Nigel Pearson will be on Sounds of the City Monday 25th July

[Atticus]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Is he not committed to the club? He signed a contract and is still under that contract. Always seems to put in maximum effort.  Yes it’s frustrating that he won’t sign a new contract but that’s his right. As long as he is putting in the effort on the pitch and in training then he has my respect.  

I'd suggest it's a player that has his eye on the season after.

That's not hard to make that ascertain is it.

Just now, Atticus said:

I'd suggest it's a player that has his eye on the season after.

That's not hard to make that ascertain is it.

Again. Why would a manager want to play a player that already has his eye on the future?

 

[SBB]

20 minutes ago, Atticus said:

I'd suggest it's a player that has his eye on the season after.

That's not hard to make that ascertain is it.

Again. Why would a manager want to play a player that already has his eye on the future?

 

What makes you think his mind is on next season? He may want to move on when his contact expires but that doesn’t mean he’s not committed  this season. I’m sure if he’s called upon and NP plays him, he’ll give his all…. Unlike the waste of space we had ip front a season or two ago.

Edited July 26, 2022 by SBB
Typo. Trying to text while driving

[Gazred]

Decent piece here on the situation being discussed. For wider conversation, Wenger probably got it right?

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/wengers-prophesy-powerless-pearson-odowda-7384718

[Atticus]

2 hours ago, SBB said:

What makes you think his mind is on next season? He may want to move on when his contact expires but that doesn’t mean he’s not committed  this season. I’m sure if he’s called upon and NP plays him, he’ll give his all…. Unlike the waste of space we had ip front a season or two ago.

Hm. Well, disagree. A player that won't sign a new contract, as young as him, would almost certainly have his eyes on the future as opposed to the season ahead. Its natural.

 

And clearly Nigel agrees to some extent. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Atticus

[Dullmoan Tone]

What’s particularly insightful is NP saying there has been no interest in him. That is designed to destabilise his confidence. I know he’s young and popular but I reckon he’s had about four outstanding 90 minute performances.

Clearly he has to be consistently impactful to attract the attention of the Premier / top Leagues in Europe.

That said, I wish Pearson wouldn’t try these mind games in public (like with Backinson) it doesn’t seem fair on young players, who are probably simply following their agents strategy to get better deals.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

What’s particularly insightful is NP saying there has been no interest in him. That is designed to destabilise his confidence. I know he’s young and popular but I reckon he’s had about four outstanding 90 minute performances.

Clearly he has to be consistently impactful to attract the attention of the Premier / top Leagues in Europe.

That said, I wish Pearson wouldn’t try these mind games in public (like with Backinson) it doesn’t seem fair on young players, who are probably simply following their agents strategy to get better deals.

In fairness the contract offer has been on the table for 8+ months.  I really, really want Han to sign it, but as manager you can’t formulate plans either with him or without him if you don’t know what he’s gonna do.

All he’s said is he becomes more of a fringe / squad player at this point in time.  Nige won’t bear a grudge, if he signs, I suspect Nige will be delighted.

It isn’t mind games at all, it’s just answering the question honestly.  He did what he said with Bakinson didn’t he?  He doesn’t really make idle threats, he will challenge players though.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Davefevs

[AshtonGreat]

10 hours ago, spudski said:

Just to confirm...HNM's Agent/Advisor is his father. 

He, his wife and 5 sisters moved here to be with Han.

I agree that City are seen as a stepping stone in his development and career.

Whilst they maybe happy with his development and how the club look after him, I feel not enough starts last season maybe why they are stalling.

He came here to play football.

On a side note...Kaliffe Cisse was playing a big role in his development here. 

Is he still with us?

Han-Noah and his sisters. I can feel a Woody Allen film coming on...

Edited July 26, 2022 by AshtonGreat

[samo II]

HNM, Palmer, COD…

For me they represent last of the echos of the old way of doing things, where it was more like accumulating lottery tickets and hoping one would pay off a la Webster, compared to building a team.

The model was flawed anyway, as several of the best sales we made weren’t ‘assets’ brought in but players developed here like Bobby Reid and Joe Bryan, but those in charge still thought it would be the way we’d progress, despite key figures getting shipped out regularly.

Feel somewhat sorry for HNM as he likely got sold a bit if a line, but despite that - need to be practical: can’t be having someone taking up a key role/starting position when they likely are gone as soon as they can. Better lose minutes go to players who are committed; just makes sense.

[And Its Smith]

4 hours ago, Atticus said:

I'd suggest it's a player that has his eye on the season after.

That's not hard to make that ascertain is it.

Again. Why would a manager want to play a player that already has his eye on the future?

