Engvall on the move but continues to ply his trade in the top flight

[Northern Red]

1 minute ago, brady bunch said:

I think it was him who was lobbed from inside the oppo half whilst he was watching the firework display outside of the ground? It was after Kory Smith got caught with the ball, I think LJ lost faith in him at that point.

Yep, against Brighton. Was live on Sky as well.

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Add Watkins , Walsh , Nagy, Palmer , Bakinson  ..... to the wasted money ..... Compiling a full list would take time 

An easier list is , IIRC - Other than Webster we made no money on anyone except from players that were inherited 

You are deluded

100%, plus of course this poster struggles to understand cause & effect.

We were “competing” for top six, (never actually achieving it though), whilst accumulating losses that peaked at £38.4m.

That wasn’t sustainable, we were bailed out previously by Academy sales, Kelly, Reid & Bryan.

The other successes in the market, notably Webster & Brownhill & Flint were very much the exceptions.

Pearson didn’t think the likes of Diedhiou or Paterson were “conference standard”, he realised we were going bust if we kept going with a bloated, ridiculous wage bill & virtually everyone OoC had to go.

[Oh Louie louie]

Yes the webster fee was good.

Very good for a season here.

But for what we spent it on, may as well let him go on a free. probaly would have been better off!

 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Logical-City said:

Most were sold for a similar fee and had reputations which gave them a sell on value.

We had a plan to get to the Premier League by trading if Covid never happened this argument is void.

You can call it reckless but no one none of you could have predicted what happened between 2020-2021 it’s tiring to see people blame.

Pearsons quotes about collecting players have since empowered many of you to continue this argument my opinion is he said this to justify his own bad results over the last 2 seasons

Football is all about opinions but the fact is Johnson’s squad was competing for top 6 places but Pearson would have had you believe they were conference standard 2 years ago

Let me pose this…do you think it was a good strategy?  Is any strategy that pretty much relies on one major income method (transfer profit) a good strategy?  It’s the equivalent of the stock market and “putting all your eggs in one basket”…which any IFA would advise you not to do.

Most weren’t solid….we lost money overall on players signed and sold in Ashton’s time here…and that was in an inflationary market.

Its easy to look at “transfer profit” in the accounts but ignore wage increases, amortisation increases.

I could write reams and reams on this.  All Covid did was expose the strategy.  I have been for 4 years plus.  Unprecedented medically, not unprecedented in football, e.g. On Digital.

It was a disaster waiting to happen.

Nige never had LJ’s squad.  The key players like Brownhill, Pack, Webster, etc, were gone during LJ’s time.  LJ did okay (this isn’t a LJ debate)…the powers above were reckless.  SL included….quite the opposite of how he ran HL!

Edited August 12, 2022 by Davefevs

[Port Said Red]

I remember there being a picture of Engvall when he signed, with about 4 "agents/liggers" with him and thinking this doesn't look right at all.

I would love to know what Ashton was getting out of these deals with people no one had ever heard of 

[Oh Louie louie]

Reguarding the fees, of kelly, reid and bryan.

This is a much diffrent market now.

If we get a bid, anything bigger, than what we got for them, id be amazed.

I really cant see why some people are expecting 25 million bids.

 

[RudiRed]

2 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Reguarding the fees, of kelly, reid and bryan.

This is a much diffrent market now.

If we get a bid, anything bigger, than what we got for them, id be amazed.

I really cant see why some people are expecting 25 million bids.

 

Keane Lewis Potter went for £16mil plus a stack of add ons in the summer, 12 goals. 

Semenyo has the highest ceiling, he scores goals, he hits double figures this season then we may be looking at a similar ball park. 

 

[Oh Louie louie]

Yep, bryan reid, and flint were consistent as they come at this level,

Brownhill too.

Looking at those fees, would be much more pragmatic.

[Antman]

5 hours ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

I remember when he came on at Watford in the cup a few days before the Man City semi and he looked like he was borrowing someone else's legs.

similarly remember him warming up at AG, he looked like he had concrete boots on. we all looked at each other with a collective 'WTF' moment

[Oh Louie louie]

If spending at man city has halfed, barcelna are skint.

Dont think for one minute, players fees have doubled in the championship. being my point.

[Red-Robbo]

2 hours ago, Son of Fred said:

Good luck??

The bloke carried a poor attitude & didn't put in the required effort here.

 

Not sure that's the case. More the fact, he wasn't good enough.

The fact he wasn't, is the fault of the 'recruitment team' that signed him, and potentially, his agent.  What footballer is going to turn down the chance of a crack at the English second tier?

Let's face it, if City wanted to pay me several grand a week to try to get good enough to feature, I'd sign on the dotted. The fact I would make Bas Savage look like Mo Salah would be the fault of whoever was mad enough to recruit me!

