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Plymouth Argyle pre-season friendly match day thread


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57 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Having just watched the highlights, that’ll be very much classed as a competitive run out for the legs by the coaching staff. Very much over-run with 2 in midfield, especially if the midfield pairing are all over the shop, as seemingly the case today.

Not sure Andy King did much to support Han-Noah today (although I thought they were good together v Cheltenham).  I thought Han had a good game today.  Also, if you want Andi Weimann’s dynamism playing in the hole, then you have to take the downsides that go with it.  It’s not as black and white as that, but you get the gist.

I said to Harry at h-t that I don’t think our back three coped that well with Azaz and Jephcott (in particular) playing withdrawn from Hardie.  They played a 3421 “box” a bit like Coventry do, and they create overloads centrally.  It meant a CB was spare (my pet hate with a back 3 against a one striker attack).  Interestingly, Curtis Fleming made the exact point after the game, and says it was a good learning experience and they now know what to do if other teams do that.  Really Vyner (more than Atkinson) should’ve pushed into midfield to give Han and Kingy some help.

Ultimately this is what pre-season is about.

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36 minutes ago, pillred said:

A rather annoying millennial phrase only used by people under about 30 ish. I suppose when I used the term groovy baby it pissed of my parents as well. 

Interestingly the first recorded use of “my bad” in the context it was used in this thread was by Louis Armstrong on the Ed Sullivan show in 1956. It then was common in US slang from the 1970s. I think it probably started being used in the UK in the 90s off the back of teen films and tv shows but people under 30 would find it a bit dated and old-fashioned…

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15 hours ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Well if you mix sun booze and idiots you will always get weird behaviour.

Yep. Singing at a young girl your dad is a n**ce is pathetic tbh. Like you said idiots.

Edited by Super
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13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Rotherham on a free transfer.  Good coup for Plymouth, but history suggests at 26 he’s at his level though in Lg1.

Clark didn’t come on…🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️
 

(Or is that a whoosh)

There are some things to read into friendlies, but not necessarily result or performance.

Unless all the players that missed today through injury or test (Kalas, Semenyo, Naismith, James, Williams and Scott, etc) are all unavailable for Hull City (a) that will be nothing like the side for our opening game.  So why do some need to be so critical / over-critical?

Today was a good test, just what we wanted against a top eight Lg1 team, who pretty much playing their best eleven.

I thought Atkinson played well, Han-Noah and Weimann too.

Klose got caught a bit by Hardie’s movement, and King didn’t get on the ball enough to give Massengo more licence. Han created a few chances for others by pinching the ball high up.

Tanner not got the skills to dribble past his man, so needs good early ball to use the space, he didn’t really get that from Vyner today…nor was someone like Joe Williams playing to ping him early either.

But at the end of the day, 90s, 60s and 30s for the squad as they build their match fitness.


just seen he didn’t come on!! The Plymouth bloke reading out deffo said his name haha

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9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Not sure Andy King did much to support Han-Noah today (although I thought they were good together v Cheltenham).  I thought Han had a good game today.  Also, if you want Andi Weimann’s dynamism playing in the hole, then you have to take the downsides that go with it.  It’s not as black and white as that, but you get the gist.

I said to Harry at h-t that I don’t think our back three coped that well with Azaz and Jephcott (in particular) playing withdrawn from Hardie.  They played a 3421 “box” a bit like Coventry do, and they create overloads centrally.  It meant a CB was spare (my pet hate with a back 3 against a one striker attack).  Interestingly, Curtis Fleming made the exact point after the game, and says it was a good learning experience and they now know what to do if other teams do that.  Really Vyner (more than Atkinson) should’ve pushed into midfield to give Han and Kingy some help.

Ultimately this is what pre-season is about.

I think Curtis was being very kind tbh. At that level if you play a system you will also know ALL the ways of playing against it before you even step onto the pitch (nothing like doing it for real I admit).

