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31 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Showing spirit and digging in isn't enough Dave - it like describing the kid who came last at the school sports day. 

I want some footballing ability and winning performances.

It’ll come. Don’t discount how Wednesday’s result and today will help build confidence. It’s small crumbs, but often better periods start with something that appears unconvincing.

We have played sone good stuff in each game so far. Sone poor stuff too. I don’t get too up nor too down either.

27 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

But we have had a "huge financial advantage" over Preston, Millwall and others up until covid and yet Preston have managed a best finish of 7th and finished above us in all but one of this spell of seven Championship seasons, and Millwall on a comparatively shoes string budget have matched our best of 8th twice. Luton with peanuts reached the play-offs. Being a bit strapped for cash is an excuse, as well as a reason. It doesn’t excuse playing two promoted sides in your first three games and being bottom of the pile. Why are we shite when we have less money than Preston? They're not shite when they have less than us.*

Preston were buying lads out of Irish football and shit-housing us off the park when we had more dosh to throw at it, pre covid. Where have Millwall been shopping? (I genuinely don't know).

We do have Kalas, Weimann, Dasilva, Bentley, Martin as well as the lower league lads you list, so we're not a squad of L1 and 2 boys trying to step up.

It's a poor start after two and a half very poor years. Nige has had long enough now to have a bit more of an impact than this. But it's early days still, too early yet to be sure what lies ahead, and if Weimann, Kalas and Semenyo when they return remain injury free for the rest of the season, I remain hopeful that we can finish above the drop.

But not above Preston or Millwall, I wouldn't have thought.

 

 

 

 

* perhaps @Red Exile has the answer to this, earlier in the thread.

Your opening para resonates with me, because for me, it shows how Billy big bollox we thought we were / had became. No humility in the way we thought we’d become “big”…yet every season one or more so called little clubs finished above us. We never won that mini-league despite creating far bigger losses.

That is one of the reasons I wasn’t big on “season by season progression” - it was a false measure. We bought perceived success, it wasn’t really success and it wasn’t built. It was a pay day loan mentality.

Being totally honest I would’ve expected Nige to have done a bit better, but even players like Bentley and Kalas (just two examples) have been inconsistent. When your senior pros are like that it’s perhaps a job made harder. 

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2 hours ago, RudiRed said:

He has got a lot more leeway than anyone else would have and that's because he is a big name.

Leeway required IMO

Inherited awful, highly paid squad who were not worth what we paid. 
 

First job was very much off the field in managing out the shirkers and we are making good progress on that front. 
 

Has he made mistakes? Yes, I’m sure he reflects on Simpson, which has been made a lot of. 
 

When there was a magic money tree we made lots of mistakes we recruited Rodri, Doni, Stefan dodgy keeper,  Kent, Engvall and probably other players I can’t now remember. 
 

Despite the magic money tree we only finished 8th. We now have no financial leeway so my expectations are lower. I do think we are tactically naive at times and Nige has a key role to play in this.

Not what fans want to hear but this is the reality of the situation. 

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13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Your opening para resonates with me, because for me, it shows how Billy big bollox we thought we were / had became. No humility in the way we thought we’d become “big”…yet every season one or more so called little clubs finished above us. We never won that mini-league despite creating far bigger losses.

This resonates with me too. Comments such as a premier league club in training just reinforced our attitude. I can remember the game at Luton where on a boiling hot afternoon, we strutted out needlessly in our tracksuit tops before tossing them to Murray. We had an air of superiority about us but Luton just looked at us before smashing us 3-0.

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’ll come. Don’t discount how Wednesday’s result and today will help build confidence. It’s small crumbs, but often better periods start with something that appears unconvincing.

We have played sone good stuff in each game so far. Sone poor stuff too. I don’t get too up nor too down either.

Your opening para resonates with me, because for me, it shows how Billy big bollox we thought we were / had became. No humility in the way we thought we’d become “big”…yet every season one or more so called little clubs finished above us. We never won that mini-league despite creating far bigger losses.

That is one of the reasons I wasn’t big on “season by season progression” - it was a false measure. We bought perceived success, it wasn’t really success and it wasn’t built. It was a pay day loan mentality.

