  Not being a good “presser” is different to “lazy” also.

He was committed in the tackle unlike some other players who shirked challenges.

I think @Sheltons Armymight be closer to the mark in terms of his desire to improve himself, or lack of it.  Maybe the penny might be about to drop.

I honestly don’t believe there was any agreement.  It was out in the open we had Dasilva option, which we took up, Kalas followed shortly after….and then a big gap to Palmer.

Ta for confirming.  Out of interest was the half n half bit near the truth?

If that is true, it’s nice and clean, shows KP is happy to take a paycut this season rather than sit around, or demand we top his Cov salary up for a season.  Sounds like he’s had good advice or decided himself his career is going nowhere unless he compromises.

So that saves £1m and cuts the deficit towards the P&S £39m amount.  That’s a good start.  Not perfect, but better than my worst fears.

⬇️⬇️⬇️

And I’ve seen Alex Scott give up chasing back, Andi Weimann too (even though he’s always labelled as runs around a lot).

Re “can’t sustain the determination over a period of games” playing Devil’s advocate, when has he had to chance to show that?

19/20 when playing with Afobe / Weimann making runs in a 3412 and Palmer playing well, he then is sub, starts, sub, etc, etc…losing momentum.

in 20/21 when returning from Swansea, he starts a few, then benched…gets back in in the lead-up to covid, scores a couple, then doesn’t start on the resumption.

His best form has come from starting 3 or 4 games, but then never really given the chance to build upon that.  Whose fault is that?  The honest answer is that neither of us know.

 

Surprised you’ve got the desire to have the same debate over and over!  Can’t say we will ever get close to agreeing on this.  I know that failed to impress is different to lazy. I never said they were the same. He both failed to impress and is lazy.  If he has barely had a run of games in his whole career, played for 6-7 clubs under many managers then I’d say that’s his fault. 

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Just now, And Its Smith said:

Surprised you’ve got the desire to have the same debate over and over!

So you can make your points over and over, but I can’t make mine back?

How does that work, sounds remarkably hypocritical to me? 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

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  • The title was changed to Palmer signs for Coventry

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