England vs Germany

[Bristol Oil Services]

16 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

 

I've seen us win in Berlin twice, for starters. 

I've seen us lose in Stuttgart, Dusseldorf and Frankfurt.

[RedRock]

Bellingham reminded me of Bakinson for 80 minutes. Last 10 minutes he stepped up though. 

Odd performance from the entire team. Looked dysfunctional and disinterested for most of the match, then half-decent for last 10-15 minutes. 
 

Mount’s a quality player. Quite how we totally isolated him to the level where he just ran around like a primary school kid I’ve no idea. Hopefully the Rice/Mount combination isn’t another Gerrard/Lampard conundrum. 

[wayne allisons tongues]

9 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

What? The most overrated player by the masses. Wrote off as a flop at Manc.

Be interesting to see how he does next season after a year of coaching from Pep.

Hopefully Southgate will let off the shackels  and let him play. doubt it though as Southgate is a not lose type of guy.

I reckon when Haaland starts for Man City Grealish will look a lot better in the Man City side. Personally think he plays better when there is a striker to aim at unlike at Man City where they play false 9. 

[Northern Red]

I thought Bellingham did alright given that he spent a fair bit of time having to fill in at RB due to Walker getting caught upfield.

[Kid in the Riot]

27 minutes ago, harrys said:

Such a shame that this manager doesn’t rate Grealish

He picked him and played him, what makes you think he doesn't rate him? 

[Alex_BCFC]

Was at game tonight - we only started to play after we went 1 down and Grealish coming on made a huge difference. Overall probably a fair result.

[CiderJar]

1 hour ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

I don’t mean to keep banging my negative England drum but why is Bellingham playing CDM? That just isn’t his position 

He came on for the injured Kalvin Phillips.Most other midfield options were attacking so unless he brought Connor Coady on I guess he was limited for choice. I thought he did well there.

Edited June 7, 2022 by CiderJar

[ORANGE500]

32 minutes ago, bris red said:

Not at our best these last 2 games but a draw in Germany is never a bad result.

People can call Southgate negative all they want (and they would be right to an extent) but the man gets us results and a semi final and final are testament to that.

 

 

I wouldn't say negative but lucky, The luck of the draw in 2  tournaments didn't have to beat too much to reach a final and a semi-final. Can he do it a third time? Who needs a good manager when you can have a lucky one. 

[Robbored]

19 minutes ago, ORANGE500 said:

I wouldn't say negative but lucky, The luck of the draw in 2  tournaments didn't have to beat too much to reach a final and a semi-final. Can he do it a third time? Who needs a good manager when you can have a lucky one. 

Southgate got England to European final losing on penalties but at no stage did he produce scintillating football and that’s what we can expect from him - dull and dreary football but he somehow manages to get results - exactly like one of our previous managers.

I nearly fell asleep watching the boring play from England which only changed when Grealish came on. No idea why Southgate doesn’t start him every game………..

[BUTOR]

I just get the feeling that the seeds of doubt regarding Southgate are there in the players minds post-Italy, and that perhaps egos are creeping in a little after two tournaments of harmony. Along with the added pressure of now being a squad of players who ‘really should be winning things’. Time will tell, have a few prognostic concerns about Qatar.

[Unan]

1 hour ago, Northern Red said:

That'll ruin a narrative or two.

E.g:

.

Can you expand?

[TV Tom]

8 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

He picked him and played him, what makes you think he doesn't rate him? 

He was sub, again

[Robbored]

58 minutes ago, harrys said:

He was sub, again

I assume Grealish is the subject here - I was half expecting JG not to start but was still disappointed that he was on the bench again.

I can only guess that Southgate has doubts about playing a ‘flair’ or luxury player who only performs in short bursts despite the fact that JG will win his team free kicks in dangerous positions and has the ability to create havoc as Gazza used to do.

If I were Grealish I’d be hugely frustrated at not getting a regular start under Southgate.

[The Bard]

10 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

I just get the feeling that the seeds of doubt regarding Southgate are there in the players minds post-Italy, and that perhaps egos are creeping in a little after two tournaments of harmony. Along with the added pressure of now being a squad of players who ‘really should be winning things’. Time will tell, have a few prognostic concerns about Qatar.

Egos is the main tbing. Especially the captain who plays for himself. can be solved with a couple of high profile droppings.

Need to be testing likes of JWP, Tammy & Timori. 4 games in a short space of time should mean this can happen. JWP only seems to play vs likes of Andorra.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

14 hours ago, maxjak said:

Might seem controversial...........but i think that knee on Phillips was a deliberate act?