 

That might say more about you than him. When I last handed my notice in and worked a month for what would soon be my former employer, I didn’t try any less.   I think HNM would be the same 

[AshtonRobin21]

I remember GJ freezing out Bradley Orr once upon a time due to him refusing to sign a new contract. 

Orr then back-tracked and signed the deal. 

Peterborough take a harsh approach to players who won't sign new contracts. They are instantly placed on the transfer list, regardless of their importance to the squad. 

[The Constant Rabbit]

14 hours ago, SecretSam said:

Calm down, sport, you could have said "I wasn't able to listen, I'm in Australia"

 

11 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Missed the Aussie flag to indicate lack of initiative . The internet must be working so you have no excuses . You don’t even need a VPN for non live sport. But I’m  not doing your homework for you. It’s very easy to find and play . Even in Oz . So , zero excuses , and still hence my question. 

Sorry chaps - have Covid and feel shit, but no excuse for being rude.

 

Apologies

[Taz]

48 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

I remember GJ freezing out Bradley Orr once upon a time due to him refusing to sign a new contract. 

Orr then back-tracked and signed the deal. 

Peterborough take a harsh approach to players who won't sign new contracts. They are instantly placed on the transfer list, regardless of their importance to the squad. 

Well put. This isn't the first time a player (young or not) has been left out of a team because they won't sign a new contract.

It's a catch 22 situation, as a manager you want him to play to develop the player and to help him  move onto the next level. That being said though, when said player is not one of the best players in the squad, how can you warrant starting him every week? You can't just pick him in the hope that he may decide to sign a contract that's been on the table for numerous months. 

I think Pearsons stance is fair. He won't commit to the club, Pearson is trying to build a squad capable of pushing up the table, because let's be fair his job is ultimately on the line, so how can you build something for the future when a squad player is undecided what he wants to do in his own future?

I'm under no illusions that Han will get minutes (NP has said so himself), but as a squad player, he has to settle for a place on the bench. If/when he gets his chance, because he will, he needs to grab it with both hands and make it impossible for Pearson to drop him again. Unfortunately, under 3 different managers, Han is yet to do that.

I like him, he has potential (as pointed out he is a similar age to our other young prospects), and I hope he signs. That being said, he is far from being one of the best members of the squad.

Harsh maybe, but he needs to kick on. For himself if nothing else.

[SBB]

6 hours ago, SBB said:

What makes you think his mind is on next season? He may want to move on when his contact expires but that doesn’t mean he’s not committed  this season. I’m sure if he’s called upon and NP plays him, he’ll give his all…. Unlike the waste of space we had ip front a season or two ago.

Edited 6 hours ago by SBB 
Typo. Trying to text while driving

Possibly the worst autocorrect of all time. 
That will teach me to take my glove off at the driving range. 

[pl00peh91]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In fairness the contract offer has been on the table for 8+ months.  I really, really want Han to sign it, but as manager you can’t formulate plans either with him or without him if you don’t know what he’s gonna do.

All he’s said is he becomes more of a fringe / squad player at this point in time.  Nige won’t bear a grudge, if he signs, I suspect Nige will be delighted.

It isn’t mind games at all, it’s just answering the question honestly.  He did what he said with Bakinson didn’t he?  He doesn’t really make idle threats, he will challenge players though.

There is another school of thought which would say that Pearson has been the direct beneficiary of players running down their contracts at Luton and FGR this summer, and actually our recruitment strategy could not work without that happening, so to be so publicly forceful against players running down their contracts here seems to be him trying to have his cake and eat it

[GrahamC]

32 minutes ago, pl00peh91 said:

There is another school of thought which would say that Pearson has been the direct beneficiary of players running down their contracts at Luton and FGR this summer, and actually our recruitment strategy could not work without that happening, so to be so publicly forceful against players running down their contracts here seems to be him trying to have his cake and eat it

Not really.

Every club works smartly to take advantage of these type of situations.

What he wants to avoid is a repeat of the utter shambles he inherited from Ashton whereby half the squad were out of contract with no possible value to the club as a result.

 

[Shuffle]

A different dynamic to the HNM situation as that is public but I wonder how many of our squad will be involved who are in the last year of their contract & have rejected or will reject new terms?  It’s a big unknown but with so many OOC next summer NP could back himself into a corner with the statement they will be squad players. Bentley, Kalas, Dasilva, Wells, Vyner to my knowledge are OOC but if they reject will NP take same stance. 

[BTRFTG]

Haven't listened to the interview but if the suggestion is Nige views HNM as only a 'squad player' on the basis his contract expires at the end of the season, then that's disgraceful. HNM, like all players, should be given the opportunity to show what they can do. Just because the likes of CoD, KP & TBFK gave up long before exiting doesn't imply HNM would act similarly. If anything, the kid has always put a shift in when given the chance.

