Nigel Pearson will be on Sounds of the City Monday 25th July

[Notbarrymanc]

Would HNM leave on a free? Wouldn’t his next club have to pay a court settlement fee to us because of his age?

[spudski]

Just to confirm...HNM's Agent/Advisor is his father. 

He, his wife and 5 sisters moved here to be with Han.

I agree that City are seen as a stepping stone in his development and career.

Whilst they maybe happy with his development and how the club look after him, I feel not enough starts last season maybe why they are stalling.

He came here to play football.

On a side note...Kaliffe Cisse was playing a big role in his development here. 

Is he still with us?

[GrahamC]

Just now, spudski said:

Just to confirm...HNM's Agent/Advisor is his father. 

He, his wife and 5 sisters moved here to be with Han.

I agree that City are seen as a stepping stone in his development and career.

Whilst they maybe happy with his development and how the club look after him, I feel not enough starts last season maybe why they are stalling.

He came here to play football.

On a side note...Kaliffe Cisse was playing a big role in his development here. 

Is he still with us?

Believe HNM’s mum moved back to France last year.

Cisse is still with us, he was in the crowd at the HPC for one of the friendlies.

With Fleming, Euell & Ball all on the coaching staff & the likes of Hines & Bell with the younger age group I have never been clear exactly what it is that he actually does.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Believe HNM’s mum moved back to France last year.

Cisse is still with us, he was in the crowd at the HPC for one of the friendlies.

With Fleming, Euell & Ball all on the coaching staff & the likes of Hines & Bell with the younger age group I have never been clear exactly what it is that he actually does.

Ah...that may put some more meat on the bones. Thanks for clarifying Cisse is still with us.

As for his role, reading between lines about him, it was a general role of coaching, helping out with foreign signings, connections etc etc

[AshtonRobin21]

I can't help but wonder if HNM was sold false promises upon his arrival. 

Being greeted by a brummie in a suit smiling like a Cheshire cat. He was likely told, "we will raise your profile and secure you a good future move". In order to accelerate HNM's development. 

HNM is now approaching the end of his 4 year contract and is expecting the interest to intensify for his signature (so far nothing...). 

However, the sad truth, is that HNM hasn't hit the heights he was expected to. Even 3 years into his time here, I don't think he would be in many people's strongest starting 11. 

He has undoubted potential, but as I have mentioned previously, we haven't seen enough of the 'Preston - Away' or 'Millwall - Home' performances. He was unplayable in both of those games. But those performances have been few and far between. 

The rumours upon him signing, was that he was being lined up for a future move to Chelsea/Arsenal. And whilst those rumours proved to be false, he was then linked to the likes of Leicester, Nice and Watford, which again came to nothing. And more recently being linked to Diddly Squat FC. 

If I were HNM's representative, I would encourage him to look at signing a new 2/3 year deal, he would only be 23/24 at the end of that contract. His development would continue to progress in a team where he could compete for regular game time, and would likely be approaching over 200 competitive games at that age. If he then wanted to move on, he would be in a much stronger position that he is currently. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Taz said:

Just listened online, good honest assessment from Nige as ever, without giving too much away with regards to who he sees as being the bulk of the first 11, and/or players who have impressed, although Kadji was mentioned as one who he likes.

On to Han Noah, great lad but for me hasn't done much to warrant a big improvement with regards to contract terms. In some respect he needs to look at the example that Taylor Moore set a few years ago - accept the offer on the table but maybe try and negotiate a better one based on targets set in the next. He took a wage cut to prove his worth. 

Now granted, it didn't work out for Moore, but you can't fault players like that. He had a belief that he could make it here, and was quite willing to accept lower terms over a short contract to prove that, which he did. Unfortunately for him he's out on loan for the last year of his deal, but I respect him for what he did. 

Han and his representatives, have maybe brought into the hype that surrounded him when he first signed too much. The market has changed, clubs are less willing to take a chance on players if they don't know how and where they would fit into their teams. Unless they know of something behind the scenes, I'd say they are playing a very dangerous game.

The big unknown for me is “what is he currently on”?  I can imagine MA gave him a whopping contract for an 18 year old, and the wage market has changed.  Just imagine he’s on £8-10k p.w.  Any normal 18 year old on a 4 year deal would be expecting a decent increase at 21 (3 years and almost 100 games later).  But the market has changed.  Andi Weimann is on a rumoured £10k p.w, down from £18-20k p.w.  That’s the context.  It’s why you have the likes of Kasey Palmer equivalents at Chelsea, still there at 25/26, because nobody can afford them, and they have got used to that level of wage.

