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Match Report: Freak Hull goals ruin in-control City's season opener


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5 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Yes it was never a penalty. I just think when a fan can make peace with the fact we will get decisions for you that are incorrect and against you that are incorrect then it’s probably a better mindset than anger. The ‘all refs hate Bristol City’ brigade are paranoid. 

I don’t think all refs hate Bristol City but last season proved they don’t always even out. Maybe as the season progresses and if we are higher up the table we’ll get more luck. At the minute however there seems to be a subconscious in referee’s minds about us. Maybe I am wrong but 47 games since we have been back from covid and I’d say we have had less of the luck in the majority of those. No we don’t always play a style that will gain us a lot of luck but neither are we so poor that can explain things like 1 penalty in the last 50 or so matches or whatever the stat is. 

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1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

Yes it was never a penalty. I just think when a fan can make peace with the fact we will get decisions for you that are incorrect and against you that are incorrect then it’s probably a better mindset than anger. The ‘all refs hate Bristol City’ brigade are paranoid. 

It’s not a case of the all refs hate Bristol City brigade, it was a case of a referee who was not following the officiating standards that have been laid out. Taking penalties either way out of the equation the referee allowed constant bad tackles from the very beginning and was completely disinclined to caution anyone, which set the standard. This is what Mr Pearson was talking about at the end of the game. If The EFL and League representatives go to clubs before/at the beginning of the season telling clubs what will be acceptable and what will not they then have to apply those standards. The referee yesterday allowed Sykes to be kicked to bits, he allowed Atkinson to get mauled on various occasions twice in the penalty area and once for a stone cold penalty and much much more!
 

Yes mistakes are made, but the Hull penalty will go on a blooper real it was that bad. But the crux of it regardless of penalty’s one way or another is he did not apply the rules as laid out to the clubs! Again which is what Pearson was talking about post match!

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10 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Yes it was never a penalty. I just think when a fan can make peace with the fact we will get decisions for you that are incorrect and against you that are incorrect then it’s probably a better mindset than anger. The ‘all refs hate Bristol City’ brigade are paranoid. 

Whilst I’d generally agree with you on the ‘win some lose some’ principle, that doesn’t seem to hold good when it comes to City and penalties. 

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3 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Whilst I’d generally agree with you on the ‘win some lose some’ principle, that doesn’t seem to hold good when it comes to City and penalties. 

I think a bit of that is fans remembering those they didn’t get for a lot longer than the ones they got away with 

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6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I think a bit of that is fans remembering those they didn’t get for a lot longer than the ones they got away with 

So are you saying that getting away with penalties in someway is factored into the award of them? I suppose you are not, but that is how it reads. How many penalties did we get last season, one was it not, I don’t remember?   

I Hope you’re inference is correct as we are due a whole bunch of the buggers! 

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2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

So are you saying that getting away with penalties in someway is factored into the award of them? I suppose you are not, but that is how it reads. How many penalties did we get last season, one was it not, I don’t remember?   

I Hope you’re inference is correct as we are due a whole bunch of the buggers! 

No I’m not saying that. I’m saying if, for example, over a season we don’t get 5 penalties that should have been but we also don’t concede 5 penalties that we should have done then most fans will remember the former as unlucky but discount the latter 

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30 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I think a bit of that is fans remembering those they didn’t get for a lot longer than the ones they got away with 

Not so much about remembering specific penalties - more a case of whether they are nailed on, iffy, unlucky, lucky, a dive, a slight touch, a heavy touch, whatever....on the basis of the past couple of years, some get given against us, none get given to us. It doesn't even itself out!

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53 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

EFL Guidance this season 

Threshold on the pitch:

Contact is an acceptable part of football, and contact alone does not mean there is a foul. The  preference is not to penalise minimal contact. Match officials will consider the consequence of contact, action of defender and the motivation of the attacking player when deciding whether a challenge should be penalised.

Naismith committed a foul for me. Slid in late, and made contact. 

Regards the "motivation of the attacking player", unfortunately it's difficult to say. Yes, he may have dived, or he may have genuinely had a delayed shot of pain up his ankle caused by Naismith's studs. 

The moment Naismith was late and made contact with the player, there was a big risk of giving away the penalty. 

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2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Naismith committed a foul for me. Slid in late, and made contact. 

Regards the "motivation of the attacking player", unfortunately it's difficult to say. Yes, he may have dived, or he may have genuinely had a delayed shot of pain up his ankle caused by Naismith's studs. 

The moment Naismith was late and made contact with the player, there was a big risk of giving away the penalty. 