[Logical-City]

2 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Add Watkins , Walsh , Nagy, Palmer , Bakinson  ..... to the wasted money ..... Compiling a full list would take time 

An easier list is , IIRC - Other than Webster we made no money on anyone except from players that were inherited 

You are deluded

Those players were not released by Johnson they were signed by him and before a covid pandemic that I guess you and a few others on here must have predicted 

Brownhill, Elliason? Inherited Bobby Reid and Joe Bryan ?

Reid was on his way out of the club and Bryan was back up to Golbourne when LJ arrived that £16m in transfer fees was his work!

I would also wager we don’t get to a league cup semi final Middlesbrough don’t pay £7m for Flint so I count that as a Johnson win also.

So that’s Webster, Reid , Flint , Brownhill,Elliason I would also put Kodjia in that list as he was only on 10 goals before LJ arrived in January 2016 ended up going for £15m after reaching 19 so he made a lot of money of his work this rewrite of history is embarrassing!

You did not predict Covid 19

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Logical-City

[BTRFTG]

18 hours ago, Agard Days Night said:

it didn’t work out for him here for all manner of reasons.

It didn't work out for him for one reason and one reason only. He's devoid of footballing talent.

[BTRFTG]

54 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I remember there being a picture of Engvall when he signed, with about 4 "agents/liggers" with him and thinking this doesn't look right at all.

I would love to know what Ashton was getting out of these deals with people no one had ever heard of 

As Johnson openly discussed at a Senior Reds luncheon shortly after Engvald made his debut they'd made a 'panic signing' days ahead of the season, knew next to nothing of him other than raw stats, had never seen him play and when finally getting the chance so to do immediately realised the huge mistake they'd made.

[Northern Red]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

As Johnson openly discussed at a Senior Reds luncheon shortly after Engvald made his debut they'd made a 'panic signing' days ahead of the season, knew next to nothing of him other than raw stats, had never seen him play and when finally getting the chance so to do immediately realised the huge mistake they'd made.

Interesting. First time I've heard that although not at all surprising.

[Son of Fred]

3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Not sure that's the case. More the fact, he wasn't good enough.

The fact he wasn't, is the fault of the 'recruitment team' that signed him, and potentially, his agent.  What footballer is going to turn down the chance of a crack at the English second tier?

Let's face it, if City wanted to pay me several grand a week to try to get good enough to feature, I'd sign on the dotted. The fact I would make Bas Savage look like Mo Salah would be the fault of whoever was mad enough to recruit me!

Refused to go out on loan - point blank.

[Sheltons Army]

3 hours ago, Logical-City said:

Those players were not released by Johnson they were signed by him and before a covid pandemic that I guess you and a few others on here must have predicted 

Brownhill, Elliason? Inherited Bobby Reid and Joe Bryan ?

Reid was on his way out of the club and Bryan was back up to Golbourne when LJ arrived that £16m in transfer fees was his work!

I would also wager we don’t get to a league cup semi final Middlesbrough don’t pay £7m for Flint so I count that as a Johnson win also.

So that’s Webster, Reid , Flint , Brownhill,Elliason I would also put Kodjia in that list as he was only on 10 goals before LJ arrived in January 2016 ended up going for £15m after reaching 19 so he made a lot of money of his work


This rewrite of history is embarrassing!

 

 

You are correct - the desperate attempt to defend Lee Johnson and Ashtons spending sprees is simply laughable , and embarrassing !

If you think our current mess is all down to Co Vid , well.....:laugh:.......but then again you are trying to avoid facts and the truth
 

By your method and attempts to credit our Lee, wait another year or two and if Alex Scott goes for a fair few million , you can credit him for that , as he has heard of Alex Scott , and can spell his name

Johnson spent a fortune here (Again I’ll remind you , the signing on fees, agent fees , wage bills ....besides the numerous duds signed and money lost on fees) and laurel and hardy left us with a ticking time bomb

 

Just to point out how desperate you are to paint a laughable credit list

Joe Bryan was back up to Scott Golbourne eh ?

the Joe Bryan that Cotts played 50 times the previous season ?

Strange that as Golboune only signed days before LJ was officially announced ...

You can only be Lees Mum 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Sheltons Army

[Red Exile]

3 hours ago, Logical-City said:

... this rewrite of history is embarrassing!

Indeed it is!  

[petehinton]

3 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Even without Cold, there is not a hope we were going turn a profit on Wells (30 yers old shown not up to Prem) , Kalas (had played with promoted championship sides, none signed him for the Prem) or Palmer (not secured a sequence of starts for various loan clubs) . You can go on.If that was not reckless, then I am not sure what more you want. We can add in Famara, he went for nothing, not sure where you  seeing the profit signs there . Thats at least £20 m in transfers and god knows how much in wages. Down the drain. 

The squad Johnson created and left the club with was not competing for top 6 , and had minimal resale value. That is why he got sacked, after the biggest most reckless, uncordinated spending spree ever resulted in a team going nowhere. Unfit, a squad divided , and ultimately unprofessional. It would have bankrupted many clubs . Some legacy that.