Being totally honest I would’ve expected Nige to have done a bit better, but even players like Bentley and Kalas (just two examples) have been inconsistent. When your senior pros are like that it’s perhaps a job made harder. 

You've hit the nail very sweetly. IMO, none of our big money (pay rather than transfer fee) have proved to be the quality that one assumed they would consistently be. 

And coupled with the lack of academy advancement and the financial mess left by a certain individual, it is now proving to be a lot more difficult to even become a comfortable mid table outfit. 

While it is extremely frustrating to draw or lose games that we feel should be three points in the bag, we cannot afford, financially, playing wise, rebuilding, pathway for the upcoming, to expect any other manager to do any better than Pearson. 

So while I hoped for more consistent performances this season, it seems we may well struggle for our status to remain. Much as we all want total safety and looking upward, if we are true City supporters, we must keep going in the same way that we expect from the playing staff. 

Better half dragging me on holiday until end of August so miss two home game. Please everyone, give them a cheer from me.

 

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1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

Under LJ we progressed each season,  until the end. 

We were regularly at least outside hopefulls of a playoff challenge. 

Please show me the stats from LJ's time here against those of NP... 

Show me the increases and decreases in wage spending with regards to the same correlations, namely in context of turnover.

We mathematically progressed sure.

However, aside from the cup run, after the Wolves game that season it was a slow disaster unfolding ranging from tactical suicide and finances to culture and dressing room in unrest, a prime example of a statistic with no context being used to paint an incorrect picture.

Pearson, on estimate (and @Davefevs can feel free to correct me) has probably probably had his wage budget reduced by around or at least 35% of that of LJ's final season due to the asinine strategy employed by JL and MA on their tenure.

It's much easier to have problems solved chucking money at it than cutting costs.

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44 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Fair comment.

So do I, re Klose there are a couple of possible answers:

He’s carrying a knock.

The disruption of his other half being in Switzerland & giving birth to their first child this week, means he’s not quite ready.

That he’s returned to training & at 34, we are seeing the first signs of a deterioration in his game.

I obviously don’t know but agree from a distance he’s a more logical pick.

Yep could be anything. Probably last most likely? Just found it odd is all. Ironic Cundy struggling a bit at Barnsley and possibly had a chance to stay in the team here

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32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’ll come. Don’t discount how Wednesday’s result and today will help build confidence. It’s small crumbs, but often better periods start with something that appears unconvincing.

We have played sone good stuff in each game so far. Sone poor stuff too. I don’t get too up nor too down either.

Your opening para resonates with me, because for me, it shows how Billy big bollox we thought we were / had became. No humility in the way we thought we’d become “big”…yet every season one or more so called little clubs finished above us. We never won that mini-league despite creating far bigger losses.

That is one of the reasons I wasn’t big on “season by season progression” - it was a false measure. We bought perceived success, it wasn’t really success and it wasn’t built. It was a pay day loan mentality.

Being totally honest I would’ve expected Nige to have done a bit better, but even players like Bentley and Kalas (just two examples) have been inconsistent. When your senior pros are like that it’s perhaps a job made harder. 

You've been saying it'll come for months. It won't as Pearson isn't good enough to get us there. 

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7 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Show me the increases and decreases in wage spending with regards to the same correlations, namely in context of turnover.

We mathematically progressed sure.

However, aside from the cup run, after the Wolves game that season it was a slow disaster unfolding ranging from tactical suicide and finances to culture and dressing room in unrest, a prime example of a statistic with no context being used to paint an incorrect picture.

Pearson, on estimate (and @Davefevs can feel free to correct me) has probably probably had his wage budget reduced by around or at least 35% of that of LJ's final season due to the asinine strategy employed by JL and MA on their tenure.

It's much easier to have problems solved chucking money at it than cutting costs.

I’d argue it is just a correction to what it should have been. 
 

I am trying to balance the situation NP inherited and the performances. My argument is 65 league games and the same problems with him having had some scope to shape the team. The first 3 games is worrying for me performance wise. Why when had a bit of positivity to finish last season and going into this one, have we reverted to pre christmas last season form? But it could just be a bad start and we kick on but you can’t blame people being skeptical. 
 

