Back 4 or 5?

[RedRoss]

I can see alot of posts with a selected back four for next season.

Just curious to why considering we've signed Naismith who's predominantly played in his newly acquired position of CB in a back 5 with Luton and hopefully the incoming of Wilson who is also a wing back.

How do you think we will set up next season?

[Phileas Fogg]

It’ll probably depend on the opposition and who’s fit. I don’t think Pearson is recruiting for a system (ala Cotterill 2014) as such. I think he’s bringing in versatile players who can be used in a variety of systems.

Last season I think we used a back 5 mainly down to who was fit. Clearly using Scott and Benarous as wingbacks was a sticking plaster solution as wingbacks need to be specialists really.

Cotterill became particularly interested in a 532 system after attending a coaching seminar on it. He recruited specifically for that system with great success in 2014. I predict we will be pretty versatile and have a variety of systems as the season goes on.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Phileas Fogg

[BCFCGav]

I think we'll stick to the 5, and I hope we do too.

First choice:

Wilson, Atkinson, Klose, Naismith, Dasilva

Tanner covers Wilson, Pring covers Dasilva, Kalas and hopefully Baker cover the centre halves. Maybe Cundy. 

[TammyAB]

My prediction of the team in Nige’s head at the mo:

Bentley; Kalas, Klose, Naismith; Wilson, Scott, Williams, Dasilva; Weimann; Martin, Semenyo (3-4-1-2).

[LondonBristolian]

Given our shape, I don't think there's really that much of a difference between a back 4 and a back 5.

Assuming there are no key departures, I think it is a given that 10 of the players will line up as follows:

------------------------------------------GK

---------------------RCB--------------------------------LCB

RWB-----------------------------------------------------------------------LWB

-----------------------------CM------------------CM

---------------------------------------AM

----------------------------ST--------------------ST

 

There is then a question as to whether the eleventh player is a deep midfielder screening the defence or a third centre-back. But I don't think the answer significantly changes our basic shape and nor do I necessarily think the answer will be the same every game. 

[And Its Smith]

Purchasing smells like a back 5 to me 

[ProfitInMyPocket]

With the front three we play we haven't got the midfield or defence to play a back four without getting countered, stick with the 5 with hard working wingbacks and then at least we have some width.

 

[Bar BS3]

2 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

I think we'll stick to the 5, and I hope we do too.

First choice:

Wilson, Atkinson, Klose, Naismith, Dasilva

Tanner covers Wilson, Pring covers Dasilva, Kalas and hopefully Baker cover the centre halves. Maybe Cundy. 

You wouldn't have Kalas in your first choice defence...?! 

[BCFCGav]

7 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

You wouldn't have Kalas in your first choice defence...?! 

Don't get me wrong I like Kalas, but Klose seems a good leader/guide for the whole back line, Atkinson looks solid an will be our best defender in a few years time (imo) and Naismith is coming off the back of the best season of any of them. So he'd have to earn his place back, something he's definitely capable of doing. 

[Supersonic Robin]

I'm unsure on this too. As others have said, Pearson appears to value versatility, so it may be that we're not recruiting for one specific formation. Some ramblings on this:

I wouldn't actually be too surprised to see Naismith used at LB in a back 4. (e.g. Wilson, Kalas, Atkinson, Naismith). It feels as though LB is a weaker position for us in a back 4 than LCB. 

A back 5 (or 3, same thing) looks like it may suit our full backs a bit more (especially Wilson and Dasilva). Feels like we may have a small issue to address at RCB in a back 3? Kalas is the only option that I especially like there given that our other CB's are either A) left footed, or B) lack a bit of athleticism in covering the channel. No major concern, but just something to consider.

