FBC POD: review of Hull [A] - "Deja vu.... awful refereeing, late goal conceded

[headhunter]

https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/deja-vu-awful-refereeing-late-goal-conceded/  [Also on Google, Apple & Spotify]

Ian, Mark and DaveP discuss the 2-1 defeat at Hull where City's performance was worthy of a point [at least?].

When City took the lead with a fine Weimann goal on the half hour it was no more than they deserved against a Hull side with so many new additions they probably don't know each other's names yet!

Vyner had a decent game on his return to the first team although was lucky not to have a penalty awarded against him for an early challenge. People say things even themselves out over a season and maybe ref Dean Whitehouse aimed to prove that point when he awarded the home side a penalty after a dive by Tetteh that would not have looked out of place at the Commonwealth Games in the Triple Jump. That made it 1-1 through Tufan's well struck kick and although Weimann almost scored his second to put City back in front there was a growing sense of inevitability that Hull would get the winner as a the game moved into injury time. That Seri's 93 minute winning strike took a wicked deflection off Klose should not detract from the fact that he was totally unmarked 20 yards out when he took aim.

Sykes was as good as Scott was poor and Nigel must be wondering whether James & Williams have enough energy and creativity to be the go to midfield pairing.

With 5 subs allowed perhaps Nigel could have brought on HNM and maybe even Wells to run down the clock with Martin the obvious player to come off?

[Rocking Red Cyril]

Cheers

[Sir Geoff]

10 hours ago, headhunter said:

https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/deja-vu-awful-refereeing-late-goal-conceded/  [Also on Google, Apple & Spotify]

Ian, Mark and DaveP discuss the 2-1 defeat at Hull where City's performance was worthy of a point [at least?].

When City took the lead with a fine Weimann goal on the half hour it was no more than they deserved against a Hull side with so many new additions they probably don't know each other's names yet!

Vyner had a decent game on his return to the first team although was lucky not to have a penalty awarded against him for an early challenge. People say things even themselves out over a season and maybe ref Dean Whitehouse aimed to prove that point when he awarded the home side a penalty after a dive by Tetteh that would not have looked out of place at the Commonwealth Games in the Triple Jump. That made it 1-1 through Tufan's well struck kick and although Weimann almost scored his second to put City back in front there was a growing sense of inevitability that Hull would get the winner as a the game moved into injury time. That Seri's 93 minute winning strike took a wicked deflection off Klose should not detract from the fact that he was totally unmarked 20 yards out when he took aim.

Sykes was as good as Scott was poor and Nigel must be wondering whether James & Williams have enough energy and creativity to be the go to midfield pairing.

With 5 subs allowed perhaps Nigel could have brought on HNM and maybe even Wells to run down the clock with Martin the obvious player to come off?

And there we have it. First pod of the season and Martin already being targeted. I'm curious as to why you think he was the obvious one to make way. I didn't watch the game so have to rely on other peoples opinions, but I have not seen one bad comment re Martin in the match day thread or Ole's excellent match report, where it is stated that Martin 'led the line well'

Was he noticeably tiring, not linking up, holding the ball up. Was he playing any worse than anyone else.

You put a laughing emoji on my comment last week, after you had another 'pop' at Martin. Is Martin now your pods go to scapegoat / has Ian got over Smith going elsewhere ?

[GrahamC]

10 hours ago, headhunter said:

https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/deja-vu-awful-refereeing-late-goal-conceded/  [Also on Google, Apple & Spotify]

Ian, Mark and DaveP discuss the 2-1 defeat at Hull where City's performance was worthy of a point [at least?].

People say things even themselves out over a season and maybe ref Dean Whitehouse aimed to prove that point when he awarded the home side a penalty after a dive by Tetteh that would not have looked out of place at the Commonwealth Games in the Triple Jump. 

They don’t though, do they?

That’s a complete myth.

We had one penalty last season, 9 were given against us & we’re off & running already this season with a terrible one given against us.

I’m told by someone who was there that we were (again) denied a clear penalty for a foul on Atkinson, so what “evened that out”?

1 minute ago, Sir Geoff said:

And there we have it. First pod of the season and Martin already being targeted. I'm curious as to why you think he was the obvious one to make way. I didn't watch the game so have to rely on other peoples opinions, but I have not seen one bad comment re Martin in the match day thread or Ole's excellent match report, where it is stated that Martin 'led the line well'

Was he noticeably tiring, not linking up, holding the ball up. Was he playing any worse than anyone else.

You put a laughing emoji on my comment last week, after you had another 'pop' at Martin. Is Martin now your pods go to scapegoat / has Ian got over Smith going elsewhere ?