Yeah me too . He really followed through in the challenge 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

10 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

I just get the feeling that the seeds of doubt regarding Southgate are there in the players minds post-Italy, and that perhaps egos are creeping in a little after two tournaments of harmony. Along with the added pressure of now being a squad of players who ‘really should be winning things’. Time will tell, have a few prognostic concerns about Qatar.

Yes me too I like Southgate fone lot of good for the team. But last nite when he bought Grealish and Bowen and we had proper runners to train at Germany we really caused problems. Ok a slight tactical adjustment too.

Still feel if he had given the ' go for this' aftevwecwent one up so early against Italy we would of been 2/3 up by half time and game won.

He sets up to stay on the game and then see where we are mid deconed half and adjust and substitute from that point. 

We are a bloody good international team and Ned be setting up to win games from the off.

Still believe this world cup is ours

 

 

[The Bard]

14 hours ago, RedRock said:

Masterclass from Southgate nullifying any threat from Mason Mount by playing him in the ‘invisible man’ role. 

Think we need to at least sort that issue out at HT. 

Ever considered the possibility that Mount is playing shite because he's out of form??

 

[rednotblue]

I can't help but feel Gareth Southgate needs to trust his squad a bit more.

It is a squad game now not just the first 11.

 I would be very interested to know what Mounts stats are for England in assists and goals vs. Grealish.

A three of Foden Grealish and Sterling behind the striker is a mouth watering prospect, however I dont think this has ever been tried?

Is playing two defensive midfielders necessary?

 

[KegCity]

Problem with Southgate is that he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes. He's done a horrendous job of managing big games on several occasions. I do think he understands what it takes to win knockout games though.

[Cowshed]

18 hours ago, Robbored said:

Southgate got England to European final losing on penalties but at no stage did he produce scintillating football and that’s what we can expect from him - dull and dreary football but he somehow manages to get results - exactly like one of our previous managers.

I nearly fell asleep watching the boring play from England which only changed when Grealish came on. No idea why Southgate doesn’t start him every game………..

Mr Southgate doesn't rate him tactically. 

8 hours ago, Robbored said:

I assume Grealish is the subject here - I was half expecting JG not to start but was still disappointed that he was on the bench again.

I can only guess that Southgate has doubts about playing a ‘flair’ or luxury player who only performs in short bursts despite the fact that JG will win his team free kicks in dangerous positions and has the ability to create havoc as Gazza used to do.

If I were Grealish I’d be hugely frustrated at not getting a regular start under Southgate.

There is no guessing. Mr Southgate has stated openly what the doubt is. Tactically the player in Grealish has to improve. 

Last night Grealish broke lines, had more touches in the opposition box than any team mate and had a very high level of ball retention. This has been a feature of his performances. Saka meanwhile does a lot less of the above but does run backwards a lot and get in shape.

If I were Grealish I would question if the coach wants the Jack Grealish at all.

In a team of 3 CBs, 2 FB's/WB's, 2 CDM's there is scope to have Grealish playing tactically as a freer eight, or free ten as his skills dictate. The point there is England are low on chance creation v possession. Tactically that costs the team in its biggest moments. Scoring one goal and attempting to concede nil has failed the team. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Cowshed

[Numero Uno]

19 hours ago, Northern Red said:

I thought Bellingham did alright given that he spent a fair bit of time having to fill in at RB due to Walker getting caught upfield.

Which tells me he’s an 18 year old kid with a football brain. Once the inconsistency disappears he will take off.

[Numero Uno]

39 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Mr Southgate doesn't rate him tactically. 

There is no guessing. Mr Southgate has stated openly what the doubt is. Tactically the player in Grealish has to improve. 

Last night Grealish broke lines, had more touches in the opposition box than any team mate and had a very high level of ball retention. This has been a feature of his performances. Saka meanwhile does a lot less of the above but does run backwards a lot and get in shape.

If I were Grealish I would question if the coach wants the Jack Grealish at all.

In a team of 3 CBs, 2 FB's/WB's, 2 CDM's there is scope to have Grealish playing tactically as a freer eight, or free ten as his skills dictate. The point there is England are low on chance creation v possession. Tactically that costs the team in its biggest moments. Scoring one goal and attempting to concede nil has failed the team. 

Have to agree. With Grealish out there we were able to retain possession and dominated the last 15 minutes. We could easily have won that in the end. Bowen being direct (direct is good if done the right way) also helped us out.

[MarcusX]

On 07/06/2022 at 21:40, The Batman said:

Offside and a dive. Clipped his own heels when he realised he wouldn't get the ball. 