It works both ways. If by some fluke City were promoted at the end of the season, would they stand by those players that had delivered success simply because they had time left on their contracts? Like hell would they.

[brady bunch]

Its not HNM's lack of goals and assists that bothers me, it is his bad lapses in a defensive role (failing to track runners, being out of position, losing the ball in dangerous positions) that has cost City dearly in many games (he has at least as bad a record on it as Taylor Moore). Its this, not his lack of goals that worries me and clearly many other potential buyers.. 

"no interest" speaks volumes......

A nice lad, some amazing moves (that his PR can make look great on YouTube), but flattered to deceive and massively over hyped. Looks like a footballer, but needs to deliver and it is almost certainly going to need to be elsewhere. 

Probably going to end up as a loan out, followed by a a big write off in the books at the end of the contract.

[BTRFTG]

23 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

You get what you pay for....

Almost that the player wants his cake and eat it . 

Given City's overpriced carousel of crap these past years that clearly isn't the case. Cost & value share no dependency. Never did, never will.

I also find it amusing when fans project their own flawed logic onto players. Like cost and value football and contracts share no dependency. When a player signs a contract all one hopes is they perform until that contract expires. City have been stuffed to the gunnels with non-performers on long contracts they're unable to shift (no rounds of applause for the AG8 please), so length to contract expiry is a woeful indicator as to performance and commitment. Why should a player feel obligated to perform anything other than that stated within their contract? If you employed a builder to construct an extension on your gaff would you berate them were they not to hang around after delivering as much simply because you might want them also to look at your roof? Seems to me HNM wants to fulfill his contract. What's wrong with that?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, pl00peh91 said:

There is another school of thought which would say that Pearson has been the direct beneficiary of players running down their contracts at Luton and FGR this summer, and actually our recruitment strategy could not work without that happening, so to be so publicly forceful against players running down their contracts here seems to be him trying to have his cake and eat it

That’s the modern world of football, but I think Nige when referring to “policies” to stop this happening is not “cake and eat it”, it’s about running the football club in a good business manner.  Look at Peterborough, they have a policy that if a player gets to their final year they “transfer list” them.  They realise that the final year’s amortisation is dead money and try to recoup a fee.  They don’t always succeed, but that is their policy.  And I think that is what Nige means.  If we can take advantage of other clubs not having such a policy, that’s their fault, not Nige having his cake and eating it.

59 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

A different dynamic to the HNM situation as that is public but I wonder how many of our squad will be involved who are in the last year of their contract & have rejected or will reject new terms?  It’s a big unknown but with so many OOC next summer NP could back himself into a corner with the statement they will be squad players. Bentley, Kalas, Dasilva, Wells, Vyner to my knowledge are OOC but if they reject will NP take same stance. 

The difference here is the length of time the contract has been on the table.  I’m sure if we hear that the likes of Kalas, etc have been offered deals and have stalled over a long period, then I think Nige is principled enough to take a similar stance.  FWIW, he hasn’t said he won’t play him, just that he’d (paraphrased) rather focus on those that are committed to staying.

20 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Haven't listened to the interview but if the suggestion is Nige views HNM as only a 'squad player' on the basis his contract expires at the end of the season, then that's disgraceful. HNM, like all players, should be given the opportunity to show what they can do. Just because the likes of CoD, KP & TBFK gave up long before exiting doesn't imply HNM would act similarly. If anything, the kid has always put a shift in when given the chance.

It works both ways. If by some fluke City were promoted at the end of the season, would they stand by those players that had delivered success simply because they had time left on their contracts? Like hell would they.

Probably worth listening to the interview. 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, brady bunch said:

Probably going to end up as a loan out, followed by a a big write off in the books at the end of the contract.

Being pedantic…If he gets loaned out and is still here next summer….there won’t be any write off (his asset value in the books will be £0).  In fact, we will be due compensation from whoever takes him, and will end up being a “transfer profit”.

[BTRFTG]

6 minutes ago, brady bunch said:

Probably going to end up as a loan out, followed by a a big write off in the books at the end of the contract

'No-interest' does not speak volumes other than your own unsubstantiated assumption. Were I advising HNM and in the present market, I'd likely make it known around footballing circles that unless I really thought his future lay with City, to perform to the best of his abilities when given the opportunity but not sign any contract extension. Use performance to boost any potential signing on fee and contract offer from wherever that may arise. If he performs and City want him (why would they change their minds other than they don't actually want him but are attempting to preserve their own financial intetest,) they'd still offer him a new deal at season end. So little risk player side.

As for write off (sic) there is none. At contract expiry all players 'costs' will have been depreciated to nil, as will have been dictated the day they first signed their contract.