He can’t pick on Weimann any more after Andi completely embarrassed him with his 22 goals.

[Engvall’s Splinter]

Cracks me up those calling for Massengo to replace James / Williams as if the result stays the same they’d be stating we should’ve kept old heads on to see the game out. Same with Martin. They’d be suggesting we should’ve kept Martin on as he’s better at holding the ball. 
 

Same agenda fitting analysis that we see on MOTD every Saturday. 
 

In the main it was an encouraging performance I thought. Enjoyed the first period. Very rare we’ll dominate a full 90 minutes - I can’t say we have done that consistently for sometime so unsure why there are expectations for us to do so. 
 

I thought James and Williams worked okay. Williams does have a ball in him so this lack of creativity is garbage. Naismith, Williams, Scott, Sykes all appear to have a bit of vision - we saw that yesterday. 
 

Bring back Neil for some considered positivity and Dave Fevs for some proper factual analysis. 

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Cracks me up those calling for Massengo to replace James / Williams as if the result stays the same they’d be stating we should’ve kept old heads on to see the game out. Same with Martin. They’d be suggesting we should’ve kept Martin on as he’s better at holding the ball. 
 

Same agenda fitting analysis that we see on MOTD every Saturday. 
 

In the main it was an encouraging performance I thought. Enjoyed the first period. Very rare we’ll dominate a full 90 minutes - I can’t say we have done that consistently for sometime so unsure why there are expectations for us to do so. 
 

I thought James and Williams worked okay. Williams does have a ball in him so this lack of creativity is garbage. Naismith, Williams, Scott, Sykes all appear to have a bit of vision - we saw that yesterday. 
 

Bring back Neil for some considered positivity and Dave Fevs for some proper factual analysis. 

This.

[luke_bristol]

Is that Ian as in Ian Gay?

[Cityboy1954]

15 hours ago, headhunter said:

https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/deja-vu-awful-refereeing-late-goal-conceded/  [Also on Google, Apple & Spotify]

Ian, Mark and DaveP discuss the 2-1 defeat at Hull where City's performance was worthy of a point [at least?].

When City took the lead with a fine Weimann goal on the half hour it was no more than they deserved against a Hull side with so many new additions they probably don't know each other's names yet!

Vyner had a decent game on his return to the first team although was lucky not to have a penalty awarded against him for an early challenge. People say things even themselves out over a season and maybe ref Dean Whitehouse aimed to prove that point when he awarded the home side a penalty after a dive by Tetteh that would not have looked out of place at the Commonwealth Games in the Triple Jump. That made it 1-1 through Tufan's well struck kick and although Weimann almost scored his second to put City back in front there was a growing sense of inevitability that Hull would get the winner as a the game moved into injury time. That Seri's 93 minute winning strike took a wicked deflection off Klose should not detract from the fact that he was totally unmarked 20 yards out when he took aim.

Sykes was as good as Scott was poor and Nigel must be wondering whether James & Williams have enough energy and creativity to be the go to midfield pairing.

With 5 subs allowed perhaps Nigel could have brought on HNM and maybe even Wells to run down the clock with Martin the obvious player to come off?

Listened to the podcast cant argue with the fact we are too weak in the midfield james and williams lacking pace and very worried no striker being looked at even on loan hes made his mind up about wells and Conway nowhere near ready .

[Davefevs]

I do love it how we always look for blame an individual or a department or both. Never any credit to the opposition, nor any collective “blame”. Nor is there reflection on the overall game, usually just what happened for the goals.

Its not “analysis” if you just look at the numbers for possession, shots, corners, etc, and draw conclusions from that.  Analysis is deeper than that and involves context too, it involves looking at the why, how, who, etc.  xG on its own isn’t analysis either.

Knee-jerk reactions, coupled with conscientious bias frustrate me.

Football is back.

 

[Rob k]

2 hours ago, luke_bristol said:

Is that Ian as in Ian Gay?

If it is i wont be listening - most negative City fan on the planet, the sort that will want City to lose so NP loses his job so he can say ‘told you so’ 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Rob k

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Cityboy1954 said:

Listened to the podcast cant argue with the fact we are too weak in the midfield james and williams lacking pace and very worried no striker being looked at even on loan hes made his mind up about wells and Conway nowhere near ready .

That’s all simply an opinion, not a “fact”, isn’t it?

You think “we are too weak in midfield” & Conway is “nowhere near ready”.

Those aren’t facts.

Facts are Tommy Conway has already scored a goal at Championship level & James & Williams have both played over 100 games at that level.