@Fuber not all that response directed at you. Just a bit more to add to the overall conversation

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Embarrassing?  In what way?

Frustrating at times…yep.  Showed spirit though.  Dug in.  Isn’t that a positive?

Other teams are happy to have a decent spell or two in a game.

City not dominating, doesn’t mean our opponent is either.

 

If showing spirit and being positive is your benchmark for players being paid to play football then that fair enough.

For me that’s a bare minimum. 

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8 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Who is then . Remit . Halve the salary bill and have zero to spend . Easy job hey 

We missed the boat on cooper and wilder. Clearly there hasnt been zero to spend, 2 million went on atkinson and tanner, hes signed 3 left footed centre backs, plus baker 2 right backs who cant get a game, and another who was let go in disgrace. And a couple of midfielders who are rarely fit. Wouldnt be a problem is we had the first clue how to defend though!

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2 hours ago, mozo said:

A very 2022 thread; polarised.

I'm more in the middle. 

Yes, NP inherited a shitshow.

But he also hasn't been perfect. Some decisions have been odd.

He's perfectly deserving of both praise and criticism, in moderation. As are most people. 

I wouldn't even criticise Nige. He's up against it. But football's rich with examples of miracles worked against the odds, minnows somehow having their day, clubs outperforming reasonable expectations. And at this moment, very early in the season, and after 18 months in the job, it doesn't appear as though anything of the sort is happening with Nige here. 

We hope for more than this because if there isn't, it's back to L1 we go.

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1 minute ago, Simon bristol said:

We missed the boat on cooper and wilder. Clearly there hasnt been zero to spend, 2 million went on atkinson and tanner, hes signed 3 left footed centre backs, plus baker 2 right backs who cant get a game, and another who was let go in disgrace. And a couple of midfielders who are rarely fit. Wouldnt be a problem is we had the first clue how to defend though!

All clubs are struggling. Over half the league haven't spent any money and most of the rest have taken more money than spent whilst cutting their wage budget at the same time. 

As usual though you're not a fan if you point out that Pearson doesn't have the hardest job in the league. 

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1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Yep, but that was then & this is now. All Preston’s hoodoo over us (a bit reduced of late) shows is that Alex Neil is a better manager than LJ, & Sunderland fans are now seeing that.

This summer Millwall paid a million for a Dutch midfielder, signed Hull’s second best player last season (Honeyman), Benik Afobe on a permanent deal & yesterday brought in a striker from Union Berlin, that is fairly strong evidence as to how they have come out of the pandemic shock in a far better position than us.

We do have the players you list, unfortunately Kalas hasn’t played since early March & is a big miss, but if you look at our overall numbers they are small & we don’t have a single outfield player bar him in the sweet spot ages of 26-29.

It isn’t a great start but we could definitely have got something at Hull with a better rub of the green, small sample size though.

Fair enough. Juliette Binoche on the telly at moment, by the way. Might help with not thinking about Preston and our budgetary disadvantage. I'm giving it a go.

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1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

 if you look at our overall numbers they are small & we don’t have a single outfield player bar him in the sweet spot ages of 26-29.

 

That's a good spot, actually, and pretty concerning. Weimann, you might say, is in a "sweet" phase of his career but otherwise, that looks to be a weakness

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6 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

All clubs are struggling. Over half the league haven't spent any money and most of the rest have taken more money than spent whilst cutting their wage budget at the same time. 

As usual though you're not a fan if you point out that Pearson doesn't have the hardest job in the league. 

Weve been basically shite for the last 40 years, the time ive been supporting them. Anyone is entitled to feel angry with all the false dawns, signings who have been crap, pathetic management appointments and anyone good having been sold. Im pretty sure there was a widespread positive response when pearson was appointed, but he still cant organise a defence no matter who he brings in. Its not been 3 games, its been 1.5 years that this has been happening. We are at the stage now where its a surprise when we dont lose to a late goal!

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27 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

We missed the boat on cooper and wilder. Clearly there hasnt been zero to spend, 2 million went on atkinson and tanner, hes signed 3 left footed centre backs, plus baker 2 right backs who cant get a game, and another who was let go in disgrace. And a couple of midfielders who are rarely fit. Wouldnt be a problem is we had the first clue how to defend though!

