Massengo

[Silvio Dante]

I’m sure this won’t be the only player there’s a thread about, and it’s easy to point (correctly) to Vyner on the second goal and Naismith on the first, but for me, he was our biggest problem today.

I can also appreciate he wasn’t necessarily “set” coming in late, however this far into his time with us he should have a modicum of football intelligence. He doesn’t. If we’re playing from the back then angles to the CMs are huge. Not once in the second half was he in a position to receive and our options narrowed as a result. With Williams on a yellow he needed to be making tackles. He didn’t. When he did have the ball, he ran down blind alleys and didn’t use it.

It got so bad that Scott had to drop in and Massengo behind front two shortly before the sub to give us some kind of a body in there.

Primary school children run around a lot in games. By about year 5 they start understanding positioning a bit better. Han played like someone who was 8 years old and playing where he does, that always disjoints and impacts the team. I can’t fault his effort, but football intelligence is just not there and that - more than anything else - loses you games at this level.

[RudiRed]

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

I’m sure this won’t be the only player there’s a thread about, and it’s easy to point (correctly) to Vyner on the second goal and Naismith on the first, but for me, he was our biggest problem today.

I can also appreciate he wasn’t necessarily “set” coming in late, however this far into his time with us he should have a modicum of football intelligence. He doesn’t. If we’re playing from the back then angles to the CMs are huge. Not once in the second half was he in a position to receive and our options narrowed as a result. With Williams on a yellow he needed to be making tackles. He didn’t. When he did have the ball, he ran down blind alleys and didn’t use it.

It got so bad that Scott had to drop in and Massengo behind front two shortly before the sub to give us some kind of a body in there.

Primary school children run around a lot in games. By about year 5 they start understanding positioning a bit better. Han played like someone who was 8 years old and playing where he does, that always disjoints and impacts the team. I can’t fault his effort, but football intelligence is just not there and that - more than anything else - loses you games at this level.

I dont get the Massengo hype - looks like he will leave for £0 too, another Ashton masterclass.

[sh1t_ref_again]

Thought HNM was having a very good game until 40 minutes when he took another wack and seemed to be struggling after

[AshtonRobin21]

Seemed like the ball was getting caught under his feet for most of the game. 

There was a moment early in the second half where he didn't know what to do with it, then lost possession. 

Needs to take the opportunity when it presents itself. Without knowing the extent of James' injury, he could have used today as a chance to push for a regular starting place.

Didn't do enough today. 

[GrahamC]

The biggest problem for me is he never seems to know when to release the ball.

On those occasions he did something good with smart footwork he immediately tried to take on too many opposition players & lost possession or claimed to be fouled.

Got to say I thought Williams was really poor today too. 

Maybe Matty James is a better player than some think?

[cidercity1987]

Absolutely nothing player

Said it from day one

Has not improved 

Won't go for big bucks

Waste of money

[Mr Hankey]

Mythengo………amiright?

[Agard Days Night]

Han-Noah Massen-go away more like. Stealing a living at BCFC.

[Flagon]

Would probably look good in a good team

[Alan Dicks]

I’ve never understood the hype.

For me he offers little to nothing in defence or attack , doesn’t make telling passes, plus he’s never scored.

Runs down blind alleys, but his hair is very nice.

[westred1]

He’s a fan favourite because he has a point of difference… unfortunately his point of difference is his hair rather than his footballing ability!
 

Holds on to the ball too often, doesn’t dictate a game. Shows glimpses but not enough.

 

[Dullmoan Tone]

There was a moment in the first half where we broke on the right and Han had 2 choices (both unmarked) - a safe pass square and a forward diagonal in space - not much longer distance.

He took the safe pass and the move stalled eventually as they regrouped.
 

This sums up the majority of games I’ve seen him in - he needs at the very least a very different midfield partner. Sadly I can’t see him changing a game this year playing like this.

[1team]

I think you're being harsh. He won the ball back on several occasions and had 0 options. 

[RudiRed]

Just now, 1team said:

I think you're being harsh. He won the ball back on several occasions and had 0 options. 

There were times when he had numerous options and just held on to the ball far too long and got tackled. His distribution is Downs standard both in terms of delivery and the length of time he holds on to the ball.

[Garland-sweden]

Their second goal he jogging home and their player have all the time when he got the ball. If he keep his play simple he would be a better player.

[winsaw]

Thought he had a very good first half before tiring in the second, didn't do anything to cost us the game unlike some others, am surprised to see he's the one being singled out, 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, winsaw said:

Thought he had a very good first half before tiring in the second, didn't do anything to cost us the game unlike some others, am surprised to see he's the one being singled out, 

Thought he was okay first half, some good things, some not so. Second half we pretty much got dominated as a team.

But OTIB being OTIB, has to pick one or two players.

Why isn’t there a Naismith thread for example. Don’t get me wrong I think he’s a good player, but he had a poor game today.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Davefevs

[Red-Robbo]

He probably won us more yards in the first half than any other player, but although he can tackle, HNM has virtually no defensive presence as a midfielder. He's in the wrong place, he doesn't shadow, he doesn't spot danger. 