I’ve no idea what Han is on, but he couldn’t have come here in a typical 18 year old wage.  I don’t blame him either for wanting a decent wage either.

I rate him, but you could easily argue what was his expectation of longevity at City….did he expect to see out 3 or 4 years of his contract, or did he expect to have moved on by now.  If so, I’m surprised most of the family uprooted themselves.

I just hope it gets resolved quickly.

1 hour ago, The Bard said:

HE said there's been no interest.  So no one has offered anything and been told to go away.  Nige playing hardball now is exactly the way to go.  His representatives are probably thinking he'll play enough this season and can leave for free.  If he barely gets a kick for the first few weeks then they may become more proactive, either in agreeing to the offer we've made or getting a buying club to make an offer. 

 

 

Nige might not always be totally honest here.  It’s like houses, price them too high, they won’t sell, price them correctly in the market and they will.  I can imagine any enquiries have been dismissed, we may need to revisit!

1 hour ago, mozo said:

A lot of players these days are running down their contracts to increase their options when the term ends, but it sounded to me like he risks getting fewer minutes on the pitch this season by not committing, albeit we will absolutely use him.

People say shirt numbers aren't important but just look at Scott getting 7, Conway something like 15, but Massengo getting bumped to a higher number.

…and a lot of players are finding that being a free agent this summer isn’t as lucrative as 3 years ago.  Clubs can’t afford fees, they can’t afford signing on fees either!

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Absolutely agree Rob.  The notion of group culture, and associated leadership, is so overlooked in football analysis.  Every great football team has leaders on the pitch, and players who buy into a group ethic, and sadly Lee appears never to have quite got that.  I was mystified by Aaron Wilbraham’s signing when it was announced, given his then recent goal scoring record, but his role in our last promotion team cannot be overstated.

Alby - leader, a driver of standards, seen success at higher levels than Lg1 - as we were at the time.  A master stroke of a signing.

I do think LJ tried that with Gary O’Neil, but unfortunately he suffered with injuries.  As each SOD and Cotts signing then left, it was a bit like Marty McFly’s photo in Back to the Future gradually fading away.

54 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

I don’t think it’s a irrelevant. HNM has played in several positions in midfield. And his goals and assists is a poor return. I expect more from him. Just my opinion 

I still don’t get this argument.  We never put that point of criticism up against Korey Smith.  Swansea never worried about £8m Flynn Downes’s lack of goals and assists.  I’m not saying it’s dismissible, but it does detract from our evaluation of other aspects of his game imho.

[Bristol Oil Services]

36 minutes ago, spudski said:

Just to confirm...HNM's Agent/Advisor is his father. 

He, his wife and 5 sisters moved here to be with Han.

If Jane Austen was alive today, she'd be writing about this type of domestic carry on (from the - eldest - sisters' perspective, not Han's lack of "goals and assists"), with Mark Ashton as a dashing if misunderstood Mr Darcy perhaps  .... 

[mozo]

38 minutes ago, spudski said:

Just to confirm...HNM's Agent/Advisor is his father. 

He, his wife and 5 sisters moved here to be with Han.

I agree that City are seen as a stepping stone in his development and career.

Whilst they maybe happy with his development and how the club look after him, I feel not enough starts last season maybe why they are stalling.

He came here to play football.

On a side note...Kaliffe Cisse was playing a big role in his development here. 

Is he still with us?

By all accounts we've treated him well but many other clubs could do the same. 

It's a shame we can't get him on a contract with a relatively low release clause just to ensure we get a fee for him.

[brad blit]

I dont want to get pulled into the HNM argument regarding stats, but its clear to see there's a talented footballer there - personally im still not sure what his favoured position/role is.

The point i wanted to make on this thread, was why is there such fuss made over a player who's not really a guaranteed starter, whereas nothing is being asked about Bentley, Kalas and JD who (in my opinion) are more important to the squad, and their contracts are also up next summer too.

@Davefevs I did try finding your document about player contracts, but could you confirm if this is the case and Bentley/Kalas/JD are also OOC next summer.

[brad blit]

25 minutes ago, mozo said:

By all accounts we've treated him well but many other clubs could do the same. 

It's a shame we can't get him on a contract with a relatively low release clause just to ensure we get a fee for him.