We’re not talking sodding Toolstation football here. They should know the plan whatever the system against them and really shouldn’t need to be learning it for the first time in a pre-season game or at least they should be learning very quickly and putting it right on the job at the time not needing to watch videos of it on Monday.

If certain players haven’t grasped that kind of thing by now they have to be on borrowed time? It’s a shame but some of our “no longer younger lads” just haven’t grasped the opportunity handed to them. It’s also disappointing that experienced lads alongside them aren’t putting them right either. It’s basic management of the game as it unfolds. I wonder if it would have been different if Naismith was out there?

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2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I think Curtis was being very kind tbh. At that level if you play a system you will also know ALL the ways of playing against it before you even step onto the pitch (nothing like doing it for real I admit).

We’re not talking sodding Toolstation football here. They should know the plan whatever the system against them and really shouldn’t need to be learning it for the first time in a pre-season game or at least they should be learning very quickly and putting it right on the job at the time not needing to watch videos of it on Monday.

If certain players haven’t grasped that kind of thing by now they have to be on borrowed time? It’s a shame but some of our “no longer younger lads” just haven’t grasped the opportunity handed to them. It’s also disappointing that experienced lads alongside them aren’t putting them right either. It’s basic management of the game as it unfolds. I wonder if it would have been different if Naismith was out there?

Errrr that's what preseason is about, learning new systems getting fit and experimenting 

Edited by Monkeh
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1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

Errrr that's what preseason is about, learning new systems getting fit and experimenting 

Aside from being a bit patronising and assuming I don’t know the purpose of pre-season you are also reading what suits your point from my post and not what I am actually saying. Experiment and all that stuff I get but certain things should be KNOWN by professionals before they even step out onto the pitch meaning problems can be put right quickly. We aren’t playing a new system either.

Good players adapt on the spot. This is the whole mantra of Academy football right down to 8 years old…….we give you a new problem, can you work out a solution yourself? The problems get more technical as you go up the age groups. Those that have to be told or shown every last detail will fall by the wayside at most clubs.

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7 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Errrr that's what preseason is about, learning new systems getting fit and experimenting 

No no no, it's about proving you are the perfect player for your position in this team. If they aren't perfect by now then they will never learn and we will have to use our unlimited resources to replace them.

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15 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

No no no, it's about proving you are the perfect player for your position in this team. If they aren't perfect by now then they will never learn and we will have to use our unlimited resources to replace them.

Nobody is saying that either. It’s all a bit childish, in fact it’s really childish. Pointing out that our back three never solved a basic problem that they should have the ability, experience and tactical awareness to deal with yesterday is nothing like the same as losing your shit totally and predicting relegation because we only beat Plymouth 1-0 with seven players missing. Bristol Boy or whoever he is will be the starting point for that one.

If you don’t like posts that talk about the tactical or technical side of how the game was played either ignore them or interpret them correctly before posting sarcasm.

Edited by Numero Uno
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5 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Nobody is saying that either. It’s all a bit childish, in fact it’s really childish. Pointing out that our back three never solved a basic problem that they should have the ability, experience and tactical awareness to deal with yesterday is nothing like the same as losing your shit totally and predicting relegation because we only beat Plymouth 1-0 with seven players missing. Bristol Boy or whoever he is will be the starting point for that one.

If you don’t like posts that talk about how the tactical or technical side of how the game was played either ignore them or interpret them correctly before posting sarcasm.

No, you should consider what you are posting and the terms your opinion is couched in. It's a practice game, I e. A game for them to practice things in, if they solved the problem during the game that's great, if they don't then the coaches step in and discuss potential options for them to use next time.

Your post erroneously suggests that because they couldn't solve this particular problem their careers to this point have been useless and that they will never make it in the game.

That's your opinion, but don't get defensive when people disagree with it 

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37 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I think Curtis was being very kind tbh. At that level if you play a system you will also know ALL the ways of playing against it before you even step onto the pitch (nothing like doing it for real I admit).

