MattWSM Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 More stats...last 12 managers in order of lose % - after Saturday loss now 2nd to Steve Coppell. Manager-played/lost/% 1. SCoppell - 2/2/100 2. NP - 64/33/51 3. DM - 63/32/50 4. SoD - 44/20/45 5. DH - 43/19/44 6. KM - 69/29/42 7. LJ - 217/79/36 8. JP - 58/19/32 9. GJ - 239/74/30 10. BT - 61/17/27 11. DW - 226/64/28 12. SCotterill - 63/11/17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 Pretty irrelevant really. What would be better to see is percentages after it could be deemed to be that managers squad. Judging a manager from day one they take over is nonsense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc01 Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 Stats like that mean nothing without context. Bit like us - pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 Am I being stupid? I’m sat here trying to work out who JP is, who managed 58 games?? The only JP I can think of is John Pemberton, but he certainly didn’t manage us for 58 games? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, Harry said: Am I being stupid? I’m sat here trying to work out who JP is, who managed 58 games?? The only JP I can think of is John Pemberton, but he certainly didn’t manage us for 58 games? He might mean TP Tony Pulis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire robin Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, Harry said: Am I being stupid? I’m sat here trying to work out who JP is, who managed 58 games?? The only JP I can think of is John Pemberton, but he certainly didn’t manage us for 58 games? Maybe joe palmer from 1919 to 1921 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 1 minute ago, And Its Smith said: He might mean TP Tony Pulis? @Harry scrap that I can see TP did less than 58 games as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 Pretty damning that. The context is that now, NP pretty much has his own defence. Naismith, Atkinson, Klose, Wilson, Sykes are all NP signings When is it right to judge how shit our defending is? How much longer do we just say "ah give Nige time" We have 2 difficult away games and a severnside derby in the next 4 games - unless we pull out fingers out we could be sat at the bottom of the league then things will turn toxic 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsince1994 Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Harry said: Am I being stupid? I’m sat here trying to work out who JP is, who managed 58 games?? The only JP I can think of is John Pemberton, but he certainly didn’t manage us for 58 games? Just googled and for some reason Soccerbase thinks Pemberton managed us for 58 games, I assume this is where the data came from. Can't for the life of me work out why though! Edited August 8, 2022 by redsince1994 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 29 minutes ago, redsince1994 said: Just googled and for some reason Soccerbase thinks Pemberton managed us for 58 games, I assume this is where the data came from. Can't for the life of me work out why though! I think that should read 14 Jan 2016 when he, Wade & Wilbs held the fort for a few weeks until LJ started Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 2 hours ago, redsince1994 said: Just googled and for some reason Soccerbase thinks Pemberton managed us for 58 games, I assume this is where the data came from. Can't for the life of me work out why though! Ah ok. So, can the OP verify the rest of these stats are accurate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 If we want to use “stats” of all City managers, then shouldn’t we do it for games at this level only? It’s effing futile imho, even if you do that, but at least means you have a fairer comparison. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, Davefevs said: If we want to use “stats” of all City managers, then shouldn’t we do it for games at this level only? It’s effing futile imho, even if you do that, but at least means you have a fairer comparison. Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 2 hours ago, And Its Smith said: He might mean TP Tony Pulis? Doubt it TP didn’t finish a season did he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Davefevs said: If we want to use “stats” of all City managers, then shouldn’t we do it for games at this level only? It’s effing futile imho, even if you do that, but at least means you have a fairer comparison. I know it! It’s always difficult to make comparisons as circumstances differ wildly. The only thing that counts is Nigel Pearson has two years of a three year contract left. The guy was tasked to get rid of players on high wages whether that be to re-sign them on lower pay at the end of their contract or in overwhelmingly the case show them the door….Then rebuild the playing side making us as competitive as he can as quickly as he can, specifically through the academy, while not spending until money has been created by asset sale or pray to the lord almighty that one or two sell ons make it out of someone else’s door. LJ tasked himself