Also interesting to consider the impact on the midfield. Assuming the structure of the front 3 (or 2 with 1 behind) is relative fixed, then we'd likely be looking at either a 3-4-1-2, or a 4-3-1-2.  Hence, a back 4 allows you to get an extra CM in. In the event that we play a 3-4-1-2, which CM do you drop from Williams, Scott, and an expected new CDM (e.g. Rinomhota)? I suppose the other option is that you play all 3 with Scott in the "Weimann role", then stick Weimann up front with Semenyo, and move Martin to the bench?

 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

A back 5 (or 3, same thing) looks like it may suit our full backs a bit more (especially Wilson and Dasilva). Feels like we may have a small issue to address at RCB in a back 3? Kalas is the only option that I especially like there given that our other CB's are either A) left footed, or B) lack a bit of athleticism in covering the channel. No major concern, but just something to consider.

I think Klose would play RCB3 too…naturally righ-footed, played most of his career on the RHS of defence, showed last season he doesn’t get exposed when “dragged” into wide areas.

Obviously we don’t know what’s happening with Kalas, but if he stays, Kalas, Klose, Naismith, Atkinson is a good starting point for CB options in a pair or threesome.

[ORANGE500]

22 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Don't get me wrong I like Kalas, but Klose seems a good leader/guide for the whole back line, Atkinson looks solid an will be our best defender in a few years time (imo) and Naismith is coming off the back of the best season of any of them. So he'd have to earn his place back, something he's definitely capable of doing. 

Kalas will hopefully be sold on recoup a small amount of the vast fee Chelsea managed to get(the term saw them coming springs to mind) from city. His performances have  been ok or average for most of his time at the club, taking into account the fee and salary must rank as one of the worst signings in recent times.

[the1stknowle]

2 hours ago, TammyAB said:

My prediction of the team in Nige’s head at the mo:

Bentley; Kalas, Klose, Naismith; Wilson, Scott, Williams, Dasilva; Weimann; Martin, Semenyo (3-4-1-2).

Surely Atkinson was our best player in last part of season just gone. 

[Supersonic Robin]

33 minutes ago, ORANGE500 said:

Kalas will hopefully be sold on recoup a small amount of the vast fee Chelsea managed to get(the term saw them coming springs to mind) from city. His performances have  been ok or average for most of his time at the club, taking into account the fee and salary must rank as one of the worst signings in recent times.

He wasn't great value for money, but in fairness he was probably our best outfield player for a period of about 12-18 months or so. He and Bentley saved us quite frequently during the Holden season (2020/21).

IMO the title of worst value signing has one clear winner - Kasey Palmer. Perhaps Engvall offers some competition? Though I can't imagine Engvall was on a particularly large wage.

[glastored]

So where will Sykes fit in? Nobody’s mentioned him…

[eardun]

3 hours ago, glastored said:

So where will Sykes fit in? Nobody’s mentioned him…

Seems to be one of those players who can play in a number of positions but presume he has been signed to give us more attacking options in midfield, front 3 or right wing. Replacement for O’Dowda and Palmer in effect - and bang in line with Gould’s statement that we must get full value for money from every pound spent 

[steviestevieneville]

4 hours ago, glastored said:

So where will Sykes fit in? Nobody’s mentioned him…

He’s a midfielder 

[The Bard]

I think we'll favour a back 3 with the ability to change to a 4 if needed.  Think our likely squad will reflect this.

Gonna make the following assumptions:-

Bentley & O'Leary will stay with no new keeper coming in. Possibly 2 new contracts.

Baker not involved. Moore  won't be here. Vyner will be. One of Idehen and Towler out on loan, the other remains. Kalas sold. Either Cundy or this Horsfall also here.

That would give us following defensive options. 

Tanner, Wilson, Dasilva, Pring, Atkinson,  Klose, Naismith, Cundy / Horsfall, Vyner, Towler / Idehen.

In midfield King will stay but be bit part. HNM & Bakinson will leave. We will sign a replacement for HNM.  Sykes has been signed as understudy to Weimann who will be rested a bit more next year.

James, King, Scott, Sykes, Benarous, Williams, Owers + 1 other.