We’re not talking sodding Toolstation football here. They should know the plan whatever the system against them and really shouldn’t need to be learning it for the first time in a pre-season game or at least they should be learning very quickly and putting it right on the job at the time not needing to watch videos of it on Monday.

If certain players haven’t grasped that kind of thing by now they have to be on borrowed time? It’s a shame but some of our “no longer younger lads” just haven’t grasped the opportunity handed to them. It’s also disappointing that experienced lads alongside them aren’t putting them right either. It’s basic management of the game as it unfolds. I wonder if it would have been different if Naismith was out there?

I think it was Jason E doing the post match interviews. At least on the official site. Did not see Curtis being interviewed. 

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1 minute ago, Port Said Red said:

No, you should consider what you are posting and the terms your opinion is couched in. It's a practice game, I e. A game for them to practice things in, if they solved the problem during the game that's great, if they don't then the coaches step in and discuss potential options for them to use next time.

Your post erroneously suggests that because they couldn't solve this particular problem their careers to this point have been useless and that they will never make it in the game.

That's your opinion, but don't get defensive when people disagree with it 

Useless? Where do I say useless? Or that they will never make it IN THE GAME (not quite the same as AT THIS LEVEL). You do have a tendency to mis-comprehend for the purposes of debate!!


In the case of Vyner I do wonder whether he has the ability or mindset to learn at our level and beyond. That’s not just based on yesterday although that was yet another example (of far too many examples in my view) indicating a habit of not getting to grips with the unfolding game. In terms of Klose and Atkinson it is disappointing that they didn’t solve the problem but I’m not knocking their careers so far. With Vyner, I’m still waiting for the kid to show me he’s a 35 game per season plus Championship player.

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6 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

I think it was Jason E doing the post match interviews. At least on the official site. Did not see Curtis being interviewed. 

Curtis is the ultimate professional. He won’t be bagging players in public and neither should he at this point. I can guarantee he would have asked the question afterwards because the problems Plymouth were posing would have been obvious to him and the rest of the staff. This is where I think Naismith can be a big player for us.

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15 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Curtis is the ultimate professional. He won’t be bagging players in public and neither should he at this point. I can guarantee he would have asked the question afterwards because the problems Plymouth were posing would have been obvious to him and the rest of the staff. This is where I think Naismith can be a big player for us.

Not sure I understand the reply . Curtis was not being interviewed post match . It was Jason , who raised the point . You said Curtis was being kind. He was not interviewed , it was Jason . 

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3 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Not sure I understand the reply . Curtis was not being interviewed post match . It was Jason , who raised the point . You said Curtis was being kind. He was not interviewed , it was Jason . 

Ok, my response was to someone who said they heard an interview from Curtis and quoted him. Either they got names mixed up which is no biggie or he was interviewed elsewhere and made the same point. Not quite the same as watching the game and telling everyone Matty James was not playing well😂 Either way whoever raised the point doesn’t change my view on it. Swap Curtis for Jason and the point is exactly the same.

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58 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Vyner - not fit for purpose.

Time we said goodbye.

Poor old Zak. Must be a difficult situation for him as he will know with the players we have he’s very unlikely to get any game time here unless we have a flurry of injuries.

As for his performance yesterday he just  looks like he has zero confidence. I am not sure if he will have many takers but it’s best for all he’s moved on now if we can.

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5 minutes ago, Taylor10 said:

Poor old Zak. Must be a difficult situation for him as he will know with the players we have he’s very unlikely to get any game time here unless we have a flurry of injuries.

As for his performance yesterday he just  looks like he has zero confidence. I am not sure if he will have many takers but it’s best for all he’s moved on now if we can.

If he dropped down a level I think he would have a good choice of clubs tbf. Not so sure Championship clubs would be forming an orderly queue round the block.