Who was the full back we ‘let go in disgrace’ ?

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1 hour ago, Fuber said:

Show me the increases and decreases in wage spending with regards to the same correlations, namely in context of turnover.

We mathematically progressed sure.

However, aside from the cup run, after the Wolves game that season it was a slow disaster unfolding ranging from tactical suicide and finances to culture and dressing room in unrest, a prime example of a statistic with no context being used to paint an incorrect picture.

Pearson, on estimate (and @Davefevs can feel free to correct me) has probably probably had his wage budget reduced by around or at least 35% of that of LJ's final season due to the asinine strategy employed by JL and MA on their tenure.

It's much easier to have problems solved chucking money at it than cutting costs.

Not just wage budget, but amortisation costs halved last season and this…and will be a tenth next season as it stands.  That’s some overall budget cut isn’t it?  No wonder we have a thin squad.

58 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

You've been saying it'll come for months. It won't as Pearson isn't good enough to get us there. 

I think we are generally trending up from the start of last season, when we had to go backwards to go forwards.  I don’t take 3 league games in isolation.  Last season we never took less than 3 points in a four game run…ie. We never had a bad run of results….below par sometimes, absolutely. But never a bad run, we always found a result.

The win percentage for those of you that like those things is generally on the up too (5 game rolling average type stuff).

So I think it is coming, and continues to come.

49 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

You make out like we are the only club cutting it's wage bill. Clubs up and down our league are 

Not to the extent we are and not to the extent we had to last summer when we bailed with players like Diedhiou.  We are in a small group of clubs really struggling financially.  We have addressed this but this takes a while to play out.

I thought we’d have resolved the contract situations of Wells, Massengo, Bentley, Dasilva, Kalas by now.  Trying to gain a signature to reduce a wage isn’t gonna be something a player does in a timeframe we can push.

 

 

But here’s the big positive:

At least None of us are as completely delusional as Ian Gay, who thinks we should be approaching Carlos Corberan!

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What fantasy world does he live in?

I’d hate to tell him that he’s manager of Olympiacos, but that’s irrelevant, as he would never come to a club in our situation.  Christ, he wouldn’t even stay at Huddersfield.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Not just wage budget, but amortisation costs halved last season and this…and will be a tenth next season as it stands.  That’s some overall budget cut isn’t it?  No wonder we have a thin squad.

I think we are generally trending up from the start of last season, when we had to go backwards to go forwards.  I don’t take 3 league games in isolation.  Last season we never took less than 3 points in a four game run…ie. We never had a bad run of results….below par sometimes, absolutely. But never a bad run, we always found a result.

The win percentage for those of you that like those things is generally on the up too (5 game rolling average type stuff).

So I think it is coming, and continues to come.

Not to the extent we are and not to the extent we had to last summer when we bailed with players like Diedhiou.  We are in a small group of clubs really struggling financially.  We have addressed this but this takes a while to play out.

I thought we’d have resolved the contract situations of Wells, Massengo, Bentley, Dasilva, Kalas by now.  Trying to gain a signature to reduce a wage isn’t gonna be something a player does in a timeframe we can push.

 

 

But here’s the big positive:

At least None of us are as completely delusional as Ian Gay, who thinks we should be approaching Carlos Corberan!

05697CE8-4040-4BC8-931B-B9756BC3CE71.thumb.jpeg.f2a92055de1f69794ab75d664e5508b5.jpeg

What fantasy world does he live in?

I’d hate to tell him that he’s manager of Olympiacos, but that’s irrelevant, as he would never come to a club in our situation.  Christ, he would stay at Huddersfield.

Next he'll suggest Dyche.

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SAME OLD SAME OLD

so it's the same silly comments  about if not Nige then who?

Any  suggestion of a new manager however insightful or plain stupid is totally effing irrelevant ( take note @billywedlock)- the idea that some poster who  suddenly comes up with who the next manager should be and then SL sees it on here and appoints him is delusional and , imho, a bit thick.

Get real .