It’s the inconsistency of the refereeing for me, how he gives that and not some of the others.

Now i don’t think it’s a pen in a million years but do agree you risk an awful lot by diving in, in the box and not getting the ball, but how many of these decisions keep going against us? 

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2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yes, he may have dived, or he may have genuinely had a delayed shot of pain up his ankle caused by Naismith's studs. 

Wow, I've never heard that excuse for a blatant dive a few steps after a so called foul.

Any player who goes down about 5 steps after a so called foul (where momentum hasn't played its part), should never, ever be given a penalty. If that is what is now classed as 'winning' a penalty then we may as well call it a day. The bloke should be getting banned for simulation. That was about 10 times worse on a scale (no pun intended) than Tomlins second yellow yesterday (where he was obviously cynically fouled but made a ridiculous meal of it).

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4 hours ago, TheReds said:

Wow, I've never heard that excuse for a blatant dive a few steps after a so called foul.

Any player who goes down about 5 steps after a so called foul (where momentum hasn't played its part), should never, ever be given a penalty. If that is what is now classed as 'winning' a penalty then we may as well call it a day. The bloke should be getting banned for simulation. That was about 10 times worse on a scale (no pun intended) than Tomlins second yellow yesterday (where he was obviously cynically fouled but made a ridiculous meal of it).

Five steps?! Behave.

Naismith has slid in, and played the man not the ball, when the attacker is in a dangerous attacking position. His studs were up, and part of them above the attackers boot. It is entirely possibly it hurt the player, and if so, that can be interpreted as a foul. Look, he may well of taken a tumble, I just don't think it's anywhere near as clear cut as some of our fans are making out. Had there been no contact, I'd agree, no pen. 

But in this day and age, you make a clumsy tackle like that, you're asking for trouble. Proving he cheated when contact is made, with studs up, would be very difficult. Delayed reaction, or not. 

Edited by Kid in the Riot
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50 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Five steps?! Behave.

Naismith has slid in, and played the man not the ball, when the attacker is in a dangerous attacking position. His studs were up, and part of them above the attackers boot. It is entirely possibly it hurt the player, and if so, that can be interpreted as a foul. Look, he may well of taken a tumble, I just don't think it's anywhere near as clear cut as some of our fans are making out. Had there been no contact, I'd agree, no pen. 

But in this day and age, you make a clumsy tackle like that, you're asking for trouble. Proving he cheated when contact is made, with studs up, would be very difficult. Delayed reaction, or not. 

Yes, five.

You can check on the video posted above by pausing it at the challenge. Naismiths boot is there and he jumps, lands, and makes two quick small steps when he lands (not falls), and then takes another 3 before he throws himself down - you can see those 3 quick steps from the camera behind the goal. 

As for the pen, if he went down when touched I don't have a problem, but he thought he could stay up imo and score, and then seen Atkinson running and sliding in and knew he wouldn't, so took a dive.

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21 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

No mate. I’m just not an angry tribal fan who can’t see the full picture. I can also judge referring decisions impartially despite only supporting one of the teams playing. VAR would have proven no contact but it would have also given a penalty in the first half to Hull. VAR has ruined premier league football.  Thankfully it hasn’t yet had a chance to ruin EFL football 

You are 100% correct that Hull should have had a pen in the first half, but it just confirms the Ref and his so called assistants were pretty useless bystanders in the game. Looking at the game as a whole it should have probably been a draw, but the worst mistakes by the ref, cost us more then Hull.

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Four things that spring to mind .................. 1) Can someone within the coaching staff please teach Dasilva how to cross a football?  What is the point of expending all that energy to get forward, only to send your cross into the crowd?  2)  King should have been on the bench, not commentating on the match?     He would have been an ideal player to bring on in the last 10 minutes, to organise and bolster the flagging midfield, and make sure we left with at least a point?  3)  Even Seri, the fortunate recipient of the massively deflected winning goal,  admitted afterwards, that he could not believe that a penalty was awarded. 4)  Please Be aware, all future opponents of Hull City in Championship games, that Turkish footballers are excellent/sneaky exponents of the dark arts, so watch out for diving, feigning injuries, cheating and general shithousery from Hull?  Because in the Turkish league, it is the normal way to behave?.............Even Famara is probably well practiced in it  by   now?

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22 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Naismith committed a foul for me. Slid in late, and made contact. 

Regards the "motivation of the attacking player", unfortunately it's difficult to say. Yes, he may have dived, or he may have genuinely had a delayed shot of pain up his ankle caused by Naismith's studs. 

The moment Naismith was late and made contact with the player, there was a big risk of giving away the penalty. 