Pearson has had to halve the wage costs, and also managed to turn 2 players into multi million assets, get Weimann. scoring goals for fun, and had to live with limited resources. When he does leave, someone is going to inherit a far better club, without the dramas and with a clear operating plan. He has navigated out of a huge mess, that normally would have seen the club relegated. We were not, and will not be relegated this season. Indeed, only 2 games in, it is not clear where we will end up, but it is almost certainly going to be progress. 

 

Was actually discussing this with a mate the other day. That January window a few months before the season stopped is easily the most horrifically scramble together of players in my team supporting the club. Even worse than the summer under Coppell. 
 

Both windows that season were absolute carnage, a total shitshow and we’re well and truly paying the price now. 

[Son of Fred]

12 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

laurel and hardy left us with a ticking time bomb

You can only be Lees Mum 

 

[Northern Red]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

Was actually discussing this with a mate the other day. That January window a few months before the season stopped is easily the most horrifically scramble together of players in my team supporting the club. Even worse than the summer under Coppell. 
 

Both windows that season were absolute carnage, a total shitshow and we’re well and truly paying the price now. 

Yep, it felt like they took the player trading to new levels and lost sight of the need to have a cohesive, balanced squad of players.

No coincidence that LJ didn't end up seeing out that season.

[Logical-City]

1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

You are correct - the desperate attempt to defend Lee Johnson and Ashtons spending sprees is simply laughable , and embarrassing !

If you think our current mess is all down to Co Vid , well.....:laugh:.......but then again you are trying to avoid facts and the truth
 

By your method and attempts to credit our Lee, wait another year or two and if Alex Scott goes for a fair few million , you can credit him for that , as he has heard of Alex Scott , and can spell his name

Johnson spent a fortune here (Again I’ll remind you , the signing on fees, agent fees , wage bills ....besides the numerous duds signed and money lost on fees) and laurel and hardy left us with a ticking time bomb

 

Just to point out how desperate you are to paint a laughable credit list

Joe Bryan was back up to Scott Golbourne eh ?

the Joe Bryan that Cotts played 50 times the previous season ?

Strange that as Golboune only signed days before LJ was officially announced ...

You can only be Lees Mum 

When Johnson was in charge he infuriated me with his team selections in key games and mistakes he made as a football manager. But overall we have had much worse managers who have relegated us and spent with no success.

We had good times under Johnson some big results beating Fulham routinely at craven cottage, beating Man United a top 8 finish, the 3-2 win at Sheffield United when they were clear in second place 

The stick he gets in comparison to a Coppell,Millen Mcinnes for example 2 much more damaging influences in our recent history, managers who completely slowed our momentum baffles me!

Pearson joined us based on LJs results and reputation he built while in charge we are a respectable championship club.

I want Pearson to succeed and I think he will this season I like the team he has built 

[Bristol Oil Services]

28 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Which says it all, and is not the only player we signed without scouting and doing our due diligence. It leaves you speechless. LJ had the hotline to Step L , why did he not use it to say we are doing bonkers stuff ? Ashton was clearly out of control, but LJ needed to do far better. It is now why we are struggling to survive. But when we do get out of this mess , we will be a far more professional club in all areas. Finally not making it up as we go along. 

Very wealthy people are told what they want to hear - "How's it going with Mark, Lee?" "Great, Steve. Top, top chief scout, sorry, executive. Knows what he wants, er, what needs to be done. Onwards and upwards, blah blah etc etc" - more than what is often true or real, I have often read. 

Lee casting doubt on Ashton would've been criticising Lansdown's judgement. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 minute ago, billywedlock said:

 not a manager. Lansdown , a multi billionaire, can deal with people telling some home truths. He might 

That's something I haven't read often, or ever.

[Bristol Oil Services]

5 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

He might not agree. He might fire you. But the big boys are made of sterner stuff. Most, in my experience, appreciate it, if your intentions are professional not political/personal.  When you have the relationship LJ had, Steve could deal with it. 

Fair enough. Maybe Johnson did, but Steve took another view. Maybe that was why he was fired, when we were 12th!

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

On 12/08/2022 at 09:14, DaveF said:

You could see the logic with Styvar, 30 goals in 57 matches for Zilina is obviously a good record. Doesn't look like he did much after leaving us tho.

I’m pretty sure he was a right back who was used as an emergency striker! And it work for whatever reason for a that season! But he was really a striker!

[DaveF]

5 hours ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

I’m pretty sure he was a right back who was used as an emergency striker! And it work for whatever reason for a that season! But he was really a striker!

I think that was a rumour, you don't bag 30 in 57 from right back.

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, DaveF said:

I think that was a rumour, you don't bag 30 in 57 from right back.

That Lee Trundle included in his autobiography in a fit of pique.