 

So every time we have a scape goat- Vyner.... and increasingly Dasilva - how come any slagging off isnt immediately followed by the name of who should replace them???

We are not in possession of the facts of how NP is viewed by BCFC and will most certainly not be involved in when he will leave  which 100% he will and there is zero chance "we" will have input on who is the next manager.

 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not just wage budget, but amortisation costs halved last season and this…and will be a tenth next season as it stands.  That’s some overall budget cut isn’t it?  No wonder we have a thin squad.

 

 

 

But here’s the big positive:

At least None of us are as completely delusional as Ian Gay, who thinks we should be approaching Carlos Corberan!

05697CE8-4040-4BC8-931B-B9756BC3CE71.thumb.jpeg.f2a92055de1f69794ab75d664e5508b5.jpeg

What fantasy world does he live in?

I’d hate to tell him that he’s manager of Olympiacos, but that’s irrelevant, as he would never come to a club in our situation.  Christ, he wouldn’t even stay at Huddersfield.

Wow, epic fail.

Not like him to fail to do his research & spout shite, is it?

Wilder & Cooper, that’s who we missed out on..

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52 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not just wage budget, but amortisation costs halved last season and this…and will be a tenth next season as it stands.  That’s some overall budget cut isn’t it?  No wonder we have a thin squad.

I think we are generally trending up from the start of last season, when we had to go backwards to go forwards.  I don’t take 3 league games in isolation.  Last season we never took less than 3 points in a four game run…ie. We never had a bad run of results….below par sometimes, absolutely. But never a bad run, we always found a result.

The win percentage for those of you that like those things is generally on the up too (5 game rolling average type stuff).

So I think it is coming, and continues to come.

Not to the extent we are and not to the extent we had to last summer when we bailed with players like Diedhiou.  We are in a small group of clubs really struggling financially.  We have addressed this but this takes a while to play out.

I thought we’d have resolved the contract situations of Wells, Massengo, Bentley, Dasilva, Kalas by now.  Trying to gain a signature to reduce a wage isn’t gonna be something a player does in a timeframe we can push.

 

 

But here’s the big positive:

At least None of us are as completely delusional as Ian Gay, who thinks we should be approaching Carlos Corberan!

05697CE8-4040-4BC8-931B-B9756BC3CE71.thumb.jpeg.f2a92055de1f69794ab75d664e5508b5.jpeg

What fantasy world does he live in?

I’d hate to tell him that he’s manager of Olympiacos, but that’s irrelevant, as he would never come to a club in our situation.  Christ, he wouldn’t even stay at Huddersfield.

The gift that keeps on giving. You have to hand it to the bloke mind, he’s absolutely hilarious!

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4 hours ago, Red Exile said:

To be honest Joe I've not watched many City away matches in which we had more than 20-30 minutes looking very good! Unless we were in the divisions below and playing someone pretty dire. It's more usually a case of capitalising on that spell and stealing the points. Shame we didn't do that today. It's not promising to be a great season but watching the side develop week in week out can be very satisfying - hang in there!

No more likes. You are right about the away days though! Think last away win I saw was Peterborough which wasn’t too bad. But cardiff and qpr before it were a bit like today ? I guess what I don’t get is why we can’t get the good spells back in a game. Our 20-30 min spells are all at once and if we don’t score 2-3 in that time it seems inevitable we’ll drop points. Have a 15 min spell after their goal, even if we do not score, I think you can maybe be more optimistic. However it was all Wigan from 60th minute til the end. 

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36 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

No more likes. You are right about the away days though! Think last away win I saw was Peterborough which wasn’t too bad. But cardiff and qpr before it were a bit like today ? I guess what I don’t get is why we can’t get the good spells back in a game. Our 20-30 min spells are all at once and if we don’t score 2-3 in that time it seems inevitable we’ll drop points. Have a 15 min spell after their goal, even if we do not score, I think you can maybe be more optimistic. However it was all Wigan from 60th minute til the end. 

When you break games down into spells and pose the questions you do…it’s very similar to the LJ reign.  We never / rarely sustained spells, we didn’t have multiple spells in many games.

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8 hours ago, Top Robin said:

I so want him to succeed because I know he has the pedigree and experience to make it happen for us.