"A delayed shot of pain up his ankle caused by Naithsmith's studs".....................That's hilarious. 😱 IT WAS NOT A PENALTY!

Edited by maxjak
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1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

YES IT WAS 

They even scored it. 

Don't be a pedant........you know exactly what i am alluding to.......😱  Have you seen the footage taken from behind the goalmouth, i wonder?

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

For those who are interested- while we certainly could've won, experimental 361 has it down as a draw pretty much albeit with Hull shading it. Depends how you round it too.

2022-07-30-hull-bristol-city.png?w=860&h

0.76 xG for a penalty.

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 Below is the EFL acknowledgement of my concerns about the match official!

In my initial comment I referred to the persistent non punishment of fouls particularly on certain individuals plus the Penalty given and the foul on Atkinson not given….EFL responded as follows
 

Thank you for your email, we note your comments.

 

The EFL receives numerous queries and complaints regarding individual officials’ decisions and their overall performances. While we are not always able to comment on specific incidents, we can advise that the performances of all officials are constantly monitored by way of club and match observer reports, match videos and footage received by the referees’ coaches. Matches are analysed by the Referees' Manager, a referees’ coach and the referee, and these assessments can have an impact on future appointments.

 

We do appreciate some decisions can be frustrating for supporters, however it is important to note that the match officials having a challenging role in trying to spot every single incident that occurs on the field of play, whether this be due to the proximity of the ball to players, the position of the referee, or other players obscuring views of the officials. The human element of the sport means referees do also make mistakes during games, just like players and managers do on a weekly basis. With only one chance to view every incident, and no benefit of replays, the modern referee has a sometimes-difficult task.

 

In all situations the decision of the referee is final although post-match Clubs do have the opportunity to mark the referee’s performance and raise any issues with the Referees’ Manager.

 

Thank you for contacting the EFL.

 

Kindest regards,

 

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18 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks- wasn't fully aware of the value...given they came on a bit stronger 2nd half I am leaning towards draw still although as a pair of goals to concede- pretty long odds!

Post Shot xG is the next data attribute that will become popular, it starts to measure where the ball went from the shot, e.g. better PSxG if shot is into the corner than a dribbling effort straight at the keeper. Might be taking xG a bit too far though,

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9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Post Shot xG is the next data attribute that will become popular, it starts to measure where the ball went from the shot, e.g. better PSxG if shot is into the corner than a dribbling effort straight at the keeper. Might be taking xG a bit too far though,

Thanks- always interested in the next trends etc. Will look into that one, sounds next gen stuff a bit.

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On 01/08/2022 at 17:21, REDOXO said:

 Below is the EFL acknowledgement of my concerns about the match official!

In my initial comment I referred to the persistent non punishment of fouls particularly on certain individuals plus the Penalty given and the foul on Atkinson not given….EFL responded as follows
 

Thank you for your email, we note your comments.

 

The EFL receives numerous queries and complaints regarding individual officials’ decisions and their overall performances. While we are not always able to comment on specific incidents, we can advise that the performances of all officials are constantly monitored by way of club and match observer reports, match videos and footage received by the referees’ coaches. Matches are analysed by the Referees' Manager, a referees’ coach and the referee, and these assessments can have an impact on future appointments.

 

We do appreciate some decisions can be frustrating for supporters, however it is important to note that the match officials having a challenging role in trying to spot every single incident that occurs on the field of play, whether this be due to the proximity of the ball to players, the position of the referee, or other players obscuring views of the officials. The human element of the sport means referees do also make mistakes during games, just like players and managers do on a weekly basis. With only one chance to view every incident, and no benefit of replays, the modern referee has a sometimes-difficult task.

 

In all situations the decision of the referee is final although post-match Clubs do have the opportunity to mark the referee’s performance and raise any issues with the Referees’ Manager.

 

Thank you for contacting the EFL.

 

Kindest regards,

 

Boiler plate response, unsurprisingly.

We know referees are assessed, the problem is that there appear to be no consequences for dreadful performances.

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18 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Boiler plate response, unsurprisingly.

We know referees are assessed, the problem is that there appear to be no consequences for dreadful performances.

I totally agree the EFL need to be more transparent about So called referee assessment process ! 
We are all aware that the FA are very happy to identify any fine or pitch side ban handed out to managers who question the officials performance. 

The EFL referees association need to identify if and when any punishment is handed out to officials after all it is public knowledge when a manager is called out by FA. 
A statement along the lines of concerns have been raised regarding the performance of officials at this fixture and full investigation will be undertaken with all parties involved. 
 

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