Up front, little change unless someone offers Wells a good deal or silly money for Weimann or Semenyo. Conway to be more involved. Outside chance of a long term replacement for Martin being signed and gradually introduced.

We now need to get rid of players having made some good signings.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

I don't like second guessing managers, even more so with Pearson, but if we stick to a 5 then it's a central 3 of Naismith, Atkinson and Klose with Wilson and Dasilva right and left wingback respectively. As pointed out already Tanner will shadow Wilson and Pring for Dasilva. Kalas and Cundy (if they're still here will have to satisfy themselves with a place on the bench, alongside Alex Scott as with Wilson's arrival, and to a lesser extent Sykes, I'm not too sure where he starts with Nige seemingly favouring Williams and James as the CM 2, and his preference for Weimann in the 10 role behind Semenyo and Martin who I don't see him dropping. 

[Carey 6]

I think it'll be a back 5. 

If Moore & Vyner are likely to leave, I also think we're one CB short with Kalas, Klose, Naismith & Atkinson being your first choices.

Idehen we've not seen enough of & Towler isn't ready for the level yet.

[Monkeh]

Back 3 with wing backs,

So 5 at the back when defending maybe even 6 with a good defensive midfield

And 3 at the back when attacking maybe even two when a member of the defense is involved

The key obviously is athletic wing backs 

[1960maaan]

Having Atkinson, Klose & Naismith. With possibly Kalas & Cundy, not to forget Idehen there are enough CB's for a 3
Wilson's signing hints at a 3 IMO, plus for my money JD best position is wing back.
Add that we had a reasonable end to the season when we managed some continuity , it looks like a 3.

This early on though, no one can say for sure, except Nige, and he ain't gonna tell you.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I am leaning towards a back 4...as I think the risk of 2 v 1 overloads in wide areas is greater in a 3-5-2 say or 3-4-1-2 as per last season can see us exposed 3 v 2 in central areas.

Can Wilson play RB too or is he predominantly a RWB? I can see logic to a back 5 but I also see tactical holes that can be exploited quite well- if we have someone like Naismith as part of it then we can shift in game to a 4-3-3 more readily say, thereby fixing tactical dilemmas a bit.

[BCFC Rich]

4 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Having Atkinson, Klose & Naismith. With possibly Kalas & Cundy, not to forget Idehen there are enough CB's for a 3
Wilson's signing hints at a 3 IMO, plus for my money JD best position is wing back.
Add that we had a reasonable end to the season when we managed some continuity , it looks like a 3.

This early on though, no one can say for sure, except Nige, and he ain't gonna tell you.

I think recruitment (so far) suggest you are right.

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I am leaning towards a back 4...as I think the risk of 2 v 1 overloads in wide areas is greater in a 3-5-2 say or 3-4-1-2 as per last season can see us exposed 3 v 2 in central areas.

Can Wilson play RB too or is he predominantly a RWB? I can see logic to a back 5 but I also see tactical holes that can be exploited quite well- if we have someone like Naismith as part of it then we can shift in game to a 4-3-3 more readily say, thereby fixing tactical dilemmas a bit.

I agree, also If we have the same system as last season then you are asking a lot of the 2 centre mids. I think we look like we are going back 5 though. for that to work I think everyone needs to have really good positional awareness. At various times CB's will need to step up to support midfield and Wing backs will need to tuck in.

[Robbored]

There’ll be plenty of options available to Nige with the re-signing of Klose the addition of Nailsmith, Sykes and Wilson and I guess he’ll opt for utilising wing backs which suggests 3 CBs.

We might get a clue in the pre-season matches.

[YGBjammy]

I reckon 3412 like we played at the end of this season. 

                            Bentley

            Atkinson Klose Naismith

Wilson     Williams     James(?)      DaSilva

                            Weimann

                    Semenyo   Martin

 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

Can see Vyner, Kala's, and Moore going. and I think he wants flexibility in defence to change as different opponents require and be able to change during the game as well. Flexibility is the key I feel