with making the Europa League in five years (with assistance blowing money to the point we are still dealing with now) SOD was tasked with keeping us up (nil point for that) and bringing us back up (also nil point) SC tasked with get us up and make us decent (great job until he and Mr Lansdown fell out) Etc etc etc etc. Many don’t like the fact we have been a crap football club for the best part of fifty years and fair enough, I know I Don’t. However, crying about being crap, afterlosing two games by the odd goal, is as pointless as we are. Accept that even if Mr L wanted to splash more cash he can not until we are not in danger of a points deduction and thus we have to sign from the OOC market until further notice and build a team. But hey I’m old enough to remember that Alan Dicks was nearly fired (and That Paul effing Cheesley was the target of the boo boys initially) so the only thing new is this place where we can all express our opinions in the safety of living rooms! (or in my case a cruise ship in the North Atlantic…fLick it was rough this morning) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarksRobin Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 5 hours ago, MattWSM said: More stats...last 12 managers in order of lose % - after Saturday loss now 2nd to Steve Coppell. Manager-played/lost/% 1. SCoppell - 2/2/100 2. NP - 64/33/51 3. DM - 63/32/50 4. SoD - 44/20/45 5. DH - 43/19/44 6. KM - 69/29/42 7. LJ - 217/79/36 8. JP - 58/19/32 9. GJ - 239/74/30 10. BT - 61/17/27 11. DW - 226/64/28 12. SCotterill - 63/11/17 Pointless comparison, unless you think we acted too quickly to sack Brian Tinnion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Davefevs said: If we want to use “stats” of all City managers, then shouldn’t we do it for games at this level only? It’s effing futile imho, even if you do that, but at least means you have a fairer comparison. I couldn't agree more. The top three, effectively, on that list for least percentage of losses include two, Brian Tinnion and Danny Wilson, who never managed a game at this level and one, Cottrell, who had a half season at this level that was so bad that he was relieved of his duties despite having walked the League One title just months earlier. It's daft as it's not a level playing field Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Coles Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 5 hours ago, MattWSM said: More stats...last 12 managers in order of lose % - after Saturday loss now 2nd to Steve Coppell. Manager-played/lost/% 1. SCoppell - 2/2/100 2. NP - 64/33/51 3. DM - 63/32/50 4. SoD - 44/20/45 5. DH - 43/19/44 6. KM - 69/29/42 7. LJ - 217/79/36 8. JP - 58/19/32 9. GJ - 239/74/30 10. BT - 61/17/27 11. DW - 226/64/28 12. SCotterill - 63/11/17 GREAT INFO NOW PUT UP THE SPEND EACH MANAGER HAD AT HIS DISPOSAL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 I don't think that any stats are useful when using them to compare one Manager with another. What did they inherit/where were the team placed and at what point of the season and what was their budget and how many windows? When looking at Holden's tenure- he had an injury crisis pretty much unrivalled and never played a game in front of a crowd- should that play a part? Ultimately, it's us fans not stats that judge a manager and usually based on what we see and how we feel given the general circumstances like signings and performances. 9 minutes ago, Peter Coles said: GREAT INFO NOW PUT UP THE SPEND EACH MANAGER HAD AT HIS DISPOSAL NO NEED TO SHOUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 11 hours ago, And Its Smith said: Pretty irrelevant really. What would be better to see is percentages after it could be deemed to be that managers squad. Judging a manager from day one they take over is nonsense That's about the only possible way NP's record cam read worse than his overall record..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) Cotterill only lost 11 games? That’s not correct. We lost 5 in the L1 title winning season for a start let alone the first half of our first season back in the Championship. Edit: I figure we lost 24 League games under Cotterill. Pretty sure he managed more than 63 games as well. Edited August 9, 2022 by Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said: Cotterill only lost 11 games? That’s not correct. We lost 5 in the L1 title winning season for a start let alone the first half of our first season back in the Championship. They’re nonsense. Cotterill lost more than 11 in his last season with us, let alone the year & a half before. The point about games at Championship level & League One is spot on too. Wilson’s stats always look better because he was incapable of getting us promoted in 4 attempts. Ward, GJ & Cotterill all did it in their first full seasons.. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveybadger Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) So apart from inaccuracy of the stats and even the actual managers, any context in relation to spend, state of the club at the time and division we were in, this is quite interesting (sorry MattWSM, know you were only trying to start a debate). Edited August 9, 2022 by steveybadger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWSM Posted August 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, steveybadger said: So apart from inaccuracy of the stats and even the actual managers, any context in relation to spend, state of the club at the time and division we were in, this is quite interesting (sorry MattWSM, know you were only trying to start a debate). haha no problem, indeed I was but clearly some data issues here. Yes agree with all comments, i trusted Soccerbase but clearly holding wrong data as SC lost more than 11. If i have an hour later might do a quick factual check. Anyway...hopefully we get a better 'performance' tonight as not worried about the odd loss, just like last year I felt we were in it for many games but Sat thought we were well beaten generally in all areas 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsince1994 Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 Made a quick table from Transfermarkt, seems to be more accurate (no 58 random games for Pembo) Manager Games Losses Percentage Nigel Pearson 64 34 53.13% Derek McInnes 63 32 50.79% Keith Millen 57 27 47.37% Sean O'Driscoll 44 20 45.45% Dean Holden 41 18 43.90% Lee Johnson 217 80 36.87% Gary Johnson 237 74 31.22% Brian Tinnion 58 16 27.59% Danny Wilson 142 39 27.46% Steve Cotterill 116 28 24.14% 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWSM Posted August 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 1 hour ago, redsince1994 said: Made a quick table from Transfermarkt, seems to be more accurate (no 58 random games for Pembo) Manager Games Losses Percentage Nigel Pearson 64 34 53.13% Derek McInnes 63 32 50.79% Keith Millen 57 27 47.37% Sean O'Driscoll 44 20 45.45% Dean Holden 41 18 43.90% Lee Johnson 217 80 36.87% Gary Johnson 237 74 31.22% Brian Tinnion 58 16 27.59% Danny Wilson 142 39 27.46% Steve Cotterill 116 28 24.14% Thanks, my only consolation is the order is the same except KM has jumped up a couple of places Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 On 08/08/2022 at 11:37, And Its Smith said: Pretty irrelevant really. What would be better to see is percentages after it could be deemed to be that managers squad. Judging a manager from day one they take over is nonsense He has his own back 4, James, King. We concede a ridiculous amount of goals and goals that you’d be disappointed conceding at a much lower level. So many excuses for a bloke who’s taken this club backwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, Bs4Red said: He has his own back 4, James, King. We concede a ridiculous amount of goals and goals that you’d be disappointed conceding at a much lower level. So many excuses for a bloke who’s taken this club backwards I’m not making excuses for him at all. He’s got his squad now so over the next 10 games I’m expecting to see a rapid improvement. He cannot slag off the ability or mentality of people he signed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 On 08/08/2022 at 14:06, Davefevs said: If we want to use “stats” of all City managers, then shouldn’t we do it for games at this level only? It’s effing futile imho, even if you do that, but at least means you have a fairer comparison. I agree with you that it’s a bit meaningless, even if you only use stats for games of this level, as circumstances change. For example, the standard of the Championship now is far higher than that of the old Division 2 in the mid 60s and 70s when Alan Dicks was manager. Financial it is as also different, as in those days as City didn’t have to complete with teams who had enormous parachute payments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 4 hours ago, Bs4Red said: He has his own back 4, James, King. We concede a ridiculous amount of goals and goals that you’d be disappointed conceding at a much lower level. So many excuses for a bloke who’s taken this club backwards The analogy is he’s had to knock down the building to relay the foundations. It takes time. Just because they’re his players, doesn’t mean they are who he’d ideally get if he different funds available to him. He’s scrapping around free transfer and Lg1 / Lg2 players (also on frees). He can’t generate transfer funds from Vyner, Moore, etc…nor can he generate them from Wells, etc, because they won’t forego their huge wages (allegedly). Without transfer money, we are a huge loss making entity. The answer to that it to cut costs in the playing side…which he’s done. Sometimes you have to go backwards (summer 2022) to go forwards (end of last season). Oh, let’s shit the bed because we’ve lost the first two games. He is working with a thin squad with little depth , because the finances won’t allow it to be thin, but with depth / cover. He took over a mess. Yes, results are frustrating…but he hasn’t taken the club backwards…he’s rebuilding it with RG. 4 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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