Why would HNM sign a contract just so the club who currently employ him get a fee, and thus stop his own chances of a decent sign on fee at another club if he decides to leave - would you do the same for your employer??

[grifty]

I’d imagine if Han were to sign a new contract, he’d be back in Nigel’s plans who would be more inclined to involve him as he would be guaranteed ‘our player’.

It would be interesting to see how Han performs in a team that had our form and performances as we did for the last 10 or so games of the season, rather than a team that only had 2 shots a game and could hardly string 5 passes together which is what the majority of games he played for us has been like.

I see his strengths as his first touch, beating a man and driving forward, which would be perfect for our counter attacking style as he often commits an opposition player, beats them and then creates overloads.

The next part of finding a through ball, assist or shot/goal is where he is currently no good (out of practice?).

I’d see Han as a good back-up/cover for Williams in the 40% of games he will likely miss due to fitness issues. Appreciate Han probably doesn’t want to be back up though…

[Davefevs]

35 minutes ago, brad blit said:

I dont want to get pulled into the HNM argument regarding stats, but its clear to see there's a talented footballer there - personally im still not sure what his favoured position/role is.

The point i wanted to make on this thread, was why is there such fuss made over a player who's not really a guaranteed starter, whereas nothing is being asked about Bentley, Kalas and JD who (in my opinion) are more important to the squad, and their contracts are also up next summer too.

@Davefevs I did try finding your document about player contracts, but could you confirm if this is the case and Bentley/Kalas/JD are also OOC next summer.

might need to zoom in!

15 minutes ago, grifty said:

I’d imagine if Han were to sign a new contract, he’d be back in Nigel’s plans who would be more inclined to involve him as he would be guaranteed ‘our player’.

It would be interesting to see how Han performs in a team that had our form and performances as we did for the last 10 or so games of the season, rather than a team that only had 2 shots a game and could hardly string 5 passes together which is what the majority of games he played for us has been like.

I see his strengths as his first touch, beating a man and driving forward, which would be perfect for our counter attacking style as he often commits an opposition player, beats them and then creates overloads.

The next part of finding a through ball, assist or shot/goal is where he is currently no good (out of practice?).

I’d see Han as a good back-up/cover for Williams in the 40% of games he will likely miss due to fitness issues. Appreciate Han probably doesn’t want to be back up though…

That’s my view too, Nige big on commitment…if Han showed commitment by signing a contract, he’s right back in the selection mix.

[ExiledAjax]

3 hours ago, mozo said:

A lot of players these days are running down their contracts to increase their options when the term ends

Good. It's a good thing that contracts, especially contracts where players were overvalued and over paid, are being completed. 

The compensation fees paid between clubs to cover remaining contract years have been one of the driving factors in football's ballooning finances. They have in turn caused clubs to turn to all kinds of "creative financing"* or to sometimes unreliable wealthy benefactors (or both). If one legacy of COVID's impact on the market is that those compensated transfers become rarer, and instead we see players actually complete contracts, and then move as free agents, then that should improve the financial stability of clubs like ours. Wages and signing on fees could still creep up, but it would be no bad thing to see reductions in payouts and smaller transfer fees.

I've no problem whatsoever with players like Diedhiou or Massengo seeing out their contracts and then moving on.

*See Derby County, Sheff Wednesday, Barcelona, etc.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Ah...that may put some more meat on the bones. Thanks for clarifying Cisse is still with us.

As for his role, reading between lines about him, it was a general role of coaching, helping out with foreign signings, connections etc etc

Cisse also scouts opposition and potential signings.

To add to the family thing, Hans brother studied at UWE.

[FabledRobin]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Just to confirm...HNM's Agent/Advisor is his father. 

He, his wife and 5 sisters moved here to be with Han.

I agree that City are seen as a stepping stone in his development and career.

Whilst they maybe happy with his development and how the club look after him, I feel not enough starts last season maybe why they are stalling.

He came here to play football.

On a side note...Kaliffe Cisse was playing a big role in his development here. 

Is he still with us?

He also has two brothers. One was a guest of S82 before the pandemic 

[mozo]

2 hours ago, brad blit said:

Why would HNM sign a contract just so the club who currently employ him get a fee, and thus stop his own chances of a decent sign on fee at another club if he decides to leave - would you do the same for your employer??