But, I fear he may be one of those managers who has lost his 'mojo' and has peaked a few years back.

Arguably there may have been a slight improvement but it is so inconsistent and generally I don't feel he is moving us forward at the pace we need. 

Frankly, some of the performances under his tenure have been laughable.

I don't know who could replace him and it's not up to me suggest anyone but I don't think he is the one for us.

Kind of guy who doesn’t agree with loan players but signs Danny Simpson and Andy King on one year deal… I think back to the play off final season when our top scorer was Byfield with 8. Difference being we could defend! Feels a long time ago now defence is shockingly bad. 

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COVID wrecked the club's finances so NP is working on a restricted budget unlike previous managers. I have been impressed how he's given the young players chances to develop look at Conway and Scott now, that wouldn't have happened before. When I first watched City AD was manager and he had a torrid time early on, once the young players matured though we had our best team ever. At the end of the day a manager's only as good as the players he's got available and I think the squad's improving so give him a bit more time, he can't go out and spend millions to put things right quicker.

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7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

When you break games down into spells and pose the questions you do…it’s very similar to the LJ reign.  We never / rarely sustained spells, we didn’t have multiple spells in many games.

At their worst I think their reigns are very similar. LJ had better highs though but 1000% had better resources. 
 

I don’t really mind how we play. We just don’t feel as organised as we should to me. When we do press it doesn’t feel as if it is as a unit. When we sit deeper I get a sense our cms and wide cbs are not always sure where to be at times. Think playing a Martin is logical when he is at his best but for me he is playing too much. His performances drop significantly as the game wears on. 
 

I guess my point is, I don’t feel as if we are miles away from being a competitive side. A team that could ultimately finish 13-16th but probably never more than 7-10 points from playoffs through 40-42 games. Problem is think we have been quite close to that for awhile now but we still haven’t made the last little adjustments. So much to be optimistic about going into the season and despite a couple key injuries which do not help, can’t help but feel they’d just cover up a few of the cracks instead of completing us.

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7 hours ago, BITW said:

Kind of guy who doesn’t agree with loan players but signs Danny Simpson and Andy King on one year deal… I think back to the play off final season when our top scorer was Byfield with 8. Difference being we could defend! Feels a long time ago now defence is shockingly bad. 

I knew we would get back to Danny Simpson in the end.

He was a mistake, Pearson realised it, so brought in Tanner & let him go. According to some he was on an incredibly low salary. Andy King this year will have resigned on a very similar sum.

Under LJ we paid a million for Marley Watkins who was on £15k a week, he started 10 games for us in 3 years & left for free.

£600k for Hakeeb Adelakun, £9k a week, 5 starts in 3 seasons, left for free..

Million for Liam Walsh, 8 starts, left for free.

But “Danny Simpson”, eh?

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15 hours ago, Top Robin said:

I so want him to succeed because I know he has the pedigree and experience to make it happen for us.

But, I fear he may be one of those managers who has lost his 'mojo' and has peaked a few years back.

Arguably there may have been a slight improvement but it is so inconsistent and generally I don't feel he is moving us forward at the pace we need. 

Frankly, some of the performances under his tenure have been laughable.

I don't know who could replace him and it's not up to me suggest anyone but I don't think he is the one for us.

Top Robin I totally agree with you. Listening today NP is starting to repeat himself on various web sites. " I-am frustrated and disappointed with some of the official decisions and our inability to stay a head when we are winning"

The last two years we all think give him a chance. How many chances does he get ?. We finished 17th last season and with even taking on board the pre season friendlies it looks like no improvement on 17th again as what have we seen that is better.

NP  in his earlier years was a fair to great defender at Shrewsbury, Middlesborough and Sheffield Wednesday in his playing days. Later being successful with Leicester City but will it happen at BS3?? 

Time for NP to hang up his boots and hand back the keys to his car and office if we are all honest as it looks like we will struggle again this season. I feel sorry for all the fans that week in and week out turn up and leave disappointed where their expectations have diminished.

Not sure who can replace NP but something needs to happen or take place where some wins are on the board in the next few weeks.

Can any one on here honestly say we are in a better position now than in season 2019/20

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