Edited July 31, 2022 by GrahamC

[Kykoliko]

7 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Was he noticeably tiring

Yes. I love Martin but he is consistently blowing out of his arse after 60 minutes. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I do love it how we always look for blame an individual or a department or both. Never any credit to the opposition, nor any collective “blame”. Nor is there reflection on the overall game, usually just what happened for the goals.

Its not “analysis” if you just look at the numbers for possession, shots, corners, etc, and draw conclusions from that.  Analysis is deeper than that and involves context too, it involves looking at the why, how, who, etc.  xG on its own isn’t analysis either.

Knee-jerk reactions, coupled with conscientious bias frustrate me.

Football is back.

 

It is for sure.

so far as analysis goes I like to look at how we could have prevented a goal being scored against us.

At the point we lose possession to the point the ball goes in the net without us having touched it again I like to see how it could have been prevented.

Do our analysts do the same? Does Nige have a debrief where he points out how the goal opportunities are created by opponents and then works on it in training?
 

Is it fair to say that all goals are preventable?

[daored]

3 hours ago, Rob k said:

If it is i wont be listening - most negative City fan on the planet, the sort that will want City to lose so NP loses his job so he can say ‘told you so’ 

If we don’t get a result against Sunderland , Pearson out will start with no clear replacement or acceptance of our current financial position. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by daored

[Curr Avon]

46 minutes ago, daored said:

If we don’t get a result against Sunderland , Pearson out will start with no clear replacement or acceptance of our current financial position. 

That won't happen. Because we're going to beat Sunderland! 

[daored]

22 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

That won't happen. Because we're going to beat Sunderland! 

Hopefully and negate the negativity for a week 

[Curr Avon]

Just now, daored said:

Hopefully and negate the negativity for a week 

Its going to happen, I can feel it in my water. Excuse me while I pop to the loo.

[HappyClapper]

1 hour ago, Countryfile said:

It is for sure.

so far as analysis goes I like to look at how we could have prevented a goal being scored against us.

At the point we lose possession to the point the ball goes in the net without us having touched it again I like to see how it could have been prevented.

Do our analysts do the same? Does Nige have a debrief where he points out how the goal opportunities are created by opponents and then works on it in training?
 

Is it fair to say that all goals are preventable?

Are you really suggesting that our professional football operation does not operate a n a professional manner????

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Countryfile said:

It is for sure.

so far as analysis goes I like to look at how we could have prevented a goal being scored against us.

At the point we lose possession to the point the ball goes in the net without us having touched it again I like to see how it could have been prevented.

Do our analysts do the same? Does Nige have a debrief where he points out how the goal opportunities are created by opponents and then works on it in training?
 

Is it fair to say that all goals are preventable?

Yes, I’m sure our club analysts do that and more.

I was more referring to FBC pod, when Ian says something like “I’ve been doing some analysis….”, comes up with something that is purely presentation of some random numbers without any context, and calls it analysis. Then two weeks later has to come up with some new numbers, because the old numbers no longer correlate with his previous opinion!

[luke_bristol]

7 hours ago, TomF said:

It is 

Cheers, I’m always keen to listen to level headed opinions from knowledgeable fans. I’ll try One Stream in Bristol.

[2015]

Listened to it. The audio was awful this week. 

We'll be fine guys, it's the 1st game of the season. Their 2 goals were very unlucky to concede

[Ally1971]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I do love it how we always look for blame an individual or a department or both. Never any credit to the opposition, nor any collective “blame”. Nor is there reflection on the overall game, usually just what happened for the goals.

Its not “analysis” if you just look at the numbers for possession, shots, corners, etc, and draw conclusions from that.  Analysis is deeper than that and involve context too, it involves looking at the why, how, who, etc.  xG on its own isn’t analysis either.

Knee-jerk reactions, coupled with conscientious bias frustrate me.

Football is back.

 

I went Saturday and thought City deserved something out of the game.  Felt for the 1st time in years City kept the ball well, to the extent that I was surprised possession was in Hull's favour according to BBC for first half.

I guess you sit and think, how come we got nothing, how come we didn't control for 90? 

I feel Pearson has to find James's replacement as he keeps it ticking over for a possession based team but not the intensity of a pressure based style. I'd rather see 'Dogs of War' in midfield like Joe Royles FA Cup winners, basic but honest.

However, there was not one player who I thought shouldn't be playing and it was great to see the unity but feel we are in between high press and possession style team. How do you rectify this I don't know and that's why I pay to watch, rather than get paid a 6 figure salary to manage the team.

[Cityboy1954]

16 hours ago, GrahamC said:

That’s all simply an opinion, not a “fact”, isn’t it?