Well typically there would be an immediate wage increase, but as per discussion above the terms on the table could be less or the same as current. Maybe we offered him a lucrative goal bonus  

[And Its Smith]

If James or Williams bust their knee early doors then HNM will be needed in a big way. Don’t feel he gets the respect as a player he deserves on here. 

[GrahamC]

12 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

If James or Williams bust their knee early doors then HNM will be needed in a big way. Don’t feel he gets the respect as a player he deserves on here. 

I’m still not sure he’d get that chance if he doesn’t commit.

Scott is a bit of a dream really, despite being only 18 he can play anywhere & I could see him getting the gig alongside whichever of James or Williams was fit, with Sykes used further forward & King being what he already is, the experienced back up, on the bench if needed, in the stands if not.

I’m not even convinced HNM will be on the bench on Saturday after listening to Nige.

[Sir Geoff]

16 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

If James or Williams bust their knee early doors then HNM will be needed in a big way. Don’t feel he gets the respect as a player he deserves on here. 

Doubt it. Scott would drop in and Weimann would play just behind the strikers giving Wells more playing time. Or King would slot in. Massengo would still only be on the bench. Sign a contract and he will move up the pecking order.

[Red Army 75]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The big unknown for me is “what is he currently on”?  I can imagine MA gave him a whopping contract for an 18 year old, and the wage market has changed.  Just imagine he’s on £8-10k p.w.  Any normal 18 year old on a 4 year deal would be expecting a decent increase at 21 (3 years and almost 100 games later).  But the market has changed.  Andi Weimann is on a rumoured £10k p.w, down from £18-20k p.w.  That’s the context.  It’s why you have the likes of Kasey Palmer equivalents at Chelsea, still there at 25/26, because nobody can afford them, and they have got used to that level of wage.

I’ve no idea what Han is on, but he couldn’t have come here in a typical 18 year old wage.  I don’t blame him either for wanting a decent wage either.

I rate him, but you could easily argue what was his expectation of longevity at City….did he expect to see out 3 or 4 years of his contract, or did he expect to have moved on by now.  If so, I’m surprised most of the family uprooted themselves.

I just hope it gets resolved quickly.

Nige might not always be totally honest here.  It’s like houses, price them too high, they won’t sell, price them correctly in the market and they will.  I can imagine any enquiries have been dismissed, we may need to revisit!

…and a lot of players are finding that being a free agent this summer isn’t as lucrative as 3 years ago.  Clubs can’t afford fees, they can’t afford signing on fees either!

Alby - leader, a driver of standards, seen success at higher levels than Lg1 - as we were at the time.  A master stroke of a signing.

I do think LJ tried that with Gary O’Neil, but unfortunately he suffered with injuries.  As each SOD and Cotts signing then left, it was a bit like Marty McFly’s photo in Back to the Future gradually fading away.

I still don’t get this argument.  We never put that point of criticism up against Korey Smith.  Swansea never worried about £8m Flynn Downes’s lack of goals and assists.  I’m not saying it’s dismissible, but it does detract from our evaluation of other aspects of his game imho.

Whilst opinions differ on the player. I expect the majority would agree if he were to leave for free it would be another kick in the nuts for the club. 

[REDOXO]

21 hours ago, The Coach said:

Recap I've taken from NP tonight:

 

Nigel wants to be competitive. May just be me. But wants this squad of players to aim high this coming season

Squad looking fitter than last season

Naismith secured a better contract offer here than at Luton. Naismith excited at the project at Bristol City. 

Confident Sykes & Wilson have the technicality, motivation and desire to be successful. Something that is often not talked about in players.

3 players that were brought in on a free helped us massively due to our financial predicament.

Wants to achieve his 3 year objective as originally set out. However, now believes it may take a bit longer due to our situation and the current market. 

Still has ambition to sign more players. Less likely to do more business due to current financial challenges. But states things could change. Highlighted there has been interest from some clubs with a couple of our players but doesn't want to lose any of these players.

Will not disclose who's impressed him this pre-season. 

Spoke with Tins, wants to put some young players out on loan. Due to the numbers, cannot afford to do so. Young players pathways could be disrupted as numbers are short in the squad. 

Joe Williams - always going to be a concern with his injury record. Joe may not play 2 games in a short space of time (i.e, Saturday, Tues, Saturday).

Semenyo - Hoping to be back in September from injury.