[Shuffle]

@DavefevsThey are all in the last year but the only difference surely is that HNMs offer has been made public.  Do you honestly believe that discussions offers haven’t been made to those we want to keep as I don’t. If for some bizarre reasons we haven’t made offers or in positive discussions why wouldn’t we look to get a return from a fee just like we are with HNM.  If we wait to Jan window then value of potential sale reduces.

Im just playing devils advocate as we have to try and get a fee now for HNM but the only difference is that his offer is public domain.  

Edited July 27, 2022 by Shuffle

[spudski]

When we look at HNM...re his development as a footballer at this Club...what are we developing him as?

I've yet to work it out.

Defensive holding midfielder?

Central midfielder?

Wide midfielder?

Attacking midfielder?

He's been utilised in many roles...often out of necessity. 

But I can't help but feel it's been detrimental to his overall performances.

He has been used as a jack of all trades in midfield. And often his performances reflect that.

Personally I don't think he suits, in this league, a central defensive role...which is what I understood he was first signed for. Someone originally to come on and see out a game.

Imo ..he is a better all round contributor in a more advanced position. When facing forward, not tracking back. 

Obviously likes a dribble and a good pass percentage. Finds his player with a pass.

I personally don't see a defensive midfielder in him.

[BTRFTG]

2 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

 Do you honestly believe that discussions offers haven’t been made to those we want to keep as I don’t. 

Whilst I think you are correct to remind Liam Rosenior and the great Bristolian postage stamp crisis.....

[Port Said Red]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

When we look at HNM...re his development as a footballer at this Club...what are we developing him as?

I've yet to work it out.

Defensive holding midfielder?

Central midfielder?

Wide midfielder?

Attacking midfielder?

He's been utilised in many roles...often out of necessity. 

But I can't help but feel it's been detrimental to his overall performances.

He has been used as a jack of all trades in midfield. And often his performances reflect that.

Personally I don't think he suits, in this league, a central defensive role...which is what I understood he was first signed for. Someone originally to come on and see out a game.

Imo ..he is a better all round contributor in a more advanced position. When facing forward, not tracking back. 

Obviously likes a dribble and a good pass percentage. Finds his player with a pass.

I personally don't see a defensive midfielder in him.

That's not really any different to what would have happened to him at U23 level where giving players an idea of how to play in different positions is seen as part of their development. 

The only difference is that he has been learning in one of the top leagues in Europe.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, Port Said Red said:

That's not really any different to what would have happened to him at U23 level where giving players an idea of how to play in different positions is seen as part of their development. 

The only difference is that he has been learning in one of the top leagues in Europe.

That's my point...you can develop in training and in U23 games...but he's under the microscope playing at Championship level.

 

[Port Said Red]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

That's my point...you can develop in training and in U23 games...but he's under the microscope playing at Championship level.

Yes and something that regularly gets missed by his detractors, he has been inconsistent of course but he has been a teenager for the majority of his time here.

[Rob k]

15 minutes ago, spudski said:

When we look at HNM...re his development as a footballer at this Club...what are we developing him as?

I've yet to work it out.

Defensive holding midfielder?

Central midfielder?

Wide midfielder?

Attacking midfielder?

He's been utilised in many roles...often out of necessity. 

But I can't help but feel it's been detrimental to his overall performances.

He has been used as a jack of all trades in midfield. And often his performances reflect that.

Personally I don't think he suits, in this league, a central defensive role...which is what I understood he was first signed for. Someone originally to come on and see out a game.

Imo ..he is a better all round contributor in a more advanced position. When facing forward, not tracking back. 

Obviously likes a dribble and a good pass percentage. Finds his player with a pass.

I personally don't see a defensive midfielder in him.

This is my exact thoughts - i also don’t think he’s positionally disciplined enough currently as a defensive midfielder either. 
I think we have seen glimpses that show us there is a decent footballer in there but as i said to a mate I’ve not seen it enough that suggests to me he will make it at a higher level than this.

Good luck to him though as seems a good kid 

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Yes and something that regularly gets missed by his detractors, he has been inconsistent of course but he has been a teenager for the majority of his time here.

 

1 minute ago, Rob k said:

This is my exact thoughts - i also don’t think he’s positionally disciplined enough currently as a defensive midfielder either. 
I think we have seen glimpses that show us there is a decent footballer in there but as i said to a mate I’ve not seen it enough that suggests to me he will make it at a higher level than this.

Good luck to him though as seems a good kid 

I agree with you both. Take into the fact he's also learnt his game in France which is totally different to here...had to move with family to a new country...learn a new language...learn a physical fast game in one of the toughest leagues.

For all we know...he and his advisor maybe thinking his game suits a different league after his development here. There maybe so many scenarios.

After all, it's not his fault the change in football transfers, contracts etc.

His next contract will after all take a significant step in which way his career path will take.

Massive decision imo.