Wrong on both counts there, certainly not a dive even if he clips his own heels. There was contact though, could call it soft but if I clipped your ankle while running you'd probably go flying - just look at Rugby ankle taps

 

On 07/06/2022 at 21:54, Kid in the Riot said:

Never offside, quite clearly came off a German player. 

I was thinking, for the amount England fans moan, when was the last time we actually lost against Germany over there? Our record has been excellent since 2001.

I've seen us win in Berlin twice, for starters. 

The last time we played there. 1-0 in 2017

On 07/06/2022 at 22:10, bris red said:

Not at our best these last 2 games but a draw in Germany is never a bad result.

People can call Southgate negative all they want (and they would be right to an extent) but the man gets us results and a semi final and final are testament to that.

 

 

I agree and I like Southgate for what he's done, but I do wonder if we'd be better with a braver manager?

[TonyTonyTony]

3 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I agree and I like Southgate for what he's done, but I do wonder if we'd be better with a braver manager?

100% agree. We have come close, and this WC feels like it's now or never with the recent tournament experience, talent pool and its midseason for our players. Playing 3 CB's and 2 DM's is too conservative. His stubborn reliance on Mount/Sterling is also questionable. Its a tough call, but i also wish he would be a bit braver.

[Bris Red]

2 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

 

I agree and I like Southgate for what he's done, but I do wonder if we'd be better with a braver manager?

Maybe. I think this world cup is massive for Southgate to be honest.

I think the FA have accepted the cautious and at times pretty negative football dished up by Southgate and his management team as they have yielded a major tournament sem-final and final.

It’s when the wins stop coming in and we get dumped out in the early stages of a tournament whilst still be playing such dull negative football that i think Southgate is going to have a problem.
 

Hoping we can get to at least the Semi’s in Qatar and to be honest it wouldn’t surprise me if we did to be honest. This England team does seem to have the knack of doing it when it really matters.

[MarcusX]

On 07/06/2022 at 23:15, Robbored said:

Southgate got England to European final losing on penalties but at no stage did he produce scintillating football and that’s what we can expect from him - dull and dreary football but he somehow manages to get results - exactly like one of our previous managers.

I nearly fell asleep watching the boring play from England which only changed when Grealish came on. No idea why Southgate doesn’t start him every game………..

I don't care how we do it if we win. The excitement comes in the form of the hope building for the next game.

Besides, Germany and Ukraine were great performances. Nothing dull and dreary about brushing the Germans aside in a knockout game and smashing our way through a quarter final.

Same for our season under the manager you refer to. No one cares about performances when you're winning.

[MarcusX]

1 minute ago, bris red said:

Maybe. I think this world cup is massive for Southgate to be honest.

I think the FA have accepted the cautious and at times pretty negative football dished up by Southgate and his management team as they have yielded a major tournament sem-final and final.

It’s when the wins stop coming in and we get dumped out in the early stages of a tournament whilst still be playing such dull negative football that i think Southgate is going to have a problem.
 

Hoping we can get to at least the Semi’s in Qatar and to be honest it wouldn’t surprise me if we did to be honest. This England team does seem to have the knack of doing it when it really matters.

Don't forget this is the one the FA have targeted to win. He's shown improvement in the last two tournaments but you're right this is massive.

Agree and like my comment above, no one cares much about the performances if we're winning. I'll happily watch a repeat of the Euros if it gets us to a final (I didn't even think it was *that* bad except Scotland)

Semi's still feel like a success in my time watching England. Was only just old enough to remember Euro 96, I remember the tournament being on but can't remember the games so for me it was always quarter finals, play someone half decent, out we go. 

[TV Tom]

Just now, bris red said:

Maybe. I think this world cup is massive for Southgate to be honest.

I think the FA have accepted the cautious and at times pretty negative football dished up by Southgate and his management team as they have yielded a major tournament sem-final and final.

It’s when the wins stop coming in and we get dumped out in the early stages of a tournament whilst still be playing such dull negative football that i think Southgate is going to have a problem.
 

Hoping we can get to at least the Semi’s in Qatar and to be honest it wouldn’t surprise me if we did to be honest. This England team does seem to have the knack of doing it when it really matters.

Most managers we’ve had had have been far too cautious with the odd exception, if we are going to have an English manager I’d have Potter in now, might actually have a chance of winning the WC then

[phantom]

I bet this doesn't make as big as headlines as the handful of arrests made 

[phantom]

3 hours ago, harrys said:

Most managers we’ve had had have been far too cautious with the odd exception, if we are going to have an English manager I’d have Potter in now, might actually have a chance of winning the WC then

This guy already looks like a ready made replacement