Kalas - Not making much progress on his injury. Something that has cropped up before

Massengo - No update on Massengo contract. Offer on the table for over a season more or less to sign. Squad player who may get game time (sounds like he won't be a first starter going forward). No interest in him from other clubs. Sounds like he will run contract down. 

Vyner - Appears to me the club cannot offload him. Sounds like he's just making up the squad numbers. NP highlights he's had a good pre-season however. 

In terms of the operation of the football club. Wants those high up to take on the challenge of moving up the ladder and having the ambition to progress. Understands the challenges and issues but everyone involved with the club needs to find a way to progress. 

Loan Players - Not keen. You sign PL loan players, their wages are high and it bites into the wage budget. Not a cheap option. Again, not ruling out but would have to be the right loan signing. Also highlights other Championship clubs are chasing the same young players to loan.

Starting XI for Saturday not yet finalised. Knows the bulk of his first XI but players still have 4 days to change his mind. 

 

 

 

 

 

Good summary. Loved the little dig at LJ for his pathway comment. It obviously pissed off Pearson as much as Tinman! 

[And Its Smith]

30 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I’m still not sure he’d get that chance if he doesn’t commit.

Scott is a bit of a dream really, despite being only 18 he can play anywhere & I could see him getting the gig alongside whichever of James or Williams was fit, with Sykes used further forward & King being what he already is, the experienced back up, on the bench if needed, in the stands if not.

I’m not even convinced HNM will be on the bench on Saturday after listening to Nige.

 

28 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Doubt it. Scott would drop in and Weimann would play just behind the strikers giving Wells more playing time. Or King would slot in. Massengo would still only be on the bench. Sign a contract and he will move up the pecking order.

Time will tell I guess. I still think he will get a fair amount of minutes if he stays. King won’t play much at all. There will be injuries as all clubs have. I think Massengo will start more games than King this season for sure and play over 1500 minutes this season. 

[Atticus]

If he doesn't want to signal new contract then bye bye. If he shows no commitment then I hope he isn't played.

 

Frustrating as hell we csnt sign anymore players though

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Atticus

[Atticus]

People pulling up stats etc about him, or making excuses for him. Who cares?

If we won't sign a new contract, then not to be too crude but **** him, and focus on players that wanna be here.

 

I'm more worried about chances of signing new players.

[And Its Smith]

7 minutes ago, Atticus said:

People pulling up stats etc about him, or making excuses for him. Who cares?

If we won't sign a new contract, then not to be too crude but **** him, and focus on players that wanna be here.

 

I'm more worried about chances of signing new players.

Good for you.  The ‘who cares?’ comments on forums always baffle me. People are talking and debating one of our players.  If you don’t like that then look away. 

[bexhill reds]

what's not been mentioned thus far in this thread is that the new French keeper indicated in an interview that he spoke to Massengo before joining as they knew each other from the French national youth set up, so clearly HNM has provided a sufficiently good insider's reference to help make up his mind to sign.

Perhaps that signing might be an unintended catalyst for HNM to hang around with a new contract...

[Atticus]

9 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Good for you.  The ‘who cares?’ comments on forums always baffle me. People are talking and debating one of our players.  If you don’t like that then look away. 

A player that won't sign a new contract. A player that will not commit to us next season. A ayer that has his eyes on whoever after this season.

That is not a player that has focus. Hence Pearsons comments. 

[And Its Smith]

5 minutes ago, Atticus said:

A player that won't sign a new contract. A player that will not commit to us next season. A ayer that has his eyes on whoever after this season.

That is not a player that has focus. Hence Pearsons comments. 

Is he not committed to the club? He signed a contract and is still under that contract. Always seems to put in maximum effort.  Yes it’s frustrating that he won’t sign a new contract but that’s his right. As long as he is putting in the effort on the pitch and in training then he has my respect.  

[Gazred]

Would rather have HNM in and around the team but for the longer term vision, I'm hope Nige will be sticking to his principles. It's a shame this applies to Han but that in itself shows the standards he's trying to introduce. Nobody is exempt from it.

You're either onboard on your not. Want to run down your contract? Dont expect to be considered anything more than a squad player whilst you are still here.

Nobody can say for sure but I'd suggest he either already knows he's off next summer or hoping the club offer terms more to his liking be that wage or length. Either way it leaves him in Pearson purgatory in the meantime.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Gazred said:

You're either onboard on your not. Want to run down your contract? Dont expect to be considered anything more than a squad player whilst you are still here.

 

Nutshell