You think “we are too weak in midfield” & Conway is “nowhere near ready”.

Those aren’t facts.

Facts are Tommy Conway has already scored a goal at Championship level & James & Williams have both played over 100 games at that level.

Louis Britton scored a goal at Championship level that didn't make him a championship player did it plus james and williams together offer nothing going forward thats why the forwards are lacking in creativity and I take it Nige is trying to add to the midfield?

[GrahamC]

4 minutes ago, Cityboy1954 said:

Louis Britton scored a goal at Championship level that didn't make him a championship player did it plus james and williams together offer nothing going forward thats why the forwards are lacking in creativity and I take it Nige is trying to add to the midfield?

Britton played once & never featured again, the fact (for that is what it is) that NP has given Conway 10 games now suggests he thinks he has got it.

You say Williams & James lack creativity, I (& others on this thread) think the former is a decent passer of the ball, but this is just opinion again, isn’t it?

Pearson did say he wanted another midfielder, but a defensive one. 
Like last year when he said he wanted a striker & then didn’t sign one, there is sadly a difference at present between what we would like & what we can afford.

[Cityboy1954]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Britton played once & never featured again, the fact (for that is what it is) that NP has given Conway 10 games now suggests he thinks he has got it.

You say Williams & James lack creativity, I (& others on this thread) think the former is a decent passer of the ball, but this is just opinion again, isn’t it?

Pearson did say he wanted another midfielder, but a defensive one. 
Like last year when he said he wanted a striker & then didn’t sign one, there is sadly a difference at present between what we would like & what we can afford.

Exactly unfortunately it's all to do with money something we haven't got I think if money was there Conway would be gone on loan maybe league one somewhere so he's a bit stuffed really I think most of what he's brought in are good players Naismith Wilson and Sykes. 

[Will Rollason]

17 hours ago, TomF said:

It is 

What name did he post under on here?

[IAmNick]

2 minutes ago, Will Rollason said:

What name did he post under on here?

Think this was him: https://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/profile/22-bristol-boy/

[headhunter]

17 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I do love it how we always look for blame an individual or a department or both. Never any credit to the opposition, nor any collective “blame”. Nor is there reflection on the overall game, usually just what happened for the goals.

Its not “analysis” if you just look at the numbers for possession, shots, corners, etc, and draw conclusions from that.  Analysis is deeper than that and involves context too, it involves looking at the why, how, who, etc.  xG on its own isn’t analysis either.

Knee-jerk reactions, coupled with conscientious bias frustrate me.

Football is back.

 

Dave, I never intended for FBC to carry out a forensic analysis of the teams performance - it has always been about just opinions regardless of how misjudged and ill informed they are.

We are knee jerk & I take the view that possibly this applies to most fans. To back that up, I took time out to listen to 3PIAPC yesterday and in their "how you feeling segment" one of the guys said they felt 5/10 at full time but by the time they'd got back to Bristol it was [generous!] 8/10. I also noted they did marks out of 10 for each player. This is a segment we used to run when you were a regular with us and which you felt was a somewhat fatuous form of analysis!!!

There is only one stat that matters in the cold light of day and that is points on the board. Whilst we were cheated by the ref the fact is we have lost 3 points from a winning position. FWIW I think our game management was poor in the closing stages. When 6 mins of time added on were shown we had scope to run the clock down with a double substitution : HNM & Wells on for Weimann [ran himself into the ground] and Martin [very tired].

[headhunter]

17 minutes ago, Will Rollason said:

What name did he post under on here?

Why the witch hunt over Ian FFS? I invite any of his critics to come on to our next live podcast which we'll record at 10.00 AM next Sunday as we review the Sunderland game.

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, headhunter said:

There is only one stat that matters in the cold light of day and that is points on the board. Whilst we were cheated by the ref the fact is we have lost 3 points from a winning position. FWIW I think our game management was poor in the closing stages. When 6 mins of time added on were shown we had scope to run the clock down with a double substitution : HNM & Wells on for Weimann [ran himself into the ground] and Martin [very tired].

This is cause & effect though, isn’t it?

Hull were brought back into the game by a terrible decision/dive & so we all have no idea what would have been the scenario going into injury time if that hadn’t happened.

As for the subs that just smacks of hindsight to me, I’ve lost count of the times you have slagged off HNM for lacking focus & playing like a headless chicken yet he’s now apparently the saviour to see the game out. Likewise Wells, for all his qualities, he really isn’t someone I’d be bringing on to replace Martin.

I note we did make a 89th minute sub & Klose came on, not sure that was exactly a success?