Having such a midfielder sitting fairly deep in the field is a liability when we're not going forward.

[winsaw]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Thought he was okay first half, some good things, some not so. Second half we pretty much got dominated as a team.

But OTIB being OTIB, has to pick one or two players.

Why isn’t there a Naismith thread for example. Don’t get me wrong I think he’s a good player, but he had a poor game today.

For me Naismith made one big mistake but looked pretty good for the rest of the match I guess others must be thinking the same, 

[Shuffle]

Not that either were good but personally thought HNM was more impactful than Williams who was anonymous until late run.

[Better Red]

Did ok for 45 mins

Always takes one touch to many either does not listen, not clever enough or not coached enough either way it’s stoping him getting the next level - Bottom half championship team and that is exactly where he is.

But he does carry the ball forward and creates momentum which we lack in midfield.

Also very little competition - we are at least 2 light in midfield

 

 

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, winsaw said:

For me Naismith made one big mistake but looked pretty good for the rest of the match I guess others must be thinking the same, 

I thought he made some poor decisions today, positionally he got caught too…plus their winner wasn’t a great piece of defending.

But if we judging today’s performance he’s getting one helluva free ride.  He’s barely being mentioned.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Davefevs

[RudiRed]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I thought he made some poor decisions today, positionally he got caught too…plus their winner was a great piece of defending.

But if we judging today’s performance he’s getting one helluva free ride.  He’s barely being mentioned.

Some players have credit in the bank, him being one, Kalas is another who gets less criticism.....one argument is that he has Had 1 poor game, where as the likes of Vyner, Massengo etc don't seem to be learning.

[maxjak]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Thought he was okay first half, some good things, some not so. Second half we pretty much got dominated as a team.

But OTIB being OTIB, has to pick one or two players.

Why isn’t there a Naismith thread for example. Don’t get me wrong I think he’s a good player, but he had a poor game today.

OTIB would not be OTIB   without it's regular post - match scapegoat witch hunts?..........it's mostly just pointless and negative? unless somebody has some proper constructive insight ?    

[grifty]

Han will do something really good, like a turn to break the lines or a tackle and it's like his brain freezes and he doesn't know what to do. I think he over complicates it and just needs to release the ball quicker. Williams seems good at finding space to be open for a pass from his midfield partner, whether it's James, Scott or Han, but Han doesn't seem to spot it.

For Naismith, he seems very good on the ball (first goal aside) and I like the way he brings the ball forward or places good balls into feet further up the pitch. He seems very slow and not particularly dominating in the air. I think ideally, he'd play left of the back 3, but Atkinson hasn't done anything wrong to be displaced. Maybe swapping them over? Have the more dominant (not that I think Atkinson is particularly dominating) in the middle? Would lose Naismiths organisation to the right, but we've conceded 5 in 2 anyway.

[collier]

1 minute ago, RudiRed said:

Some players have credit in the bank, him being one, Kalas is another who gets less criticism.....one argument is that he has Had 1 poor game, where as the likes of Vyner, Massengo etc don't seem to be learning.

What credit does he have in the bank? He has played 2 meaningful games for us. Ok last week he was unlucky with the penalty but he made the tackle. Today he gave the opposition a goal head start. He played some good forward passes today but as a centre half I want him judged on what he does as a defender. He has been a part of a defence that has conceded 5 in 180 mins.

[Davefevs]

Just now, RudiRed said:

Some players have credit in the bank, him being one, Kalas is another who gets less criticism.....one argument is that he has Had 1 poor game, where as the likes of Vyner, Massengo etc don't seem to be learning.

Absolutely players have credit in the bank.  But that’s when you’re evaluating over a period of games.

But posters are writing about today’s performance.…and then bringing up “history”.  I’m quite happy if people say Naismith (or whoever) is a better player than Vyner overall (I totally agree), but I don’t think you can rate today’s performance and then bring in other stuff.  That’s just bias.

[Fuber]

34 minutes ago, Flagon said:

Would probably look good in a good team

One of those midfielders, similar to Nagy, that in a three I can see how it would work.

Tactic doesn't help him. Square peg round hole etc.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Fuber

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, grifty said:

For Naismith, he seems very good on the ball (first goal aside) and I like the way he brings the ball forward or places good balls into feet further up the pitch. He seems very slow and not particularly dominating in the air. I think ideally, he'd play left of the back 3, but Atkinson hasn't done anything wrong to be displaced. Maybe swapping them over? Have the more dominant (not that I think Atkinson is particularly dominating) in the middle? Would lose Naismiths organisation to the right, but we've conceded 5 in 2 anyway.

Rob played centrally in a three last season and looked pretty comfortable.  In pre-season I was surprised when Naismith started as CB3 and Atkinson outside him as LCB3.  It is definitely an option to swap them over.

[ralphindevon]

Not easy being thrown into the team for your first game of the season at the last minute.

Thought he did ok first half, not sure he was a lot worse than Wiliams.

Was surprised with all the hype he's had how poor Naismith was, so slow out of the blocks. Im certainly not writing him off though, looks very comfortable on the ball. 

Hope Kalas is back soon