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I understand its only a friendly but I think Plymouth were the better team overall yesterday. I thought we were poor and just glad it was only a friendly.

Without trying to make them scapegoats I thought Vyner and King gave the ball away too much with wayward passes. It really didn't help with building attacks. They always try the blockbuster passes but they never come off.

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1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

I think Curtis was being very kind tbh. At that level if you play a system you will also know ALL the ways of playing against it before you even step onto the pitch (nothing like doing it for real I admit).

We’re not talking sodding Toolstation football here. They should know the plan whatever the system against them and really shouldn’t need to be learning it for the first time in a pre-season game or at least they should be learning very quickly and putting it right on the job at the time not needing to watch videos of it on Monday.

If certain players haven’t grasped that kind of thing by now they have to be on borrowed time? It’s a shame but some of our “no longer younger lads” just haven’t grasped the opportunity handed to them. It’s also disappointing that experienced lads alongside them aren’t putting them right either. It’s basic management of the game as it unfolds. I wonder if it would have been different if Naismith was out there?

They may know the theory of playing against an opposition box, but executing it is a different matter.  Made more difficult because Jephcott did just play RHS and Azaz LHS of the “box”….Jephcott often overloaded further in Azaz’s space, which makes it even harder.  Ultimately I think Vyner should should’ve stepped into an advanced marking role on Azaz, he was the more fixed position of the two.  He didn’t need to protect Tanner against Miller, because had he negated Azaz’s space, Tanner can go tighter to Miller.

Id have liked to have thought Klose would’ve sorted that, but I think he was having his own battles with Hardie who gave him an uncomfortable afternoon, partly because we didn’t get a good grip in front of him.  Lots of little things not quite right to join together to cause us probs.

Ultimately they didn’t sort it out….and although I don’t by any stretch think Zak is crap, it’s probably another example of why at RCB3 he isn’t quite good enough.  That’s not me trying to scapegoat him, just that he hasn’t kicked on from the start of 20/21 season, where he was showing signs of being okay at this level…I think he has regressed a bit.

1 hour ago, Carey 6 said:

I didn’t watch yesterdays match but a lot mentioning Wilson again. Do we think we could be seeing an Adomah type situation where most attacks it’s going to be get the ball out to him and see what he does?

We are definitely gonna play down the flanks this season.  That’s the intention imho…but if teams station defenders wide to counter it, then we then create more room for the likes of Weimann.

26 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Ok, my response was to someone who said they heard an interview from Curtis and quoted him. Either they got names mixed up which is no biggie or he was interviewed elsewhere and made the same point. Not quite the same as watching the game and telling everyone Matty James was not playing well😂 Either way whoever raised the point doesn’t change my view on it. Swap Curtis for Jason and the point is exactly the same.

Yeah, ‘twas me…meant Euell.

Should I say “my bad”?

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48 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Ok, my response was to someone who said they heard an interview from Curtis and quoted him. Either they got names mixed up which is no biggie or he was interviewed elsewhere and made the same point. Not quite the same as watching the game and telling everyone Matty James was not playing well😂 Either way whoever raised the point doesn’t change my view on it. Swap Curtis for Jason and the point is exactly the same.

Yes I did see the James comment ! But on your point , regarding finding solutions , I do agree . As we were found last season with centre midfield under staffed and a back 3 marking one player with loads of space behind the wingbacks . I was hoping there had been progress in this regard . There maybe was with Naismith playing in previous match. But they need to work this stuff out rapidly . Plymouth are a decent side but asked too many questions  of our formation without any adaptation . First half in particular . 

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I had to have a bit of a chuckle, I was watching the highlights of the Plymouth ARG game on Bristol live when my grandson who loves the Aussie Rules game but also follows "Pa's" BCFC came in to see the clips. His reaction was "Oh are City playing ARGentina Pa".

No,........................ not just yet mate :laughcont:

Forever the optimist in me coming out.

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